If Federer plays like he did today, he will beat Djokovic

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Anaconda

Hall of Fame
He's going to be playing someone who would have gotten a lot of balls back today and someone who can actually finish points off at the net. Not to mention Djokovic being the more aggressive returner. I see Djokovic winning in straight sets, maybe four. Would be very surprised to see Federer get any closer. Murray is absolutely no indication of how Djokovic would do against Federer as he outclasses Murray on every front bar some tools (slice/lob). If Federer does do it, then fair play but I just don't see it happening.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
He's going to be playing someone who would have gotten a lot of balls back today and someone who can actually finish points off at the net. Not to mention Djokovic being the more aggressive returner. I see Djokovic winning in straight sets, maybe four. Would be very surprised to see Federer get any closer. Murray is absolutely no indication of how Djokovic would do against Federer as he outclasses Murray on every front bar some tools (slice/lob). If Federer does do it, then fair play but I just don't see it happening.
bwahaha ha ha ha ha

federer was playing considerably worse last year, djokovic was playing at his best and it went 6-3 in the 5th ... yet, you would be surprised to see federer get closer than losing in 4 sets ?

Ok, the logic is impeccable !!!!!
 
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Deleted member 307496

Guest
He's going to be playing someone who would have gotten a lot of balls back today and someone who can actually finish points off at the net. Not to mention Djokovic being the more aggressive returner. I see Djokovic winning in straight sets, maybe four. Would be very surprised to see Federer get any closer. Murray is absolutely no indication of how Djokovic would do against Federer as he outclasses Murray on every front bar some tools (slice/lob). If Federer does do it, then fair play but I just don't see it happening.
Murray >> Djokovic at the net.
Murray >> Djokovic on grass altogether.

Djokovic ain't great on grass. Federer is.

It may take 4 or 5 sets, but Federer can win the final. I agree, it won't be a drubbing, but I expect Federer to win if he's zoning.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
He's going to be playing someone who would have gotten a lot of balls back today and someone who can actually finish points off at the net. Not to mention Djokovic being the more aggressive returner. I see Djokovic winning in straight sets, maybe four. Would be very surprised to see Federer get any closer. Murray is absolutely no indication of how Djokovic would do against Federer as he outclasses Murray on every front bar some tools (slice/lob). If Federer does do it, then fair play but I just don't see it happening.
I can guarantee Federer will win at least a set. Novak has not been in such great form here and we know Novak does not handle pressure and adversity.

Make no mistake, if Fed wins first set and a break in second, Novak will be cursing and whining and the match will end there.

You can expect Fed to fight till the last point at Wimbledon.
 

Anaconda

Hall of Fame
Murray >> Djokovic at the net.
Murray >> Djokovic on grass altogether.

Djokovic ain't great on grass. Federer is.

It may take 4 or 5 sets, but Federer can win the final. I agree, it won't be a drubbing, but I expect Federer to win if he's zoning.

Don't agree with this at all. Djokovic has a very good net game and actually volleys with his legs not his racket. Federer is great on grass, but what has he done since 2009? 1 Wimbledon title. Djokovic has two. Clearly something doesn't add up here. Murray is not a better grasscourter than Djokovic. I'll agree the gap on grass is as close as it can be surface-2-surface but Djokovic has two Wimbledon titles beating the two proven grasscourters, Murray has one title and a whole host of losses to these proven grasscourters.





ABMK, this time last year Djokovic actually had quite a few losses coming into the tournament. At this very moment, the only guy who has beaten Djokovic in any meaningful event got KO'd by the guy he KO'd. Djokovic moves better than Murray, has more guts than Murray and returns better, especially the FH return up the line.





Djokovic has also faced a few big servers who play aggressively. That'll surely help.
 
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Deleted member 307496

Guest
Don't agree with this at all. Djokovic has a very good net game and actually volleys with his legs not his racket. Federer is great on grass, but what has he done since 2009? 1 Wimbledon title. Djokovic has two. Clearly something doesn't add up here. Murray is not a better grasscourter than Djokovic. I'll agree the gap on grass is as close as it can be surface-2-surface but Djokovic has two Wimbledon titles beating the two proven grasscourters, Murray has one title and a whole host of losses to these proven grasscourters.





ABMK, this time last year Djokovic actually had quite a few losses coming into the tournament. At this very moment, the only guy who has beaten Djokovic in any meaningful event got KO'd by the guy he KO'd
Federer might have only won a single Wimbledon since 2009, but that doesn't mean he won't win another in 2015. Actually, if history serves me right, he won his 2012 title three years after his 2009 title, and now it's 2015 -- three years after 2012.

I"m not into superstitions, but..

And Djokovic beat a way worse Federer last year. He was all serve, no ground-game. Dropped a set to Raonic if I remember correctly. This year he beat Murray in straights.. and any version of Murray >> Raonic.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
ABMK, this time last year Djokovic actually had quite a few losses coming into the tournament. At this very moment, the only guy who has beaten Djokovic in any meaningful event got KO'd by the guy he KO'd. Djokovic moves better than Murray, has more guts than Murray and returns better, especially the FH return up the line.

Djokovic has also faced a few big servers who play aggressively. That'll surely help.
I'll be frank now ....who the sh*t cares about wawrinka on grass now ? I've said it before and so have many others ... federer and murray would be much bigger threats for Novak at Wim than stan would be ...

a) djokovic does NOT move better than murray on grass
b) he does NOT return better than murray, he's a better returner of 2nd serves than murray, but worse on the 1st ..overall its a wash ...

and yeah, he does serve better and is better mentally

all this doesn't change that if federer is rolling as he is today or close to it , he's gonna win vs any version of Novak ..he's just that good ..


last year, Novak had played Tsonga in 4R ( played at his very best ), cilic in the QF ( & dimitrov in the SF ) ... he faced big serving last year as well ...

murray had faced the biggest server of em' all - karlovic ...didn't help him that much vs fed , did it !?

What I said stands ...if fed plays as well as he did today, he wins ...its a simple as that ... he was playing clearly worse vs a Novak at his best and still took it to 5 last year .....
 

Anaconda

Hall of Fame
And Djokovic beat a way worse Federer last year. He was all serve, no ground-game. Dropped a set to Raonic if I remember correctly. This year he beat Murray in straights.. and any version of Murray >> Raonic.


But you said Federer was a great grasscourter and Djokovic wasn't, this point of view holds no weight.
 

killerboi2

Hall of Fame
I can't call who is gonna win. Federer's serve has been insane. I think Djokovic is gonna do a better job at breaking Federer's rythym though and most definitely isn't going to be mentally weak enough to mug up his own service games at crucial times to lose the set like Murray did. I have a feeling Djokovic would also return Federer's serve better than Murray.
 
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Deleted member 307496

Guest
But you said Federer was a great grasscourter and Djokovic wasn't, this point of view holds no weight.
Because Djokovic isn't..

Anybody can see that he doesn't move naturally on grass.

Actually, it's sort of why I want Djokovic to win the USO this year. He's better suited for that surface than Wimbledon.
 

Anaconda

Hall of Fame
I'll be frank now ....who the sh*t cares about wawrinka on grass ? I've said it before and so have many others ... federer and murray would be much bigger threats for Novak at Wim than stan would be ...

a) djokovic does NOT move better than murray on grass
b) he does NOT return better than murray, he's a better returner off 2nd serves than murray, but worse on the 1st ..overall its a wash ...

and yeah, he does serve better and is better mentally

all this doesn't change that if federer is rolling as he is today or close to it , he's gonna win vs any version of Novak ..he's just that good ..


last year, Novak had played Tsonga in 4R ( played at his very best ), cilic in the QF ( & dimitrov in the SF ) ... he faced big serving last year as well ...

murray had faced the biggest server of em' all - karlovic ...didn't help him that much vs fed , did it !?

What I said stands ...if fed plays as well as he did today, he wins ...its a simple as that ... he was playing clearly worse vs a Novak at his best and still took it to 5 last year .....

In other words, if Federer loses on Sunday then it's because he didn't play like he did today, and if he wins your POV is proved right.





Funny how Djokovic has no say as to what happens. I think people forget that Djokovic was not at his best last year either, and should have wrapped things up way before the 5th set.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
In other words, if Federer loses on Sunday then it's because he didn't play like he did today, and if he wins your POV is proved right.



Funny how Djokovic has no say as to what happens. I think people forget that Djokovic was not at his best last year either, and should have wrapped things up way before the 5th set.
LOL, r u serious ? djoko played at his very best last year in the wimby final ... he was way worse in the QF vs cilic and SF vs dimitrov ...
except for the slip up in the 4th set when in part he allowed federer to come back ...but that's the point ... that was federer playing clearly worse than what he's now and he still took him to 5 .........

federer was serving monstrously in the 3rd set last year vs novak, but Novak withstood that and won the TB ...anything less than his very best, he'd have lost that set for sure ....

My point is IF federer can play as well as he did today or close to it, djoko is not winning ... he's not the GOAT and grass court GOAT for nothing !

of course djoko will be there and try to put all the pressure on federer and ensure federer won't play at this level ... and we'll see how it goes ....
 

Anaconda

Hall of Fame
LOL, r u serious ? djoko played at his very best last year in the wimby final ... he was way worse in the QF vs cilic and SF vs dimitrov ...
except for the slip up in the 4th set when in part he allowed federer to come back ...but that's the point ... that was federer playing clearly worse than what he's now and he still took him to 5 .........

My point is IF federer can play as well as he did today or close to it, djoko is not winning ... he's not the GOAT and grass court GOAT for nothing !

of course djoko will be there and try to put all the pressure on federer and ensure federer won't play at this level ... and we'll see how it goes ....

And if Federer plays the same match and loses everyone will say how Federer played like crap, I need to debate with a rational Federer fan. Bring me Zagor!
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
And if Federer plays the same match and loses everyone will say how Federer played like crap, I need to debate with a rational Federer fan. Bring me Zagor!
yeah, he's very much here and he'll tell you the same thing ....

federer didn't play like cr*p last year final ...he played good tennis .... he served amazingly well and showed great resilience, but his ground game and returning were well below par ...he's been doing better this year ...that's the reality ..

maybe its about frikkin' time you stopped only waxing lyrical about the peak levels of the likes of stan and actually acknowledge that federer shows up even at the age of 33+ playing somewhere close to his best on his best surface, he's gonna win !!!!!!
 
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mistik

Hall of Fame
Djokovic in 4 sets. Fed won a set after he is behind 2 sets down. Dont expect a epic this time around.
 

thejoe

Hall of Fame
Even if he serves as well as he did today, he'll need to return much better than he did during last year's final if he's to stand a realistic chance.
 

JustBob

Hall of Fame
Rain on Sunday, roof closed. Slick/faster court. Watch Djokovic, who is not a great mover on grass, start to slip, lose his footing, look up at the heavens and curse at his box like we've seen him do in the past in those conditions.
 

Anaconda

Hall of Fame
yeah, he's very much here and he'll tell you the same thing ....

Ah, so you are personal acquaintence of Zagor? The Zagor of this board can actually admit when Federer has played a very good match and still come out on the wrong end, although this does happen rarely, it still happens. Djokovic HAS got a say in the match no matter how Federer, or anyone plays. If you think Federer can push Djokovic around like he did with Murray then you are sadly mistaken. Djokovic has been playing very crafty tennis, and is more than capable of beating any player at their best on any surface.
 

mattennis

Hall of Fame
IF he plays at the level he played today, he will probably win on Sunday (regardless of how Djokovic plays), Yes.

But when you are 33, it is more difficult to play at such a high level in consecutive matches.

Anyway, I think Federer top level on grass is just higher than Djokovic top level on grass, but we don't know what level they will bring on Sunday...
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Ah, so you are personal acquaintence of Zagor? The Zagor of this board can actually admit when Federer has played a very good match and still come out on the wrong end, although this does happen rarely, it still happens. Djokovic HAS got a say in the match no matter how Federer, or anyone plays. If you think Federer can push Djokovic around like he did with Murray then you are sadly mistaken. Djokovic has been playing very crafty tennis, and is more than capable of beating any player at their best on any surface.
yeah, and I've seen that happening vs safin at AO 05, rome 06 ( those are two of my fav matches in fact )

but its not going to happen on grass vs djokovic ...

Djokovic does have a say in what happens, when did I deny that ? he will make federer work harder than murray did most probably ....but if federer can maintain the level he did today, he will prevail in the end ....

umm and no, djokovic is not capable of beating federer at his best at wimbledon, USO or nadal at RG or sampras at USO/wimbledon etc. etc .... its what it is .....
 

Anaconda

Hall of Fame
IF he plays at the level he played today, he will probably win on Sunday (regardless of how Djokovic plays), Yes.

But when you are 33, it is more difficult to play at such a high level in consecutive matches.

Anyway, I think Federer top level on grass is just higher than Djokovic top level on grass, but we don't know what level they will bring on Sunday...

If Djokovic plays his best and Federer plays his best, then Djokovic will win. Too much game.
 

Sysyphus

Talk Tennis Guru
Rain on Sunday, roof closed. Slick/faster court. Watch Djokovic, who is not a great mover on grass, start to slip, lose his footing, look up at the heavens and curse at his box like we've seen him do in the past in those conditions.
"Oh please, oh please, lord let it be so"

 

Anaconda

Hall of Fame
you thought wrong (as always). If you're so confident, feel free to report my "double" account with TMF.

No point, any user on the internet who knows anything about IP addresses can stay undetected, either from a VM, USB, remote, proxy, packet sniffing before internet entry and changing the IP address to an unused address in the pool, change in NAT settings, not to mention it's pretty easy to bypass ACL's, you would only come back to haunt us.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
You heard it here first.
Don't Assume. you know what happens when you assume. Novak is different player than Andy. Novak hits the ball much harder so roger won't have the time that he did against andy so it will be much more difficult and different match in the final
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Federer is great on grass, but what has he done since 2009? 1 Wimbledon title. Djokovic has two. Clearly something doesn't add up here.]
Yeah... how 'bout the 6 years age differential?
 

GabeT

Legend
bwahaha ha ha ha ha

federer was playing considerably worse last year, djokovic was playing at his best and it went 6-3 in the 5th ... yet, you would be surprised to see federer get closer than losing in 4 sets ?

Ok, the logic is impeccable !!!!!
Actually Federer was not playing considerably worse last year. If anything he was playing better. He lost 12 games in last year's SF and lost 14 today. In both SF he went unbroken and faced only one BP.

Nole, on the other hand, was playing worse last year, both in general and at Wimbledon.
 

Firstservingman

Talk Tennis Guru
Actually Federer was not playing considerably worse last year. If anything he was playing better. He lost 12 games in last year's SF and lost 14 today. In both SF he went unbroken and faced only one BP.
But last year he played a very flat Raonic in the final, while this year he played a far more worthy opponent in prime Grassray.
Also Murray is the best possible preparation for Djokovic that Fed could have asked for.
 

GabeT

Legend
But last year he played a very flat Raonic in the final, while this year he played a far more worthy opponent in prime Grassray.
Also Murray is the best possible preparation for Djokovic that Fed could have asked for.
Hmm.. Last year Raonic reached the SF having lost only two sets, same as Murray this year.

Nole, on the other hand, played better this year than last year. At least so far.
 

Firstservingman

Talk Tennis Guru
Hmm.. Last year Raonic reached the SF having lost only two sets, same as Murray this year
Yeah, but Milos wasn't that great against Federer specifically.
He didn't push him at all, and because Milos didn't play to his potential, he was largely a bye for Federer and not good preparation for a good returner like Djokovic.

Nole, on the other hand, played better this year than last year. At least so far.
I don't think so.
I think he's been lucky with the draw TBH, Cilic played a lot better last year, and a decent Dimitrov is a lot better than a tired/injured Gasquet.

I'd say Novak is playing about as well as last year (based on the Anderson/Cilic/Gasquet matches), and Federer significantly better, based on the Simon/Murray matches.

Federer is playing at close-to-prime level as of the last match, and he should be far more match-fit and prepared for a Djokovic-type player having faced Simon, then Murray.
Simon-Murray-Djokovic is a perfect gradient for Federer.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Hmm.. Last year Raonic reached the SF having lost only two sets, same as Murray this year.

Nole, on the other hand, played better this year than last year. At least so far.
Nole played well against Cilic and Kohli. Nothing much to read from Niemenen and Tomic wins. Not as good against Anderson and Gasquet. His FH was sloppy today.

I don't believe there is too much difference in Wimb form, though his form leading up to the tournament is significantly better this year.

That said, it is a match to match thing. If a regular Novak and a regular Fed show up, Novak wins. If a special Fed shows up, he wins regardless of Novak's version.
 
D

Deleted member 307496

Guest
Nole played well against Cilic and Kohli. Nothing much to read from Niemenen and Tomic wins. Not as good against Anderson and Gasquet. His FH was sloppy today.

I don't believe there is too much difference in Wimb form, though his form leading up to the tournament is significantly better this year.

That said, it is a match to match thing. If a regular Novak and a regular Fed show up, Novak wins. If a special Fed shows up, he wins regardless of Novak's version.
Agreed.. And today special Fed showed up..
 
umm and no, djokovic is not capable of beating federer at his best at wimbledon, USO or nadal at RG or sampras at USO/wimbledon etc. etc .... its what it is .....
I would say Djokovic is capable of defeating Nadal at his best at RG. Nadal played his best in the 2013 French Open and still would have lost to a subpar Djokovic without the net collision overhead. Nadal is the better clay courter overall by far of course, but this match alone shows Djokovic could easily beat Nadal even at this best at RG.

Djokovic has never played Sampras so one cant even begin to draw conclusions about that match up. Hewitt who is a similar player to Djokovic (but a poorer one) was a horrible match up for Sampras.
 
LOL, r u serious ? djoko played at his very best last year in the wimby final ... he was way worse in the QF vs cilic and SF vs dimitrov ...
except for the slip up in the 4th set when in part he allowed federer to come back ...but that's the point ... that was federer playing clearly worse than what he's now and he still took him to 5 ..........
Djokovic choked in losing the 1st and 4th sets, so based on that alone it wasnt his "very best". While you are right Federer is playing even better this year, and Djokovic no better in overall level, Djokovic should have finished last years match much sooner than he did as well.
 

GabeT

Legend
Nole played well against Cilic and Kohli. Nothing much to read from Niemenen and Tomic wins. Not as good against Anderson and Gasquet. His FH was sloppy today.

I don't believe there is too much difference in Wimb form, though his form leading up to the tournament is significantly better this year.

That said, it is a match to match thing. If a regular Novak and a regular Fed show up, Novak wins. If a special Fed shows up, he wins regardless of Novak's version.

Nole played so-so today, Federer played his best in years, yet both won in straight sets and both lost the same number of games?
 

Feña14

Legend
IF he plays at the level he played today, he will probably win on Sunday (regardless of how Djokovic plays), Yes.

But when you are 33, it is more difficult to play at such a high level in consecutive matches.

Anyway, I think Federer top level on grass is just higher than Djokovic top level on grass, but we don't know what level they will bring on Sunday...
Agreed. I've got the '04 US Open final on tape and probably watch it a few times a year, that was the best i've ever seen Federer play. The performance today though? Every bit as good imo, just in a different way.

As you say, the problem will be doing it again. If he does then he'll beat Djokovic.
 
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