Curious
G.O.A.T.
It was a response to this.Sorry, but Ben’s groundstrokes look nothing like Connors’. Connors has solid fundamentals.
A lack of ability to hit consistent topspin is a serious weakness on most surfaces except possibly grass.
It was a response to this.Sorry, but Ben’s groundstrokes look nothing like Connors’. Connors has solid fundamentals.
A lack of ability to hit consistent topspin is a serious weakness on most surfaces except possibly grass.
Always a surprise to see players like McEnroe and Connors with their olde 1960s/70s style strokes. Surprised that their strokes never evolved from that era. I am a few months older than JC but did not develop my strokes until the early 1970s. While my game never reached their level of play, my strokes have evolved over the years. My mechanics in the 1990s was different than the style I was using back in the 1970s. And, my strokes in 2010 had evolved further from what they had been in the 90s.
Of course but give me some time, he’s been playing that style of tennis for years, this was my first attempt. He’s the master of his weird technique, he can do anything, place the ball anywhere he likes, hence has much more variety than me. He’s still a 4.5 and I’m a 3.5 but I don’t see myself too far from 4.0 if I persist with this style.Best I have seen you play . But it is nowhere near GSG level.
Connors might hit with half the topspin of today‘s ATP pros, but he hits with way more topspin than any 3.5 rec player and most 4.0 players. I wouldn’t put your topspin strokes in the same category as Connors for generating spin - if you did, you would be a lot more consistent than you are. In any case, there are about 5-10% of 4.5+ players who don’t depend on topspin to be consistent with their shots and those are usually the older players who used to be 5.0+ in their youth - like Connors. GSG is unique because he is a young guy under 40 who is a 4.5 with very little topspin - but he does generate a lot of underspin to gain control of the ball.It was a response to this.
I really doubt that.he hits with way more topspin than any 3.5 rec player and most 4.0 players.
If you say "why would I need topspin groundstrokes?" you're not adopting Ben T.'s style. He hit quite a few topspin forehands during his Essential Tennis matches so far, especially on passing shots.What a feeling! Thanks @GSG for inspiring me.
Why would I need topspin groundstrokes? Just volley everything even from the baseline! That's a winning style, that's fun to hit, that's less stressful. Played the first set as usual with hundreds of errors, mental tension, frustration. Lost 6-2. Second set, started getting rid of topspin, won 6-4. The third set, went full continental, from the first point to the last and won 6-1. My mental tension immediately disappeared in the third set, because I wasn't doubting my shots anymore. I knew I was going to make most of them.
Anyway, slicing on both sides is much easier, with more margin for error, gives you more time for recovery, better for your mental health . By the way, who doesn't enjoy hitting slices??
Here's the third set. Imagine how much better I would be playing if I continued practicing this style.
It’s not his usual rally groundstroke though. Actually a friend of mine pointed out that he doesn’t even really slice those forehands, he just taps them with a semi westernish type grip. Everything he does is unorthodox!If you say "why would I need topspin groundstrokes?" you're not adopting Ben T.'s style. He hit quite a few topspin forehands during his Essential Tennis matches so far, especially on passing shots.
Totally agree. He’s so smart to have figured out the most simple form that works for every shot including his serve.The percentage is increasing more and more, especially as people volley more and more against him. But yeah, he punches his shots, rather than a conventional slice. If you keep slicing with your elaborate and long strokes, I wouldn't expect you to get Ben's consistency. One of Ben's major advantages is that his technique is so simple that it's hard for his strokes to break down or fall out of form during the course of a match, and on a dead run, because there are so few moving parts, he can hit his shots at close to ideal form because it's that simple.
Of course but give me some time, he’s been playing that style of tennis for years, this was my first attempt. He’s the master of his weird technique, he can do anything, place the ball anywhere he likes, hence has much more variety than me. He’s still a 4.5 and I’m a 3.5 but I don’t see myself too far from 4.0 if I persist with this style.
I’ve actually hit with Tracy Austin and her “flat” groundstrokes have way more topspin than any 3.5 or 4.0 I’ve hit against. There’s simply no comparison.I really doubt that.
No one can convince me that Connors forehand in this video has a lot of topspin or more than a 3.5, 4.0 player’s sw grip forehand today.I’ve actually hit with Tracy Austin and her “flat” groundstrokes have way more topspin than any 3.5 or 4.0 I’ve hit against. There’s simply no comparison.
No one can convince me that Connors forehand in this video has a lot of topspin or more than a 3.5, 4.0 player’s sw grip forehand today.
You might be right... but topspin’s overrated.I don’t think his topspin in that video is more than mine here for example.
The core of this thread!You might be right... but topspin’s overrated.
While it is tough to tell from just watching videos, I would beg to differ. Connors is hitting consistently while many of your balls are doing deep due to lack of spin even though your shot speed is very low. Flat-hitting advanced players including juniors in my opinion still have way more topspin than almost every 3.5/4.0 I have played - that’s one of the main reasons the lower level players cannot hit hard and be consistent. Why do you think you complain all the time about your inconsistent topspin drives - it’s because you don’t have enough topspin to be consistent. Lower level players over-estimate their spin RPM even more than they do their shot speed - many of them might not crack 500 rpm on their BH and 800-1000 rpm on their FH.I don’t think his topspin in that video is more than mine here for example.
Ugly?We don't care that he was #1.That is one ugly looking forehand.
It’s not his usual rally groundstroke though. Actually a friend of mine pointed out that he doesn’t even really slice those forehands, he just taps them with a semi westernish type grip. Everything he does is unorthodox!
10/10 troll post.You might be right... but topspin’s overrated.
Well, I’ve checked his forehand grip on slices frame by frame and it’s indeed close to Sw grip!Never heard of this. Assumed MEP was using a Conti grip for forehand slices. That is the conventional instruction... And then he changes to Conti grip for backhand?
The core of this thread!
Here's the third set. Imagine how much better I would be playing if I continued practicing this style.
You have an amazing topspin forehand as it is. The common issue I see is one of spacing, you hit too close to the body in both horizontal planes. Try to hit more in front of the body with enough space that you are not jammed up. Another common issue I noticed is: to generate topspin you start the swing too late and hit under the ball too much causing it to go high and long. You should start the swing earlier and contact the ball on the upward swing path. Make these 2 changes and you should see a dramatic increase in consistency. Also don't tense your arm if you're trying to swing hard, keep it relaxed at all times.This is the set I lost 6-2 before I switched to slicing every ball. See how the frustration builds up with inconsistent topspin groundstrokes.
Thanks but I want a stroke that I can trust will work 90% of the time. I haven't felt that confidence despite trying to get it for years. Hitting a good shot at times is not good enough in this game.You have an amazing topspin forehand as it is. The common issue I see is one of spacing, you hit too close to the body in both horizontal planes. Try to hit more in front of the body with enough space that you are not jammed up. Another common issue I noticed is: to generate topspin you start the swing too late and hit under the ball too much causing it to go high and long. You should start the swing earlier and contact the ball on the upward swing path. Make these 2 changes and you should see a dramatic increase in consistency. Also don't tense your arm if you're trying to swing hard, keep it relaxed at all times.
It's a head scratcher that you are giving up this amazing forehand for the MEP forehand, but do whatever works for you.
What was your strategy in the set you lost to beat your opponent? It seems like he is a junk ball pusher and you were content to be a pusher yourself while he moves better than you (his only advantage) and you make errors when you are made to move. He also seems very comfortable hitting back your low topspin, low speed shots back consistently with awkward-looking underspin.Thanks but I want a stroke that I can trust will work 90% of the time. I haven't felt that confidence despite trying to get it for years. Hitting a good shot at times is not good enough in this game.
Couldn't have put it any better. I believe 90% of recreational players are out there looking to work on different elements of the game using technique that biomechanically maximises the effectiveness of the shot and execute them, and for most little pleasure is derived from playing just not to miss or executing a bunt slice over and over again. This doesn't automatically make them pompous a-holes - they were just seeking a different experience to begin with.Well, that suggests that playing with topspin strokes is playing "pretty" and we know that that by itself isn't the case.
As for losing ugly, I find that it is ugly what many people produce while trying to emulate the pros, regardless of whether they are winning or losing. I also think that a lot of people can benefit from filming themselves to see that problem: they just don't do what they think they do.
In any event, I think that your comment is rather interesting in the sense that apparently people quite quickly forget why they have taken up the sport: it wasn't because they thought that they will win a lot, but because they thought that they might enjoy playing it properly (meaning not a particular stroke choice, but rather to better themselves in the many facets required to be a decent player).
Anyway, glad that you are enjoying yourself with your newfound style.
Perfectly sums up my frustration with this subforumYou are drawing the wrong lessons
At least you look pretty playing proper tennis.This is the set I lost 6-2 before I switched to slicing every ball. See how the frustration builds up with inconsistent topspin groundstrokes.
This is the most important part of moving from 4.0 to 4.5. Better decisions, higher margin targets, decision making is what separates the two levels. That has been my experience. That's also why I am still at 4.0. I am too stubborn to play smarter tennisNo one said the strategy will allow him to beat all opponents [except maybe the Big 3].
It will cut way down on his UEs which is the source for most points lost. This will likely have a big, positive impact on his results.
This is the most important part of moving from 4.0 to 4.5. Better decisions, higher margin targets, decision making is what separates the two levels. That has been my experience. That's also why I am still at 4.0. I am too stubborn to play smarter tennis
Perfectly sums up my frustration with this subforum
Thanks. Nice of you to say.I can tell my experience, your FH is top notch!
GSG is extremely athletic. The camera doesn't show how fast the balls he is returning are flying.Is being a very smart player part of talent? I'm not quite sure about his athletic talent, let alone his extreme talent!
Prince Mono.what racquet is Connors using there? It looks like an oversize badminton racquet
The problem that keeps most rec players at 3.5-4.0 instead of advancing to 4.5-5.0 is that they forget to do the math.@Curious I think if you follow this route, you will become Most Exhausted Player
Nicely executed mad lib.The problem that keeps mostrec playerspeople at 25-30 BMI instead of advancing to 20-25 is that they forget to do themathhealthy lifestyle.
Everyone obsesses withtopspin forehand techniquefatty food habits, but very few achieve a reliability of greater than 80% on atopspin driveregular exercise.
The problem with 80%reliabilityregularity is that it means you have only about 30% probability to survive a5-shot rally7-day week withoutmissinggaining BMI. Not good.
But you still needtopspinfatty food, because you need to have it in your toolkit forpassing shotsfeeling great when youropponenthunger comes to thenethead. An 80% success rate probability onpassing shotworking out willwin you thepointkeep you healthy 80% of the time!
In other words...practicing topspin driveseating fatty food is not a fruitless endeavor. But mostrec playersfolks are playing dumb strategy byusingtopspin driveseating fatty food onneutral rally ballsdays that they don't exercise.
But most rec players are playing dumb strategy by using topspin drives on neutral rally balls, instead of waiting until the percentages make sense.
On the forehand side (which is much more biomechanically sensitive), what other option do you have for a rally ball other than slice? A "flat" drive usually still needs a little top or slice to stabilize it. Isn't using topspin and sidespin, but a lesser amount, the only real alternative to a forehand slice?
It's based on the assumption that most rec players struggle with forehand drives and they surrender the advantage by using it in neutral situation. Instead, use a shot that keeps the rally neutral or sways the advantage in your favor.
(that shot could be an improved fh drve or whatever you can reliably execute more than 80% of the time - but know your strength/weakness, and don't use it without being aware of the 80% rule is what I understand from Trav's post)