If Djoker ties YEC record ...

Which of these tie-breakers will prove to be most important?

  • Djoker's YEC H2H

    Votes: 4 11.4%

  • Fed's extra finals

    Votes: 11 31.4%

  • Fed's triple-double (Houston Outdoor x 2) (Shanghai Indoor x 2) (London Indoorx2)

    Votes: 3 8.6%

  • Fed's 5 x 5-0 title winning runs + record overall YEC match wins

    Votes: 8 22.9%

  • Djoker's 4 consecutive YECs

    Votes: 9 25.7%
  • Total voters
    35
M

mr tonyz

Professional
As per the poll options above ...

p.s . I didn't know what else to add in Djoker's favor apart from the H2H?

Fed seems to have most of the intangibles covered , Fed's also won 3 of his 6 YECs with B05 finals. But i thought that would be overkill.

Edit. Oh sheesh how could i have forgotton about Djoker's 4 consecutive YECs . Yikes!
 
Night Slasher

Night Slasher

Semi-Pro
If Nole wins, Rodja would still have a small edge over him due to additional finals. Nole has a H2H advantage and 2-0 in finals (though they played four of their five matches after 2011, which favored Nole, but it is what it is), but I rank consistency/longevity higher than H2H.
 
D

Deleted member 716271

Guest
hmmm I think Federer would still have a slight edge.

Similar to how Novak has a slight edge at Roland Garros :)
 
Djokodalerer31

Djokodalerer31

Hall of Fame
Right now as it currently stand stats are all in Federer's favor even if Novak wins YEC this year and ties his tournament record! Simply because he reached more finals, semi-finals and as a result won much much more matches than Novak throughout his entire career at ATP finals tournament, thus i think that even Novak breaking that record and getting 7th won't cut it...he will need to show some lengevity combined with effectiveness even after winning his 7th to be considered better man of the tournament (Unless there will be say a 2-3 years gap between his 6th and 7th titles filled with semi-finals and runner-up finishes for which winning round robin matches is a requirement!)...right now its not a contest with or without ATP finale title this year...

Here are the most important stats to compare!

Djokovic vs. Federer Semi-Finals - 7 against 14 (twice as many for Federer! That speaks volumes! Novak is tied with Agassi for 8th best result and there are Borg with 9, Connors with 12 and Becker with 13 before there is Federer with 14)
Djokovic vs. Federer Finals - 6 against 10 (also quite the distance if you'd ask me...Borg and Sampras are with 8 and 9 finals respectively before there is Federer with 10)
Djokovic vs. Federer Titles - 6 against 5 (Even if he ties him, there are lots of tie-breakers in Federer's favor...way too many at this point...)
Djokovic vs. Federer Match Wins - 55 against 31 (for a 5 victories at most for each season! thats a gigantic 5 perfect tournaments worth of a hole...Sampras, Becker and Lendl are all ahead with 35, 36 and 39 match wins respectively before there is a Federer with his 55 victories!)
Djokovic vs. Federer Match Winning % - 80.9% against 73.8% (Even here Federer leads! And there is still Lendl between the two with his 79.6% winning percentage...)

As you can see its quite easy of a decision...And that comes from Djokovic fan...
 
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Enceladus

Enceladus

Legend
Ultron owns the second most important YEC record - 4 titles in a row in 2012-2015. If Ultron equals the most important record YEC, he will be the biggest person in YEC history.
 
Djokodalerer31

Djokodalerer31

Hall of Fame
Enceladus said:
Ultron owns the second most important YEC record - 4 titles in a row in 2012-2015. If Ultron equals the most important record YEC, he will be the biggest person in YEC history.
Click to expand...

You can't be serious man! Look at the graph i posted above...like seriously, what Novak's 4 consecutive titles have to say against those?! I mean c'mmon now, i am Djokovic's fan for as much as the next guy, but you just have to be objective sometimes...If winning it consecutively was more important tie-breaker, then what about Federer winning both WC and USO five consecutive years as opposed to Novak winning only one GS tournament maximum three consecutive times (which is his favorite AO...) or Federer's best steak of 237 consecutive weeks as world number one as opposed to Novak's 122 (which is nearly twice less!) ?! I mean c'mmon dude, lets be honest here...
 
Enceladus

Enceladus

Legend
Djokodalerer31 said:
Right now as it currently stand stats are all in Federer's favor even if Novak wins YEC this year and ties his tournament record! Simply because he reached more finals, semi-finals and as a result won much much more matches than Novak throughout his entire career at ATP finals tournament, thus i think that even Novak breaking that record and getting 7th won't cut it...he will need to show some lengevity combined with effectiveness even after winning his 7th to be considered better man of the tournament (Unless there will be say a 2-3 years gap between his 6th and 7th titles filled with semi-finals and runner-up finishes for which winning round robin matches is a requirement!)...right now its not a contest with or without ATP finale title this year...

Here are the most important stats to compare!

Djokovic vs. Federer Semi-Finals - 7 against 14 (twice as many for Federer! That speaks volumes! Novak is tied with Agassi for 8th best result and there are Borg with 9, Connors with 12 and Becker with 13 before there is Federer with 14)
Djokovic vs. Federer Finals - 6 against 10 (also quite the distance if you'd ask me...Borg and Sampras are with 8 and 9 finals respectively before there is Federer with 10)
Djokovic vs. Federer Titles - 6 against 5 (Even if he ties him, there are lots of tie-breakers in Federer's favor...way too many at this point...)
Djokovic vs. Federer Match Wins - 55 against 31 (for a 5 victories at most for each season! thats a gigantic 5 perfect tournaments worth of a hole...Sampras, Becker and Lendl are all ahead with 35, 36 and 39 match wins respectively before there is a Federer with his 55 victories!)
Djokovic vs. Federer Match Winning % - 80.9% against 73.8% (Even here Federer leads! And there is still Lendl between the two with his 79.6% winning percentage...)

As you can see its quite easy of a decision...And that comes from Djokovic fan...
Click to expand...
Djoker wins 4 YEC titles in a row, which is more important record than Fed's extra final, matches, etc. Djoker's dominance at YEC exceeds Roger's supremacy.
 
Djokodalerer31

Djokodalerer31

Hall of Fame
Enceladus said:
Djoker wins 4 YEC titles in a row, which is more important record than Fed's extra final, matches, etc. Djoker's dominance at YEC exceeds Roger's supremacy.
Click to expand...

But isn't winning more matches, reaching more decisive stages etc...kinda shows effectiveness and longevity? I understand though that Federer has an upper hand in a way that he started his career earlier and peaked much earlier than Novak, but there is no guarantee Novak will have the same career longevity and effectiveness moving forward at this particular tournament! Whilst Federer's stats are already guaranteed and happened fact, that nothing can change...Novak still can get these numbers, but he will have to stay consistent for at least 4-5 more seasons and play at ATP finals in all of them and win matches and exit RR groups in ALL of them as well! Tough task...not non-achievable though, but still very tough!...We don't know what will happen in couple of seasons, let alone in 4-5 looking forward!...
 
D

Deleted member 757377

Guest
Final opponents:

no.5 Davydenko
no.2 Federer
no.1 Nadal
no.2 Federer
no.3 Federer
no.3 Federer ?

average ranking 2.7
average slam titles 16.2

to

no.5 Agassi
no.3 Hewitt
no.8 Blake
no.6 Ferrer
no.1 Nadal
no.6 Tsonga

average ranking 5.8
average slam titles 4.5
 
Night Slasher

Night Slasher

Semi-Pro
Enceladus said:
Djoker wins 4 YEC titles in a row, which is more important record than Fed's extra final, matches, etc. Djoker's dominance at YEC exceeds Roger's supremacy.
Click to expand...
Nole's dominance is not much more impressive than Rodja's to be fair. They both played five consecutive finals (2003-2007 for Fed, 2012-2016 for Nole) and won four titles. It is true that Nole won four in a row, but Rodja defended his title twice during his run, so Nole has a very small edge over him domination-wise.
 
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Enceladus

Enceladus

Legend
Djokodalerer31 said:
You can't be serious man! Look at the graph i posted above...like seriously, what Novak's 4 consecutive titles have to say against those?! I mean c'mmon now, i am Djokovic's fan for as much as the next guy, but you just have to be objective sometimes...If winning it consecutively was more important tie-breaker, then what about Federer winning both WC and USO five consecutive years as opposed to Novak winning only one GS tournament maximum three consecutive times (which is his favorite AO...) or Federer's best steak of 237 consecutive weeks as world number one as opposed to Novak's 122 (which is nearly twice less!) ?! I mean c'mmon dude, lets be honest here...
Click to expand...
Statistics achieved by the finals or semi-finals are statistics the losers, when the player doesn't win the titles.
In addition to Djoker, only Lendl and Nastase proved YEC to win three times in a row. Fedex never reached the hattrick on YEC, which I consider to be his minus.
 
NoleFam

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
I actually think dominance trumps all then comes everything else. If both players are tied then I go with (1) dominance, (2) head to head, and then (3) tournament record. This is why for me Djokovic is top dog in Australia even though they are tied in titles. When Djokovic reached 6 titles there, Federer was on 4 titles even though he had a 6 year advantage. Djokovic won 5/6 so he was more dominant and he leads the head to head 3-1 so for me, he's proven he's the best there. Now if both players are tied in titles and neither was dominant like Murray and Nadal at Wimbledon, then I go with head to head and tournament record/consistency. In that case, Nadal clearly is over Murray there. Now if we are looking at Djokovic and Nadal at USO then I look at head to head which is 2-1 in Nadal's favor but then Djokovic's tournament record/consistency is so far ahead of Nadal's that that one match win is not enough to offset it. Therefore when it comes to Federer and Djokovic at WTF, if Djokovic was to in fact tie Federer, I would go with Federer. They both were about the same in dominance. Djokovic won 4 in a row and Federer won 4/5. Slight edge to Djokovic but pretty close. The head to head is 3-2 in Djokovic's favor but Federer's consistency there has been excellent and he has a better record as of now. So, Federer would have the edge over Djokovic.
 
Enceladus

Enceladus

Legend
Night Slasher said:
Nole's dominance is not much more impressive than Rodja's to be fair. They both played five consecutive finals (2003-2007 for Fed, 2012-2016 for Nole) and won four titles. It is true that Nole won four in a row, but Rodja defended his title twice during his run, so Nole has a very small edge over him when it comes to consistency.
Click to expand...
Achieving 4 titles in a row is more impressive than 2 strips of 2 consecutive titles. Djoker completed the YEC hattrick (Lendl and Nastase too), Roger not.
 
Nadal_Django

Nadal_Django

Legend
mr tonyz said:
As per the poll options above ...

p.s . I didn't know what else to add in Djoker's favor apart from the H2H?

Fed seems to have most of the intangibles covered , Fed's also won 3 of his 6 YECs with B05 finals. But i thought that would be overkill.

Edit. Oh sheesh how could i have forgotton about Djoker's 4 consecutive YECs . Yikes!
Click to expand...
Hmm, you asking right question but in the wrong place. On this board if 50-50 or even 40-60 the answer is always Federer whatever the tie-breakers or the intangibles.:rolleyes:
 
Enceladus

Enceladus

Legend
NoleFam said:
I actually think dominance trumps all then comes everything else. If both players are tied then I go with (1) dominance, (2) head to head, and then (3) tournament record. This is why for me Djokovic is top dog in Australia even though they are tied in titles. When Djokovic reached 6 titles there, Federer was on 4 titles even though he had a 6 year advantage. Djokovic won 5/6 so he was more dominant and he leads the head to head 3-1 so for me, he's proven he's the best there. Now if both players are tied in titles and neither was dominant like Murray and Nadal at Wimbledon, then I go with head to head and tournament record/consistency. In that case, Nadal clearly is over Murray there. Now if we are looking at Djokovic and Nadal at USO then I look at head to head which is 2-1 in Nadal's favor but then Djokovic's tournament record/consistency is so far ahead of Nadal's that that one match win is not enough to offset it. Therefore when it comes to Federer and Djokovic at WTF, if Djokovic was to in fact tie Federer, I would go with Federer. They both were about the same in dominance. Djokovic won 4 in a row and Federer won 4/5. Slight edge to Djokovic but pretty close. The head to head is 3-2 in Djokovic's favor but Federer's consistency there has been excellent and he has a better record as of now. So, Federer would have the edge over Djokovic.
Click to expand...
I agree that dominance is the most important factor (when the number of titles is equal), followed by H2H and consistency. Djoker is better in both H2H and dominance, he is the owner of the YEC record line, while Fed hasn't been able to complete the hattrick on YEC. Fed is better in consistency, but if Djoker gets the 6th YEC title this year, he will have more factors on his side.
 
NoleFam

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Enceladus said:
I agree that dominance is the most important factor (when the number of titles is equal), followed by H2H and consistency. Djoker is better in both H2H and dominance, he is the owner of the YEC record line, while Fed hasn't been able to complete the hattrick on YEC. Fed is better in consistency, but if Djoker gets the 6th YEC title this year, he will have more factors on his part.
Click to expand...

I just don't think anything can top dominance in this regard when they are tied. It's the reason I had Sampras over Federer when they both had 7 Wimbledons but had Federer over him at the USO. You can make a case for Djokovic and you make a good point but I go with Federer because he has a 81% record and Djokovic is at 74%. That is the tiebreaker for me.
 
Phoenix1983

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
Lew said:
Final opponents:

no.5 Davydenko
no.2 Federer
no.1 Nadal
no.2 Federer
no.3 Federer
no.3 Federer ?

average ranking 2.7
average slam titles 16.2

to

no.5 Agassi
no.3 Hewitt
no.8 Blake
no.6 Ferrer
no.1 Nadal
no.6 Tsonga

average ranking 5.8
average slam titles 4.5
Click to expand...

I agree Lew - Federer’s performance was inferior to Novak Djokovic’s, because he didn’t beat Federer in the finals...
 
K

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Lew said:
Final opponents:

no.5 Davydenko
no.2 Federer
no.1 Nadal
no.2 Federer
no.3 Federer
no.3 Federer ?

average ranking 2.7
average slam titles 16.2

to

no.5 Agassi
no.3 Hewitt
no.8 Blake
no.6 Ferrer
no.1 Nadal
no.6 Tsonga

average ranking 5.8
average slam titles 4.5
Click to expand...
Did you watch the 2015 final? Fed played like crap. Regardless of his rank or how many slams he had won...

2010 Nadal played better than 2013 version too.

2014 doesn’t count as a final opponent as it was a walkover.

Tsonga was a very tough opponent that year with how he played, much better than 2015 Fed but these stats don’t show that because he is slamless and had a lower ranking..
 
Towny

Towny

Hall of Fame
Would have to go with Fed. The extra finals and consistency are too much to ignore. Novak's 4 in a row is very impressive however (although arguably Fed may have taken 05 had it been BO3 so could have 5 in a row). Novak also was really impressive when he beat Fed in 2012. Fed was actually playing very well in that match so Novak was seriously good to take it in straights.

Overall Fed edges it if they're tied. I'd give Novak the nod if he gets 7
 
B

BrokenGears

Guest
Fed has it if they tie, Djokovuc would need to surpass him
 
ibbi

ibbi

G.O.A.T.
Winning more matches is obviously a pretty big deal, greater longevity between titles/appearances also a pretty big deal, and however many times you win the thing 5-0 as opposed to 4-1 is a pretty big thing to me as well. The 5 set finals is a cool one also, but a little less so than the ones above.
 
Towny

Towny

Hall of Fame
Lew said:
Ferrer got mocked and called mug for being many years at the top without winning, which is basically what Federer did too.
Click to expand...
Ferrer made one slam final in his career and got routined. 1 masters title, 1 YEC final. Let's not seriously compare him to post prime Federer. Besides, I think you'll find many posters here admire Ferrer. We just don't think he's a tough opponent for the Big 3
 
RaulRamirez

RaulRamirez

Legend
mr tonyz said:
As per the poll options above ...

p.s . I didn't know what else to add in Djoker's favor apart from the H2H?

Fed seems to have most of the intangibles covered , Fed's also won 3 of his 6 YECs with B05 finals. But i thought that would be overkill.

Edit. Oh sheesh how could i have forgotton about Djoker's 4 consecutive YECs . Yikes!
Click to expand...

Let's see where they end up at the end of their careers. I'm on "record" as not regarding this tourney as heavily as most, but I would see this tourney as one of many factors in judging their careers, and will mostly look at titles here. If they end up tied here, so be it.
 
Steve0904

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
I think the amount of times going 5-0 vs 4-1 is the most important TB'er. That said, I think at the end of the day most people won't care much for any TB'er between these two if Djokovic ties it this year, unless he plays horra awful, going 1-2 in RR and lucking out or something crazy like that. 6=6 is all that matters.
 
D

Deleted member 757377

Guest
This discussion is quite irrelevant, 5 more masters winning all of them easily puts Djokovic above Federer outside slams.
 
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