Hybrids: Multi / CoPoly vs. Multi / Multi ?

[JackB1]

I have been experimenting with a hybrid of a multi in the mains (Pacific PMX, NRG2 or Maxim Touch) and a Co-Poly (Pacific Poly Power Pr or Hyperion) in the crosses and was wondering what the benefits are of this setup? I don't seem to notice much difference compared to full multi. I don't hit with a lot of topspin and play a lower arcing flatter ball. Should I try the copoly in the mains or just go back to full multi?

Is the main reason for hybriding a multi with a copoly cross for durabilty? If that's the case, it won't effect me much because I am not a string breaker.
Or is it to lesses the power of the multi some? If that's the case, couldn't I just up the tension a little on the full multi setup? Even though I do hit semi-flat, there are times I benefit from more spin, like slice-backhands, slice serves and drop shots.

Any advice would be great. I am getting a little confused as to what is the optimum setup for me? I play an "all court" type of game combining baseline rallies with touch shots and volleys.

 

[fantom]

Do the mains stay in place when using poly crosses? This may be the biggest benefit of this configuration. The crosses don't affect the feel as much as the mains.

 

[Kevo]

I don't think there is much benefit to poly for most people who aren't string breakers.

Some people talk about spin generation, but if you were hitting with a lot of spin then you'd be breaking strings. Sometimes when I'm just hitting around with friends I don't hit a ton of spin like I might in a more competitive situation. I can have a set of strings last a month with that type of hitting.

When I'm practicing seriously with someone or hitting with the ball machine I'm lucky if I can go 10 days. The last time I used multis or syn guts I was getting less than a week at times. I'm sure it would be down to hours now since that was over 2 years ago.

Let me clear up a misconception about spin. String type makes very little difference. In fact, equipment in general makes only a small difference. What matters most is that you like the way your equipment plays.

What you want in a string is something that feels good when you hit and something that lasts reasonably well so you don't go broke. Beyond that, everything else is pretty much about the way you play.

If you like the full multi and are happy with the cost and how often you are restringing, then stick with it. There's nothing wrong with experimenting, but don't expect a string to give you something that's going to make you play better.

 

[JackB1]

Do the mains stay in place when using poly crosses? This may be the biggest benefit of this configuration. The crosses don't affect the feel as much as the mains.

Would a syn gut in the crosses accomplish the same? Also, stringing a stiffer string in the crosses makes stringing a lot easier when dealing with blocked holes and such.

 

[fantom]

Would a syn gut in the crosses accomplish the same? Also, stringing a stiffer string in the crosses makes stringing a lot easier when dealing with blocked holes and such.

I doubt it. I don't know of any string that is as slick as a poly. Stiff strings are nice for blocked holes.

 

[fgs]

as opposed to you, i hit with heavy topspin. it's not that i wasn't able to generate enough topspin with multis (have been a long time user of nxt tour 17), but i never got more than about 5 hitting hours out of a string, which started to come in quite costly (as my son's growing up and starting to break strings as well).
the major reason why i switched to co-poly mains and multi crosses was durability. my long-time setup of kirschbaum competition 1.20 mains and wilson sensation 1.25 crosses moved me up to about 8 hitting hours, which is almost double the time i got out of nxt tour fullbed.
being much stiffer, the co-poly basically gives you a little bit more control and spin and depending on the set-up, tension and racquet you will be able to keep the power level. you will certainly lose some in the "touch" department. due to the somewhat better control and spin, you are able with a co-poly to play steeper angles on crosscourt shots.
since you are a flathitter and don't have durability issues, a co-poly wouldn't bring you any benefits. co-polys, as opposed to most multis, do "die" pretty quick. within my new time frame i've basically found only three co-polys so far which don't die during those approx. 8 hitting hours, so if your time frame for a string set-up is longer, you'd end up playing with a "dead" string, which is not a very good thing to do.
another point would be cost: for the price of an acceptable multi you get a good or even very good co-poly. but this assessment is relative to your timeframe, because there's again no benefit in playing weeks with a dead string just in order to save some money. this reasoning is only valid for stringbreakers who don't go beyond the playability-span of a co-poly. i've played co-polys, even quite pricy ones, which gave up after three hours, so while those three hours have truly been excellent, the other 5-6 until the string broke have been a complete disaster.
you have to figure out what it is you'd like to change in your current set-up and than try to find the proper combination to suit your needs. but the way you described you style of play, co-polys wouldn't help you very much if at all.

 

[GameSetMatch]

If you play a flatter game, having a poly in there isn't going to make a hugely noticeable difference BUT nobody plays a completely flat game - not even you.

For example, you receive a short ball, you can hit a cross court short angled forehand over the net - a poly in the mains will help you bring it up and over the highest part of the net at pace. With the multi you just won't be able to hit the same shot with the same pace or spin. It will either be flying long or you would have had to take the pace off the shot to keep to it in (giving your opponent more time to reach the ball) or you wouldn't have chosen that shot in the first place with the multi.

The other main benefit of a poly is the much more instant response off the stringbed. You give your opponent just that fraction of second less in which to react. That's an advantage in competitive play. Going to a soft multi after a poly can feel like you're waiting an eternity for the ball to come off the stringbed. The advantage of a full multi though is that you obviously have a more forgiving stringbed.

 

[JackB1]

^^^^^^

great response and exactly what I was looking for. thanks!

 

[Kevo]

For example, you receive a short ball, you can hit a cross court short angled forehand over the net - a poly in the mains will help you bring it up and over the highest part of the net at pace. With the multi you just won't be able to hit the same shot with the same pace or spin.

...

The other main benefit of a poly is the much more instant response off the stringbed. You give your opponent just that fraction of second less in which to react. That's an advantage in competitive play. Going to a soft multi after a poly can feel like you're waiting an eternity for the ball to come off the stringbed.

I'd disagree with these two statements. First of all, the difference in dwell between a poly and multi is probably 1-2ms max. It may feel much different, but in reality it's not that different. Having said that, I do place a high priority on feel, so it comes down to a personal choice based on feel IMO.

Second, you can hit that loopy crosscourt shot with any string. It will be a little different with one string versus another, but it is done by people with all different kinds of strings and frames. I've hit those shots with a wood frame strung at 50lbs. with a multi.

Don't let ideas about what can be done with this string, that frame, or those shoes get in the way of your best tennis. I'm sure Nadal playing barefoot on hot pavement with a junior frame strung at 30lbs. would probably beat 95% or more of the players on this board. And he would probably complain a lot less about it than most players as well.

 

[GameSetMatch]

I'd disagree with these two statements.

Feel free to disagree - it is after all a free country. However, the fact is that a poly does provide a much more instantaneous response off the stringbed and greater access to spin - factors that will provide a competitive advantage the higher the level that you play at.

 

[Kevo]

Feel free to disagree - it is after all a free country. However, the fact is that a poly does provide a much more instantaneous response off the stringbed and greater access to spin - factors that will provide a competitive advantage the higher the level that you play at.

Well, you label it as fact as if somehow you can prove it. Your statement doesn't really make that much sense. Maybe you could define "instantaneous response" off the stringbed and "access to spin".

There are a lot of terms thrown around on the boards that IMO are just confusing and non-sensical.

If you want some actual data, try here.
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/reporter.php

Just be sure to put the data in context as these are tests of individual strings and not actual racquet impacts. It does however give some insight into the specific differences between individual strings and string types.

In any event, tennis is basically an individual sport. I don't think there's anything wrong with picking a string based on what you believe it does for you. After all, you're the only one that can feel what you feel when you hit the ball. However when it comes to actual results and "fact" you need something to back up your assertions not just your own beliefs based on what you feel.

 

[GameSetMatch]

Can you say that again - this time in English?

 

[smooveken]

Here's my take on all this.

I am a pretty flat hitter, with a modified semi-western (its in between an eastern and a semi-western grip). I, too, thought Poly would not benefit my hitting style, so I stuck with a full bed of multi. Multi's are very powerful and my shots were going out a lot when I do full swings due to the fact that my trajectory is flat. I find myself being more careful of my shots and dont swing too full. Stringing tighter was not an option because I like soft/mushy stringbeds. Now, when I use Poly, my hits are less powerful so I take full swings without any care. Because of the full/faster swing, I generate more spin than I would with a multi, therefore my ball trajectory dips down and keeps my balls in the court.

I dont know, people keep saying that a flater hitter will not benefit from poly in the sense of "durability" because flat hitters aren't string breakers and therefore can play with multi. Well in my honest opinion, Poly actually helped me GET spin and made my game much more consistant.

 

[JackB1]

Here's my take on all this.

I am a pretty flat hitter, with a modified semi-western (its in between an eastern and a semi-western grip). I, too, thought Poly would not benefit my hitting style, so I stuck with a full bed of multi. Multi's are very powerful and my shots were going out a lot when I do full swings due to the fact that my trajectory is flat. I find myself being more careful of my shots and dont swing too full. Stringing tighter was not an option because I like soft/mushy stringbeds. Now, when I use Poly, my hits are less powerful so I take full swings without any care. Because of the full/faster swing, I generate more spin than I would with a multi, therefore my ball trajectory dips down and keeps my balls in the court.

I dont know, people keep saying that a flater hitter will not benefit from poly in the sense of "durability" because flat hitters aren't string breakers and therefore can play with multi. Well in my honest opinion, Poly actually helped me GET spin and made my game much more consistant.

To be honest, this concept confuses me as well. You would think that as a "flat hitter" you would want more "help" from your string and this would mean you would benefit more from poly. Unless you want your shots to be "more flat" and I don't know why that would be a desired outcome. I don't know anyone that hits a purely FLAT ball that has almost no spin or why would you want to? I could see if u already hit with plenty of spin and have trouble "flattening" them out from time to time...maybe you would want a less "spinny" string.

 

[0d1n]

In my experience multi mains with poly crosses is actually LESS, not more durable than full multi.
Usually the crosses will cut through the mains much faster than they would in a full multi string bed.
The benefits could be less trampoline effect (less string deflection), and more control as a result...but more durability will not be one of the benefits.

 

[smooveken]

To be honest, this concept confuses me as well. You would think that as a "flat hitter" you would want more "help" from your string and this would mean you would benefit more from poly. Unless you want your shots to be "more flat" and I don't know why that would be a desired outcome. I don't know anyone that hits a purely FLAT ball that has almost no spin or why would you want to? I could see if u already hit with plenty of spin and have trouble "flattening" them out from time to time...maybe you would want a less "spinny" string.

dude exactly! I keep telling everyone that I'm a relatively flat hitter and need help with "some" spin. I just cant change my grip to a western and start swinging a windshield wiper forehand. It doesn't feel natural to me. I find that Head Light, Heavy, and low powered poly allowed me to swing harder and faster, which equated to more spin!

My next big question is whether I can have a poly main and syn gut cross instead of a multi in the cross... they seem to feel the same but I need a little more testing.

 

[JackB1]

dude exactly! I keep telling everyone that I'm a relatively flat hitter and need help with "some" spin. I just cant change my grip to a western and start swinging a windshield wiper forehand. It doesn't feel natural to me. I find that Head Light, Heavy, and low powered poly allowed me to swing harder and faster, which equated to more spin!

My next big question is whether I can have a poly main and syn gut cross instead of a multi in the cross... they seem to feel the same but I need a little more testing.

I have been doing multi mains/copoly cross, but I should try out the opposite to see how that goes. What brands of poly and multi's have u been using?
I would guess syngut crosses will be a LITTLE less soft feeling than multi crosses, but if u dont have any elbow issues, shouldn't be a factor.

 

[smooveken]

I have been doing multi mains/copoly cross, but I should try out the opposite to see how that goes. What brands of poly and multi's have u been using?
I would guess syngut crosses will be a LITTLE less soft feeling than multi crosses, but if u dont have any elbow issues, shouldn't be a factor.

Well lately i've been experimenting with Head Sonic Pro in the mains and Head fxp power in the crosses. Pretty soft I would say. What kind of racquet are you using? I have a PSL and its a small head size (95 sq in) so I already get a lot of feel from this frame, I dont need the extra feel that a multi gives me.

 

[JackB1]

Well lately i've been experimenting with Head Sonic Pro in the mains and Head fxp power in the crosses. Pretty soft I would say. What kind of racquet are you using? I have a PSL and its a small head size (95 sq in) so I already get a lot of feel from this frame, I dont need the extra feel that a multi gives me.

Sonic Pro is soft, but is supposed to lose tension quick and not be so durable.
I have a Dunlop 4D 300 Tour & a Pacific XForce Pro...both similar 98" control oriented frames. I currently am playing with NRG2 in the mains and Hyperion in the crosses. I will try the co-poly in the mains next and see how that goes. I like a soft, cushiony, "pockety" feel.

 

[fgs]

for a soft, cushiony, pockety feel try mantis power polyester in the mains and mantis comfort synthetic in the crosses.

 

[smooveken]

Sonic Pro is soft, but is supposed to lose tension quick and not be so durable.
I have a Dunlop 4D 300 Tour & a Pacific XForce Pro...both similar 98" control oriented frames. I currently am playing with NRG2 in the mains and Hyperion in the crosses. I will try the co-poly in the mains next and see how that goes. I like a soft, cushiony, "pockety" feel.

Hey so check this out: I have used a full bed of NRG2 in my racquet. Very soft but i dont know if its because its nearing the end of its life, or if it was strung too tight (58 lbs which has probably dropped down to 55 or 56 by), but the harder I swing... the more firm the bed gets. I personally dont like that kind of feedback, i guess some would call it "crisp". With the sonic pro and fxp, no matter how hard I swing, i get that same soft, pocketing feel.

 

[JackB1]

Hey so check this out: I have used a full bed of NRG2 in my racquet. Very soft but i dont know if its because its nearing the end of its life, or if it was strung too tight (58 lbs which has probably dropped down to 55 or 56 by), but the harder I swing... the more firm the bed gets. I personally dont like that kind of feedback, i guess some would call it "crisp". With the sonic pro and fxp, no matter how hard I swing, i get that same soft, pocketing feel.

Not sure about that. I have also used a full bed of NRG2 and it always felt soft. Could be too tight. Tension plays a large role in the way the ball's impact feels. I like to feel a light pocketing effect (small rebound) when I swing a little harder than medium speed.