Hitting harder = More consistency?

[portpass1974]

I had the most peculiar experience two nights ago playing in a tournament. I was very tight in the first set and lost 3-6. I wasn't serving well and was making a lot of errors. By the end, I couldn't even execute easy putaways near the net.

In the second set, I remembered what another TT poster once wrote: "Play like to want to win, not like you want to avoid losing." So I decided to just go for it and just hit my flat serves and groundstrokes as hard as I could.

Yet surprisingly enough, not only was I putting a lot more pressure on my opponent (and finally starting to hit a few winners here and there), but I was actually hitting it with more topspin and had MORE accuracy and consistency. I won the set 6-2.

By the third, I was literally hitting it as hard as I could - and ever have. Not only on topspin forehands and backhands, but even (to a certain point) on slices and volleys. The thing is, I gained even MORE consistency and was forcing him to make more errors because of the added pace I was putting on the ball. And I actually won the set 6-0 and the match.

I've always been interested in watching the pros, especially the WTA, and how hard they hit the ball. For many of them, I looks - and sounds - like they're literally hitting every topspin ground stroke and hard as they possibly can (Azarenka, Schiavone, Sharapova, etc.).

I know this sounds almost too obvious, but am I right when I say that when you put more power into topspin groundstrokes, you're imparting more topspin on the ball due to higher racquet speed (and thus have safer clearance over the net), and you also have more accuracy towards where you really want to hit it since the ball is compressing into the stringbed more, thus increases dwell time and therefore, directional accuracy?

Does anyone else have experience with enjoying more accuracy and consistency while simply hitting the ball harder, or was that match two nights ago for me just a total fluke?

 

[Clay lover]

I feel that when you try to hit hard, you tend to focus better and your body naturally produce the optimal technique, and things just fall into place. That is if you have the courage and talent though.

 

[LeeD]

To me, it sounds like you hit waay to timidly at the beginning, and your idea of hitting hard is just what you normally do under fun, no pressure hitting.

 

[Joehax]

"Play like to want to win, not like you want to avoid losing."

That is such an awesome quote, I will remember it for my next game

 

[vil]

It sounds like you have a good sound technique of your shots. I think in the first set, you were probably a bit nervous and a bit tight, then you loosened up and started going for your shots that you are normally capable of. This is the right attitude. You just have to believe in your abilities. It's not always easy.
In general, hitting harder doesn't necessarily make you play better. It all depends on your state of mind. If you are positively charged and have sound technique, all you have to do, is start executing and you'll probably do well. If on the other hand you are freaking out or get too emotional from the fear of losing, that will affect you even if you are a great shot maker.
Usually, you've lost your game in your head already.

 

[Mick]

I wish that was true for me. It it was so, I wouldn't have to serve all those second serves

 

[Limpinhitter]

I had the most peculiar experience two nights ago playing in a tournament. I was very tight in the first set and lost 3-6. I wasn't serving well and was making a lot of errors. By the end, I couldn't even execute easy putaways near the net.

In the second set, I remembered what another TT poster once wrote: "Play like to want to win, not like you want to avoid losing." So I decided to just go for it and just hit my flat serves and groundstrokes as hard as I could.

Yet surprisingly enough, not only was I putting a lot more pressure on my opponent (and finally starting to hit a few winners here and there), but I was actually hitting it with more topspin and had MORE accuracy and consistency. I won the set 6-2.

By the third, I was literally hitting it as hard as I could - and ever have. Not only on topspin forehands and backhands, but even (to a certain point) on slices and volleys. The thing is, I gained even MORE consistency and was forcing him to make more errors because of the added pace I was putting on the ball. And I actually won the set 6-0 and the match.

I've always been interested in watching the pros, especially the WTA, and how hard they hit the ball. For many of them, I looks - and sounds - like they're literally hitting every topspin ground stroke and hard as they possibly can (Azarenka, Schiavone, Sharapova, etc.).

I know this sounds almost too obvious, but am I right when I say that when you put more power into topspin groundstrokes, you're imparting more topspin on the ball due to higher racquet speed (and thus have safer clearance over the net), and you also have more accuracy towards where you really want to hit it since the ball is compressing into the stringbed more, thus increases dwell time and therefore, directional accuracy?

Does anyone else have experience with enjoying more accuracy and consistency while simply hitting the ball harder, or was that match two nights ago for me just a total fluke?

The key is to focus on executing your strokes correctly. Remain as relaxed and tension free as you can, accelerate through the ball gradually, not abruptly, or "as hard as you can," and fully execute all of the elements of your shot.

Hitting as hard as you can is not going to be a consistently winning approach. When you get tight, or timid, you are literally not executing properly. Similarly, hitting "as hard as you can" usually results in excess muscle tension which also impairs your shot execution. Further, unless your shot preparation, set up and timing are near perfect, hitting as hard as you can, even if you are able to remain free of excess muscle tension, will result in way too many UE's to win matches.

 

[lendl1986]

The key is to focus on executing your strokes correctly. Remain as relaxed and tension free as you can, accelerate through the ball gradually, not abruptly, or "as hard as you can," and fully execute all of the elements of your shot.

Hitting as hard as you can is not going to be a consistently winning approach. When you get tight, or timid, you are literally not executing properly. Similarly, hitting "as hard as you can" usually results in excess muscle tension which also impairs your shot execution. Further, unless your shot preparation, set up and timing are near perfect, hitting as hard as you can, even if you are able to remain free of excess muscle tension, will result in way too many UE's to win matches.

Well put. The idea of "hitting hard" creates tension in your arms.

A better phrase would be "elastic head speed". And use that speed to generate topspin when you need the control.

 

[boramiNYC]

If and only if the technique is good, a faster racquet head speed will improve consistency. Keep up the swinging hard. But, once you lose control and consistency, check your technique for any flaws. Especially, firm and well controlled core will allow freer swinging from shoulder and arm. When the core loses the firmness the consistency goes down. Generally, faster rhs is good.

 

[tlm]

The key is to focus on executing your strokes correctly. Remain as relaxed and tension free as you can, accelerate through the ball gradually, not abruptly, or "as hard as you can," and fully execute all of the elements of your shot.

Hitting as hard as you can is not going to be a consistently winning approach. When you get tight, or timid, you are literally not executing properly. Similarly, hitting "as hard as you can" usually results in excess muscle tension which also impairs your shot execution. Further, unless your shot preparation, set up and timing are near perfect, hitting as hard as you can, even if you are able to remain free of excess muscle tension, will result in way too many UE's to win matches.

Again right on the money limpin, very good points in this post.

 

[r2473]

The key is to focus on executing your strokes correctly. Remain as relaxed and tension free as you can, accelerate through the ball gradually, not abruptly, or "as hard as you can," and fully execute all of the elements of your shot.

I always think about "allowing my shoulder / arm to be pulled through" by the rotation of my hip / core.

If your shoulder gets even with (or worse ahead of) your hip, all your power is gone. As is your consistency.

 

[toly]

In order to have topspin work, you need a lot of translational ball speed through the air, because topspin works by aerodynamics and aerodynamic force (Magnus force) goes up with the square of the translational ball’s speed.

So, there can be very high probability that harder stokes might have better reliability.

Also, you can see http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=5267384#post5267384 post#15

 

[toly]

I always think about "allowing my shoulder / arm to be pulled through" by the rotation of my hip / core.

If your shoulder gets even with (or worse ahead of) your hip, all your power is gone. As is your consistency.

I disagree.
See please Federer picture around impact.

 

[5263]

The key is to focus on executing your strokes correctly. Remain as relaxed and tension free as you can, accelerate through the ball gradually, not abruptly, or "as hard as you can," and fully execute all of the elements of your shot.

Hitting as hard as you can is not going to be a consistently winning approach. When you get tight, or timid, you are literally not executing properly. Similarly, hitting "as hard as you can" usually results in excess muscle tension which also impairs your shot execution. Further, unless your shot preparation, set up and timing are near perfect, hitting as hard as you can, even if you are able to remain free of excess muscle tension, will result in way too many UE's to win matches.

I agree, very good post and points, although some timely situations with more aggressive
acceleration can work as well.

 

[1HBH Rocks]

I disagree.
See please Federer picture around impact.

In fact, Federer pushes off with his racket leg (he performs a leg extension) and then his hips rotate which finally pulls his shoulders. But his hips don't turn a full 180 degree like his shoulders, so the top is bound to cross the bottom at some point. If you take a still and say "Hey, look! Federer has his hips and shoulders match position!" you're not proving anything... you just showed the point in his swing where the shoulders cross the hips before going beyond them as the hips stop rotating before the shoulders do and started rotating before the shoulders did.

 

[5263]

In fact, Federer pushes off with his racket leg (he performs a leg extension) and then his hips rotate which finally pulls his shoulders. But his hips don't turn a full 180 degree like his shoulders, so the top is bound to cross the bottom at some point. If you take a still and say "Hey, look! Federer has his hips and shoulders match position!" you're not proving anything... you just showed the point in his swing where the shoulders cross the hips before going beyond them as the hips stop rotating before the shoulders do and started rotating before the shoulders did.

I really like a lot of your posts, but
I think you missed Toly's point.
He is saying the shoulders rotate from behind to ahead of the hips, not
continually lag the hips as the other poster says.
In the pic he shows the should at least caught up or slightly ahead of the hips.

 

[alidisperanza]

I had the most peculiar experience two nights ago playing in a tournament. I was very tight in the first set and lost 3-6. I wasn't serving well and was making a lot of errors. By the end, I couldn't even execute easy putaways near the net.

In the second set, I remembered what another TT poster once wrote: "Play like to want to win, not like you want to avoid losing." So I decided to just go for it and just hit my flat serves and groundstrokes as hard as I could.

Yet surprisingly enough, not only was I putting a lot more pressure on my opponent (and finally starting to hit a few winners here and there), but I was actually hitting it with more topspin and had MORE accuracy and consistency. I won the set 6-2.

By the third, I was literally hitting it as hard as I could - and ever have. Not only on topspin forehands and backhands, but even (to a certain point) on slices and volleys. The thing is, I gained even MORE consistency and was forcing him to make more errors because of the added pace I was putting on the ball. And I actually won the set 6-0 and the match.

I've always been interested in watching the pros, especially the WTA, and how hard they hit the ball. For many of them, I looks - and sounds - like they're literally hitting every topspin ground stroke and hard as they possibly can (Azarenka, Schiavone, Sharapova, etc.).

I know this sounds almost too obvious, but am I right when I say that when you put more power into topspin groundstrokes, you're imparting more topspin on the ball due to higher racquet speed (and thus have safer clearance over the net), and you also have more accuracy towards where you really want to hit it since the ball is compressing into the stringbed more, thus increases dwell time and therefore, directional accuracy?

Does anyone else have experience with enjoying more accuracy and consistency while simply hitting the ball harder, or was that match two nights ago for me just a total fluke?

Congrats, you've, "unleashed the beast" as my friend says. A lot of what you said rings very true for me as well. I've noticed that ever since I've cleaned up my footwork and tweaked my strokes a bit I've had the confidence to hit out in matches and on serves and it's payed off in spades. When I regress to being timid, as you mentioned, the ball flies long becuase I'm not hitting a proper shot. That confidence is truly essential to pick up wins at the higher levels of tennis and you'll find that once you're on a roll, it becomes exponential. You'll soon find yourself wanting more and looking to improve your stroke even further.

Provided you're hitting the ball "properly," you will find that the ball will stay in due to the increase in topspin. Same applies for your serve; the extra action you'll generate can pull the ball into the court and make the difference between an explosive serve and a fault. Although I've become a proponent of consistency and "smart" tennis as of late, I haven't applied that to my serve. I still try to stay aggressive on my second serve and it's been paying off in terms of free points (obviously within reason). Keep up the good work!


P.S. "Play like to want to win, not like you want to avoid losing."

This is a FANTASTIC quote, I'm stealing it.

To me, it sounds like you hit waay to timidly at the beginning, and your idea of hitting hard is just what you normally do under fun, no pressure hitting.

Definitely a possibility.

 

[5263]

Congrats, you've, "unleashed the beast" as my friend says. A lot of what you said rings very true for me as well. I've noticed that ever since I've cleaned up my footwork and tweaked my strokes a bit I've had the confidence to hit out in matches and on serves and it's payed off in spades. When I regress to being timid, as you mentioned, the ball flies long becuase I'm not hitting a proper shot. That confidence is truly essential to pick up wins at the higher levels of tennis and you'll find that once you're on a roll, it becomes exponential. You'll soon find yourself wanting more and looking to improve your stroke even further.

yes, and combine what you have learned here with the below info-
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=413112&page=5

 

[1HBH Rocks]

To me, it sounds like you hit waay to timidly at the beginning, and your idea of hitting hard is just what you normally do under fun, no pressure hitting.

I totally agree. Most players don't bother using their body fully and loosely, hence, when they get to do it, they feel like they're hitting big, gaining consistency, placement as well as hitting heavier. It feels like you're unbeatable when every star and planet line up in your motion, isn't it, OP? I think you were simply playing B quality tennis until you started trying to hit the ball with a full swing... Of course, if you were all tight and didn't swing fully beforehand, giving it a little extra and actually trying to go for bigger cuts by more than probably "lengthening" your movements (better shoulder and hip turn, better extension, wider stance, etc.), you just went back to hitting properly...

 

[r2473]

I really like a lot of your posts, but
I think you missed Toly's point.
He is saying the shoulders rotate from behind to ahead of the hips, not
continually lag the hips as the other poster says.
In the pic he shows the should at least caught up or slightly ahead of the hips.

I guess I was taken a bit too literally. I should have worded my comment better. I was thinking more at the start of the swing. How the swing is initiated. It is a "pulling" as opposed to a "pushing" motion. The pulling comes from the hips / torso. And to the OP's point, many people do find it easier to coordinate all the parts when they swing full and hard. I would tend to agree with that.

What you say is true. The shoulders rotate from behind to ahead of the hips, not continually lag the hips.

I actually don't think it would be physically possible to keep your hips in front of your shoulders and arm for the entire swing. It would certainly make for a strange swing at any rate.

 

[1HBH Rocks]

I really like a lot of your posts, but
I think you missed Toly's point.
He is saying the shoulders rotate from behind to ahead of the hips, not
continually lag the hips as the other poster says.
In the pic he shows the should at least caught up or slightly ahead of the hips.

Oh... my bad.

 

[toly]

I really like a lot of your posts, but
I think you missed Toly's point.
He is saying the shoulders rotate from behind to ahead of the hips, not
continually lag the hips as the other poster says.
In the pic he shows the should at least caught up or slightly ahead of the hips.

Thank you for clarification.

 

[tennisfreak3]

That is such an awesome quote, I will remember it for my next game

I read a book about the mental side of tennis. It clearly said, don't play to win, don't play not to lose, but play to hit well. If I hit well with good strategy, I won't be mad if I lose.

If you play to win, you will want to win too much and be stressed.

 

[portpass1974]

The key is to focus on executing your strokes correctly. Remain as relaxed and tension free as you can, accelerate through the ball gradually, not abruptly, or "as hard as you can," and fully execute all of the elements of your shot.

Hitting as hard as you can is not going to be a consistently winning approach. When you get tight, or timid, you are literally not executing properly. Similarly, hitting "as hard as you can" usually results in excess muscle tension which also impairs your shot execution. Further, unless your shot preparation, set up and timing are near perfect, hitting as hard as you can, even if you are able to remain free of excess muscle tension, will result in way too many UE's to win matches.

I should note that I fully understand that reduced tension and greater relaxation are key for both power and consistency as well. Even when I was hitting hard, I tried my best to "stay loose," especially with my grip, arms and shoulders.

In fact, for serving, I grip far down on the racquet and have my pinky finger almost at the very end. I keep the grip gentle throughout the motion, which really increases power.

 

[FEDERERNADAL13]

I went out today and tried this theory of yours OP, and I have to say, it worked for me! The more I focused on hitting hard, the better I hit

Pretty cool, I must say!

 

[Netspirit]

See please Federer picture around impact.

He looks skinny. This is what aging does to people

 

[TheCheese]

I disagree.
See please Federer picture around impact.

I think this really has to do with the two different types of forehands.

In Fed's or Verdasco's forehand, the arm extends out in front much more at contact, whereas in Roddick's or Murray's technique, their arm is closer to in line with their hip at contact.

It's two inherently different forehand mechanics that can both be effective.

It's this:

Versus this:

 

[ace_pace]

I wish this was true for me. I'd be in the atp right now if it were true lol.