Edberg&Becker
New User
Here it is:
"Laver
1973 probably World Invitational Tennis Classic (WITC) at Hilton Head (4-man invitation tournament)
Nastase
1974 World Invitational Tennis Classic (WITC) at Hilton Head (4-man invitation tournament)
1975 World Invitational Tennis Classic (WITC) at Hilton Head (4-man invitation tournament)
1976 Argentine Round Robin (invitation tournament) September
1977 Rotterdam World Star (invitation tournament) October
Borg
1976 Mexican Round Robin (invitation tournament) September, World Invitational Tennis Classic (WITC) at Hilton Head (4-man invitation tournament) October
1977 World Invitational Tennis Classic (WITC) at Hilton Head (4-man invitation tournament) October
1978 Tokyo Suntory Cup (invitation tournament) probably April
1979 Marbella (invitation tournament) September, Rotterdam (4-man invitation tournament) October, Milan (invitation tournament) November, Frankfurt (invitation tournament) December
1981 Edmonton (invitation tournament) October
1982 Tokyo Suntory Cup (invitation tournament) April, Sydney (invitation tournament) November
Connors
1979 Asuncion (invitation tournament) September; Buenos Aires (invitation tournament) October
1981 Tokyo Suntory Cup (invitation tournament) April
1982 Chicago Challenge of Champions (invitation tournament) January, Montreal (invitation tournament) October
1983 Tokyo Suntory Cup (invitation tournament) probably April
McEnroe
1981 Chicago Challenge of Champions (invitation tournament) January
1982 Perth (invitation tournament) November
Lendl
1981 Milan Brooklyn Masters (invitation tournament) November
1982 Toronto Molson Challenge (invitation tournament) February, Melbourne Mazada (invitation tournament) October
1983 Chicago Challenge of Champions (invitation tournament) January"
"Nowadays the ATP has almost total control over the tennis calender and therefor can define what is official or unofficial. In the 1970's when Connors played they did not control the circuit. In 1974 Connors has 14 listed wins on the ATP web site. However, in 1974 Connors was credited with only entering 13 ATP approved events. Most of connors' victories On Riordan circuit (he won 7) where not ATP sanctioned in 1974. The ATP did not recognise either the WCT finals Or Masters final in the 70s and 80's. Nowadays the Masters counts both for Federer, and looking backwards on the ATP site for Connors and Borg. The 4 man TV invitation Grand Slam event of 70s at Boca raton is also counted by the ATP site. This event is typical invitation event which was ignored by the ATP in the 70's. The ATP web site is a piece of evolving historical research. It is in no way definitive.Particularly before 1973, it is very hit and miss. For instance in 1970 there seems to be almost total lack of tournaments berween January and April. The ATP researches have not been able to track down the results. Some of the missing events for 1970 are on the ITF web site; conversley the ITF site does not pick up some of the results tracked down by the ATP web site. Therefore just because the ATP site does not list an event does not mean it is not a wortwhile event, particularly in the 70s and 80s. As to Kooyong , I would probably count it as a worthwhile win, despite the fact that Federer treated it as just a warm up event for the Australian open. In the 1960s and early 70s , queens was often treated as a warm up event by players for Wimbledon with players more concerned with practising on grass than winning the event. "
"In the 70's many events weren't considered by the modern ATP Website which apart from his numerous missing events of the 70s (and its ignorance of all the "preopen" tennis history) shows many wrong statistics. For instance it credits John Newcombe with two Canadian titles in 1971 (Montreal / Toronto and Toronto WCT) whereas it was the same tournament or it does the same with McEnroe in November 1978 with London and Wembley. If I had to list all the ATP errors I would have to write a book but now the ATP and the ITF are (unhappily) the only modern sources so their statistics are believed by the majority. Jeffreyneave had given you some examples and I will do the same. In the 70's Connors and Riordan his manager set up challenge matches against Laver (February 1975), Newcombe (April 1975) and Orantes (February 1976) and I can guarantee you that these matches were considered important by everybody and not considered as simple exhibitions : in many Connors's records you will find those results whereas nowadays meetings between Federer and Nadal such as the Seoul match (the tuesday following the 2006 Masters) or the Mallorca match (on a grass and clay court) will be quickly forgotten and not listed in their records. Before the 80s there were many parallel circuits therefore many players didn't meet many others. For instance in 1973 there were the WCT circuit, the Grand Prix circuit, the US indoor circuit managed by Riordan and the European circuit held in spring. Then sometimes great players didn't face each other for years. Now if a great player doesn't play another one on the official circuit it means either he isn't good enough or he is injured. All the Kooyong exhibitions are completely forgotten while the Connors-Laver match in 1975 was so much covered : World Tennis magazine put Laver on its cover to present the match against Connors at Las Vegas and inside the magazine several pages were dedicated to this match with Billie Jean King's opinion. Idem for the Connors-Newcombe match where many magazines put the result on their cover and everyone thought at the time that Connors had taken his revenge after his Australian Open defeat at ... Kooyong. Even in the 80s some exhibitions had sometimes a certain importance. Just after Wimbledon 1985 Becker played an exhibition (in Chicago if my memory is good) where he defeated McEnroe and John still remembers it : a few months later McEnroe took his revenge in an ECC-tournament semifinal at Anvers (Antwerp) (I've seen the match) then he lost to Lendl in the final (I've also watched this match) and Lendl, McEnroe and Becker were really serious and they didn't treat lightly those confrontations at all. In 1981-1982 McEnroe lost officially 7 straight matches against Lendl but every witness of the era will tell you that McEnroe lost in reality 8 matches in a row because his defeat at ... Anvers (Antwerp) (again) in November 1982 was considered as a true match (in this case I've also seen the McEnroe-Borg semifinal and the Lendl-McEnroe final and I can guarantee you that the players very truly competitive)."
"Laver
1973 probably World Invitational Tennis Classic (WITC) at Hilton Head (4-man invitation tournament)
Nastase
1974 World Invitational Tennis Classic (WITC) at Hilton Head (4-man invitation tournament)
1975 World Invitational Tennis Classic (WITC) at Hilton Head (4-man invitation tournament)
1976 Argentine Round Robin (invitation tournament) September
1977 Rotterdam World Star (invitation tournament) October
Borg
1976 Mexican Round Robin (invitation tournament) September, World Invitational Tennis Classic (WITC) at Hilton Head (4-man invitation tournament) October
1977 World Invitational Tennis Classic (WITC) at Hilton Head (4-man invitation tournament) October
1978 Tokyo Suntory Cup (invitation tournament) probably April
1979 Marbella (invitation tournament) September, Rotterdam (4-man invitation tournament) October, Milan (invitation tournament) November, Frankfurt (invitation tournament) December
1981 Edmonton (invitation tournament) October
1982 Tokyo Suntory Cup (invitation tournament) April, Sydney (invitation tournament) November
Connors
1979 Asuncion (invitation tournament) September; Buenos Aires (invitation tournament) October
1981 Tokyo Suntory Cup (invitation tournament) April
1982 Chicago Challenge of Champions (invitation tournament) January, Montreal (invitation tournament) October
1983 Tokyo Suntory Cup (invitation tournament) probably April
McEnroe
1981 Chicago Challenge of Champions (invitation tournament) January
1982 Perth (invitation tournament) November
Lendl
1981 Milan Brooklyn Masters (invitation tournament) November
1982 Toronto Molson Challenge (invitation tournament) February, Melbourne Mazada (invitation tournament) October
1983 Chicago Challenge of Champions (invitation tournament) January"
"Nowadays the ATP has almost total control over the tennis calender and therefor can define what is official or unofficial. In the 1970's when Connors played they did not control the circuit. In 1974 Connors has 14 listed wins on the ATP web site. However, in 1974 Connors was credited with only entering 13 ATP approved events. Most of connors' victories On Riordan circuit (he won 7) where not ATP sanctioned in 1974. The ATP did not recognise either the WCT finals Or Masters final in the 70s and 80's. Nowadays the Masters counts both for Federer, and looking backwards on the ATP site for Connors and Borg. The 4 man TV invitation Grand Slam event of 70s at Boca raton is also counted by the ATP site. This event is typical invitation event which was ignored by the ATP in the 70's. The ATP web site is a piece of evolving historical research. It is in no way definitive.Particularly before 1973, it is very hit and miss. For instance in 1970 there seems to be almost total lack of tournaments berween January and April. The ATP researches have not been able to track down the results. Some of the missing events for 1970 are on the ITF web site; conversley the ITF site does not pick up some of the results tracked down by the ATP web site. Therefore just because the ATP site does not list an event does not mean it is not a wortwhile event, particularly in the 70s and 80s. As to Kooyong , I would probably count it as a worthwhile win, despite the fact that Federer treated it as just a warm up event for the Australian open. In the 1960s and early 70s , queens was often treated as a warm up event by players for Wimbledon with players more concerned with practising on grass than winning the event. "
"In the 70's many events weren't considered by the modern ATP Website which apart from his numerous missing events of the 70s (and its ignorance of all the "preopen" tennis history) shows many wrong statistics. For instance it credits John Newcombe with two Canadian titles in 1971 (Montreal / Toronto and Toronto WCT) whereas it was the same tournament or it does the same with McEnroe in November 1978 with London and Wembley. If I had to list all the ATP errors I would have to write a book but now the ATP and the ITF are (unhappily) the only modern sources so their statistics are believed by the majority. Jeffreyneave had given you some examples and I will do the same. In the 70's Connors and Riordan his manager set up challenge matches against Laver (February 1975), Newcombe (April 1975) and Orantes (February 1976) and I can guarantee you that these matches were considered important by everybody and not considered as simple exhibitions : in many Connors's records you will find those results whereas nowadays meetings between Federer and Nadal such as the Seoul match (the tuesday following the 2006 Masters) or the Mallorca match (on a grass and clay court) will be quickly forgotten and not listed in their records. Before the 80s there were many parallel circuits therefore many players didn't meet many others. For instance in 1973 there were the WCT circuit, the Grand Prix circuit, the US indoor circuit managed by Riordan and the European circuit held in spring. Then sometimes great players didn't face each other for years. Now if a great player doesn't play another one on the official circuit it means either he isn't good enough or he is injured. All the Kooyong exhibitions are completely forgotten while the Connors-Laver match in 1975 was so much covered : World Tennis magazine put Laver on its cover to present the match against Connors at Las Vegas and inside the magazine several pages were dedicated to this match with Billie Jean King's opinion. Idem for the Connors-Newcombe match where many magazines put the result on their cover and everyone thought at the time that Connors had taken his revenge after his Australian Open defeat at ... Kooyong. Even in the 80s some exhibitions had sometimes a certain importance. Just after Wimbledon 1985 Becker played an exhibition (in Chicago if my memory is good) where he defeated McEnroe and John still remembers it : a few months later McEnroe took his revenge in an ECC-tournament semifinal at Anvers (Antwerp) (I've seen the match) then he lost to Lendl in the final (I've also watched this match) and Lendl, McEnroe and Becker were really serious and they didn't treat lightly those confrontations at all. In 1981-1982 McEnroe lost officially 7 straight matches against Lendl but every witness of the era will tell you that McEnroe lost in reality 8 matches in a row because his defeat at ... Anvers (Antwerp) (again) in November 1982 was considered as a true match (in this case I've also seen the McEnroe-Borg semifinal and the Lendl-McEnroe final and I can guarantee you that the players very truly competitive)."
