weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal outlasting a ten year younger opponent is an incredible achievement in and of itself. This thread is about choking, in any event.
Is Medvedev the first player to lose after leading 2 sets to 0 who didn't choke?
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Nadal outlasting a ten year younger opponent is an incredible achievement in and of itself. This thread is about choking, in any event.
It was a great victory. But Nadal did not have to pull a rabbit out of a hat or something super special to win. Medvedev did not look like he will win right from the middle of the 3rd set,. Medvedev was like a deer in the headlight every single time he was brought to net.
I thought he was different than Berretini and Zverev in mental makeup. But that day he imploded in typical nextgen fashion.
mental midget
Hall of Fame
he choked.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
Med choked.The consensus seems to be that Nadal could have won it in 4, and that once he showed up to play, the match was on his racket.
Anyone with eyes agrees.
As such there has been very little criticism of Medvedev's blown lead.
Which begs the question, is he the first to lose a 2-0 lead to not be considered to have choked?
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Now Djokovic wins hypotheticals instead of real matches?
As Aristotle said, "would and if" don't exist.
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Sport
G.O.A.T.
Nadal too clutch.*
He choked big time, just like all the NextGen players.
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
Tsitsipas level fell off immensely
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
Facts. He was just too good.
UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
I agree with this, BUT I also agree that Nadal could have taken this in 4 sets.
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
He obviously choked at some points, like on serve at 5-5, but however, let's point out specific moments, even more, point where he choked by making an ERROR.
The Fedfather
Legend
'Choking' is relative. Who doesn't get nervous in a very important match? Messing up because of nerves and pressure is a regular thing in tennis, both when someone is in the lead or on the losing end. If we don't consider Medvedev's sudden drop in level and poor in crucial stretches of the match to be a choke, then there were quite a few players before Daniil who lost their lead without choking. Just in the AO 2022, Felix qualifies with his loss to Medvedev.
AO13
Hall of Fame
As well as Medvedev's. It also depends on the opponent from the other side of the net.
But as someone stated, Tsitsipas didn't even have a chance. Not a single break point in the next three sets. Medvedev had 3 break points in a row which could be crucial. If they both choked, then Medvedev choked harder, a lot harder.
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
Definitely not.
titoelcolombiano
Legend
I don't think Tsits choked in the 2021 RG final to be honest. He was never really close to closing that match out, it's just that Djokovic finished the stronger of the two.
The Big Foe fan
Hall of Fame
He was returning close to 90% in both sets 3 & 4, yet didn't convert a break point, if that's not choking, then what is?The consensus seems to be that Nadal could have won it in 4, and that once he showed up to play, the match was on his racket.
Anyone with eyes agrees.
As such there has been very little criticism of Medvedev's blown lead.
Which begs the question, is he the first to lose a 2-0 lead to not be considered to have choked?
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
The haters are so mad
Mr.Lob
G.O.A.T.
McEnroe said he choked against Lendl.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
I actually wrote a breakdown of that game, point by point, somewhere in a chat, but the tl;dr was that he didn't choke that game away.
There was one point where he missed a shot he could've made, but that error happened despite being clearly committed to the shot, not because he had second thoughts.
Just because he lost from 0-40 doesn't mean it's a choke.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
That point that got Rafa to 15-40 was ballsy af to play a dropper on. Down 2 sets and 3bp's and you hit a FH drop? What a dude.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Choking is serving for the match lol. Not winning from being up 2 sets isn't choking, it's called tennis and that's how it works, it's not over or ever too late to come back.
Subway Tennis
Legend
That five set win over Haas and then beating Monfils, Del Potro and Soderling Back to back to back in 2009 was ridiculously clutch. Even the final, where he had everything riding on that match and dealing with the idiotic court invader putting the flag on his head, it was spectacular by Fed to pull that off and cope with everything that got thrown his way.
ArcspacE
G.O.A.T.
Wrong - Nadal is the ultimate cheat
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
Is that why Tsitsipas team literally admits that they learned to cheat from Djokovic?
Lol
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
ArcspacE
G.O.A.T.
Mouratoglu has zero credibility - lmfao
ArcspacE
G.O.A.T.
HeyHey spaceboy
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
ArcspacE
G.O.A.T.
Exactly - ZERO credibility
Subway Tennis
Legend
I know the point you are talking about with the missed shot. It was an aggressive backhand crosscourt that Medvedev hit from about 3/4 court that went long. It didnt miss by that much and given how good his backhand had been there was nothing wrong with the shot selection as such. He was just slightly too aggressive with it.
That point was right after Nadal had got it to 15-40 after that ridiculous drop shot.
The other break point that Nadal saved was partially a result of poor shot selection by Med that drew Nadal forward and gave Nadal some opportunity to wrongfoot Medvedev by faking to drop shot but instead knifing a low dirty slice deep that tangled Medvedev up while he was charging towards the net.
Med didnt play the big points as well as Nadal in that crucial game but it definitely wasnt a choke. And the momentum swing itself was kickstarted by Nadal's outrageously risky dropshot wasn't it really?
ArcspacE
G.O.A.T.
Don't be so hard on yourselfWhat a clown
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Smooth hating is hard to find, really.The haters are so mad
accidental
Hall of Fame
Medvedev in 1999
Yeah, Tsitsipas didn't choke. Djokovic just played really off the first 2 sets but once he got in gear, there was little Tsitsipas could do. Tsitsipas just doesn't have the firepower to beat Novak and there's no way he's gonna out-consistent Novak. And on clay, you can't just redline your game and steal a set or two. Only person I've ever seen redline a whole match (on clay) and win was Soderling against Nadal.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
And against Fed the following year.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Medvedeev admited himself that he should have gone for a winner when he had 3 break points...
The match seemed rigged: at 5-5 in the 5th set he used his second serve(instead of first) twice, did a poor DS and missed 2 defensive shots (after having broken Nadal the previous game).
Nadal couln't run with Djoker 4 sets at RG, but now "wasn't tired, although he hadn't trained much"?!
Did the heavy sweating stopped only b/c the weather got cooler as the match progressed, was he dehydrated, or something else was eliminated out of his system by then?
Bender
G.O.A.T.
Yes that backhand was the exact one I was talking about. It was the right shot and the right attitude, and he barely missed it.I know the point you are talking about with the missed shot. It was an aggressive backhand crosscourt that Medvedev hit from about 3/4 court that went long. It didnt miss by that much and given how good his backhand had been there was nothing wrong with the shot selection as such. He was just slightly too aggressive with it.
That point was right after Nadal had got it to 15-40 after that ridiculous drop shot.
The other break point that Nadal saved was partially a result of poor shot selection by Med that drew Nadal forward and gave Nadal some opportunity to wrongfoot Medvedev by faking to drop shot but instead knifing a low dirty slice deep that tangled Medvedev up while he was charging towards the net.
Med didnt play the big points as well as Nadal in that crucial game but it definitely wasnt a choke. And the momentum swing itself was kickstarted by Nadal's outrageously risky dropshot wasn't it really?
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
The thing I find most staggering is how a pro player gets to 26 years of age and still hasn't learnt how to develop his transition game. A younger up and coming player I can understand but 26?! It just makes no sense to me at all.
Medvedev's a great player but if this year's AO final taught him anything it's that a brilliant serve, backhand and incredible retrieving skills aren't always enough, especially against an ATG with vast swathes of experience. Both he and his coach still have much work to do.
Subway Tennis
Legend
Agree.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
Moya forgot that Nadal was up 5-0 against Novak in his quest for 21, had more games with BPs in the second set than Novak but lost it, had set points in the third set but lost it, and won the first two games of the fourth set…and lost it.
Subway Tennis
Legend
From memory even a lot of the net exchanges were going Soderling's way.
No expectation on Soderling to win and he was free to basically swing for the rafters.
Conditions seemed to suit Soderling as well (although I guess 2009 final also had favourable weather conditions for Sod for a lot of the match.)
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