Groundstroke pointers

[djqsrv]

hello everyone

I have been away from the game and these forums for quite a wile. I am in my mid 40's and making sort of a comeback.
I played D1 college ball way back in the early 90's. I then played off and on after that but this last layoff has been close to 10 years with an all to short mini comeback somewhere around 5 years ago. I almost don't even count this as I pretty much just purchased some new equipment and hit a couple of times.
Today i recorded myself hitting off the wall and figured I would post it here and ask for some help.
Now Ill just say the first obvious observation. I need to loose some weight. I know if I drop some weight my footwork will improve immensely. I noticed right away that my shuffle steps and hops were very shallow and being lighter will help me get in position faster and easier. So beyond that are there any glaring shortcoming in my strokes? I am still driving the ball pretty well with a nice amount of spin. when I make good solid contact the ball trajectory feels like it was back in the day. The backhand is way more consistent right now and the forehand is the stroke that I am losing control over at times. I am feeling that this may all be down to the fitness and being in a good position. When I watch this I see someone who knows how to hit the ball well but needs to get the fitness back and all will work out. I am not seeing much wrong fundamentally but it is hard to be objective about yourself so let me know what you think.

Thanks
Daniel

 

[SinjinCooper]

Good looking hits, big man! You're dead on: the backhand looks rock solid. Very sweet stroke.

On the FH side, there are a couple things I might quibble with, but I'd be hesitant to, knowing that you're just back at it and need to shake off the rust and get your tennis wheels back under you. It looks to me like you may have started out with a flatter, more eastern FH before switching to the more extreme grip, maybe in HS or college? Specifically, your upper body rotation mechanics and your weight transfer look more classically trained -- maybe modeled after Sampras? The result is that you're mixing the mechanics on the two kinds of stroke, and that's probably pulling down your power, spin and consistency on that wing...a little bit.

But honestly, not all that much. I've seen lots of players who more than hold their own in Open division do the same thing. Doesn't mean it couldn't be tweaked for efficiency, of course, but doesn't need immediate attention. And I wouldn't go trying to change anything about it until you feel settled out there again, and get some reps against live action.

I'd give you a clean bill of groundstroke health, and put reps and fitness at the top of the To Do List.

In the meantime, you could probably show up at the local courts toting a six pack of Bud and a Grateful Dead shirt and hustle the high school players for their lunch money. If you do, please youtube it.

 

[Fintft]

I'd have to see the video from home, but I like it very much that both the OP and you make the bellow point:

I'd give you a clean bill of groundstroke health, and put reps and fitness at the top of the To Do List.

Holds true even for stupid me.

 

[WisconsinPlayer]

Your form looks great, like you said I'd just work on fitness and everything should fall into place!

 

[SinjinCooper]

I'd have to see the video from home, but I like it very much that both the OP and you make the bellow point:



Holds true even for stupid me.

The point is being able to point out why, and whether or not that explanation means one ought to prioritize something else ahead of the fixes one already knows one has to make.

Here, any tweaks I'd recommend to the groundies are mostly dependent on getting the rest fixed first. Order of operations is important.

 

[1HBH-DownTheLine]

i think on your 1 hander you could be opening too soon in my opinion. try focusing on staying more sideways on contact and let your off hand flow backwards keeping your body more sideways.

 

[Slicerman]

Looks pretty good for someone who hasn't played in a long time. Nothing much to add except maybe a bit more knee bend on the low forehand.

 

[Booger]

Your strokes are fine, but your fashion and equipment choices are NTRP 2.5 at best.

 

[djqsrv]

Thanks everyone for the thoughts. Knowing I'm about 80lbs over what I was when I played in college made it kind of intimidating to post here. Most of you were helpful and encouraging (booger your just a d**k. So I'm an admitted heavy guy who feels better in basketball shorts and an old t shirt right now. And how is a prestige mid 2.5 level? Like I said D**K!!!)
Everyone else thanks. Swinging the racquet again felt good. I would love to get back in shape to play open level or maybe just be able to slug it out with some college level players again. Felt like a good first step today.

Thanks
Daniel

 

[djqsrv]

Oh and also anyone in the wake forest/Raleigh area interested in groundstroke hitting sessions let me know.

 

[Fintft]

Nice strokes Daniel!

I would love to have a partner like you at my club, in your age group I mean.

 

[Avles]

Oh and also anyone in the wake forest/Raleigh area interested in groundstroke hitting sessions let me know.

I live in Apex, work in Raleigh. I'm just 3.5ish so your strokes are light-years ahead of mine, but I'd be happy to hit sometime if you'd like a punching bag to help you train. Sounds like you are on the other side of town from me, but I work near NCSU and have access to courts. Let me know if you're interested, no worries if not!

 

[xFullCourtTenniSx]

Left hand could offer more resistance on the backhand.

Knees could bend more. Would be easier with less weight on your frame.

You can either stick with what works for you or adopt a "man's" forehand. Doesn't really matter if you aren't planning to be one of the top 300-600 players in the world. Serena and Graf did just fine with the same forehand.

 

[djqsrv]

Good looking hits, big man! You're dead on: the backhand looks rock solid. Very sweet stroke.

On the FH side, there are a couple things I might quibble with, but I'd be hesitant to, knowing that you're just back at it and need to shake off the rust and get your tennis wheels back under you. It looks to me like you may have started out with a flatter, more eastern FH before switching to the more extreme grip, maybe in HS or college? Specifically, your upper body rotation mechanics and your weight transfer look more classically trained -- maybe modeled after Sampras? The result is that you're mixing the mechanics on the two kinds of stroke, and that's probably pulling down your power, spin and consistency on that wing...a little bit.

But honestly, not all that much. I've seen lots of players who more than hold their own in Open division do the same thing. Doesn't mean it couldn't be tweaked for efficiency, of course, but doesn't need immediate attention. And I wouldn't go trying to change anything about it until you feel settled out there again, and get some reps against live action.

I'd give you a clean bill of groundstroke health, and put reps and fitness at the top of the To Do List.

In the meantime, you could probably show up at the local courts toting a six pack of Bud and a Grateful Dead shirt and hustle the high school players for their lunch money. If you do, please youtube it.

I did use Sampras as a model for my strokes originaly. They looked quite a bit like his before college. During my college playing my grip moved more western as it matched up with the higher, harder kicking ball I was reviving from my opponents. Even though my grip is western I still drive more then spin the ball. Well back then most people would have said I put allot of topspin on the ball. By today's standards I'm a pretty flat hitter. I have always preferred that straight forward driving shot that dips down abruptly and kicks through not up. Again modeled after Sampras, Agassi etc. lots of forward drive. Always trying to push my opponent back. was never into the big high tragectory arcing topspin kind of shots.
Thanks for the feedback

 

[djqsrv]

Left hand could offer more resistance on the backhand.

Knees could bend more. Would be easier with less weight on your frame.

You can either stick with what works for you or adopt a "man's" forehand. Doesn't really matter if you aren't planning to be one of the top 300-600 players in the world. Serena and Graf did just fine with the same forehand.

Ok. I'll bite. "Mans forehand"?

 

[xFullCourtTenniSx]

Ok. I'll bite. "Mans forehand"?

ATP vs WTA technique. Differences are in degree of shoulder rotation, size of swing, and apparently the yet unexplained ability and inability to dominate their respective tours.

It honestly doesn't matter if you aren't looking to break into top 300 ATP.

 

[djqsrv]

ATP vs WTA technique. Differences are in degree of shoulder rotation, size of swing, and apparently the yet unexplained ability and inability to dominate their respective tours.

It honestly doesn't matter if you aren't looking to break into top 300 ATP.

Wow. I guess they shouldn't have let me play NCAA d1 Men's tennis what with a girls forehand and all.
I guess some people just love to drink the cool aid.
So I guess McEnroe, Conners, villas etc are all not men as their strokes don't look like what this group of pros are doing. What a joke.
I guess these must be women's forhands also?

 

[xFullCourtTenniSx]

Wow. I guess they shouldn't have let me play NCAA d1 Men's tennis what with a girls forehand and all.

I mean, it's not like D1 tennis is remotely the same as top 300 ATP.

 

[SinjinCooper]

Wow. I guess they shouldn't have let me play NCAA d1 Men's tennis what with a girls forehand and all.

Around these parts, the only thing that delineates the two is the degree of your takeback.

Don't sweat it. There will be plenty of people giving feedback based on nothing but that. Never mind that world #1's as recently as Safin were doing the same.

Your strokes, as I said, look good. The Sampras influence screamed aloud, for those who knew what to look for. But there ARE a couple things from the Sampras FH that don't 100% click with a SW or W forehand, but those are neither here nor there. They mostly have to do with how quickly and how well you can explode off your plant foot and through your upper body rotation. And THOSE things will integrate as you get back into playing shape.

Guys who haven't played at that level won't understand how (or why) that stuff is automatic. You will. But it can only come if -- and after -- you get down to playing weight.

For now, I'll just say that the mechanics of a high level SW forehand differ in a few important respects from those of a Sampras FH...even though both are excellent strokes. If you want specifics, I'll give them to you. But my professional advice as someone who recognizes the necessary steps is that you're better off sticking with what's ingrained until you're back in athletic shape to ingrain a new high level FH.

Whatever you decide, GL. Haven't seen too many come through here with that kind of obvious background etched into their movements.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

One thing I noticed: at 2:17, for example, it seems to me you could have stepped in to the FH with your left [front] foot rather than taking another step with your right [back] foot. By the time you end up contacting the ball, your back foot is already in front of your front foot and you've prematurely rotated. This will subtract power.

You obviously have the muscle memory from playing college ball; it just needs repetition and progression to manifest itself. As you lose weight and gain fitness, you simultaneously will be re-discovering those strokes. I suspect you will see rapid improvement as those factors start coming together.

Welcome back to the tennis world!

 

[Gyswandir]

Welcome back @djqsrv! Just one more thing I'd like to add, if you haven't been "active" lately, make sure to get some basic fitness, before going all out on the courts. Most importantly, exercises for quads and hamstrings (with the extra weight, it will protect your knees) and something for Tennis Elbow, especially if you will switch to a modern racquet!!

I came back after 23 years from playing high school tennis and had been virtually sedentary in the last 4 years. Was getting injured frequently coz I didn't do that. Actually having an injury right now that is keeping me off the courts. The body is just not the same after 40.

 

[djqsrv]

One thing I noticed: at 2:17, for example, it seems to me you could have stepped in to the FH with your left [front] foot rather than taking another step with your right [back] foot. By the time you end up contacting the ball, your back foot is already in front of your front foot and you've prematurely rotated. This will subtract power.

You obviously have the muscle memory from playing college ball; it just needs repetition and progression to manifest itself. As you lose weight and gain fitness, you simultaneously will be re-discovering those strokes. I suspect you will see rapid improvement as those factors start coming together.

Welcome back to the tennis world!

I picked up on the back foot final step also. It was something that would happen very rarely back in the day. Pretty much when it was the only way to get the racquet head to the ball. Something like hitting a groundie after my opponent hit a hard sharp volley and I had no time. I think this was creeping in a bit as I am not fast enough on my feet right now and hitting off the wall was cutting my prep time down also.
Thanks for the feedback.

And yes gyswandir. I am taking it slow, doing lots of warmup and not pushing it. I'm feeling allot more light soarness then I'm used to and I definitely don't want that to turn into injuries.

 

[TennisCJC]

without re-initiating the man vs woman (atp vs wta) war that broke out earlier, your forehand swing is a bit large. Racket head lays back and appears it would be visible sticking out behind you from opponents perspective. Watch a youtube of Kyrgios (below). Notice how his racket head is in front of his chest until the moment he rotates the chest forward and then his racket arm stretches out and the racket head lags behind his chest - if you drew a line through his shoulders the racket head would stay in front of that line until Nick rotates forward. At the end of your take back the racket head would stick out behind the line. In effect, your racket head is moving several more feet than the average atp pro as you take it back a a foot or so more and then you have to recover that distance when you start forward. More distance to cover is going to be more difficult to time and may account for why your say your BH is better than your FH. Your BH is a smaller and simpler stroke pattern.

You could work on this but as others have said. You game is pretty solid and just needs a little practice and fine tuning. Advantages to the shorter swing is it is faster to contact allowing you to handle pace better. You can also hold the swing a bit longer on short balls.

Nick closes the racket face a lot and also keeps the tip of the racket pointing forward toward the net until he starts his take back. You have some of those attributes and I wouldn't bother trying to change the way you prep to match Nick's but I think working on shortening that take back could pay dividends. My experience is the more compact swing generates the same amount of power once you get the rhythm and it is much easier against deep balls, balls with pace or balls that require you to adjust to spin.

If you go to youtube and google ATP vs WTA forehand, you get several videos explaining the differences. The one below has a pretty girl in black tights so it has a 2nd motive to watch it.

But, this is a better 27 minute analysis of the forehand but no pretty girl in tights.

Not all female pros hit "wta style". Justine Henin and Svetlana Kuznetsova hit ATP style FH. Kuznetsova is an ideal model in my opinion and she hits a heavy FH with a lot of spin and pace. She works the spin a lot more than most female pros.

But, your stroke patterns are basically solid. Stick with it and have fun.

 

[NuBas]

Initial impression was this guy has pretty good mechanics (wasn't expecting) then read you used to play so it makes sense. I think you use your shoulder, unit turn very nicely.

 

[djqsrv]

without re-initiating the man vs woman (atp vs wta) war that broke out earlier, your forehand swing is a bit large. Racket head lays back and appears it would be visible sticking out behind you from opponents perspective. Watch a youtube of Kyrgios (below). Notice how his racket head is in front of his chest until the moment he rotates the chest forward and then his racket arm stretches out and the racket head lags behind his chest - if you drew a line through his shoulders the racket head would stay in front of that line until Nick rotates forward. At the end of your take back the racket head would stick out behind the line. In effect, your racket head is moving several more feet than the average atp pro as you take it back a a foot or so more and then you have to recover that distance when you start forward. More distance to cover is going to be more difficult to time and may account for why your say your BH is better than your FH. Your BH is a smaller and simpler stroke pattern.

You could work on this but as others have said. You game is pretty solid and just needs a little practice and fine tuning. Advantages to the shorter swing is it is faster to contact allowing you to handle pace better. You can also hold the swing a bit longer on short balls.

Nick closes the racket face a lot and also keeps the tip of the racket pointing forward toward the net until he starts his take back. You have some of those attributes and I wouldn't bother trying to change the way you prep to match Nick's but I think working on shortening that take back could pay dividends. My experience is the more compact swing generates the same amount of power once you get the rhythm and it is much easier against deep balls, balls with pace or balls that require you to adjust to spin.

If you go to youtube and google ATP vs WTA forehand, you get several videos explaining the differences. The one below has a pretty girl in black tights so it has a 2nd motive to watch it.

But, this is a better 27 minute analysis of the forehand but no pretty girl in tights.

Not all female pros hit "wta style". Justine Henin and Svetlana Kuznetsova hit ATP style FH. Kuznetsova is an ideal model in my opinion and she hits a heavy FH with a lot of spin and pace. She works the spin a lot more than most female pros.

But, your stroke patterns are basically solid. Stick with it and have fun.

I have seen these videos. The comment that set me of was if I wanted to adopt a mans forehand. Fullcourttennis just needed to get a jab in there for what reason I don't know same for the fashion sense guy. I asked for some help and I got a bunch of nice people on here giving me some good advise. I guess there has to be a-holes in every group.

Anyway as for the atp vs wta forehand. It sure looks like the shortening of the takeback that has been slowly creeping into the game sense the move from wood. As people hit harder you have less time. I guess men hit harder then women so it's progressed quicker on that tour. i remember watching Agassi in the late 80's early 90's and he had this great big huge backswing. As the rest of the tour started hitting as hard as he did his backswing got much more compact.
The extreme racquet head forward takeback that I see allot the new guys doing is interesting. That "flipping" back around as the forward part of the swing starts. You would think that would be a timing nightmare.

But all that aside I don't think I want to reinvent my strokes. I'm 45. I'm not going to be competing on the tour. I just didn't want to be drilling any bad habits into muscle memory. That's what the post was all abt for me.
The fitness is HUGE. And it's something I am working on. I hit with a higher level player today and it was ugly at times. And that was simply because I was not in good position. When I was in good position things were pretty good.

 

[nothinButTennis]

On FH, Preparation looks good. 2 Things 1) Try to contact the ball bit early 2) Hit the ball when it around hip don't let it drop very low