Henin busts two myths
- Thread starter Curious
- Start date
Curious
G.O.A.T.
so that it's parallel to the ground or even pointing towards the back fence ( in more extreme cases )
How closed the face is or isn't to the ground is completely irrelevant, not sure why people keep mentioning that (I'm talking about all the 'coaches' on Youtube).
The only thing that matters is that the face is closed relative to the swing path, thus allowing contact above the equator of the ball relative to the swing path, thus imparting spin. So yes, to hit topspin the face must always be closed relative to the swing path.
It may end up vertical, slightly closed or even slightly open at contact relative to the ground, depending on the swing path. But again, ground is irrelevant. The steeper the swing path, the more open the face will end up relative to the ground.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Talking about closing the racket face while dropping it and having it closed when the forward swing starts. My coach asked me to ditch that. He says there's no need to add another variable, an extra movement of the racket face from facing the backfence to going towards the ball. Just drop the racket on its edge and swing forward. He says it's one of the reasons why balls go into the net especially when you hit fast incoming balls back.
Look at this. That it works for Edmund doesn't mean it's a good thing for everyone, right?
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
As far as the high elbow, she is making a sizable loop with her racquet head. She look more like Agassi (smaller racquet head loop than WTA). But, if she were to not make the racquet head loop, she would be with the elbow. Looks a bit like Swiatek too.
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If you want to hit topspin I'd say it is good to drop the racket at least somewhat closed. If you drop the racket on edge it is more likely to open up too much as you swing forward, because at least for me, dropping the racket on edge leads to a flatter swing path, and a flatter ball especially if you are late and don't contact out in front. If you keep it closed then as it opens up when you swing forward, it will remain more closed relative to the swing path.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I know what you mean and felt the same as well. But doesn't have to be as extreme as parallel to the ground or facing the back fence I reckon. Even when you drop it on its edge it somehow closes to something like 45 degrees to the ground anyway, like what you see in Henin, Agassi or Del Potro forehands. The skill is to be able to avoid opening it too much at contact and that windshield wiper action of course.
I agree, probably 45 degrees to ground is fine.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Just get under the ball and hit it. Get really good at that basic skill instead of focusing on all this minuscule detail.
slipgrip93
Professional
Henin's forehand kind of reminds me of Sampras' (probably with a different grip). She is probably my all-time favorite wta player since Graf, with all court skills. Also great at overcoming odds being so much shorter than her contemporaries. I'm usually more focused on and inspired by her backhand, but would agree her fh was top notch also.
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zill
Legend
Again am smiling at this thread. Experiment with different takebacks and swings and pick the one that best suits you - one where you can hit reliable balls with power and topspin. Hopefully you will discover the fundamentals steps in the stroke - basic generic steps that needs to be performed to carry out your stroke. But how your optimal stroke looks like exactly will ultimately depend on your physiology and biomechanics both of which you have no control over.
Examples of generic steps are things like turn, torso rotation, weight transfer, swing arm forward, snap, extension etc. How exactly they look like you cannot control.
Examples of generic steps are things like turn, torso rotation, weight transfer, swing arm forward, snap, extension etc. How exactly they look like you cannot control.
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Curious
G.O.A.T.
But Sampras has a huge lift of his hitting elbow, the exact opposite of Henin.
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Will your video be on-court hitting or a living room special?
Curious
G.O.A.T.
On-court.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Compare the two players' forehands here. See how her opponent's is a swing, whereas Henin almost slaps the ball. Couldn't be a better demonstration of the completely different forehands.
Who else does it? Mannarino, M.Zverev, @StringSnapper , @TennisProdigy ...
Who else does it? Mannarino, M.Zverev, @StringSnapper , @TennisProdigy ...
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
Oo I like her playstyle. She seems to be a bit under powered though, I'm trying to address this in my own game now by altering my racquet specs. Gonna go for looser thinner strings or change racquet to a 16x19Compare the two players' forehands here. See how her opponent's is a swing, whereas Henin almost slaps the ball. Couldn't be a better demonstration of the completely different forehands.
Who else does it? Mannarino, M.Zverev, @StringSnapper , @TennisProdigy ...
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Her take back is almost too compact.
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
She also seems smaller than her opponent, and you dont normally see too many women with compact take backs - the WTA take back is bigger
Someone like Fognini seems to generate plenty of pace with a small takeback
I wonder what their respective racquet specs are
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I read somewhere that Henin used an even balanced racket with a swingweight of 340! Higher than stock RF97.
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
Yikes, equivalent to @Shroud specsI read somewhere that Henin used an even balanced racket with a swingweight of 340! Higher than stock RF97.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
What is the usual reason given for high elbow on take back?
vex
Legend
My FH didn’t get good until I stopped thinking about all the mechanical details. Brush up the ball as you plow thru it. It’s really that simple.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I’m not ignoring that.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
More leverage, easier power generation I guess.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
I did try to create her high sw low static weight stick
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
Why does serve doc make a huge deal about strings facing down position? He says to practice hitting that specific position. He is very particular on that!!
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Power Player
Bionic Poster
It just matters the grip you use. It's nothing I'd actively think about. The reason some coaches stress it at first is to give the players the proper feel. But at the end of the day its not something you need to be actively thinking about while playing
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
Nikola says he never teaches the take back. He says the players will find it on their own. This sounds like an attractive approach... think I will go with this rather than the Macro approach which totally fixates on the take back.
It is weird that two top coaches have totally opposite different approaches on teaching the take back.
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
how'd you find that on the backhand? Everything ive been reading lately is recommending a very headlight balance for 1hbh
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Its the common wisdom. Fwiw i dont think i am super headlight these days. For me, mgri is more important on the 1 hander.
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
mgri?
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
MgR/i. I think thats right. Its a formula for angular momentum. Travlerajm had a few threads on it. Simple version is that you can weight a racket such that at contact it is still- its not accelerating or decelerating at contact. So you can just swing with a loose grip and not have to actively control the racquet face.
If its speeding up at contact you out weight at 12pm till it is still. If its lagging at contact you put weight at 7” up the handle. One reason i can play with high racquet specs is because the MgR/i is right. I often put 30g at the top of the handle
Here is a link
MGR/I -
MGR/I I would like to start the introduction to the MGR/I parameter, by comparing the 2 players that often get compared because of how similar their games appear to be. »I’m talking about Roger Federer and Grigor Dimitrov. It’s true that Grigor is trying to play like Roger, but everything is...
impactingtennis.com
Curious
G.O.A.T.
It’ll be funny to see Federer’s reaction when asked about his racket’s MgRi thing.MgR/i. I think thats right. Its a formula for angular momentum. Travlerajm had a few threads on it. Simple version is that you can weight a racket such that at contact it is still- its not accelerating or decelerating at contact. So you can just swing with a loose grip and not have to actively control the racquet face.
If its speeding up at contact you out weight at 12pm till it is still. If its lagging at contact you put weight at 7” up the handle. One reason i can play with high racquet specs is because the MgR/i is right. I often put 30g at the top of the handle
Here is a link
MGR/I -
MGR/I I would like to start the introduction to the MGR/I parameter, by comparing the 2 players that often get compared because of how similar their games appear to be. »I’m talking about Roger Federer and Grigor Dimitrov. It’s true that Grigor is trying to play like Roger, but everything is...
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Brushing died a couple decades ago.
zill
Legend
Really? What do they do instead now?
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Hit through the ball. The grip, the flip and it’s resulting pronation to supination to pronation culminating with the ww motion causes the topspin. It’ll allow you to hit 100+mph. Brushing will get you to 50mph. Might as well use a wood racquet.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I doubt it ever existed.
zill
Legend
We must have different interpretations because to me these two guys are brushing the crap out of the ball!!
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Video is not available in my country. Who are they?
zill
Legend
Any use of ww motion is brushing to me.
zill
Legend
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Sorry. Not trying to be trouble, but different “not available” reason, this time.
