Great match on strong 3.5 vs. low 4.0

[Deleted member 54265]

The funniest thing in this forum is when someone posts video of two guys playing that dont have technically good strokes and tell their official rating, and a whole brigade of butthurt people here start arguing against it and calling them much lower ratings because they cant accept that these players are equal or higher level than them, looool hilarious!

My 13yo son just asked: Dad why are you watching two guys who can't play tennis ? And I told him because I find it interesting, because..... eh because.... eh.... well I really don't know.......

 

[GeoffHYL]

I can't help thinking that Ian and Kevin are supposed to be good coaches (and are able to teach stroke mechanics) and still their students are playing with home made strokes. One hour of good coaching could take both players to another level.

IMO an hour of coaching isn't going to change strokes that are ingrained. The coaching might get you to start working on some things, but it will take lots of directed practice to break old habits and form new ones.

 

[mad dog1]

I can't help thinking that Ian and Kevin are supposed to be good coaches (and are able to teach stroke mechanics) and still their students are playing with home made strokes. One hour of good coaching could take both players to another level.

Yes, you are right. After a one hour coaching session will take them to another level; they will get worse.

IMO an hour of coaching isn't going to change strokes that are ingrained. The coaching might get you to start working on some things, but it will take lots of directed practice to break old habits and form new ones.

Exactly

 

[Shroud]

I had a look at the video again and the very first point of the match, the volley he makes is great. Gets down very nicely (better than many younger players than him might), clearly had the racquet face in the right position to have got it over the net off his shoelaces and directed it into the open court, keeping it deep too. There wasn't a thing wrong with that volley. At other times, yes, but for his level, his volley skills are above average and easily the best part of his game.

Sure its all relative but lots of volleys were floating and bouncing high. I am sure thats not exactly how volleys are supposed to work. Like I said props for getting up there. But man I would like a few minutes to fine tune things.

 

[ChaelAZ]

I'd love to see some of the commentors play one of these guys and post the video. Heck, would love to see them post their videos of anything. Not currated and cut, cheery picked shots, but a whole match. I mean, I take folks at face value when they talk about their level, but I respect anyone who is willing to post their play for others to see. There is a whole thread with good folks like that, from us lower ratings folks to a pro.

Post up bishez.

 

[mad dog1]

Sure its all relative but lots of volleys were floating and bouncing high. I am sure thats not exactly how volleys are supposed to work. Like I said props for getting up there. But man I would like a few minutes to fine tune things.

That’s how most volleys work at the 3.5 level. A lot of 3.5s don’t ever come into the net.

 

[Keendog]

I can't help thinking that Ian and Kevin are supposed to be good coaches (and are able to teach stroke mechanics) and still their students are playing with home made strokes. One hour of good coaching could take both players to another level.

Pretty sure these guys were just fans of the channel

 

[Shroud]

I'd love to see some of the commentors play one of these guys and post the video. Heck, would love to see them post their videos of anything. Not currated and cut, cheery picked shots, but a whole match. I mean, I take folks at face value when they talk about their level, but I respect anyone who is willing to post their play for others to see. There is a whole thread with good folks like that, from us lower ratings folks to a pro.

Post up bishez.

I posted a game. Sadly all my match play vids are me getting killed by 4.5s and 5.0s. But yeah I would like to play those guys. Not saying I would win but I like my odds if I am healthy and somewhat match tough. I can say for sure that those serves would be attacked ALOT by shroud...

 

[Shroud]

That’s how most volleys work at the 3.5 level. A lot of 3.5s don’t ever come into the net.

its why he got bumped...

 

[user92626]

I posted a game. Sadly all my match play vids are me getting killed by 4.5s and 5.0s. But yeah I would like to play those guys. Not saying I would win but I like my odds if I am healthy and somewhat match tough. I can say for sure that those serves would be attacked ALOT by shroud...

My beer money is on Shroud.

Ever since I saw his 360 degree serve, I've been haunted.

 

[ChaelAZ]

I posted a game. Sadly all my match play vids are me getting killed by 4.5s and 5.0s. But yeah I would like to play those guys. Not saying I would win but I like my odds if I am healthy and somewhat match tough. I can say for sure that those serves would be attacked ALOT by shroud...

Brah, there is no shame in the Shroud game. And I'd enjoy playing either of them too. But hell, I will play anyone, so not saying a lot.

 

[Shroud]

Brah, there is no shame in the Shroud game. And I'd enjoy playing either of them too. But hell, I will play anyone, so not saying a lot.

you would over power them easy. Like me if you were on it would be a win. But hopefully unlike me its not a big IF...and well you move better than I do. Best to get them in the AZ heat and make them wear a hoodie...

 

[Deleted member 54265]

Yes, you are right. After a one hour coaching session will take them to another level; they will get worse.

I understand that you never had good coaching, a top level coach can do a lot of good for you in an hour.

Here is an example:

Cheers, Toby

 

[Shroud]

My beer money is on Shroud.

Ever since I saw his 360 degree serve, I've been haunted.

Let me guess, you drink wine!

 

[mad dog1]

I understand that you never had good coaching, a top level coach can do a lot of good for you in an hour.

Here is an example:

Cheers, Toby

Actually you don’t know anything about me. Cheers.

 

[Deleted member 54265]

Actually you don’t know anything about me. Cheers.

You are absolutely right, and I was not trying to be an ass. I am sorry if my comment offended you in any way, not intended at all.

I am just trying to say that if you ever had great coaches from the top shelf, you would know how much an hour can change your strokes to the better, AND that you can put it to work straight away.

Cheers

 

[mad dog1]

You are absolutely right, and I was not trying to be an ass. I am sorry if my comment offended you in any way, not intended at all.

I am just trying to say that if you ever had great coaches from the top shelf, you would know how much an hour can change your strokes to the better, AND that you can put it to work straight away.

Cheers

Come on. You know what your intentions were. Don’t try to play it off now and feign like you didn’t mean it because you just repeated what you said earlier.

Once again, you know nothing about me.

 

[Deleted member 54265]

Come on. You know what your intentions were.

Exactly, but you don't know anything about my intentions.

I don't have a go at anyone here - Pease and love, and accept my apologies if you like.

Cheers.

 

[mad dog1]

Exactly, but you don't know anything about my intentions.

I don't have a go at anyone here - Pease and love, and accept my apologies if you like.

Cheers.

Merry Christmas to you.

 

[user92626]

Let me guess, you drink wine!

Of course. Beer is for peasants.

I'm counting on you to grow my beer money to wine money.

 

[E46luver]

I'd love to see some of the commentors play one of these guys and post the video. Heck, would love to see them post their videos of anything. Not currated and cut, cheery picked shots, but a whole match. I mean, I take folks at face value when they talk about their level, but I respect anyone who is willing to post their play for others to see. There is a whole thread with good folks like that, from us lower ratings folks to a pro.

Post up bishez.

like ian sez the ones who complain about rating are those who have never made video of themself anyone who has made video knows these are 4.0 just like rating facts and evidence has proved

 

[E46luver]

That’s how most volleys work at the 3.5 level. A lot of 3.5s don’t ever come into the net.

they are 4.0 in texas

 

[mad dog1]

they are 4.0 in texas

I didn’t dispute their usta ratings. I believe that one is a high 3.5 and the other is a low 4.0. They look pretty similar to the high 3.5-low 4.0s in SoCal which I now realize may be a weak region based on reading the posts from those who claim that 3.5s in their area are much stronger.

 

[Dan Huben]

I got the same impression. The exchanges between Kevin and John were more collaborative; the ones between Ian and Chris were more one-way. The level of engagement seemed to be lower.

Have you ever listened to Ian’s pod cast. Dude wraps exceptional points in babble. He could talk underwater. I’m generally impatient and I know I would be hitting the carriage return to auto fill the form.


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[Chadalina]

I'd love to see some of the commentors play one of these guys and post the video. Heck, would love to see them post their videos of anything. Not currated and cut, cheery picked shots, but a whole match. I mean, I take folks at face value when they talk about their level, but I respect anyone who is willing to post their play for others to see. There is a whole thread with good folks like that, from us lower ratings folks to a pro.

Post up bishez.

My replacement camera will be here on friday. No one will travel to my courts though, i only travel if i get paid.

 

[ChaelAZ]

My replacement camera will be here on friday. No one will travel to my courts though, i only travel if i get paid.

Where ya at, I will come see ya if In the US. Outside will take longer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jmnk]

I was rated a 3.5 player after 9 months of playing and played in a 3.5 NTRP league and finished number 8 out of 16 players. I had no formal instruction. Being a 3.5 player is not an achievement. IMO being at least a 4.5+ is something to strive for. At 52, (almost 30 years of playing)I am still improving with very limited formal instruction and at a strong 4.0-4.5 level. I work more on stroke production than playing tournaments these days.

I was rated a 3.5 player after 9 months of playing and played in a 3.5 NTRP league and finished number 8 out of 16 players. I had no formal instruction. Being a 3.5 player is not an achievement. IMO being at least a 4.5+ is something to strive for. At 52, (almost 30 years of playing)I am still improving with very limited formal instruction and at a strong 4.0-4.5 level. I work more on stroke production than playing tournaments these days.

What is 'a strong 4.0-4.5 level' ? You mean like ~3.90 or so dynamic NTRP?

 

[Chadalina]

Where ya at, I will come see ya if In the US. Outside will take longer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Like 3 miles south east from downtown in orlando. Its like between the airport and city, but no plane noise or riff raff

My club is .5 miles from my house, two stop signs.

 

[Born_to_slice]

I'd love to see some of the commentors play one of these guys and post the video. Heck, would love to see them post their videos of anything. Not currated and cut, cheery picked shots, but a whole match. I mean, I take folks at face value when they talk about their level, but I respect anyone who is willing to post their play for others to see. There is a whole thread with good folks like that, from us lower ratings folks to a pro.

Post up bishez.

Fair play but many points are cut out of this ET match. 2-4 points cut out of each service game.

 

[vex]

you still do not understand please watch delusion video

I don’t need to watch the delusion video. I can compare levels just fine. 3.5s in my area do all the same things these guys do but they hit patently superior groundstrokes. Even the slice guys hit better than this. And the vast majority have something beyond the entry level serves seen here

 

[mad dog1]

I don’t need to watch the delusion video. I can compare levels just fine. 3.5s in my area do all the same things these guys do but they hit patently superior groundstrokes. Even the slice guys hit better than this. And the vast majority have something beyond the entry level serves seen here

What area are you in?

 

[ChaelAZ]

Fair play but many points are cut out of this ET match. 2-4 points cut out of each service game.

I get that, but ET was focusing on the competition part of it, so some quick points and such wouldn't add anything to that. They didn't cut points to try and hide thier level or misrepresent things.

The break down to ratings commentary on their YT channel or here just always bring me back to why I think anyone who goes on about their own strokes and play being better could surely help everyone with a video of themselves o we can learn from it. But yeah, go through the commentary on the YT channel and go to the commentors home pages to see their videos. 99% of them have nothing

For many it is better type on a computer about how they are a visually amazing high level stroke players, than post a video and face the reality of it. I give full props to the ET players for doing the video and thought it was a very competitive, well matched level play.

 

[tlm]

I get that, but ET was focusing on the competition part of it, so some quick points and such wouldn't add anything to that. They didn't cut points to try and hide thier level or misrepresent things.

The break down to ratings commentary on their YT channel or here just always bring me back to why I think anyone who goes on about their own strokes and play being better could surely help everyone with a video of themselves o we can learn from it. But yeah, go through the commentary on the YT channel and go to the commentors home pages to see their videos. 99% of them have nothing

For many it is better type on a computer about how they are a visually amazing high level stroke players, than post a video and face the reality of it. I give full props to the ET players for doing the video and thought it was a very competitive, well matched level play.

Very true the biggest critics here will never show video of themselves. But they talk the biggest game and all are at least 5.0 players with beautiful strokes that they will never show. Lol

 

[mad dog1]

@ChaelAZ @tlm

you guys just need to understand the TT ratings and how they align with NTRP ratings.

TT 4.5 = NTRP 4.5+ (examples are Raonic, Fed, delpo, matosevic posted videos)
TT 3.5 = NTRP 4.5+ (examples are “3.5s in my area can rally against pace and spin all day long” or “3.5s I know can serve 100+ mph with consistency, pace and spin”
TT 3.0 = NTRP 3.5 to 5.0 (examples are @travlerajm, ET players in the video, all the players in @onehandbh video except matosevic)

 

[ChaelAZ]

@ChaelAZ @tlm

you guys just need to understand the TT ratings and how they align with NTRP ratings.

TT 4.5 = NTRP 4.5+ (examples are Raonic, Fed, delpo, matosevic posted videos)
TT 3.5 = NTRP 4.5+ (examples are “3.5s in my area can rally against pace and spin all day long” or “3.5s I know can serve 100+ mph with consistency, pace and spin”
TT 3.0 = NTRP 3.5 to 5.0 (examples are @travlerajm, ET players in the video, all the players in @onehandbh video except matosevic)

Do I get a bonus .5 increase because I can talk constantly and not miss much while volleying? @OnTheLine

 

[mad dog1]

Do I get a bonus .5 increase because I can talk constantly and not miss much while volleying? @OnTheLine

That’s completely up to the TT ratings police and I’ve heard they are pretty stingy. They may relent if you have beautiful strokes.

 

[Born_to_slice]

I get that, but ET was focusing on the competition part of it, so some quick points and such wouldn't add anything to that. They didn't cut points to try and hide thier level or misrepresent things.

The break down to ratings commentary on their YT channel or here just always bring me back to why I think anyone who goes on about their own strokes and play being better could surely help everyone with a video of themselves o we can learn from it. But yeah, go through the commentary on the YT channel and go to the commentors home pages to see their videos. 99% of them have nothing

For many it is better type on a computer about how they are a visually amazing high level stroke players, than post a video and face the reality of it. I give full props to the ET players for doing the video and thought it was a very competitive, well matched level play.

They certainly didn't cut out aces and return winners, come on. I haven't read through all of this thread, but it seems that most people criticizing their game were not saying that they themselves are better (certainly not how visually amazing their own strokes are) or that they would win against these guys, yet are treated like they did. It's like these two guys are above any critique because ET posted half of their match. On this forum people are criticizing pros all the time and I'm pretty sure none here have the credentials to back those critiques up, so why are these two 3.5 players above it? IMO, no one was more cruel towards these guys than ET owners, who put John(?) as a poster child for the reality of delusional player video thumbnail. IMO, YT comments they addressed in that video were not even that bad. I myself never write critique under YT videos but isn't it expected they'd get some? Much ado about nothing IMO.

 

[ChaelAZ]

They may relent if you have beautiful strokes.

And the church responded to Chael...

 

[mad dog1]

They certainly didn't cut out aces and return winners, come on. I haven't read through all of this thread, but it seems that most people criticizing their game were not saying that they themselves are better (certainly not how visually amazing their own strokes are) or that they would win against these guys, yet are treated like they did. It's like these two guys are above any critique because ET posted half of their match. On this forum people are criticizing pros all the time and I'm pretty sure none here have the credentials to back those critiques up, so why are these two 3.5 players above it? IMO, no one was more cruel towards these guys than ET owners, who put John(?) as a poster child for the reality of delusional player video thumbnail. IMO, YT comments they addressed in that video were not even that bad. I myself never write critique under YT videos but isn't it expected they'd get some? Much ado about nothing IMO.

Then perhaps you should go back and read the posts again.

 

[AlexSV]

They certainly didn't cut out aces and return winners, come on. I haven't read through all of this thread, but it seems that most people criticizing their game were not saying that they themselves are better (certainly not how visually amazing their own strokes are) or that they would win against these guys, yet are treated like they did. It's like these two guys are above any critique because ET posted half of their match. On this forum people are criticizing pros all the time and I'm pretty sure none here have the credentials to back those critiques up, so why are these two 3.5 players above it? IMO, no one was more cruel towards these guys than ET owners, who put John(?) as a poster child for the reality of delusional player video thumbnail. IMO, YT comments they addressed in that video were not even that bad. I myself never write critique under YT videos but isn't it expected they'd get some? Much ado about nothing IMO.

How come there's no discussion about the advice given during the match? The whole purpose was to coach the players through a competitive situation. But no one is looking at where the tactical advice could be improved.

 

[JoelDali]

How come there's no discussion about the advice given during the match? The whole purpose was to coach the players through a competitive situation. But no one is looking at where the tactical advice could be improved.

Bandanas. Both guys need a bandana.

Without a bandana they are mere amateurs who’s match offers zero redeeming value to Internet tennis enthusiasts.

 

[mad dog1]

Bandanas. Both guys need a bandana.

Without a bandana they are mere amateurs who’s match offers zero redeeming value to Internet tennis enthusiasts.

Also missing are the tank tops and Capri shorts!

 

[Born_to_slice]

Then perhaps you should go back and read the posts again.

Damn it was tedious, but I did and no one claimed they themselves would win or that they themselves have amazing beautiful strokes. Some guys said that in their region these guys would be weak 3.5. Megamind said he's 4.0 and that these guys look like 3.5 (which they are?) and Vex said that with their groundstroke technique, these guys have hit the ceiling (which I agree). Maybe you can link it if I've missed anything but even that would be exception and not represent what people were writing.

How come there's no discussion about the advice given during the match? The whole purpose was to coach the players through a competitive situation. But no one is looking at where the tactical advice could be improved.

It certainly helped them catch their breath. I thought it was kind of like "big brother" reality TV thing. I don't believe in on court coaching. Makes players mentally weak IMO.

 

[mad dog1]

@Born_to_slice

imo, not tryna meme just being serious, both players are weak 3.5s

Thier volleys and interior court games are good. Strokes are absolute garbage. Both have already hit thier ceilings. A good example of how you can get to 3.5/4.0 without a serve or ground strokes if you have other strengths.

Also, as others have said this is a good example of “regional ratings.” Where I’m from these would be low 3.5s, even high 3.0

Both these guys push the ball and wait for errors. Their serves are probably not more than 20 mph. Even a decent 4.0 player would knock the racquet out of those guys hands coming into the net are garbage approach shots. They are both 3.5 grinders and nothing more.

both have USTA ratings. one of them is a strong 3.5. the other is a low 4.0 who just got bumped from 3.5. the guys in the video earned their USTA 3.5 and 4.0 ratings. It's not like they were self rated claims. why does anyone need to diminish others' achievements which is exactly what the quoted posts are doing.

 

[jm1980]

What is 'a strong 4.0-4.5 level' ? You mean like ~3.90 or so dynamic NTRP?

It means a completely imaginary rating based on a (usually deluded) self-assessment of his game, instead of actual results from official competition

Guy goes on to elaborate that he is focused on working on "stroke production," which usually translates to "My shots look pretty when rallying." Based on my experience with these types, if you put him in an actual match against either of these guys he's bashing, what usually happens is, the pretty strokes will be nowhere to be found, he will lose in a flurry of unforced errors, but even after he loses he's still be convinced he's the better player.

 

[Powderwombat]

That coaching is cringe af. These guys barely able to hit a ball and Ian's in there with his pseudo nonsense "he's trying to do this so you need to do this", while the guy is glaring at him like he wants to choke him out. Meanwhile Kevin, while more tolerable, his guy looks like he's just gotten off the front lines of a battlefield every time there's a changeover, he looks shellshocked. Also why is there an umpire there for this farce?

 

[JoelDali]

People sure have way too much time on their hands to discuss 3.5 matches with such epic pashion.

I’ll say it again.

Get a damn bandana and then post your video.

Without a bandana this threat is a nothing burger.

 

[user92626]

People sure have way too much time on their hands to discuss 3.5 matches with such epic pashion.

I’ll say it again.

Get a damn bandana and then post your video.

Without a bandana this threat is a nothing burger.

And you just added more fuel to the fire. Good fuel too, mister troller.

 

[Born_to_slice]

both have USTA ratings. one of them is a strong 3.5. the other is a low 4.0 who just got bumped from 3.5. the guys in the video earned their USTA 3.5 and 4.0 ratings. It's not like they were self rated claims. why does anyone need to diminish others' achievements which is exactly what the quoted posts are doing.

Few guys slightly challenging their USTA ranking is far from claiming that they would destroy them or that they themselves have perfect beautiful strokes.
So they are wrong about their ranking, who cares? Maybe it makes sense to them locally. I'm really not that familiar with USTA ranking system, but it does seem a bit crude. That's like when Koreans are playing Starcraft strategy game against foreigners. They are all grandmasters but it's always Korea>Europe>North America.

 

[BetaServe]

If NTRP is determined by pretty strokes, @FiReFTW would bagel @J011yroger (it’s a compliment for both of you btw )