help with footwork for inside-out forehand
- Thread starter 1171
- Start date
Some good questions here especially since I just did some intense inside-out forehand drilling yesterday.
When you are going to hit an inside-out forehand usually you are looking at a slower ball which allows you time to move around the backhand and hit the forehand to the outside. The key is to get there as quickly as possible and get in a closed stance (what I prefer anyway). I like the closed stance because you can either hit that inside-out forehand or you could just pull the ball down the line behind your opponent if he sees the inside-out forehand coming. You definitely want to move into the court when hitting the inside out forehand because you are giving up a lot of space and definitely do not want to move left anymore and give up even more space.
Just how I like to play my inside-out forehand!
When you are going to hit an inside-out forehand usually you are looking at a slower ball which allows you time to move around the backhand and hit the forehand to the outside. The key is to get there as quickly as possible and get in a closed stance (what I prefer anyway). I like the closed stance because you can either hit that inside-out forehand or you could just pull the ball down the line behind your opponent if he sees the inside-out forehand coming. You definitely want to move into the court when hitting the inside out forehand because you are giving up a lot of space and definitely do not want to move left anymore and give up even more space.
Just how I like to play my inside-out forehand!
thank you for the reply.
I searched internet for a better visual clue.
I found http://www.virtualtennisacademy.com/
On the left hand side of the page, under video demonstration. It talks about the inside-out forehand.
You mentioned from your experience, you try to move in, and move to left as much as possible. That is a very sound advice. I will try that in practice.
In the video demonstration, the girl is shuffling for the inside-out forehand. She is a touring pro. Her shuffling looks fine.
I just wonder whether this "running backward" as posted in the tennis magazine is better? Is it REALLY better in practice?
Backward run vs. inside-out semi-circle shuffling, which is better?
Your comment on using close stance is also very good. The girl in demonstration looks like she loads her weight on right leg, swivel her hip, and finishes on her right leg like a close stance weight transfer. Very valid point.
I searched internet for a better visual clue.
I found http://www.virtualtennisacademy.com/
On the left hand side of the page, under video demonstration. It talks about the inside-out forehand.
You mentioned from your experience, you try to move in, and move to left as much as possible. That is a very sound advice. I will try that in practice.
In the video demonstration, the girl is shuffling for the inside-out forehand. She is a touring pro. Her shuffling looks fine.
I just wonder whether this "running backward" as posted in the tennis magazine is better? Is it REALLY better in practice?
Backward run vs. inside-out semi-circle shuffling, which is better?
Your comment on using close stance is also very good. The girl in demonstration looks like she loads her weight on right leg, swivel her hip, and finishes on her right leg like a close stance weight transfer. Very valid point.
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
Yes, it is a shuffle but a quick one especially if you want to run around a ball a bit farther from you.
The footwork pattern for the inside-out forehand is to make a "C" shape or arc around the bounce of the ball and hit crosscourt. Sometimes you can go down the line. But mostly you want to hit it crosscourt.
Some things to think about.
1. When you decide you want to hit an inside-out forehand, you need to make sure you choose the right ball to do it on or you will leave your court open for a potential reply that will have you playing defensively and scrambling to stay in the point. Even if you hit a good one, leaving an open court to hit on can mean that all the opponent needs to do is just "get it back" and he will either neutralize your shot or have you hitting on the run and off balance on the next ball. He may be just two balls away after your inside-out forehand to force an error from you or win the point outright. Always keep your court closed.
2. Although it is tempting to hit inside-out forehands on a lot of balls, court position is important to consider when actually carrying out the shot. You need to hit the majority of your inside-out forehands when your reltively near the center mark. If you decided to hit your inside-out forehand farther away from center mark, you best hit a real good shot or a winner to end the point. Otherwise, your playing with fire.
3. Hit your inside-out forehand over the lower part of the net and to the longer part of the court - which is crosscourt.
4. If you do go DTL, just know you either better follow the ball, or you need to allow yourself time to recover for your opponents reply.
5. Usually when you are coming in on a short ball and run around the backhand, you want to hit a penetrating shot or a winner.
6. Know the opponent you are playing and know your self. If you are playing Speedy Gonzalez and you move like Deputy Dog, you might want to hit your inside out forehands near center mark and use it to change it up a bit or get a more favorable match (forehand to forehand with righties, or forehand to backhand with lefties). You can also use it to hit a more penetrating shot to get an unforced error or produce a short ball for your next ball. Just think out there.
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Bill,
I'm sure you didn't mean it, but the terms "Speedy Gonzalez" and "Deputy Dog" are seen as pejorative, and for some maybe racist illustrations of groups of people. I was raised in latin america so I am very familiar with the first term. And I'd be more than happy to hear your thoughts on me personally through my website email address instead of seeing them on message boards. Let's hit a little, critical, and specific criticism is beneficial. Thanks. Hope Idaho is working out for you.
I'm sure you didn't mean it, but the terms "Speedy Gonzalez" and "Deputy Dog" are seen as pejorative, and for some maybe racist illustrations of groups of people. I was raised in latin america so I am very familiar with the first term. And I'd be more than happy to hear your thoughts on me personally through my website email address instead of seeing them on message boards. Let's hit a little, critical, and specific criticism is beneficial. Thanks. Hope Idaho is working out for you.
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
No, I meant it.
In case you didn't know, Speedy Gonzalez was a very fast mouse. He also spoke both english and spanish and was very smart. Speedy was a bit mischievious as well helping his fellow mices out of jams. Some players in tennis have Speedies charateristics.
On the other hand, Deputy Dog had a rather sluggish way of meeting people in the elevator (going dooown). Again, some players can identify with Deputy Dog's characteristics on the court.
Pointing out the characteristics of a single identity is in no way racist. People that are insecure with themselves may throw out the "racist" card when in fact there is no basis for it.
In all races, there are fast and slow people. so if anything, I am HUMAN RACIST.
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I wasn't aware that by virtue of using "Speedy Gonzalez" and "Deputy Dog" BB was in any way espousing any "thoughts on you personally." I guess I should get my panties in a twist anytime I hear someone say "Russian bear," and my Florentine friend should run home crying "MaMA'!" at the mention of the "Itallian Stallion."
Mike Cottrill
Hall of Fame
Mark,
I use that term Speedy Gonzalez or Tasmanian devil to describe speedy fellows on court as well. Always used in as good trait not as pejorative statement.
I use that term Speedy Gonzalez or Tasmanian devil to describe speedy fellows on court as well. Always used in as good trait not as pejorative statement.
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
Hilraious isn't it?
If I said "if you are playing an "Andre Agassi" would that mean that I am against short people who are bald? LOL
If I was racist I would be using other more explicit names then Speedy Gonzalez and Deputy Dog. Plus, Speedy and Deputy were of different nationalities. LOL
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All agree, BB has no racial tone in his choice of words. So let me get back to my question.
On my question, do you side shuffle or do you back-pedal?
I think it probably make no difference. I think the key is the angle of shot relative to the body position. If I am hitting forehand crosscourt facing forward, then I should turn 90 degrees to hit the inside-out forehand. I can back-pedal to make this 90 degree turn or I can make a semi-C shuffle for this 90 degree turn.
Now, which foot is my initiation step? Do I drop step with my right foot behind my left foot, Or do I use a big power left foot shuffle to initiate this inside-out footwork?
You might say it makes no difference. But if I have to choose one pattern to engrain into my muscle memory, which way should I go?
On my question, do you side shuffle or do you back-pedal?
I think it probably make no difference. I think the key is the angle of shot relative to the body position. If I am hitting forehand crosscourt facing forward, then I should turn 90 degrees to hit the inside-out forehand. I can back-pedal to make this 90 degree turn or I can make a semi-C shuffle for this 90 degree turn.
Now, which foot is my initiation step? Do I drop step with my right foot behind my left foot, Or do I use a big power left foot shuffle to initiate this inside-out footwork?
You might say it makes no difference. But if I have to choose one pattern to engrain into my muscle memory, which way should I go?
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
I actually push off with my left foot to get around, I am left handed. However, it needs to feel natural to you. Moving your feet a certain way will also depend on where you are relative to the ball.
Just keep it simple. Just start arcing around the spot you think the ball will bounce. Be careful you don't go around too fast or the centrifugal force will throw your balance off slightly. Be in control and use your feet to shuffle around.
As BB said, going with what feels most comfortable in this case may be your best bet. Watching Nadal, he seems to run backwards to 'step around' his backand. Then again, that guy probably goes backwards at 40mph, so he can do it. Most players (Fed included) move laterally to get around the ball.
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
MarkP is the revolutionary tennis guy. Go figure.
Talk about a guy that hides behind his mothers skirt with his conspiracy theories.
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
LOL, nitpicking bulletin board typing?
You are using the same attitude to nitpick other coaches that contributed far more than you have to tennis. You nitpicked the use of Speedy Gonzalez and Deputy Dog as being "racist" in nature. You must be harboring a lot of pain from your past.
Did you know that there is a post on this site concerning the information on your website? Are you up for the challenge and the findings I and others have had based on your information? Tell you what, you go there and answer some questions.
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The Gorilla
Banned
he won't do that, he knows he would only expose his own complete ignorance.
The Gorilla
Banned
BTW Markps
do you suffer from tennis elbow?
do you suffer from tennis elbow?
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
LOL, that does look like it hurts don't it?
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
Is this personal? Please say it is. You can't take a little debate? You can't be that thin-skinned.
What is the matter, can't handle a name such as Speedy Gonzalez used in a non-threatening and non-racist way? Or even poor ol' Deputy Dog?
Or is it that many people here do not agree with your backhand model and that Vic Braden has already touched on some of the information you call "new" on your site.
Although I would like to debate you on your explanation on how to hit the backhand, I also supported you. Do we need to continue?
How right you are 1171. I looked at 6 Agassi clip and 9 Fed clips on tennisone.com. There seemed to be 2 ways. In 10 clips the back foot (or farthest foot, or right foot since their righties) lifted off the ground first and came closer to the other foot. Here the other foot acted as the pivot point and pushed the player to get around the b/h (and then sidestep). This is like when sidestepping where you sidestep and one foot is down (inside foot here) and you bend and push off of it as the outside foot comes into it for another sidestep (and then the inside foot lifts off the ground). In 4 clips the back foot pushed and it starts the sidestep, and in 1 Agassi clip he did a gravity step with the left foot and crossed over in the front with the back (right) foot before swiveling himself around. The clip you offered on virtual tennis does not show a closed stance at the end, she is open, and you'll notice 2 other things, her feet remain very much apart when she does the burst and sidestep into position, unlike Fed and Agassi where their feet come together a lot more, and in her finish you will see, unmentioned, her back foot coming forward into the court if you look at the baseline, which is one of two ways to finish this. The other way to finish it is off the front foot.
It seems to me the only thing to ingrain is the ability to be light on your feet to help you when doing this move, and you need to be lighter on your feet when hitting the ball out of this position. In this manner your body, on its own, will select one of both ways to move the feet. If you find yourself stuck on one form then practice the other to develop the habit, allowing your body to choose. The springing up into the ball at the end is a rhythm and weight transfer thing since you are not moving the feet into the ball, if you hit with your body weight down low to the ground it doesn't work so well. A tip to accomplish all of this is to be on your toes at all times. Hope this helps.
It seems to me the only thing to ingrain is the ability to be light on your feet to help you when doing this move, and you need to be lighter on your feet when hitting the ball out of this position. In this manner your body, on its own, will select one of both ways to move the feet. If you find yourself stuck on one form then practice the other to develop the habit, allowing your body to choose. The springing up into the ball at the end is a rhythm and weight transfer thing since you are not moving the feet into the ball, if you hit with your body weight down low to the ground it doesn't work so well. A tip to accomplish all of this is to be on your toes at all times. Hope this helps.
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
Actually, for training purposes, being light on your feet is not the only thing a player needs to have or understand about the inside-out forehand.
First off, being light on your feet is something you are or you are not. You don’t ingrain being light on your feet.
Players need a slow feed that will produce a ball they will typically run around. A player then makes an arching pattern which can be demonstrated by simply placing a ball on the court and making a C-shaped or arching pattern around the ball. Next, just feed some slow balls that the player can run around.
Also, knowing when to hit an inside-out forehand and where you should hit it from on the court is also fundamental to this stroke.
The Gorilla
Banned
Actually being light on your feet is a consequence of running on your toes, if you run on the balls of your feet less of your foot makes contact with the ground and a quieter noise is made, it's like the difference between the noise made when you click your fingers and when you clap your hand.
It's important to run on your toes because if you land on your heel, (very extreme and unusual), or as is most often the case, on your entire foot, you will have to waste a precious milisecond shifting your weight back to your the ball of your foot so you can push off.
An example of a person who runs on their toes is Federer, an example of someone who lands flat on their foot is Roddick.
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
However, being light on your feet is also part of being light yourself. Tough to be light on your feet when you are heavy in the mid-section. In order to be light on your feet a player needs to be in shape so they can sustain being light on their feet throughout the match. Inside-out forehands are hit at various times in the match and you either are on your toes or you are not. You are either light on your feet or you are not.
Being light on your feet is a characteristic of a player which is built on other factors that ALLOW them to be light on their feet.
The Gorilla
Banned
I don't know, I was inclined to think that myself until I saw a footballer called maradonna, he was unbelievably heavy for a professional soccer player,and unbelievably nimble and quick, there's also a rugby player called brian o driscoll who has a similar physique and speed.Obviously if you're tired due to being unfit, no matter how well grounded your running technique is you aren't going to be able to move quick enough to get to the ball and ift this is what you meant by being light on your feet, ie, quick to react, then I definitely agree
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
We are in agreement, so no worries. I only say this because I am a family man and I do not play tennis as much as I would like. Soooooo, I also am not as physically fit as I would like to be (although a lot better than a year ago).
There are a lot things that go into being "light on your feet". Let's move on to that backhand debate!
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
Not so fast grasshopper. Confuscious say, "too much information is too much information."
