How to develop a more solid serve?
- Thread starter men8ifr
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Taveren
Professional
That's why I said it's a enigma wrapped in a puzzle. It's important for OP to see all sides of the story. Maybe he'll be lucky, and get it. All I can say to you, is don't give up! Looking back, I could have probably sped up the process considerably if I knew what I knew now. But I didn't have a coach, so it was a lot of frustration and going to the school of hard knox.
I feel pretty confident in my spin serve, so now it's about learning how to vary the side/top spin, and pace/spin ratios. And maybe be able to hit my spots so I can turn it into a Big weapon.
^ This, my sentiments exactly
There's an expression for this. "You are what you eat." Or in this case, practice. Probably one of those guys who believed flat was impossible and never practiced it. He never thought about expanding his tool box. Yes, it's harder to learn 3 serves at once, and will take longer (kinda like kids who speak multiple languages). If you focus on one thing, you can become better at it but you'll be unbalanced.
crash1929
Hall of Fame
regarding op: I've played all my life, 4.5/5.0 level. I've spent almost the last 2 years working to improve my serve which I considered the weakest part of my game. (Interestingly though I got a lot of good feedback on my serve videos I posted about a year ago here). I've practiced 3-4 days per week for 2-3 hours each session for over a year. I still don't have the control I want on extreme angles or spins but my serve is now the best part of my game. I can place it anywhere, first or second. For example, in 4.5 league play in SF CA we'd give signs on serves. Direction and stay or go on first- and the stay or go for second. Well now I'm definitely good enough to easily take direction signs on second serve and still be aggressive. Just a little example. Anyway through a combination of studying youtube videos and hitting thousands of balls I've isolated a few things that have taken my serve to another stratosphere. It's never too late!
men8ifr
Semi-Pro
Wow so that's 6 to 13 hours a week for a year practicing serving! Or 300 to 600 hours call it 450 hours. I admire your dedication. I am trying to do 1/4 to 1/8 of that at 1.5 hours a week.
men8ifr
Semi-Pro
Well I had my lesson yesterday and the coach pointed out quite a few errors I would not have noticed otherwise. I was moving my right foot past my left so landing on my right in the court which was causing me to twist. He explained this would make flat serves very difficult which may explain my problems. Also my feet were at 11 p clock not 1 o clock to start also I am throwing the ball to far in front. So I have a lot of things to work on but think I could make some big improvements on these aspects in the near future.
Also we had a look at my topspin serve and there I was not throwing the ball far enough to the left nowhere near far enough so I can practice that a bit to see if I can hit a topspin serve. More out of interest than to use in matches at the moment.
Finally on my own I've been mostly practicing slice serves to the backhand side and after 10 min warming up I am getting 90% in to the backhand side with more pace than usual which will make for a good 1st serve at my level.
Of course in a match I don't have 10 min of serves before I need to hit the one that counts but hopefully I will become more consistent from the start with more practice.
Also we had a look at my topspin serve and there I was not throwing the ball far enough to the left nowhere near far enough so I can practice that a bit to see if I can hit a topspin serve. More out of interest than to use in matches at the moment.
Finally on my own I've been mostly practicing slice serves to the backhand side and after 10 min warming up I am getting 90% in to the backhand side with more pace than usual which will make for a good 1st serve at my level.
Of course in a match I don't have 10 min of serves before I need to hit the one that counts but hopefully I will become more consistent from the start with more practice.
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Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Once you get the technique issues resolved, here is a great way to improve your serve.
Play a practice match but give yourself only ONE serve. If you miss it, you lose the point. That will make you get a consistent serve that you can trust. Its great because you can rely on that drill if you are just going for high percentage 1st serves, or for clutch 2nd serves. IMHO alot of service games are lost mentally at the rec level and if you over train, what a luxury it will be to have TWO serves!
Sadly I just have flat, slice and kick. the kick usually jumps to a righties backhand. That is the go to serve because it rarely misses and has enough junk spin to be tricky. Its slow mostly but spinny. I CAN speed it up but its not a must. I sneak in the flat heater after a few games of slow spinny serves. Very good chance that will be an ace if I can get it in.
Play a practice match but give yourself only ONE serve. If you miss it, you lose the point. That will make you get a consistent serve that you can trust. Its great because you can rely on that drill if you are just going for high percentage 1st serves, or for clutch 2nd serves. IMHO alot of service games are lost mentally at the rec level and if you over train, what a luxury it will be to have TWO serves!
Sadly I just have flat, slice and kick. the kick usually jumps to a righties backhand. That is the go to serve because it rarely misses and has enough junk spin to be tricky. Its slow mostly but spinny. I CAN speed it up but its not a must. I sneak in the flat heater after a few games of slow spinny serves. Very good chance that will be an ace if I can get it in.
crash1929
Hall of Fame
Thanks- It's been a fun journey. There aren't many good players out here so practicing serve was a default and then it became fun. I don't swing all out though most of the time because I'd kill my arm.What I did was focus on good smooth contact.
Btw- I once asked roger federer if the best way to improve was to play people better than you- and he responded that the best way to improve is to find a good coach.
I've said many times before that if you're gonna practice a lot, it's best to get a coach so you don't ingrain bad techniques. This is a no brainer, esp. if you want to be good.
It was interesting watching the women practice today at Stanford. Madison's coach was telling her to turn her torso on volleys, and to pay attention to her footwork. I'm not sure what he was saying exactly, something about shuffle steps or cross over steps?
I guess your coach already pointed out some of your mistakes. I was gonna say to pay attention to your ball toss, esp. for spin serves. The standard advice is the ball should be landing on top of your head. I find there is some leeway of a few inches, but you don't want the ball to stray too much from that. If your toss is a foot into the court, then it's just too forward and you won't be able hit up on it. If it's too far to the right, then you'll end up putting more slice on it than top. Even if you have a decent ball toss, there's way more issues like contact point and swing path.
pfrischmann
Professional
There are a lot of components to look at but the few things I would add is: It all starts with a good consistent toss. If the toss is off, everything after it is compromised. If you know where your toss is supposed to be, practice until it's perfect. You are only as good as your second serve. I've found this to be so true. I would focus on a good 2nd serve and even use that as your 1st for a while. Someone mentioned playing a game where you only get 1 serve. Whenever I do this my 2nd serve gets a lot better. I use a Topspin serve as my 2nd. It tends to be easier to keep it in the box. and if done well, your opponent shouldn't be able to do much with it. I call it a kick serve if I add a component to make the ball move left or right as well.
A good "kick" serve chest high or higher to the back hand is hard to return for most rec players. If you can move it around or change the way it kicks...you can do a lot of good things.
A good "kick" serve chest high or higher to the back hand is hard to return for most rec players. If you can move it around or change the way it kicks...you can do a lot of good things.
men8ifr
Semi-Pro
Agreed I need to work on the toss a lot. I'm thinking of doing 50-100 throws before starting my serving practice and then throw 2-3 times before hitting each ball. Also I need to work on not hitting the ball when the throw is bad.
I used my second serve (slice) as 1st and 2nd for 4 months or so but lost my ability to hit flat 1st serves.
men8ifr
Semi-Pro
I played last night doubles with 3 good players (better than me) and also singles against a guy quite a lot better than me. I started trying to put pace on the spin serves for a 1st serve but got zero free points and some winning returns. My 2nd serve was Ok maybe 90% in but slow.
I started hitting flat 1st serves and they were not too bad and getting some free points and weak returns maybe 40-50% in which I was surprised at so I don't know where that came from? Maybe the coaching on feet position really helped.
My problems are still I will usually loose my 1st service game, almost like I'm not fully warmed up which usually costs the set. Secondly I went through a period of double faults in the middle of the games so the 2nd serve is not as reliable as it needs to be yet.
I started hitting flat 1st serves and they were not too bad and getting some free points and weak returns maybe 40-50% in which I was surprised at so I don't know where that came from? Maybe the coaching on feet position really helped.
My problems are still I will usually loose my 1st service game, almost like I'm not fully warmed up which usually costs the set. Secondly I went through a period of double faults in the middle of the games so the 2nd serve is not as reliable as it needs to be yet.
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
Flat first serves travel fast and are difficult to return. But you need to rely on your 2nd serve to go for your 1st serves. I recommend focusing on hitting the 2nd serve higher above the net. Slowly, you get a better sense of the range of the shot, you can control its depth, plus it's better to have the occational DF for hitting long, rather than into the net.
pfrischmann
Professional
That feeling of getting free points is very addicting! You should notice a big difference in terms of holding games. I'm a big believer in having an aggressive first serve and not just wasting it with two kick serves. Hopefully a light bulb went off in your head and you see it's possible to have a flat serve with a decent percentage instead of believing the naysayers. You just gotta practice and you can get that percentage higher!
If you have nerves, then that could be an issue (for losing 1st serve game). Otherwise, the cure is to practice more. Try practicing 3 or 4 days in a row. Notice if you serve better on the last day. Then another week, practice 3 times randomly thru the week, like M, W, Su. See if you notice a difference between the 2 practice styles. Hopefully another light bulb will go off in your head in terms of how to use this.
men8ifr
Semi-Pro
Practiced yesterday and was serving badly. Played some doubles and served badly as well as played badly. I guess it was an off day? There's a small mixed tournament on today but I will give it a miss as I was playing so badly I would feel sorry for whoever I paired with!
I may go and practice some serves later in the day though.
I may go and practice some serves later in the day though.
LakeSnake
Professional
Love it--so true, Lee!
LakeSnake
Professional
FWIW, my coach had me concentrate on the kick serve first, and only later did he encourage me to start working on the flats. I still don't actually know how to hit a flat serve.
Enga
Hall of Fame
About the toss: its very true what some posters here say. Its so i portant to have a good toss. I sometimes sit in my room just tossing the ball up to help my muscle memory, especially if I take a week off from tennis. There are times I've noticed my consistency dip real badly, and my toss was all over the place. Since putting this extra emphasis on the toss, my consistency has improved. That said, if you play often and dont seem to have consistency issues, I suppose it wont be as important for you.
men8ifr
Semi-Pro
Just an update I've been playing quite a lot sat Mon tue and will play today wed thu and have a lesson on Friday and will probably play sat and sun. Some singles some doubles. I've hurt my shoulder a bit though feels like mild tendons or internal muscles. Played ok yesterday though and doesn't seem worse today but I have stopped practicing the serve though for a bit until it improves.
I think the problem is either throwing the ball too far forward on flat serves and straining too much to hit it or not following through on the left side instead abruptly stopping the racquet before it hits my legs. I don't have the problem with the slice serve.
I think the problem is either throwing the ball too far forward on flat serves and straining too much to hit it or not following through on the left side instead abruptly stopping the racquet before it hits my legs. I don't have the problem with the slice serve.
