Importance of fraternities in college

[NickH87]

If there were girls there, then it was a Greek Organization, not a frat. I'm not on any high high horse, but you can get off your soap box. I'm a college student now. Believe me when I say that I too go to class all day, I go to meetings, I go to work, I make myself dinner, AND I clean my own apartment. Before now, I used to get up at 5:30 in the morning to work out with my trainer because I opted to play college tennis. I have a busy schedule too, and I still manage to live my life and maybe even leave Saturday open to party.

My question is, how are you supposed to gain independence when you have someone doing everything for you? I'm not bashing the idea of frats, I just think they're kind of out of date. Why limit who you can be friends with for the sake of defining yourself with one group of people? I was relieved when I got to college because I was spent on the cliquey-ness.

I dont really understand what you are saying, if you car to explain it a little more please be free. But from what I am getting....I am gaining independence by making my own decisions, it was nobodies choice but mine to join a fraternity, it my choice to go out and fulfill my commitments that I made involving the community service and fundraising. Nobody is holding my hand or forcing me to do any of that.

Secondly, there is no limit or rule where you cannot have friends outside of the frat. That is ridiculous, nobody is in a frat coming into college and you make friends before you join, its not like you leave them and never hear from them.

My schedule consists of classes in the morning to midafternoon, work, meetings, whatever community service I have to do, and some free time hear and there. Sure it sucks right now, but I am in college to better myself for the future. On a resume, comparing two people of the same major and degree, I have: founding father of kappa sigma fraternity @ my university, community service chair, involved with best buddies and other non profit organizations and so forth VS a guy who skated through college and got the same degree, maybe played a sport or two and was in some clubs. C'mon, no brainer, the parties and stuff is extra, something to look forward to at the end of the week to blow off some steam and the stress of the week.

 

[MegacedU]

It doesn't aim to be cliquey like that but it absolutely ends up that way. Especially when it comes to people who belong to other frats.

 

[Deuce]

I am gaining independence by making my own decisions, it was nobodies choice but mine to join a fraternity,

^ Surely even you can see the folly of this statement...

Kind of like the 14 year old boy who gets an earring to "assert his independence" - just like 70% of the other boys his age in his school...

Comical...

 

[heycal]

I have not read the whole thread, or even most of it. I have no real insights into fraternities. I did not go to a school that had them, nor have I bothered to learn anything about them.

But I will say the Hollywood image idea I have of frat house life, living with a bunch of friends in a big ole house and playing pool and eating pizza and drinking beer at 3am or whatever, sounds like a blast. But maybe it's because I practically grew up in a frat house and miss the fun of it.

I don't know. I say go for it!

 

[Steady Eddy]

My schedule consists of classes in the morning to midafternoon, work, meetings, whatever community service I have to do, and some free time hear and there. Sure it sucks right now, but I am in college to better myself for the future. On a resume, comparing two people of the same major and degree, I have: founding father of kappa sigma fraternity @ my university, community service chair, involved with best buddies and other non profit organizations and so forth VS a guy who skated through college and got the same degree, maybe played a sport or two and was in some clubs. C'mon, no brainer, the parties and stuff is extra, something to look forward to at the end of the week to blow off some steam and the stress of the week.

We really can't be sure until you're circulating a resume with that on it. I tend to think it will not help. Many people think that frat guys are not very serious students, they think that they only go to college to party. (You see alot of support for this view in this thread.) If the 'other guy's' resume is only about serious pursuits, the frat guy's gonna lose. Despite the fact that he might say, "You should a seen those parties. AWESOME!" That's not gonna fly in the real world. If you care to say that you were a fraternity president, just say, it's virtually impossible to verify. But no one claims it, because you don't want to talk about that stuff when you go looking for a job, IMO.

 

[jim e]

If there were girls there, then it was a Greek Organization, not a frat.

You stand to be corrected. Look up PSI Omega,, it is a FRAT! a dental one at that. And yes there were female members as well. From what I have heard now they have even more now as more females are getting into the profession.There were 36 chapters of that fraternity, and as I said a Fraternity. Maybe that # has changed over the years, as some dental schools have closed down over the last few years.
As far as having that person keep things clean, as I said it was a tradition there, he was there for about 30 years before I was and he took pride in coming in to help.You would probably fire the guy, where we all enjoyed his help, and it kept the place decently clean.
You had no clue as to the schedule that we had with our coursework, as the college was on an advanced 3 year program cramming 4 years worth of information in that amount of time, it was a very intense program to say the least, and to have someone help, that was there for all those years, you do not look the other way on that, and it is not pathetic as you say.

My question is, how are you supposed to gain independence when you have someone doing everything for you?

So if someone cleans up a little for the house, no one has any independance? Don't know how you determine that! Makes no sense at all.we were all adults at that point, and were quite independant!

 

[MegacedU]

You had no clue as to the schedule that we had with our coursework, as the college was on an advanced 3 year program cramming 4 years worth of information in that amount of time, it was a very intense program to say the least, and to have someone help, that was there for all those years, you do not look the other way on that, and it is not pathetic as you say.

You're no different than any other driven college kid. I'm in an MBA program and after that I'm going to law school to become a corporate lawyer. I have work coming out my ears, as do many of my classmates.

But really, this isn't about me, or about your course work. It's about what most frats represent, engage in, and limit themselves to.

I'm sure those girls made greattttt brothers.

 

[jim e]

You're no different than any other driven college kid. I'm in an MBA program and after that I'm going to law school to become a corporate layer. I have work coming out my ears, as do many of my classmates.

But really, this isn't about me, or about your course work. It's about what most frats represent, engage in, and limit themselves to.

I'm sure those girls made greattttt brothers.

As I said ours was not like what you describe, no matter what you want to believe in. You were wrong about it not being a Frat and having females, and you are wrong about what it represents, engage in , and limit themselves to as you say.Maybe some were as you describe, but certainly not all,and definitely not ours, as I can certainy testify to that!
You need to keep an open mind to what you think things are like , Frats are not all as you describe. keep an open mind on things, and good luck to you and your schooling.

I'm sure those girls made greattttt brothers.

Not at all like you think, I'm sure, as they were there for the same reason as we all were, after all, we were all professionals.

 

[atatu]

Not at all like you think, I'm sure, as they were there for the same reason as we all were, after all, we were all professionals.

Personally, I never had the need to go to a "professional" - either during college or after college, but I'm not here to judge you...

 

[sureshs]

Well you guys can believe what you want, you havent been apart of it so you wont understand it. You only see what you want to and refuse to look at it any different. The movies and tv shows are extremes, yes hazing happens but thats life, its not the first or last time anything similar is going to happen.

Look at football teams, even professional sports teams, its all the same stuff in different areas of life. One of my best friends, who happens not to be in a fraternity at school got punched in the face and hazed when he joined the freshman football team in high school. They look at it as paying your dues and thats it, simple and plain, you may think its dumb, sometimes I do too, but there are reasons.

So someone who didn't get punched in the face could not become a football player? Seems to be justifying a practice which ends up in criminal cases and expulsion.

I lived in a dorm where severe hazing was the rule. It ranged from verbal abuse to violent slapping and being asked to climb up stairs on knees and such things. The prevalent notion was that you had to be hazed in order to "become a man." One day in my final year a guy was going around saying that without hazing no one can face the real world and be a man. I was quiet for a while, then asked him what he thought was a tangential question: which town are you from and which school did your father go to? Turned out his father stayed at home and attended a day college. Then I said - your father must not be a real man. He got wild and we came to blows, and someone had to separate us.

The only place where hazing is justified is military boot camp.

 

[Deleted member 25923]

I did just that myself, as I went to a small c.c. then transferred to Ohio State University, where there were over 50,000 students at the main campus back in the 70's.After undergrad there, I attended the dental school at OSU as well.
You will make friends where ever you go, no need to worry about that. Best of luck to you. Make most out of your time there, as it will go by fast!
In a few weeks I will be attending 3 days of continuing ed at Ohio State, and I will be seeing some old friends from 30 years ago as well, and putting down a few drinks like old times as well too.


So Ohio State University doesn't count?

Good to know. I'm thinking of finishing my general ed at a community college before actual college. I'm still a sophomore in high school though.

 

[NickH87]

^ Surely even you can see the folly of this statement...

Kind of like the 14 year old boy who gets an earring to "assert his independence" - just like 70% of the other boys his age in his school...

Comical...

Whats comical is you sit on the computer with your 4,000 posts judging other people lives. You've obviously made something great of yourself to sit back and criticize other peoples personal decisions to better themselves.

What is your personal experience with your so called "frat guys" that made you hate them so much?

Did they beat you up, kick you out of the pledge process? Not let you come to their party? Steal your girlfriend? What can be so bad that you seem to think it is right to judge everyone single person by whatever goes on in your mind?

 

[MegacedU]

Whats comical is you sit on the computer with your 4,000 posts judging other people lives. You've obviously made something great of yourself to sit back and criticize other peoples personal decisions to better themselves.

What is your personal experience with your so called "frat guys" that made you hate them so much?

Did they beat you up, kick you out of the pledge process? Not let you come to their party? Steal your girlfriend? What can be so bad that you seem to think it is right to judge everyone single person by whatever goes on in your mind?

All of that would have required a high school diploma.

 

[jim e]

Good to know. I'm thinking of finishing my general ed at a community college before actual college. I'm still a sophomore in high school though.

They (Community Colleges), are a good place to start. Where I went, I took organic chemistry, and there was 10 people in the class. The instructor knew everyone there real well, and you could not help but get an A if you applied yourself.Then again I liked the sciences, and hated english.
But that same organic class at Ohio State was a big weedout class, and there they had 300-400 in a class, and when broken up with the teaching assistants with the smaller groups, they were mainly foreign like japanese, and spoke very poor english, and was difficult to understand.
All my classes I took at the CC. transferred with no problems as well.It also saved a big amount as far as tuition. Once I got my degree, and then dental school, I was no different than anyone else in my profession.

 

[Serpententacle]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7220105

 

[NickH87]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,363480,00.html

**** happens

 

[Lendl and Federer Fan]

If you have a chance to join something like Skull &Bones, do it. :twisted::wink:

 

[Deuce]

Whats comical is you sit on the computer with your 4,000 posts judging other people lives. You've obviously made something great of yourself to sit back and criticize other peoples personal decisions to better themselves.

What is your personal experience with your so called "frat guys" that made you hate them so much?

Did they beat you up, kick you out of the pledge process? Not let you come to their party? Steal your girlfriend? What can be so bad that you seem to think it is right to judge everyone single person by whatever goes on in your mind?

Look - you absolutely contradicted yourself in that post by saying that joining a fraternity was an example of your independence.
That is simply ridiculous, for reasons that are more than obvious.

It's rather humorous that you have no idea how much your posts are reinforcing the very stereotype of fraternities which you so desperately wish to dispell...

 

[Phil]

This discussion has been been done on these boards. I'll say now what I said then: frats are major breeding grounds for d-bags.

Some of the worst-of-the-worst that I ran into in college, were frat boys. Not all, but many. If you enjoy binge drinking and lack any appreciable social skills then Alpha Sigma Sigma or whatever, is for you!

 

[NickH87]

Look - you absolutely contradicted yourself in that post by saying that joining a fraternity was an example of your independence.
That is simply ridiculous, for reasons that are more than obvious.

It's rather humorous that you have no idea how much your posts are reinforcing the very stereotype of fraternities which you so desperately wish to dispell...

Just answer a simple question, what makes you think you can stereotype every single person because of some little experience that happened in your life?

 

[logansc]

There is a very negative stereotype that exists and it is truly deserved. As a fraternity guy I've seen the best and the worst of the greek system first hand. I joined a fraternity as a freshman just because it was something to do and get out of my dorm room. I also joined many honor/professional societies while in school and also was on a 4-year scholarship. While I will agree there are major flaws and flawed individuals in the greek system, this same type of mindset also exists in the independent crowd. I understand where you're coming from Nick and you make valid points but don't trump up the fact that you're a member and Deuce isn't. Deuce, you have your opinions and while some I find are true, they are mostly generalizations. I think your greek/social experience is akin to the overall college experience, in that, you can make it what you want. If you want to be a beer-chugging jock meathead you can do that. If you want intellectual conversation and development, you can get that also. I know you can say what you want about buying friends etc, but I wasn't friends with everyone in my frat and I made many friends outside of it. Bottom line, it is a personal choice to join and it's up to the individual on how to make a greek experience work for them.

 

[LuckyR]

The Greek system is what it is. The question is: does it have any value for the particular student. This answer will vary from one circumstance to another. One student will have done his share of binge drinking and wanton skirt chasing in High School and may be after a different experience that the University can provide and that High Schools generally don't. Frats are a case of: been there done that. This situation is not the majority of cases though, as a large segment of the HS party folk don't make it to 4 year Univerisities. Some liked the party situation in HS and don't want it to end, great there's the Greek system to fill the gap. Still others never had the party experience in HS and want it at one point, why not in college? Still others have a philosophical difference with the whole Greek paradigm (they couldn't care a deuce for it, in fact), easy answer there.

It isn't a good or bad thing, it is just there and available for those who seek it out. Didn't need it myself.

 

[LuckyR]

This discussion has been been done on these boards. I'll say now what I said then: frats are major breeding grounds for d-bags.

Some of the worst-of-the-worst that I ran into in college, were frat boys. Not all, but many. If you enjoy binge drinking and lack any appreciable social skills then Alpha Sigma Sigma or whatever, is for you!

I don't dispute your observations, but to my mind this behavior preexisted the Frat, the Greek system attracted it together in one place but didn't create it.

 

[catfish2424]

Uh... to ruin your game. Why would a coach even let you be in one. with all the hazing who would want to be in one.

 

[Deleted member 25923]

They (Community Colleges), are a good place to start. Where I went, I took organic chemistry, and there was 10 people in the class. The instructor knew everyone there real well, and you could not help but get an A if you applied yourself.Then again I liked the sciences, and hated english.
But that same organic class at Ohio State was a big weedout class, and there they had 300-400 in a class, and when broken up with the teaching assistants with the smaller groups, they were mainly foreign like japanese, and spoke very poor english, and was difficult to understand.
All my classes I took at the CC. transferred with no problems as well.It also saved a big amount as far as tuition. Once I got my degree, and then dental school, I was no different than anyone else in my profession.

Very nice. I like science over english as well. I hope to become a doctor.

 

[jim e]

Very nice. I like science over english as well. I hope to become a doctor.

Important thing is to do well in the basic sciences. Do your best, and it will pay off, and remember, the time will go by very fast. Also remember that most science professors know their lecture materials cold, as they don't even have notes, and they know every word they say. Take good notes ,and get down even the insignificant things said as they will usually ask that on exams, and you will do fine, don't bog yourself down with all the book chapters to read, just read what you do not understand on what was lectured as most professors just ask what was spoken in their lecture content.
I found this to be true in most all science classes.Not all, but the majority for sure. Best of luck to you!!! Jim

 

[jim e]

This discussion has been been done on these boards. I'll say now what I said then: frats are major breeding grounds for d-bags.

Some of the worst-of-the-worst that I ran into in college, were frat boys. Not all, but many. If you enjoy binge drinking and lack any appreciable social skills then Alpha Sigma Sigma or whatever, is for you!

Okay Phil, next time you go to your dentist, ask him if he was a Fraternity member, as most likely he was , at least in dental school, with a dental fraternity. Our school had 3 dental fraternities, and I would say that at least 2/3- 3/4 of our class,or more were fraternity members of one of them.So odds of probability your dentist was a member, then tell him your thoughts of frat. people like you post here, and I'm sure he will appreciate your input! How's that?
Our frat. were all dental students just trying to get through like anyone else, helping each other along the way, and yes having a good time , when time would permit.It's terrible when all frats get put into the same category, thats narrow minded thinking!!!!

 

[Steady Eddy]

Some liked the party situation in HS and don't want it to end, great there's the Greek system to fill the gap. Still others never had the party experience in HS and want it at one point, why not in college? Still others have a philosophical difference with the whole Greek paradigm (they couldn't care a deuce for it, in fact), easy answer there.

It isn't a good or bad thing, it is just there and available for those who seek it out. Didn't need it myself.

Yep, it depends on what you're looking for. If you want college to be a continuation of high school, then you're pro frat. If you're thinking, 'been there, done that', and want the intellectual opportunites, you won't find them in a social fraternity. (Lot of confusion in this thread between social fraternities and academic ones. They're completely different entities. For this thread, it should be understood that by fraternity, one means 'social fraternity').

 

[CAM178]

It's sad to me that after all of these years, that there is still such a strong divide. When I was in a fraternity, yeah, I dug my Brothers. But I also liked people all across campus, no matter who they were, what color they were, who they were friends with, what they did, etc. I was friends with as many people as I could be, as I am to this day.

Were there jerks (or whatever other colorful words have been used in this thread) in fraternities, including mine? You better beLIEVE it!! But that's with anything in life. No matter who you are friends with, who your co-workers are, who your classmates are, etc. . . . . .there will always be jerks, and people that just kind of suck as humans. But to label everyone in the Greek system as asses is a bit undue.

I will say that I experienced it from both sides, as I visited my brother (family) when he was in college (he was much older), and he hated fraternities. He talked constant mess about them. . . .until I joined one. We were always different, but he realized that I did not treat him any differently after I joined one. He was still my brother, and we talked about what it was like.

People just have different experiences. Like I said before: life is what you make of it. Just my 2 cents. :mrgreen:

 

[Deuce]

Deuce, you have your opinions and while some I find are true, they are mostly generalizations.

The heart of my point is this, which I believe was my first post in this thread:

If you want to learn to be a good 'sheep', and follow and do as you're expected by others, then join a fraternity.

If you want to develop into an independent and thinking individual with strength of character, then don't join a fraternity.

... I don't think that was a generalization at all.
More of a fact.

 

[stirallyracer]

i came into college not knowing much at all about frats. i hadn't even really seen movies about it, just a few "deadly hazing" articles here and there. but mostly neutral.

now that my freshman year is almost over, i've observed greek life. i realized that it is not the thing for ME. i feel fine making friends by myself and feel that my circle of friends is kind of my own little "fraternity". i know many guys in frats, and they are all cool.

they CAN be a little elitist sometimes, as in oh this is a private party or oh i'm going to hang out privately with my frat bros. but that's because of what they had to go through to join. just like how soldiers feel better about themselves after bootcamp. but just because they see themselves as part of an elite group doesn't mean they are jerks that look down upon others. i've never ran across a single frat bro who was a jerk to outsiders.

i've seen my friends go through the process of before and after joining a frat. to me, they are the same person. if you are nice to frat bros, they will be nice to you. if you treat them with the predestined notion that all frat guys are ______, then you'll probably not have such a great time.

frats are simple. they are what they are. take it, leave it, or embrace it. i chose to embrace them, but not join.

 

[NickH87]

Okay Phil, next time you go to your dentist, ask him if he was a Fraternity member, as most likely he was , at least in dental school, with a dental fraternity. Our school had 3 dental fraternities, and I would say that at least 2/3- 3/4 of our class,or more were fraternity members of one of them.So odds of probability your dentist was a member, then tell him your thoughts of frat. people like you post here, and I'm sure he will appreciate your input! How's that?
Our frat. were all dental students just trying to get through like anyone else, helping each other along the way, and yes having a good time , when time would permit.It's terrible when all frats get put into the same category, thats narrow minded thinking!!!!

My mom works at a dental office and both dentists were in Fraternities. I talked with them about them before I joined and the differences between their academic fraternities and the social one I would be joining. There are differences, but only to extremes in you make them. They strongly recommended that I join one for the networking aspect and they said to keep your academics as your number one priority and have fun while you are there. Then they went on with the life lessons about how they are older and wish they would have done things differently ect....

So I joined, best decision so far in my life, people are really cool. Some 3 of them created a band and have played some shows in bars and have been really awesome. No one that I have met dislikes the fact that I am in a fraternity or has any preconceived notions about me because of their views on it. Stereotyping is something people like deuce need to stop doing, obviously he his against it and everyone and everything related to it, but just by his snarky responses, you can kind of tell the kind of person he is.

 

[bee]

Nice perspectives here on this subject.

I agree that most fraternities are quite highschoolish in their mentalities, and they tend to not favor intellectual activity. I went to college because I wanted to go on to become a physician. I went on to medical school, but a number of frat boys in the pre-med program did not.

I remember an older friend who wanted me to join his fraternity. He came up to my dorm room my freshman year to have a serious talk with me. He was quite perplexed by my not wanting to join his fraterniy. The conversation turned serious: "Bryan, you know what we call guys who aren't in fraternities? Dorm rats. We call them dorm rats."

I get a laugh out of that every time I think about it.

If you're a strong individual, you don't need a fraternity.

Bee

 

[Deuce]

Stereotyping is something people like deuce need to stop doing, obviously he his against it and everyone and everything related to it, but just by his snarky responses, you can kind of tell the kind of person he is.

^ You're quite a piece of work.
Have you ever wondered if your punctuation and sentence structure would be better had you not joined a fraternity?

Then they went on with the life lessons about how they are older and wish they would have done things differently ect....

^ You're obviously still young.
Perhaps when you are older, and beyond overusing words like 'cool' and 'awesome' and being impressed with people who are in bands who play in bars, you, too, will wish that you'd done things differently.

So I joined, best decision so far in my life, people are really cool. Some 3 of them created a band and have played some shows in bars and have been really awesome.

The difference between you and I is that I've seen and experienced more than you have.
I'll allow others to determine for themselves whether that provides me a better insight than does your narrow experience.

 

[heycal]

I'll allow others to determine for themselves whether that provides me a better insight than does your narrow experience.

Here's one vote for Nick having better insight into this issue.

 

[MegacedU]

Deuce loves telling people how young and inexperienced they are. Pretty soon you'll be a brat.

 

[Deuce]

Here's one vote for Nick having better insight into this issue.

^ That's not an honest vote, but rather the mere bias of a poster who has nothing better to do with his time than habitually follow me around the boards.

Deuce loves telling people how young and inexperienced they are.

^ Because the sooner you realize it, the sooner you'll mature.

 

[NickH87]

^ You're quite a piece of work.
Have you ever wondered if your punctuation and sentence structure would be better had you not joined a fraternity?


^ You're obviously still young.
Perhaps when you are older, and beyond overusing words like 'cool' and 'awesome' and being impressed with people who are in bands who play in bars, you, too, will wish that you'd done things differently.


The difference between you and I is that I've seen and experienced more than you have.
I'll allow others to determine for themselves whether that provides me a better insight than does your narrow experience.

So now you are the grammar police? Give me a break...

What am I supposed to do, not like music and having fun with people I enjoy being around and pretend like I am old and wise like you sitting on the computer telling people how bad their lives are? No thank you, I will keep on rocking.

 

[A555un]

Tennis guys rarely went out, sat together in the cafeteria, and were not terribly popular on campus.

WOW! Who cares about popularity in college?

 

[heycal]

^ That's not an honest vote, but rather the mere bias of a poster

^ Because the sooner you realize it, the sooner you'll mature.

Of course it's an honest vote. Based on what we know about you, I'd place my money on Nick to make better choices in life. I think most us here would. And if Meg "matures" into someone like you, she took a wrong turn somewhere.

 

[CAM178]

WOW! Who cares about popularity in college?

Didn't know that such an unimportant comment would blow your hair back like that. Was just a comment. And I didn't mean popularity as in high school popularity. I just meant that they didn't really get around all that much. They were a pretty solitary group.

 

[NickH87]

So today some of my fraternity brothers and I went to a local church in a less fortunate area. We cleaned up the church yard, planted flowers, raked leaves and picked up twigs...took us about two hours and throughout the entire time, people in cars passing by and walkers were really grateful for us doing the work. We got plenty of thumbs ups and "thank yous" from people, it was rewarding.

Yesterday night we celebrated my friends 21st by binge drinking...best of both worlds.

 

[MegacedU]

^ Because the sooner you realize it, the sooner you'll mature.

Not so much. My question is, how do you know I'm so immature? You've never met me, nor have you ever observed my mannerisms. How would you know what experiences I've had, or furthermore, how "inexperienced" I am? I'm dying to know!

 

[Deuce]

Not so much. My question is, how do you know I'm so immature? You've never met me, nor have you ever observed my mannerisms. How would you know what experiences I've had, or furthermore, how "inexperienced" I am? I'm dying to know!

^ Funny.
.

 

[MegacedU]

^ Funny.
.

Right, brush it off because you don't me and thus, you have no answers for my questions.

 

[Deuce]

Right, brush it off because you don't me and thus, you have no answers for my questions.

^ Funnier, still...

 

[heycal]

From what we can tell of each of these posters, Meg seems more mature and well-adjusted at 21 than Deuce does at middle age.

 

[Deuce]

^ Which more than suggests that you are on the same wavelength as a 21 year old, and that you and Meg deserve each other.

Who's the "we" you habitually refer to, anyway?
Are you literally speaking for someone else who knows that you are speaking for him/her, or do you write "we" simply to try to fool people into thinking you are?

By the way - what happened to your "TT Rap Sheet" thread? It seems gone.
Too bad - that was one of your rare good ideas (even if came about as a result of your need to brag about your 'bad' reputation... kind of like a 21 year old would...).

 

[NickH87]

Wow you are like double our age and ranting like this...I would expect that out of one of us lol.

 

[Kevin T]

Frats are the reason 3 Doors Down, Nickelback and Abercrombie and Fitch are so popular. That's reason enough to detest them. My coaches in college wouldn't allow us to rush and in the end, I think it was a wise move. My music/fashion sensibilities are thankful.