Honza
Semi-Pro
Depending on the string pattern. There are 98s you need 1.3 and 100s you hardly break 1.23.
Head Lynx Tour - Official Thread
- Thread starter Jouke
- Start date
Depending on the string pattern. There are 98s you need 1.3 and 100s you hardly break 1.23.
That doesn't exist. Longest lasting with "same" playability would be Rev. S7T, Confidential and 4G hold tension best, but they aren't very elastic to begin with, so they quickly play fairly dead
Of course, I should've written stiffer 100 16x19, an 18x20 Speed Pro or Gravity Pro doesn't apply here
And I wasn't thinking of breaking, but how the string actually plays. Most 1.25 are too erratic in a 100 16x19, so 1.30 gives linearity to the string bed, it just hits much better, easier to hit clean, to hit through. With an erratic 1.25 loose string bed you're forced to spin to control, then your technique goes to sh** very quickly, and your balls lose speed to unnecessary spin, plus some balls fall short and some fly way too high etc because you're not hitting clean and through
Unfortunately many younger and intermediate players think that's how you're supposed to hit the ball
In a power racquet but 98 16x19 1.30 is also much better, Aero VS, Aero 98, Shift 300 etc, even Blade 98 v8 16x19 plays better with 1.30 Alu or Element vs 1.25
Just don't choose a poly with near zero power and elasticity
Honza
Semi-Pro
Lets see. I am 150 minutes in on the MSVs and they still play the same. The bite on LT was gone after an hour.
Bite isn't the only, or the most important, element of string playability. Elasticity and snap back are way more important. Otherwise any stiff poly with sharp edges would be the best string in the world
For me, I don't play with sharp strings at all, bite isn't particularly important, but there are top players who play spinny higher trajectory games who would perhaps disagree
Nishioka plays the highest trajectory spinny game on tour, with gut in mains and PTP in crosses. Zero edges, but tons of elastic snap back. Same for all other players with gut in mains, Federer, Djokovic, Cilic etc, nothing wrong with their rpms
String manufacturers intentionally keep the launch angle low, so RPM Blast, LT, Rev etc don't have sharp edges and "bite", so that players can hit through and get the dip they need, instead of ball flying high and losing forward speed
Sinner is the best example, very open string pattern, torsionally stiff frame, Hawk Touch 1.30 at 28kg, and lots of dip on every shot. Bite? I don't think so. Just slippery tight fresh string with a lot of elastic snap back
Very few players play with sharp edged strings, I can't think of any really
For me, I don't play with sharp strings at all, bite isn't particularly important, but there are top players who play spinny higher trajectory games who would perhaps disagree
Nishioka plays the highest trajectory spinny game on tour, with gut in mains and PTP in crosses. Zero edges, but tons of elastic snap back. Same for all other players with gut in mains, Federer, Djokovic, Cilic etc, nothing wrong with their rpms
String manufacturers intentionally keep the launch angle low, so RPM Blast, LT, Rev etc don't have sharp edges and "bite", so that players can hit through and get the dip they need, instead of ball flying high and losing forward speed
Sinner is the best example, very open string pattern, torsionally stiff frame, Hawk Touch 1.30 at 28kg, and lots of dip on every shot. Bite? I don't think so. Just slippery tight fresh string with a lot of elastic snap back
Very few players play with sharp edged strings, I can't think of any really
Honza
Semi-Pro
Sinner plays among the flattest shots on tour. Not a lot of bite.
And yes current pros have fast swings and generate spin that way but i am 41 and have nothing against a little help. Also they play an hour with a set but i want 3-5 hours, since 1 hour would be too expensive.
I feel safer with less elasticity and more bite and im definitely not buying LT for elasticity.
For me LT turns mushy and loses bite after a too short period.
OK, but sharp edged strings clearly provide waay more bite than non-sharp edged strings. They are made exactly for that. So to conclude that a non-edged string doesn't have bite compared to a sharp one doesn't make much sense to me. LT is roundish exactly so that the ball trajectory is lowest possible but with max snap back and spin
Maybe you're mixing up launch angle and rpms, they are not the same thing. Trajectory kept as low as possible, with rotations as high as possible, that's the goal of manufacturers, not some high uncontrollable trajectory
Sharp edged strings become round-ish in the middle of the string bed after an hour or so, but they remain sharp outside of the sweet spot. So after an hour, if you hit in the middle you get one kind of string bed response, but if you hit outside the centre, you get a completely different trajectory, and a lot of bite
Primary characteristic of LT is that it's ultra slick. You'll easily feel and even hear the characteristic "plop" even if you string it ultra tight, at 29kg, because the string bed just won't lock, mains will keep sliding on crosses without issue. It's the only string which breaks - for me - on the crosses, they become so thin because of mains sliding over them repeatedly, so they break. Which is also why LT is great in a hybrid, with Hawk for example
I don't really see how can LT lose bite as you say, because it never had much bite to begin with, it's a round-ish slippery string. If you want to keep its initial response for longer I suggest you string it tighter, but I mean really tight, depending on your racquet of course
And Sinner definitely doesn't play among the flattest, not even close. Look at Bautista Agut, De Minaur, Medvedev etc. Sinner's shots have plenty of dip, serves have a lot of kick. He does drive through the ball with plenty of cover, I'm not saying he's playing some high spinny game like Nishioka or similar, but his is definitely not a flat game
Maybe you're mixing up launch angle and rpms, they are not the same thing. Trajectory kept as low as possible, with rotations as high as possible, that's the goal of manufacturers, not some high uncontrollable trajectory
Sharp edged strings become round-ish in the middle of the string bed after an hour or so, but they remain sharp outside of the sweet spot. So after an hour, if you hit in the middle you get one kind of string bed response, but if you hit outside the centre, you get a completely different trajectory, and a lot of bite
Primary characteristic of LT is that it's ultra slick. You'll easily feel and even hear the characteristic "plop" even if you string it ultra tight, at 29kg, because the string bed just won't lock, mains will keep sliding on crosses without issue. It's the only string which breaks - for me - on the crosses, they become so thin because of mains sliding over them repeatedly, so they break. Which is also why LT is great in a hybrid, with Hawk for example
I don't really see how can LT lose bite as you say, because it never had much bite to begin with, it's a round-ish slippery string. If you want to keep its initial response for longer I suggest you string it tighter, but I mean really tight, depending on your racquet of course
And Sinner definitely doesn't play among the flattest, not even close. Look at Bautista Agut, De Minaur, Medvedev etc. Sinner's shots have plenty of dip, serves have a lot of kick. He does drive through the ball with plenty of cover, I'm not saying he's playing some high spinny game like Nishioka or similar, but his is definitely not a flat game
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Honza
Semi-Pro
First of all, good post. I understand that we have a different view on LT.
LT is 6 sided, not round. Btw RPM Blast is 8 sided.
Launch angle and rpms are different stats , but go hand in hand. Ask Rafa.
Not all sharp edged strings lose edges as fast as LT. Some of them keep them more or less until they break. I agree on the argument about the sweet spot. Thats something i hate about LT.
I also agree on the sliding part. It loses its edges (after an hour), and turns mushy (or maybe more lively or more elastic). At a certain point (2-3 hours in) it is so elastic, its impossible to break and then strings stop to slide back in position (this happens at around 4-5 hours).
I respectfully disagree launch angle and rpms are going hand in hand. You can have insane rpms but launch angle is still not too high.
Look at this chart:
Apparently, Matteo has the second most RPMs but his ball's trajectory is not high or loopy. And talking about Sinner, this chart shows he hit more RPMs than Fritz and Ben Shelton. Nobody on tour hits completely flat, most people who are misled by YouTube videos think topspin = more arc-ed balls. But in reality, the most valuable topspin is to make the ball bounce slightly sideways and skid through the court.
Back to LT, I think it's an advanced string, it requires the player to have high RPMs and hit very hard to make this string shine. Rublev switched to it, according to the chart, he does hit more RPMs than Sinner. I really liked the LT before, but I realized that this string is above my level, I can't reach the potential of this string. I also think the 'bite' comes from the pocketing, not really from the shape of the string. But I get why shaped strings are very popular among recreational players, because the shape helps to 'grab' the ball, but the 'grab' is not equal to the 'bite'.
Honza
Semi-Pro
The chart tells exactly the same story. Look at Ruud, Alissieme, Nishioka.... Fritz looks also like a flat hitter, when you watch him.
And if i had to play only an hour with LT, i would play it as well. Players that dont want to invest in a stringer and material every hour need something, that keeps characteristics for a little longer. I thing playing with a string between 3 and 5 times until it breaks is the sweetspot for me.
Edit: Isner has more spin on fh than Sinner
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How about Matteo lol? More RPMS than FAA and Nishioka, but not loopy balls.
The point of the chart was Sinner, Fritz they all hit around 2,800 RPMS forehand, the ball trajectory looks low, but they don't hit flat(I don't think 2,800 RPMS forehand is flat by any means). Hence, RPMS and launch angle are not correlated.
I agree that strings are very personal, suits yourself is the best. Every time I tried a string after watching a string review, I always felt different than the review said. So I get that LT didn't work for you. Now I mostly play with Toroline strings, I like them better for my level.
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ClownCar96
Semi-Pro
Played LT 1.2 grey today for the first time. 3 hour hit. Great string. I’m a fan. Great pocketing feel and consistent response which helped me feel confident on the court. I was able to achieve all the spin I wanted on my shots. Slice and drop shots were on point as well. 1.2 was much more comfortable on my arm compared to 1.25 (which is really closer to 1.3)
Would love to get my hands on some champagne color in 1.2 … if anyone in U.S. has a source, please let me know!
Would love to get my hands on some champagne color in 1.2 … if anyone in U.S. has a source, please let me know!
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ClownCar96
Semi-Pro
ClownCar96
Semi-Pro
I think you're on to something here @Mischko but what would you say about comfort? I've been able to play stiffer, more control oriented polys but in smaller gauges and looser tension in general without any arm discomfort. The tradeoff however, as you say, I'm forced to spin the ball and not hit through the court as much as I'd like to. I recently tried Lynx Tour 1.25 and the control was incredible... I found myself hitting through the ball more and I was more confident with my swings. I'm thinking it was not only from the string but from the size being closer to 1.3. The problem is that it caused significant arm and shoulder pain later that day and the next. I had it strung at @52 in EZ98. Maybe I'll try it down lower, like 45-48ish to find more comfort? I'm just worried I won't be able to control the power and will revert back to spinning everything. Thanks for your comment... it's caused me to rethink my strategy as I've been playing a lot of 1.2 and 1.25 strings. If you have any string recommendations for my situation, I'm all ears.
LT is a lower powered control string, I don't think it's particularly stiff but not all strings fit well into all racquets. I never had any issues with LT
Ezone 98 is made with a tighter string pattern, and low as possible launch angle, I'd never put 1.30 into it
Recommendations for softer strings aren't my specialty, but Element is a bestseller, and in Yonex camp PTP also. Or perhaps try Strike black/PTP yellow in 1.25 like Shelton
Ezone 98 is made with a tighter string pattern, and low as possible launch angle, I'd never put 1.30 into it
Recommendations for softer strings aren't my specialty, but Element is a bestseller, and in Yonex camp PTP also. Or perhaps try Strike black/PTP yellow in 1.25 like Shelton
Honza
Semi-Pro
Tested 3 different strings lately.
Left is Tru Pro Black Knight 1.23, middle LT 1.20 and right MSV Focus Hex 1.23. So far the LT is the worst (played it for 2 months), Black Knight second (played only 30 mins today) and Focus Hex the best (played it for 3 hours so far).
The difference between Black Knight and MSV is very small. Black Knight seems to be a bit firmer and MSV a bit crispier.
Tbh i have to play a little bit more with Black Knight and Focus Hex but would recommend both over LT so far.
All rackets at 23kg.
ClownCar96
Semi-Pro
Lynx Tour = Confidential but with a plush, pocketing feel
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smithie
Semi-Pro
My experience is different to this (and these are two of my favourite strings). Confidential is incredibly linear and consistent in its response, much more so than lynx tour. With confidential I can paint the lines, but with lynx tour I have to play with a greater margin of error as the level of control is less and power more.Lynx Tour = Confidential but with a plush, pocketing feel
ClownCar96
Semi-Pro
Do you use confidential in Yonex frames? It’s so muted in the muted frame I ended up switching to tour bite
smithie
Semi-Pro
Not yet, I'm using PTP (which Ive never enjoyed previously) and also trailing PTS. I’ve only used confidential in my Speed Pros and was my go to for all of last season.
H22 fan
Semi-Pro
You can find LR 1.2 champagne on on tennis-zone.eu
ClownCar96
Semi-Pro
I got so excited only to find they don't ship to the U.S.
Thank you though!sure, but I dont think they ship outside the netherlands and belgium either: https://www.kctennis.nl/tennissnare...0gWYMkRoCKOMQAvD_BwE#/13183-snaar_dikte-130mm
Honza
Semi-Pro
There is a shop here in Austria, that ships into EU:
2 left
he (@ClownCar96) needs it for US
ClownCar96
Semi-Pro
Thanks guys, appreciate the help. I emailed the shops to see if I can talk anyone into shipping to the U.S. Maybe they will be in the Christmas spirit!
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ClownCar96
Semi-Pro
Very cool! Didn't know such a thing existed! Thanks my friend
I HATE bk in my 22 ezone also...1.20mm with slick round cross 1 20mm at 45/42. Is best for me
Tested 3 different strings lately.
Left is Tru Pro Black Knight 1.23, middle LT 1.20 and right MSV Focus Hex 1.23. So far the LT is the worst (played it for 2 months), Black Knight second (played only 30 mins today) and Focus Hex the best (played it for 3 hours so far).
The difference between Black Knight and MSV is very small. Black Knight seems to be a bit firmer and MSV a bit crispier.
Tbh i have to play a little bit more with Black Knight and Focus Hex but would recommend both over LT so far.
All rackets at 23kg.
WYK
Hall of Fame
Tested 3 different strings lately.
Left is Tru Pro Black Knight 1.23, middle LT 1.20 and right MSV Focus Hex 1.23. So far the LT is the worst (played it for 2 months), Black Knight second (played only 30 mins today) and Focus Hex the best (played it for 3 hours so far).
The difference between Black Knight and MSV is very small. Black Knight seems to be a bit firmer and MSV a bit crispier.
Tbh i have to play a little bit more with Black Knight and Focus Hex but would recommend both over LT so far.
All rackets at 23kg.
Focus Hex 123 feels more stiff and less lively than LT 120, at least at break in before LT settles some. MSV 123 definitely is very grabby.
MSV 123 also seems to be a bit more slick than LT. If I want more spin, I cross LT with something like ALU or RPM rough to allow more movement.
ClownCar96
Semi-Pro
Played again with Lynx Tour. First hour was with LT 1.25 champagne crossed with PTP 50/48. Had some arm discomfort with 1.25 previously so crossed with PTP. Played horribly, very muted setup, no feedback to dial in shots. Second hour I played with LT 1.2 grey full bed 50/48. Couldn’t miss and dominated my opponent. Much better feedback and control. This was my 6th hour of play on this 1.2 grey racquet and tension had only dropped 2lbs, I have not noticed a difference in spin. I ordered a reel of 1.2 grey from Amazon Germany. My new #1 string!
ClownCar96
Semi-Pro
I measured LT 1.25 and 1.2 with my digital gauge and it's actually true to size. Must just feel bigger due to being more dense and heavy?
Tom Goehring
Rookie
Going to give VS Gut 17 Lynx Tour another shot in my Wilson Ultra Tour 18x20 after talking to Mark Boone. His feeling was in a tight pattern, and the UT is seriously tight, the smoother edges of the LT work well as a cross to gut. I might try Grapple snake M8 against it in the same set up. I have a constant pull so I string it 43 Gut - 40 LT. My ERT 300 measured it 51lbs off stringer and unlike other strings it's held to only a 1 Pound drop after 24 hrs. I'll check back in after a hit both for an extended run.
ClownCar96
Semi-Pro
With such a tight pattern on the UT, you might consider going to an even smaller string. I have mine strung with 1.15 tour bite recommended by @gold325. Works very well!
Tom Goehring
Rookie
Not a bad idea ClownCar. Love Tour Bite but find it stiff above 17ga. Tried Alu Power in the 18ga (1.15) and liked it a lot. I'll give TB 1.15 a shot.
Try TB Soft. It's real niiiiice.
ouch_my_shoulder
New User
Strung up Lynx Tour 1.25 in my Percept 100 for the third time now. First two times were with grey, this time with orange. Just wanted to say that I don’t really feel any difference between the colors so far. The one thing that has been consistent with all three string jobs is that for the first session (1-2 hours), I hate it. Control is all over the place, spin is inconsistent. On the second session, everything settles down and it’s perfect. Stays that way for about 12 more hours then starts to feel harsher on mis-hits.
So far I haven’t found anything else that stays in the sweet spot for this long. Just gotta break it in.
So far I haven’t found anything else that stays in the sweet spot for this long. Just gotta break it in.
WYK
Hall of Fame
The spin many get comes mainly from the string movement more than the edges.
Having said it, I do think Focus Hex 123 is rather grabby as a string goes. But, I prefer the combo of Lynx Tour and RPM Rough for the control and feel.
I tried 123 hex with rpm rough and alu rough as a cross and it just doesn't work as well as LT 125 does for me.
WYK
Hall of Fame
I think the grey and the orange are as close as they get. The Ecru seems stiffer to me. The Black seems deader to me.
Now, I don't mean they feel like different strings altogether. Just a hint in either direction.
As an aside, Dennis Fabian of HEAD stated that the string colour can change as much as 3-5% of the over all chemical composition. Which seems like a lot, but let's believe him for now:
In metals, many other polymers, chemicals, etc - changing the composition as much as .1-1% can change it's properties and force it to be categorized differently.
I am not saying strings are metals, but 5% different formulation in the world of materials is a huge amount in general.
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ouch_my_shoulder
New User
Sure, I guess you would be referring to this interview:
It's 3-5%, just to nitpick numbers. Which is definitely a significant percentage, I'm not pretending it's nothing. But, as someone who has designed and tested lots of plastic products (including polyesters), I can say that colorant changes rarely have a significant effect on mechanical properties. Of course there are some special outliers, and we still test all the different colors that we plan to use, but it's mostly for cosmetic purposes (to ensure the color lasts with environmental exposure).
In the same interview, he basically confirms that from a laboratory/testing perspective, they don't see any significant difference in string colors. He also says peoples' subjective experiences can vary, because it's impossible to do a "blind" test. If you think a bright string will be more powerful, you're likely to have some confirmation bias when you play with a bright string; you'll think of the powerful shots you hit and say "yep it was that bright color."
Personally, I tend to think that differences in the string job will have a way bigger impact than color will. Based on comments earlier in this thread, I was expecting a different feel from the orange. I was (pleasantly) surprised to find it played pretty much the same as grey. Of course this is a sample size of 1.
It's 3-5%, just to nitpick numbers. Which is definitely a significant percentage, I'm not pretending it's nothing. But, as someone who has designed and tested lots of plastic products (including polyesters), I can say that colorant changes rarely have a significant effect on mechanical properties. Of course there are some special outliers, and we still test all the different colors that we plan to use, but it's mostly for cosmetic purposes (to ensure the color lasts with environmental exposure).
In the same interview, he basically confirms that from a laboratory/testing perspective, they don't see any significant difference in string colors. He also says peoples' subjective experiences can vary, because it's impossible to do a "blind" test. If you think a bright string will be more powerful, you're likely to have some confirmation bias when you play with a bright string; you'll think of the powerful shots you hit and say "yep it was that bright color."
Personally, I tend to think that differences in the string job will have a way bigger impact than color will. Based on comments earlier in this thread, I was expecting a different feel from the orange. I was (pleasantly) surprised to find it played pretty much the same as grey. Of course this is a sample size of 1.
WYK
Hall of Fame
Excellent. I couldn't find the interview. I'll change my post then.
Still, 3-5% is significant. However, I don't think he's being terribly scientific, either. He seems to just be going by memory and speculation. He isn't referring to a chart etc.
But, by the same token, Orange is way different appearing than Grey. There is definitely a very large difference in colouring there, and we both feel they act similarly.
I string my own racquets(and for a club of over 800 members as well). I have a lot of experience with a great many strings, especially LT as I have been using it since it came out.
Still, I think stuff like temperature and string jobs can definitely colour someone's opinion on a string. I mean, I just went from 23kg to 20.5kg in a weeks time here due to weather changes, and it feels very similar on court. We went from 13* to 5*. If I did that on two different 20* days, I think I would notice much more of a difference.
When I installed the 125 Grey into one of my racquets after I had been using black last summer, I was surprised at the increase in power. I felt I had a bit less control, too.
Shrug. Coulda just been how I strung em...
Another few things I personally have noticed: MSV in all colours seems to feel the same to me. Black revolve seems stiff and less lively than white. But can I prove these? Nah.
Since I do string racquets, one of the first things I notice is how wirery and stiff the string is when I remove it from the packet or the reel, as well. And how it feels when I crank it to tension. One of the reasons I prefer a crank is I have a lot of feedback with it. Perhaps this affects how I feel about the string as well.
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WYK
Hall of Fame
I'm sorry, I thought it was made rather clear in the video. It was meant mainly in response to @ouch_my_shoulder
We all have our prejudices and biases. Even people who have been in the industry a long while and some may consider more expert have obvious biases.
But, then again, how do you scientifically define such things as 'feel' etc.
And even when people such as Dennis Fabian claim there is no difference in the laboratory, they still do not provide the scientific evidence...
Even the TWU site does not have different tests based upon colour. I know they have limited time, so I may be just stating the obvious is all.
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smithie
Semi-Pro
WYK
Hall of Fame
Now that is interesting...
Do they have a page indicating how their testing is carried out?
However, you can see how even if this chart were accurate, that there would be some folks who wouldn't notice any difference.
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WYK
Hall of Fame
I tracked them down to the Game Insight Group, but they don't have much available on line far as I can see...
www.vu.edu.au
Game Insight Group
The Game Insight Group (GIG) is a joint venture between Tennis Australia and Victoria University that aims to make tennis the most digitally advanced sport on the planet.
www.vu.edu.au
WYK
Hall of Fame
So, previously I mentioned how stringing racquets can also affect your perception of the strings.
I just cut out a set of Lynx Tour Black and a set of Lynx Tour Orange from a couple of racquets.
And, regardless of how they play, one was much more stiff and harder to cut than the other.
Black acted like a typical black stiff poly. Like cutting plastic wire. Meanwhile my clippers went through the Orange like butter.
Well, OK, it cuts through both like butter since it's a professional Knipex(95 05 185) tool made for plastics, but you know what I mean.
The Orange felt soft by comparison. It also feels more soft when I string it, too. Slightly more elastic.
Both racquets strung by me, and though I do not own one of them, I have hit with both of them.
Still, one is a Radical, the other an o3 prince, so we can't really compare the feel or effect too critically.
The closest thing I own to this Radical MP is an Extreme Tour.
I just cut out a set of Lynx Tour Black and a set of Lynx Tour Orange from a couple of racquets.
And, regardless of how they play, one was much more stiff and harder to cut than the other.
Black acted like a typical black stiff poly. Like cutting plastic wire. Meanwhile my clippers went through the Orange like butter.
Well, OK, it cuts through both like butter since it's a professional Knipex(95 05 185) tool made for plastics, but you know what I mean.
The Orange felt soft by comparison. It also feels more soft when I string it, too. Slightly more elastic.
Both racquets strung by me, and though I do not own one of them, I have hit with both of them.
Still, one is a Radical, the other an o3 prince, so we can't really compare the feel or effect too critically.
The closest thing I own to this Radical MP is an Extreme Tour.
