Playing better with eastern forehand grip

[chazz]

I've been experimenting with an eastern forehand grip and I'm liking the results. I like that I can get more depth and extend the contact point. I also get a little more separation as I felt that I made contact with the ball a little too close to the body with a semi western grip. I've noticed better returns on low pace serves as well. Also seems to be less effort involved with using the eastern grip. I was using an eastern grip when I first started playing then it somehow turned into a semi western grip. I came across a youtube video of someone who recommended trying an eastern grip if you're having trouble with a more extreme grip as a fix. Their point was that an eastern grip is more natural like when you swing without a racquet in your hand. It also feels better at contact.

 

[Mark-Touch]

I've been experimenting with an eastern forehand grip and I'm liking the results. I like that I can get more depth and extend the contact point. I also get a little more separation as I felt that I made contact with the ball a little too close to the body with a semi western grip. I've noticed better returns on low pace serves as well. Also seems to be less effort involved with using the eastern grip. I was using an eastern grip when I first started playing then it somehow turned into a semi western grip. I came across a youtube video of someone who recommended trying an eastern grip if you're having trouble with a more extreme grip as a fix. Their point was that an eastern grip is more natural like when you swing without a racquet in your hand. It also feels better at contact.

Fed used an eastern grip. 'nuf said.

 

[Curious]

I've been experimenting with an eastern forehand grip and I'm liking the results. I like that I can get more depth and extend the contact point. I also get a little more separation as I felt that I made contact with the ball a little too close to the body with a semi western grip. I've noticed better returns on low pace serves as well. Also seems to be less effort involved with using the eastern grip. I was using an eastern grip when I first started playing then it somehow turned into a semi western grip. I came across a youtube video of someone who recommended trying an eastern grip if you're having trouble with a more extreme grip as a fix. Their point was that an eastern grip is more natural like when you swing without a racquet in your hand. It also feels better at contact.

I experimented something with eastern grip today.

 

[LOBALOT]

I have been using one for 50+ years. For some reason I bet there are a lot of players like me that have been playing with one for that long.

 

[user92626]

I experimented something with eastern grip today.

Is there anything you don't record?

Don't answer that. I really don't wanna know.


I like to play around too but I am afraid I would mess up my newly found unsettled techniques. Like, it's hard enough to cement new habits, you constantly go astray with various things.

 

[LuckyR]

I have been using one for 50+ years. For some reason I bet there are a lot of players like me that have been playing with one for that long.

Yeah, it was very popular before over sized racquets and poly strings. Great for slice, low shots and transitioning to volleys. Also very easy on elbows/wrists.

 

[fecund345]

I experimented something with eastern grip today.

Looks good...now hold the same grip with your thumb, index finger, and middle finger at the butt of the racket with the ring finger and pinkie below the but not gripping the racket. Hit like this until your muscle memory gets use to the loose grip feeling then go back to your regular grip. You will feel like you can't miss.

 

[coolvinny]

I experimented something with eastern grip today.

Still jammed with almost no extension. Also these are knee high balls which are unrealistic for modern tennis, so it’s doubtful you can draw helpful conclusions. Keep in mind that a forehand grip change is a major major event. I did it but I’m younger and flip flopped along the way because it was so difficult. We’re talking 12+ months and then you will have new high ball problems (none of us are Fed).

 

[Curious]

Still jammed with almost no extension. Also these are knee high balls which are unrealistic for modern tennis, so it’s doubtful you can draw helpful conclusions. Keep in mind that a forehand grip change is a major major event. I did it but I’m younger and flip flopped along the way because it was so difficult. We’re talking 12+ months and then you will have new high ball problems (none of us are Fed).

I was only testing the idea of swinging at the ball leading with the edge of the racket. How interesting that a fully closed racket opens and hits a nice topspin shot even if you feel the edge will hit the ball.

 

[user92626]

@Curious

For power obsessed people like us, do you try to identify the weakest link in your stroke? The link that limits your power?

 

[Curious]

@Curious

For power obsessed people like us, do you try to identify the weakest link in your stroke? The link that limits your power?

For some reason I’ve never really been obsessed about power or pace except for the serve.
I’m obsessed about everything else though.

 

[zill]

I experimented something with eastern grip today.

Have you tried this experiment using a sw grip?

 

[eah123]

I started tennis as an adult playing with a Pure Aero and semiwestern grip. After a year of play, I realized that I would never be able to play like Rafa. I also got tennis elbow. So I switched racquets and also my grip to eastern. It’s suits my body and my game much better.

 

[Curious]

Have you tried this experiment using a sw grip?

No. Leading with the edge is an interesting idea, on backhand too. Racket face automatically opens enough at contact. Lead with the racket face it usually opens too much.

 

[zill]

No. Leading with the edge is an interesting idea, on backhand too. Racket face automatically opens enough at contact. Lead with the racket face it usually opens too much.

Why didn’t you try that experiment with a sw grip?

 

[user92626]

For some reason I’ve never really been obsessed about power or pace except for the serve.
I’m obsessed about everything else though.

I see.

@zill and @Curious

You guys seem to pay a lot of time on tennis. Have you discovered anything new lately? Any revelation, discoveries the last couple days? Or nothing new. You just need to practice, drill the things you already know!?

It seems like I discover something new every other day. It's only new to me because my tennis has so many flaws! LOL..and probably trivial to you guys and everyone.

It feels funny and ridiculous at the same time!

 

[zill]

I see.

@zill and @Curious

You guys seem to pay a lot of time on tennis. Have you discovered anything new lately? Any revelation, discoveries the last couple days? Or nothing new. You just need to practice, drill the things you already know!?

It seems like I discover something new every other day. It's only new to me because my tennis has so many flaws! LOL..and probably trivial to you guys and everyone.

It feels funny and ridiculous at the same time!

Usually I discover something new each time i step onto the court or have a hit. It should change from technique to tactics and psychology as one’s technique matures and becomes complete as am experiencing now.

 

[ppma]

No. Leading with the edge is an interesting idea, on backhand too. Racket face automatically opens enough at contact. Lead with the racket face it usually opens too much.

Ok, now I will expose here some scientific nerdiness.

Each body has three main moments of inertia. In the case of a racquet the first one is the racquet simmetry axis, aligned with the handle. The third one, is perpendicular to the string bed, around the center of mass. Finally, the second one is in the intersection with the first and third, but perpendicular to both. This means it goes in the secondary strings direction.

Well, the funny thing, is that you can have a racquet rotate in a stable way around its first and third axis, but no around the second axis. If you try to make it turn around the second axis it will flip diagonally. This axis is unstable for rotation. This is called the second axis theorem or the Dzhanibekov effect.

Why is this important? For any newcomer to the sport the reasonable way to hit a tennis ball is swinging the racquet with the strings perpendicular to the ground. This implies a rotation of the racquet along an axis that is parallel to the second (unstable) axis. This makes the swing more difficult to control, as the racquet face will be prone to open (most likely) or close in excess on its own. Leading, at least partly, with the racquet edge is a solid approach for any swing motion.

 

[Curious]

Ok, now I will expose here some scientific nerdiness.

Each body has three main moments of inertia. In the case of a racquet the first one is the racquet simmetry axis, aligned with the handle. The third one, is perpendicular to the string bed, around the center of mass. Finally, the second one is in the intersection with the first and third, but perpendicular to both. This means it goes in the secondary strings direction.

Well, the funny thing, is that you can have a racquet rotate in a stable way around its first and third axis, but no around the second axis. If you try to make it turn around the second axis it will flip diagonally. This axis is unstable for rotation. This is called the second axis theorem or the Dzhanibekov effect.

Why is this important? For any newcomer to the sport the reasonable way to hit a tennis ball is swinging the racquet with the strings perpendicular to the ground. This implies a rotation of the racquet along an axis that is parallel to the second (unstable) axis. This makes the swing more difficult to control, as the racquet face will be prone to open (most likely) or close in excess on its own. Leading, at least partly, with the racquet edge is a solid approach for any swing motion.

I was relieved with the last sentence although I didn’t understand the part before that.

 

[Curious]

Why didn’t you try that experiment with a sw grip?

Because it was triggered by Dimitrov forehand. How he lays the racket completely flat to the ground and swings forward with his mild grip yet can hit great penetrating topspin forehands.

 

[ppma]

I was relieved with the last sentence although I didn’t understand the part before that.

Easier shown in an image than explained with words: a racquet spinning is stable around the handle axis, around an axis perpendicular to the strings, but not around an aixs parallel to the secondary strings.

 

[Curious]

Easier shown in an image than explained with words: a racquet spinning is stable around the handle axis, around an axis perpendicular to the strings, but not around an aixs parallel to the secondary strings.

Got it. Thanks.

 

[chazz]

There seems to be a lot of versatility in how you prepare to hit with the eastern forehand grip as well. I can't run all day on the court like I used to so I've been playing a more aggressive game and getting into the net more. There's much less of a transition going to my two handed backhand and volley grips. I think it's definitely a viable grip for rec players unless you're playing heavy topspin players on slow clay courts.

 

[user92626]

Easier shown in an image than explained with words: a racquet spinning is stable around the handle axis, around an axis perpendicular to the strings, but not around an aixs parallel to the secondary strings.

So, all 3 spins can be stable? Is that the point?

 

[ppma]

So, all 3 spins can be stable? Is that the point?

The contrary. If you see the trhow around the second axis (e1) makes the racquet spin around the first main axis (e0) and as a consequence, by composition, around the axis e2. Note that this is unintentional. Try with your own racquet.

The point is that spinning around the axis 2 (1 in the picture), which is parallell to cross strings is never stable in racquets.
So that applied to swinging, means that swinging with a swingpath normal to the racquet face (slap swing sort of motion) involves some conscious control to prevent the racquet from naturally tilt (change face orientation up/down). I can not speak about how strong the action should be though; maybe it's minimal, maybe not.

 

[zill]

The contrary. If you see the trhow around the second axis (e1) makes the racquet spin around the first main axis (e0) and as a consequence, by composition, around the axis e2. Note that this is unintentional. Try with your own racquet.

The point is that spinning around the axis 2 (1 in the picture), which is parallell to cross strings is never stable in racquets.
So that applied to swinging, means that swinging with a swingpath normal to the racquet face (slap swing sort of motion) involves some conscious control to prevent the racquet from naturally tilt (change face orientation up/down). I can not speak about how strong the action should be though; maybe it's minimal, maybe not.

Moral of the story open the racquet face to contact as late as possible.

 

[user92626]

Moral of the story open the racquet face to contact as late as possible.

Is that what YOU do (or try to do)? And what you're advising Curious to do, too?

 

[Curious]

Is that what YOU do (or try to do)? And what you're advising Curious to do, too?

Lead with the bottom edge of the frame in the back swing, lead with the top edge in the forward. That’s my mental cue now both on forehand and backhand. Avoid leading with the racket face at all times in short.

 

[zill]

Is that what YOU do (or try to do)? And what you're advising Curious to do, too?

A billion ways of doing this but one correct way and none of you are even close.

 

[Curious]

A billion ways of doing this but one correct way and none of you are even close.

Explain with a video.

 

[Curious]

Lead with the bottom edge of the frame in the back swing, lead with the top edge in the forward. That’s my mental cue now both on forehand and backhand. Avoid leading with the racket face at all times in short.

Pretty much the same concept. Leading with the edge swing.

 

[user92626]

Moral of the story open the racquet face to contact as late as possible.

Lead with the bottom edge of the frame in the back swing, lead with the top edge in the forward. That’s my mental cue now both on forehand and backhand. Avoid leading with the racket face at all times in short.

Nice. No wonder Agassi only won a handful of trophies. Sucker.

Fr now on you guys are my technical coaches. You guys know sooo much


Look at the clueless dude who doesn't know how to hit the FH:

 

[Curious]

Nice. No wonder Agassi only won a handful of trophies. Sucker.

Fr now on you guys are my technical coaches. You guys know sooo much


Look at the clueless dude who doesn't know how to hit the FH:

He’s doing exactly what I was talking about! Bottom edge leads backswing, top edge leads forward swing.

 

[user92626]

He’s doing exactly what I was talking about! Bottom edge leads backswing, top edge leads forward swing.

By edge you mean somewhat open racket face that we can see the string?

 

[Curious]

By edge you mean somewhat open racket face that we can see the string?

On edge movement in space.

 

[zill]

Explain with a video.

Whatever I say you won't listen.

 

[zill]

I see.

@zill and @Curious

You guys seem to pay a lot of time on tennis. Have you discovered anything new lately? Any revelation, discoveries the last couple days? Or nothing new. You just need to practice, drill the things you already know!?

It seems like I discover something new every other day. It's only new to me because my tennis has so many flaws! LOL..and probably trivial to you guys and everyone.

It feels funny and ridiculous at the same time!

Usually I discover something new each time i step onto the court or have a hit. It should change from technique to tactics and psychology as one’s technique matures and becomes complete as am experiencing now.

For the first time since I came back to tennis 7.5 years ago did not add any new technique notes after an intense match today against a quality junior opponent.

Notes for me today are tactic: Am wondering if there is a ref book where one can follow strategies based on weaknesses of the opponent.

Physicality is an obvious one for me. Knee felt the best since my injury actually but weight is a HUGE factor lol. Am at the most unfit since starting tennis again 7.5 years ago when I was 20kg lighter and coming from a competitive cycling background.

 

[Curious]

Whatever I say you won't listen.

Good excuse!

 

[zill]

Good excuse!

Also I enjoy seeing you thinking about technique in the wilderness…in circles.

 

[zill]

Explain with a video.

On edge movement in space.

On edge is on the right track but I’ll give you a clue the correct way is beyond your wildest Imagination…

 

[Curious]

Also I enjoy seeing you thinking about technique in the wilderness…in circles.

You said you wanted to help me.

 

[zill]

You said you wanted to help me.

Whatever I say you won't listen.

I did before but after we played a match you avoided me. LOTS of negative vibes from you.

 

[Curious]

I did before but after we played a match you avoided me. LOTS of negative vibes from you.

Ok. You don’t want to help others here? You say 99% of people don’t know the proper way. Why don’t you enlighten them?!

 

[zill]

Ok. You don’t want to help others here? You say 99% of people don’t know the proper way. Why don’t you enlighten them?!

I have tried to put my point of view across here but most dismiss them harshly. eg the snap

It's apparently too sensitive to mention the word for the serve let alone groundstrokes.

 

[Waves]

Ok, now I will expose here some scientific nerdiness.

Each body has three main moments of inertia. In the case of a racquet the first one is the racquet simmetry axis, aligned with the handle. The third one, is perpendicular to the string bed, around the center of mass. Finally, the second one is in the intersection with the first and third, but perpendicular to both. This means it goes in the secondary strings direction.

Well, the funny thing, is that you can have a racquet rotate in a stable way around its first and third axis, but no around the second axis. If you try to make it turn around the second axis it will flip diagonally. This axis is unstable for rotation. This is called the second axis theorem or the Dzhanibekov effect.

Why is this important? For any newcomer to the sport the reasonable way to hit a tennis ball is swinging the racquet with the strings perpendicular to the ground. This implies a rotation of the racquet along an axis that is parallel to the second (unstable) axis. This makes the swing more difficult to control, as the racquet face will be prone to open (most likely) or close in excess on its own. Leading, at least partly, with the racquet edge is a solid approach for any swing motion.

That is so cool! Thanks for posting it.

 

[user92626]

Also I enjoy seeing you thinking about technique in the wilderness…in circles.

I did before but after we played a match you avoided me. LOTS of negative vibes from you.

I have tried to put my point of view across here but most dismiss them harshly. eg the snap

It's apparently too sensitive to mention the word for the serve let alone groundstrokes.

I'm sensing you're carrying a chip on your shoulder. Let it down and move on, man.

I find that when I'm sharing something I'm also forced to re-examine it and thus improving myself.

 

[user92626]

You said you wanted to help me.

If you wanted to be helped, just continue to post your videos and actually ask for tips.


There's quite many very qualified players who can help!...Or you're just being factitious with our pal zill?

 

[Curious]

If you wanted to be helped, just continue to post your videos and actually ask for tips.


There's quite many very qualified players who can help!...Or you're just being factitious with our pal zill?

Sure, I'll keep posting videos, ask questions. I like it. Some people are annoyed as they think I don't listen to them. I actually do but as a very curious person I keep asking more, doubting. I get millions of aha moments, then test them, get frustrated that they fail sometimes, then continue trying, thinking, asking. Geez! What a mess, eh?

 

[zill]

Sure, I'll keep posting videos, ask questions. I like it. Some people are annoyed as they think I don't listen to them. I actually do but as a very curious person I keep asking more, doubting. I get millions of aha moments, then test them, get frustrated that they fail sometimes, then continue trying, thinking, asking. Geez! What a mess, eh?

Big circular mess, yes.

 

[zill]

I'm sensing you're carrying a chip on your shoulder. Let it down and move on, man.

I find that when I'm sharing something I'm also forced to re-examine it and thus improving myself.

The chip will be removed after Curious asks me for a friendly hit.