Help Me with the WW Forehand and Eastern grip

[ski racer]

I have a Eastern Grip and have recently been attempting to switch from a classic FH to a WW forehand but cant get the hang of the swing. I can do it easily while shadow stroking or using the FYB progression vid where you hold the racquet at the end of the grip and do mini swings. However, whenever I go back to full hitting I start extending across again and it turns into a combination. I have been trying to add more wrist rotation and pronating but I still cant seem to get it down. If anyone has any tips and cant tell me what it is I have to do differently with a eastern grip to get the follow through and stop getting into this position shown in this picture that would be awesome!
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/...clijsters-running-forehand-aus-open2011-s.jpg

 

[skiracer55]

I'm a little lost here...

I have a Eastern Grip and have recently been attempting to switch from a classic FH to a WW forehand but cant get the hang of the swing. I can do it easily while shadow stroking or using the FYB progression vid where you hold the racquet at the end of the grip and do mini swings. However, whenever I go back to full hitting I start extending across again and it turns into a combination. I have been trying to add more wrist rotation and pronating but I still cant seem to get it down. If anyone has any tips and cant tell me what it is I have to do differently with a eastern grip to get the follow through and stop getting into this position shown in this picture that would be awesome!
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/...clijsters-running-forehand-aus-open2011-s.jpg

...so let's just back up a few. First of all, I don't see anything wrong with the Clijsters photo that you pointed to. It may not be WW, but what she's doing is good stuff, IMHO. Related to that...why did you decide that WW is the only way to go? I'm sure I'll get some argument on this, but there isn't a single "modern forehand", there's really three fairly distinct variations, each of which has its pluses and minuses:

- The "reverse forehand", which is what Nadal hits. The racket face makes a circle, but stays on the hitting side of the body. Advantage is that you get tons of topspin, disadvantages are that the contact zone with the ball is very small (lots of shanks are possible), there's so much top that sometimes the ball falls short, and, to me, it's biomechanically the most difficult way to hit the forehand.

- The WW forehand, where you hit through the ball and then the hitting face stays open and makes and arc in front of the body, like a windshield wiper. Not a bad approach, because it imparts a fair amount of top, but still has a fairly long contact point with the ball, so you can hit with power, depth, and topspin. Only disadvantage is that it's maybe not the most natural finish to the shot biomechanically...you've started the stroke by going out toward the opposite court, now you have to change the swing path into a WW finish.

- The Federer forehand, where you continue the foreward path of the racket head, it goes all the way out to the end of the travel (max extension of your arm), then the racket head naturally swings through and finishes on the opposite side of the body. You can hit with power, spin, placement, and variety, and I think it's the most biomechanically sound stroke.

Nothing wrong with hitting a WW forehand, and there's also nothing wrong with hitting some WWs and some Federer forehands...and even hitting a "squash shot" forehand when you're stuck and the ball gets behind you. But that kind of variety means you have to be comfortable changing your swing path, as needed...and probably your grip, too.

Any shot can be done with just about any grip, but there are grips for each variation that make the swing path and biomechanics easier. For a squash shot forehand? Definitely a Conti grip. For a Nadal forehand? Definitely a FW grip. For a Federer forehand? Definitely a SW grip. For a WW forehand? Definitely either a SW or FW grip. If you want to try to hit a WW forehand with an Eastern grip, be my guest, but it ain't gonna be easy...

 

[DoctorBackhand]

...so let's just back up a few. First of all, I don't see anything wrong with the Clijsters photo that you pointed to. It may not be WW, but what she's doing is good stuff, IMHO. Related to that...why did you decide that WW is the only way to go? I'm sure I'll get some argument on this, but there isn't a single "modern forehand", there's really three fairly distinct variations, each of which has its pluses and minuses:

- The "reverse forehand", which is what Nadal hits. The racket face makes a circle, but stays on the hitting side of the body. Advantage is that you get tons of topspin, disadvantages are that the contact zone with the ball is very small (lots of shanks are possible), there's so much top that sometimes the ball falls short, and, to me, it's biomechanically the most difficult way to hit the forehand.

- The WW forehand, where you hit through the ball and then the hitting face stays open and makes and arc in front of the body, like a windshield wiper. Not a bad approach, because it imparts a fair amount of top, but still has a fairly long contact point with the ball, so you can hit with power, depth, and topspin. Only disadvantage is that it's maybe not the most natural finish to the shot biomechanically...you've started the stroke by going out toward the opposite court, now you have to change the swing path into a WW finish.

- The Federer forehand, where you continue the foreward path of the racket head, it goes all the way out to the end of the travel (max extension of your arm), then the racket head naturally swings through and finishes on the opposite side of the body. You can hit with power, spin, placement, and variety, and I think it's the most biomechanically sound stroke.

Nothing wrong with hitting a WW forehand, and there's also nothing wrong with hitting some WWs and some Federer forehands...and even hitting a "squash shot" forehand when you're stuck and the ball gets behind you. But that kind of variety means you have to be comfortable changing your swing path, as needed...and probably your grip, too.

Any shot can be done with just about any grip, but there are grips for each variation that make the swing path and biomechanics easier. For a squash shot forehand? Definitely a Conti grip. For a Nadal forehand? Definitely a FW grip. For a Federer forehand? Definitely a SW grip. For a WW forehand? Definitely either a SW or FW grip. If you want to try to hit a WW forehand with an Eastern grip, be my guest, but it ain't gonna be easy...

Why? Will Hamilton from FYB uses an eastern grip (Or used to. Not sure if he still uses it) for the WW FH. Its not that difficult really.

aND HOW IS Federer's FH different from a WW? He still has the low to high swing path and finishes over the shoulder. It may look more classical but I don't see how its a different shot entirely from the other two.

 

[skiracer55]

First, as I said...

Why? Will Hamilton from FYB uses an eastern grip (Or used to. Not sure if he still uses it) for the WW FH. Its not that difficult really.

aND HOW IS Federer's FH different from a WW? He still has the low to high swing path and finishes over the shoulder. It may look more classical but I don't see how its a different shot entirely from the other two.

...you can use any grip you want for any stroke you want, and make it work, if you work at it enough. IMHO, SW is a going to be a little easier, biomechanically for most of us on a WW forehand, but whatever floats your boat is what works. Stefan Edberg used a Conti grip and he still hit topspin on the forehand...his forehand looked like he was shoveling manure, which is strange, because the rest of his game was very clean, but it worked for him.

And I'd say that it's a fine distinction for WW versus what Fed does, but I do think there is a difference, and I tried to describe what I think that difference is...but if you don't think there's a difference, that's fine, too...

 

[rkelley]

I have a Eastern Grip and have recently been attempting to switch from a classic FH to a WW forehand but cant get the hang of the swing. I can do it easily while shadow stroking or using the FYB progression vid where you hold the racquet at the end of the grip and do mini swings. However, whenever I go back to full hitting I start extending across again and it turns into a combination. I have been trying to add more wrist rotation and pronating but I still cant seem to get it down. If anyone has any tips and cant tell me what it is I have to do differently with a eastern grip to get the follow through and stop getting into this position shown in this picture that would be awesome!
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/...clijsters-running-forehand-aus-open2011-s.jpg

For what's it's worth, IMO you can hit a WW forehand with an E. grip. You can use any grip from a full E. to a full W. Maybe you can use a Cont. or an Hawiian, but I wouldn't honestly. The WW describes a swing path, not a stance or a grip. That swing path goes out towards the ball and then uses wrist pronation to create the topspin.

Along with the WW swing path most people usually end up using more Western grips, SW being the most popular, and open stances more often than not.

Without a video it's really hard to know what you're doing. Check out this video from Lock and Roll Tennis. He uses a strong E. grip, between a full E. and and SW, and clearly shows how to generate a WW swing path.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMNtq...BEF6604B08DECF

The advantage of the more E. grips is that it will be more natural to hit through the ball with less topspin when you want to go for the big shot. Lower balls will be a bit easier to handle, while higher balls will take a bit more practice. To get the topspin you will have to focus on the pronation a bit more than someone using a more Western grip, but you can get huge topspin with an E. grip if you use the WW path.

With the full Western higher balls will be easier, but lower balls more of a challenge. The topspin will come more easily. You can get pretty big topspin even if you don't pronate a ton just because of the swing that will be more natural with that grip. However hitting through the ball is a bit harder, though quite doable with practice.

The SW grip kind of balances the strength and weakness of either extreme, which is why I suspect a lot of pros use it. But Federer uses an E. or strong E. grip, and Djokovic is almost full W., the both of those guys can hit a pretty good ball, so I'd say it's up to you.

One thing that the Lock and Roll guy teaches that I think is helpful to use with the more E. grips is the prep of a higher take back with the racquet rotated towards the side the fence. You can get the WW motion without doing this, but the prep that the Lock and Roll guy teaches makes it easier I think. It's very similar to the prep you see most of the pros use.

With this prep, when you "pull the trigger," i.e. start the rotation of the hips and then the shoulders to begin the forward swing, the racquet will naturally drop down and back into the "pat the dog" position and be ready to whip into and over the ball. You really can get an incredible amount of topspin with this.

 

[10sLifer]

I have a Eastern Grip and have recently been attempting to switch from a classic FH to a WW forehand but cant get the hang of the swing. I can do it easily while shadow stroking or using the FYB progression vid where you hold the racquet at the end of the grip and do mini swings. However, whenever I go back to full hitting I start extending across again and it turns into a combination. I have been trying to add more wrist rotation and pronating but I still cant seem to get it down. If anyone has any tips and cant tell me what it is I have to do differently with a eastern grip to get the follow through and stop getting into this position shown in this picture that would be awesome!
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/...clijsters-running-forehand-aus-open2011-s.jpg

Just really try to snap that wrist and forearm right at contact!! Here watch this vid it should help!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGCuiyukSQc&feature=channel_video_title


fml

 

[tennis_pr0]

You are not snapping your wrist at all. The wrist in fact is not really moving. A couple tips that may help you would be a contact point far out in front of you, keep a very, very lose grip and what the last poster referred to as snapping your wrist, well the wrist will basically "release" into the ball. The wrist is laid back on the take back, then the entire arm extends out in front of you to the ball, at contact, by keeping a lose arm and grip, your forearm and wrist will basically be released into the ball, and this will naturally happen by staying lose. The ww forehand is simply a swing path, a swing path for top spin. By making sure your contact point is far in front and your wrist and entire arm is very lose and relaxed, the motion should come to you with practice. As far as grip, it does not matter what grip you use. You can do a ww forehand with a continental grip..

 

[tlm]

Lose the eastern grip for God's sake. A semi or western makes the ww much easier and actually can make it a natural follow through from the grip.

Why in the world would anyone want to use an eastern grip and try to learn the ww forehand? I can't believe that some here are saying it does not matter what grip you use. I use a ww forehand 90% of the time and i suppose i could use a eastern grip if i really tried but it would make it more difficult and awkward.

If i am rushed and do not get my grip set to western and try to still hit ww forehand i will mishit the shot most of the time. So for a player trying to learn the ww and using eastern grip is just bad advise.

 

[rkelley]

Lose the eastern grip for God's sake. A semi or western makes the ww much easier and actually can make it a natural follow through from the grip.

Why in the world would anyone want to use an eastern grip and try to learn the ww forehand?.

Because it makes it easier to flatten out the shot when you want to hit through it more and it makes lower balls a bit easier to handle. You can still hit the ball with tons of topspin when you want to.

I can't believe that some here are saying it does not matter what grip you use.

It matters, but there's a choice involved based on the strengths and weaknesses for each grip. You can hit a modern, WW forehand with an E., a W., or anything inbetween. It's not like the serve or volleys where there's really no choice of grip if you want to hit the shot properly and most effectively.

So for a player trying to learn the ww and using eastern grip is just bad advise.

I'd disagree. It's a great grip to start with because it's easier to cleanly hit the ball. This is what Dave Smith recommends. The player has the option to rotate to a more Western grip after they have the basic swing path down. Again, it's not like the serve or volleys where use of other grips completely alters the swing mechanics. The SW grip is actually the most popular grip on both tours right now, splitting the difference of the two extremes.

 

[tlm]

Because it makes it easier to flatten out the shot when you want to hit through it more and it makes lower balls a bit easier to handle. You can still hit the ball with tons of topspin when you want to.



It matters, but there's a choice involved based on the strengths and weaknesses for each grip. You can hit a modern, WW forehand with an E., a W., or anything inbetween. It's not like the serve or volleys where there's really no choice of grip if you want to hit the shot properly and most effectively.



I'd disagree. It's a great grip to start with because it's easier to cleanly hit the ball. This is what Dave Smith recommends. The player has the option to rotate to a more Western grip after they have the basic swing path down. Again, it's not like the serve or volleys where use of other grips completely alters the swing mechanics. The SW grip is actually the most popular grip on both tours right now, splitting the difference of the two extremes.

Never said that the eastern is not a good grip to start with, but that was not the subject. The topic was learning a ww forehand, or at least i thought it was. You are now talking about what Dave Smith recommends to start with, can't see where that has anything to do with the subject.

One of the main benefits of using the ww is the added top and side spin that this stroke puts on the ball. Which enables a player to swing out and still keep the ball in the court. And it is much easier to learn with at least a semi western grip.

So if a player wants to hit more flat and conventional then use a eastern grip. But if you want to learn the ww forehand the fastest and easiest way is to use a sw or full western grip.

 

[rkelley]

Never said that the eastern is not a good grip to start with, but that was not the subject. The topic was learning a ww forehand, or at least i thought it was. You are now talking about what Dave Smith recommends to start with, can't see where that has anything to do with the subject.

One of the main benefits of using the ww is the added top and side spin that this stroke puts on the ball. Which enables a player to swing out and still keep the ball in the court. And it is much easier to learn with at least a semi western grip.

So if a player wants to hit more flat and conventional then use a eastern grip. But if you want to learn the ww forehand the fastest and easiest way is to use a sw or full western grip.

Apologies if I misinterpreted your meaning about starting with an E. grip. However we'll have to disagree on its usage for advanced players. I believe that one can continue to use it and have a high level, modern (i.e. WW motion) forehand. The grip is used on the men's tour by Federer, Fish, and I think Del Potro has used it or uses it currently. You can still implement the WW swing path and get the same huge amounts of topspin with this grip as you can with more Western grips. As I've mentioned in early posts, there are pros and cons with its use and certainly the SW grip is more common, but the E. grip can be and is used in a WW forehand to great effectiveness.

 

[10sEmporer]

ski racer - you have that picture on top of the hill.

does Steffi do WW? no.... true E FH players can't really do that because the contact is more to the side, instead of more forward with a SW.

just look at Steffi.

Fed has extreme E, a different animal.

 

[tlm]

Apologies if I misinterpreted your meaning about starting with an E. grip. However we'll have to disagree on its usage for advanced players. I believe that one can continue to use it and have a high level, modern (i.e. WW motion) forehand. The grip is used on the men's tour by Federer, Fish, and I think Del Potro has used it or uses it currently. You can still implement the WW swing path and get the same huge amounts of topspin with this grip as you can with more Western grips. As I've mentioned in early posts, there are pros and cons with its use and certainly the SW grip is more common, but the E. grip can be and is used in a WW forehand to great effectiveness.

I am sure it can be, but you are referring to pro players. I believe that for someone who wants to learn the ww forehand it would be much easier with a sw grip. Once they get the hang of it then they could experiment with changing the grip.