If Barry Bonds played tennis, how good would he be?
- Thread starter LetWinner
- Start date
Benf15harp3000
Semi-Pro
Plus a lefty.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Never seen the skinny prototype. Forgive my ignorance.
Winners or Errors
Legend
Hmm, stats before juicing not as good as Aaron. Not even close actually.
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TennisManiac
Hall of Fame
This thread is a joke right?
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
GOAT returner
kevin qmto
Hall of Fame
Maybe due to my age im only used to seeing late career bonds, but that man was not very fast. And good luck on changing directions.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
He's definitely not fast or agile enough for today's game. But young Bonds stole more than enough bags to be fast enough to play in the late 80s and through the 90s, which is when most of his hypothetical tennis career would've been.
Bonds would PISTOLWHIP the PETE second serve
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
accidental
Hall of Fame
Head way too big. He would be too slow covering the court lugging around that pumpkin
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
He outplayed Griffey by every single metric in the 90s and put up 10 Mike Trout/Willie Mays-esque seasons before the roids lol
TheFifthSet
Legend
‘Not even close’ is a smidge too far, but Aaron did indeed have better value stats up to their age-34 years, believe he had about 15 WAR on Bonds. With era adjustments Bond might close the gap but nothing illogical about picking Hammerin’ Hank; similar on-field production while being a much less disruptive teammate.
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Sampras-Bruguera 1993
Legend
jeesh I can smell his gynecomastia from here. He was as big as a tank in SF
skinny bonds Would be deadly at tennis. Roided up bonds yea way too big for tennis. The racket and strings would be breaking every 20 seconds
TheFifthSet
Legend
Trout is straight up better now than Bonds was at the same age, despite losing 2/3rd’s of a season to COVID (Bonds missed out on extra games due to the ‘94 lockout/‘95 shortened season, but not as many)…heck give Bonds an extra year and Trout is still marginally better. He won’t maintain his form like Bonds did but peak-for-(clean-ish)-peak…he’s as good or better. Supraphysiological dope-specimen Bonds from 01-04 deffo has the best peak in baseball history, though.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
I dont know man. Look at some of Ted Williams years. One year he led in games played, plate appearances, runs scored, doubles, Hrs, RBIs, base on balls, OBP, and SLG.
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
I don't really get deep into the OPS+ WRC stuff but I'm pretty sure Bonds was the best hitter of his era (late 80s-00s) by some distance, even season-by-season. That has to count for something, if you're better than everyone else over a decade-long span.
He already had records for HR/SBs and even intentional walks before the roids too (in 98, perhaps he was doping earlier)
I do wish Trout or someone of his calibre went full Clinic like Bonds did though. Just to see the carnage with today's analytics and approach to hitting. Perhaps Judge is doing that at the moment, idk.
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
The only skip on Graduation lol
TheFifthSet
Legend
No one tops what Bonds did as a hitter from 01-04…his OPS+ was 256 over those four years. Williams’ highest in a single year was 235.
Relative to their eras it’s Ruth that’s comparable to Bonds as a hitter at their peaks, not Williams, though he comes right after him. I feel like TW gets bonus points for looking like a more complete/modern/‘purer’ hitter than Ruth and thus gets vaulted over The Bambino…my counter to that is if he really did have less weaknesses, why did he struggle so mightily against lefties while Ruth’s splits were balanced? Williams’ best years were mostly before the colour barrier was broken in the AL, and Ruth trounces him. Ruth actually had his last truly dominant year only 6 years before Williams emerged as a rookie phenom.
mental midget
Hall of Fame
for sure. in general i think a lot of the speedier, less naturally bulky baseball players would make great tennis players--great overall athletes, great hand-eye coordination...good physical prototype for our sport.
Man I will say Williams lost 3 of his prime years to the war. He hit .406 at 22 years old. And .388 at 38 years old. He easily hits over 600 hrs if not for the war. He had a .526 OBP at 38 years old. And the year I quoted you was after the color barrier came down.
He was probably one of the most physically gifted athletes I have ever seen. What he did with stolen bases which just wrecks your body is almost unbelievable.
TheFifthSet
Legend
Well with the post-roids bump he’s arguably the GOAT in terms of championship equity (as you so eloquently put it), but we’re talking before that no? Young Trout was just as good an athlete (slightly faster sprint speed, stronger arm, equal hand-eye, slightly more power) with just as/even better stats and created more separation between himself and the rest of the field.
And yeah it would be a sight to see. Sadly I can’t imagine any scenario where his health holds up like Barry’s did. He gets hurt every year now.
TheFifthSet
Legend
Well Williams is the second best hitter of all time and arguably a top 5 player ever so it’s no surprise that he’d manage these feats; but we’re comparing him to ‘01-‘04 Bonds. Taking personal revulsion out of the equation, no one matches his production as a hitter at his best. Williams never had a 3/4 year hitting peak as good as that, no one did.
(Goes w/o saying that chemical enhancement made it possible though, I’m under no illusion that a clean Bonds is a better natural hitter than TW.)
Also league quality in ‘57 wasn’t yet at the level it would later be at, see the demographics timeline:
The AL was still 90% white.
Well, but you are arguing a bonds on roids with a Ted Williams who was not. Bonds doesn’t do what he did in his 30’s not on roids. And again Ted lost 3 of his best years to ww2 . Williams maybe was not the athlete bonds was but he was a better hitter all things consideredWell Williams is the second best hitter of all time and arguably a top 5 player ever so it’s no surprise that he’d manage these feats; but we’re comparing him to ‘01-‘04 Bonds. Taking personal revulsion out of the equation, no one matches his production as a hitter at his best. Williams never had a 3/4 year hitting peak as good as that, no one did.
(Goes w/o saying that chemical enhancement made it possible though, I’m under no illusion that a clean Bonds is a better natural hitter than TW.)
Also league quality in ‘57 wasn’t yet at the level it would later be at, see the demographics timeline:
The AL was still 90% white.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
after age 33 season which is when Bonds started juicing the numbers were very close considering Bonds had played one fewer season.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
Poor man's Professor Ivo.
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
Trout is one of the most tragic figures in all of sports. Never has a player been so good and simultaneously so overlooked, it’s bizarre.
Williams BOAT
Ruth GOAT
Ty Cobb possible BOAT peak
Bonds achieved the highest level in human history, zero chance anyone ever touches 01-04
Ohtani possible highest peak WAR though
Pitchers are tougher bc of eras and ballparks but I’m pretty sure Pedro modern BOAT, Koufax/Gibson/Johnson all previous BOAT
Well he's on stinky teams. Someone tried to look up the other day if any team had the two best all around players in the game, and had a team that stunk so bad so much. And no one could find anything.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
Williams lost 5 years to war, 2 also in korea, he played 40 games those two years (hitting .400/.500/.900), not to mention the physical and mental toll serving and actually fighting in Korea took.
Oh crap you are 100 percent right. The guy goes over 700 hrs probably. Thanks. He is the best hitter ever. I dont care what anyone says.
TheFifthSet
Legend
Yes that’s why I rank Williams above Bonds as a player/hitter…I DO dock him for roids.
I dont know if he was a better player. I do know he was a better hitter. Bonds had a crap arm but my understanding is Williams didnt have much either. Bonds from what I understand a better fielder, and stole way more bases. But yea Ted was a better hitter.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
Ohtani is the most gifted player ever and he may not have even peaked yet. It's hard to say whether he gets that 11-12 WAR ceiling just on volume (and he loses close to a win due to DHing instead of playing RF to take it easy on the body), but a 7 WAR/5 WAR year is definitely well within the realm of possibility.
Mantle is probably the most gifted position player considering he played his entire peak with a bum knee, was basically an alcoholic, and put up back to back 11.5 WAR years despite that (with no wonky defensive numbers popping that up). Switch hitting center fielder is also sweet too.
The Splinter is my personal #1 though.
TheFifthSet
Legend
He’s got the charisma of a boulder and baseball doesn’t have the same grip on the American psyche that it once did. I would say he’s probably the natty BOAT, though clearly no GOAT (yet, and probably won’t ever be).
interesting that you include Gibby, good to see him get some recognition. He might’ve had the best one-year peak, though he never came close to matching ‘68.
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TheFifthSet
Legend
By better player I mean better career, not more well-rounded or what have you. With war credit given and roids credit deducted there’s no doubt Williams had the much better/greater career.
TheFifthSet
Legend
A sport like baseball is why I’m not so quick to write off Murray as an ATG. The 15th best baseball player since ‘68 (where I put Murray since the Open Era began) is probably someone like George Brett, Ripken or Bench. No baseball fan worth their salt would say they’re not ATG’s…alas, I know, it’s different in tennis…but just playing devils advocate here…
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optic yellow
Legend
Obviously skinny baseball purists' god Bonds.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
Obviously individual sports like tennis have higher standards.
Not that it matters. Murray is an "all-time great" by most definitions outside of this forum anyway. He'll be a first ballot hall of famer when he retires.
TheFifthSet
Legend
Good call on The Mick.
DiMaggio at his peak, while lacking in the numbers department, was up there too. Old Yankee Stadium was hell for righties but a haven for lefties…and since OPS+ doesn’t account for handedness, he gets the shaft statistically. Some might say he should’ve adjusted, but no righty could, Death Valley was THAT bad for them (I remember some crazy stat about DiMag hitting 27 home runs in ‘37 at OYS while all other righties on both teams COMBINED hit 20ish, in 3000 or so at-bats). I think he actually out-averaged and nearly out-slugged TW on the road, combine that with his immaculate fielding and great base-running he was probably the most complete player of his era (and unquestionably the most revered: Williams, Musial, Greenberg, Feller and all of the great players called him the best they’ve ever seen).
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