I am about done with USTA

[SunDog]

I've been a loyal USTA player since 2002. I play in every league my CTA offers. I captain teams, and presently serve as the VP of the local CTA. I am what you would call "involved."

I was verified as a 3.0 prior to the 2002 season - when I was trying my hardest to get a 3.5 rating - but failed to do so. I played up a division every year until the computer finally made me a 4.0 at the end of 2005. I have advanced as far as Sectionals three times (regular league 3.5, combo 6.5 and mixed 7.0). I have come across numerous players that really had no business playing at the level that the USTA was allowing them to play - but I never saw too many cases that were beyond a reasonable shadow of a doubt, open and shut, clear cut, etc.

While I've always been baffled by the sandbagging - I always gave the USTA the benefit of the doubt that in the case of a really egregious sandbagging attempt, that the powers that be would do the right thing and sanction all the appropriate parties.

Boy was I wrong - and now I am just about done with USTA.

This year, one of our local captains in the mixed leagues had a 7.0 team and an 8.0 team. He signed up a new (to USTA) male player as a 3.5 on both teams. As soon as anyone adds a player that no one knows - all the TennisLink prowlers google the name. This particular player ended up being around 28 years old who was the captain of his DI college team and had many well documented tennis successes as a top junior, etc. One of the captains filed a grievance. The Section bumped the guy from the self (captain) rated level of 3.5 to his appropriate level of 5.5 and the captain who obviously lied while doing the self rating for this guy got ...........




............. absolutely no punishment. Case closed.

If this captain doesn't get sanctioned for self rating abuse, then I can't imagine who would. It is open season for sandbagging in the Southern Section. You have absolutely nothing to lose (I assume that anyone who would participate in this kind of shennanigan waved bye bye to their dignity a long time ago).

The local coordinator asked the Section if they were sure that there would be no sanction against the offending captain - and they confirmed that there would be none. IMO both players should be out for at least a year - if not more.

Of course it is possible that I dont know the entire story - but the coordinator (a pretty good friend of mine) seemed to be in tune with the whole grievence process - and I got all my info from him.

Anyway - I decided to start my own league. I sent out one email - and word spread like wild fire. Everyone is excited and play begins in about two weeks. I have players from 3.0 to 4.5 signed up to play. I am not advocating a full scale USTA rebellion - but this camel's back is about broken. If my league ends up being a success - then I can't see me renewing my USTA membership when it expires in a couple years.

Good luck to the rest of you.

 

[Steady Eddy]

I don't get it. Why would a D1 former college player want to play at 3.5? Does he want people to think he's only a 3.5 player? Even though he could win there, it would still hurt his tennis reputation more than it would build it. Weird.

 

[Mike Cottrill]

I just do not understand why an ex D1 player would waste his time driving all over town to play 3.5 matches. Captains walk courts looking for players that do not have ratings that are clearly rated higher than their team. Seen it happen to many times.

See this and the warnings. Note the bottom of the doc.
http://dps.usta.com/usta_master/newengland/doc/content/doc_17_219.pdf?6/29/2005%207:38:44%20PM

Sundog,
I guess the USTA does not stand behind their warnings. They do not even follow their own guidelines. Look at this. This guy had ATP points last year and has USTA tournament rating of 5.5.
http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/playerprofiles/?playernumber=D420

 

[dancraig]

Around here, it seems like almost everyone is playing as low as possilbe. People will even lay out a couple of years to avoid being bumped up.

 

[pr0n8r]

Play for the experience. If I get to play against a D1 college level player, I'm pretty happy about the opportunity. Don't value winning the league as much as you value enjoying the competition.

We have sandbaggers, guys that should be playing 4.5 or 5.0, who play 4.0. I enjoy that they are in my league. Without them there, I'm a high 4.0, and I'd probably be one of the best players. I also wouldn't get very many good matches.

Play for the competition, and to improve. If you get to play against a great player, appreciate the opportunity. I have to pay $50 an hour to hit with a D1 college level player around here. I relish the opportunity to get that for league costs.

Punishing captains isn't the way to go.

 

[SunDog]

Play for the experience. If I get to play against a D1 college level player, I'm pretty happy about the opportunity. Don't value winning the league as much as you value enjoying the competition.

We have sandbaggers, guys that should be playing 4.5 or 5.0, who play 4.0. I enjoy that they are in my league. Without them there, I'm a high 4.0, and I'd probably be one of the best players. I also wouldn't get very many good matches.

Play for the competition, and to improve. If you get to play against a great player, appreciate the opportunity. I have to pay $50 an hour to hit with a D1 college level player around here. I relish the opportunity to get that for league costs.

Punishing captains isn't the way to go.

There is a time and a place for everyting. A 7.0 mixed doubles match is not the time or place for an elite hitting session. This guy would have been on the court (with a 3.5 female partner) potentially playing against 3.0 females (like my newly bumped up wife) who payed to play against other 7.0 teams. That would be 9.0 vs 7.0. In reality he could have played one on two for most points and won out right.

Those folks (like yourself - I would guess - and me when I was on my way up) looking to play tougher competition are free to play up a division (though that poses the problem that the folks at the higher levels are getting ripped off by having to play lesser competition).

The USTA takes players' money in exchange for providing a chance at a fair competition. In my opinion, they are not living up to their end of the bargain. Personnally - I dont give a rat's rear end about winning or losing - I have done both. I have a hardspot with fairness though. If the USTA can't or won't provide a fair competition, I am capable of finding my own and assisting others in doing the same.

 

[JLyon]

Southern is not the best at policing the slef-rates, hence the LA 4.5 team going to Nationals has several former LSU players and other former younger D1 players who by guidelines should be 5.0+, but hey whatever I guess.

 

[10esplr]

Why would anyone play so much lower to just win? I don't get it.

I played a young lady this weekend in the WTT and she crushed me right and left. I'm a 3.0. Her shuts, and level of confidence on the courts are not at the 3.0 level. Before the match, I heard someone on my team say that she was bumped up to 3.5, appealed it and it was granted.

So after the match, I congratulated her and told her that she should really be 3.5 and told her that I hope she wouldn't appeal it

Why would anyone want to stagnate in a level and not have the opportunity to get a better rating and compete at a higher lever? I don't know other than some strange (selfish) reason.

I play tennis for fun and would be happy to get a higher rankin if the USTA or I think it's time.

 

[raiden031]

Why would anyone play so much lower to just win? I don't get it.

I played a young lady this weekend in the WTT and she crushed me right and left. I'm a 3.0. Her shuts, and level of confidence on the courts are not at the 3.0 level. Before the match, I heard someone on my team say that she was bumped up to 3.5, appealed it and it was granted.

So after the match, I congratulated her and told her that she should really be 3.5 and told her that I hope she wouldn't appeal it

Why would anyone want to stagnate in a level and not have the opportunity to get a better rating and compete at a higher lever? I don't know other than some strange (selfish) reason.

I play tennis for fun and would be happy to get a higher rankin if the USTA or I think it's time.

Maybe she is a nobody at 3.5. It could be that she doesn't know how to win at 3.5 and doesn't have the time to spend alot of time practicing and improving. I used to wonder why someone would want to play at a lower level, because I want to reach the open level of play eventually, but I learned from talking to lots of people that most people do not share the same goals as me. Everyone seeks to get something different out of tennis. I don't think its a big deal when a 3.5 plays 3.0 or a 4.0 plays 3.5. Its when a 4.5 plays 3.0 or D1 player plays 3.5 that it is rediculous.

 

[DANMAN]

Southern is not the best at policing the slef-rates, hence the LA 4.5 team going to Nationals has several former LSU players and other former younger D1 players who by guidelines should be 5.0+, but hey whatever I guess.

No one on the team is an ex-LSU player. All players are computer rated. I agree that there are players who should be 5.0, but there was no cheating.

 

[Xardian]

Hey SunDog, I am in the Southern Section too and have recently quit playing USTA tennis for the very reasons you discussed. Where is your league located? If its near by I'd be very interested in joining.

 

[JLyon]

No one on the team is an ex-LSU player. All players are computer rated. I agree that there are players who should be 5.0, but there was no cheating.

Ex-LSU is stretch but you have Bobby Hawkins who played at ULL then somehow self-rated as a 4.0. Should have been bumped to 5.5, but Southern only moved him to 4.5, he goes undefeated at Sectionals.

In Texas you have a current Lamar U. player on a 4.5 team, they have a fomrer Tulane player playing 4.5, yes they are computer players, but it also shows they lied on their self-rates as they are all under the age of 30 y.o. This is what ruins league tennis. Another example a current TAMU-CC signee slef-rated at 4.5. When you have current JUCO players self-rating at 3.5, this ruins the system. Is it sour grapes? Some might say, but it also is just trying to follow the rules.

 

[DANMAN]

Ex-LSU is stretch but you have Bobby Hawkins who played at ULL then somehow self-rated as a 4.0. Should have been bumped to 5.5, but Southern only moved him to 4.5, he goes undefeated at Sectionals.

In Texas you have a current Lamar U. player on a 4.5 team, they have a fomrer Tulane player playing 4.5, yes they are computer players, but it also shows they lied on their self-rates as they are all under the age of 30 y.o. This is what ruins league tennis. Another example a current TAMU-CC signee slef-rated at 4.5. When you have current JUCO players self-rating at 3.5, this ruins the system. Is it sour grapes? Some might say, but it also is just trying to follow the rules.

I played high school with the guy from Tulane. He went undefeated at Texas sectionals but look at what he did at sectionals at 4.5 two years ago where he went 2-2. He was on the roster as a walk on for one year, never played a match, then the program was disbanded after Katrina. I agree there are plenty of guys on this year's LA team that should be bumped after the year is over. This is where the rating system is a joke though...because noone cheated to get any of these guys on the 4.5 team. Many were bumped down from 5.0 a couple years ago when tournaments counted toward final ratings. I'm assuming you played for AR...how about LA's 4.0 rated player...what a joke.

 

[DANMAN]

Also, what about that singles guy from Mississippi...he was pretty strong as well and is about to play college ball.

 

[JLyon]

Also, what about that singles guy from Mississippi...he was pretty strong as well and is about to play college ball.

I am not arguing at all. the ratings have become a joke. I look at the AL 4.5 team and their singles player who played #1 at UA-Huntsville.

I heard about the MS player but could not find any info on him. Where will he be going for college?
My team did not make it out of AR, I am not a very good captain
The 4.0 teams from LA the last 2 years have been suspect.

 

[marcl65]

I've got a good one. There was a team in a different playoff flight with only 1 or 2 computer rated players on the roster. Everyone else was self-rated. A couple were rated 4.0 6+ years ago. The rest were once rated 3.5, went to sectionals, then didn't play for 4+ years and were allowed to self-rate. Now, big surprise, they won their flight and are heading to sections. I can deal with a team that has one or two sandbaggers but this is ridiculous.

I talked to one of other flight's captains and he said this is this club's modus operandi. Sign up, self-rate and play until they get bumped up, then quit league until they can come back and self-rate. He said the league basically just shrugs their shoulders when he complains.

 

[DANMAN]

I am not arguing at all. the ratings have become a joke. I look at the AL 4.5 team and their singles player who played #1 at UA-Huntsville.

I heard about the MS player but could not find any info on him. Where will he be going for college?
My team did not make it out of AR, I am not a very good captain
The 4.0 teams from LA the last 2 years have been suspect.

I played on the 4.0 LA team that went to and won nationals 3 years ago. That was a joke of a team as well, but I've seen much worse in terms of college players. I thought we were going to run through the 4.5 sectionals this year, but obviously you need horses to lean on. Three of us went undefeated, making it possible to win the thing. Some of the matches went 3-2, including the final. I've been to sectionals the past 3 years at 4.5 and haven't gotten the bump yet, which I personally think is crazy. I have wanted to make 5.0 as a goal of mine and should make it this year after my sectional performance.

I played the MS player and people were talking about how he should be 5.5. I had him 6-2, 3-1 (and a point from 4-1) which was 2 breaks. He hit a big, nasty ball and had a ton on his serve. I just played him smart and didn't give him balls in his zone. I think he should be 5.0. He is going to play at a small college. Apparently he had a bad temper and laid off tennis for a year or so to cool down and has just been playing again for 6 months. He will try to transfer to a big D1 school after he establishes himself at the collegiate level.

I think the moral of the story is that everyone out there is good and every team is going to have its studs...it's just a matter of who has the better studs. All the other courts are going to be solid. No gimmes at sectionals.

 

[JLyon]

I played on the 4.0 LA team that went to and won nationals 3 years ago. That was a joke of a team as well, but I've seen much worse in terms of college players. I thought we were going to run through the 4.5 sectionals this year, but obviously you need horses to lean on. Three of us went undefeated, making it possible to win the thing. Some of the matches went 3-2, including the final. I've been to sectionals the past 3 years at 4.5 and haven't gotten the bump yet, which I personally think is crazy. I have wanted to make 5.0 as a goal of mine and should make it this year after my sectional performance.

I played the MS player and people were talking about how he should be 5.5. I had him 6-2, 3-1 (and a point from 4-1) which was 2 breaks. He hit a big, nasty ball and had a ton on his serve. I just played him smart and didn't give him balls in his zone. I think he should be 5.0. He is going to play at a small college. Apparently he had a bad temper and laid off tennis for a year or so to cool down and has just been playing again for 6 months. He will try to transfer to a big D1 school after he establishes himself at the collegiate level.

I think the moral of the story is that everyone out there is good and every team is going to have its studs...it's just a matter of who has the better studs. All the other courts are going to be solid. No gimmes at sectionals.

very cool. Excited we just got a new Director of Tennis at Burns Park, he is coming from Lafayette, Gus Rivera (Sp??).

Good luck at Nationals.

 

[JLyon]

Also, what about that singles guy from Mississippi...he was pretty strong as well and is about to play college ball.

What happened with "Michael Dessauer" was he a victim of a Dynamic DQ or protest? Looks like he had a heck of a match against Chris Jones (AR)
You can PM if you would like.

 

[SunDog]

Hey SunDog, I am in the Southern Section too and have recently quit playing USTA tennis for the very reasons you discussed. Where is your league located? If its near by I'd be very interested in joining.

Its in Tennessee.

 

[Xardian]

Darn, I'm in Huntsville. Oh well, good luck with your league, I hope it works out.

 

[fed1]

New England, especially Eastern Massachusetts is just as bad. Its the running joke that the best team doesn't win its the team that cheats the best wins. Many college kids playing in the 4.0 division. Nobody monitoring the situation.

 

[SunDog]

Update:

With just a little effort - our new non-usta league got 19 doubles teams signed up for play. We are starting next week on an 8 week trial basis.

A singles set up will soon follow.