Lance - will they leave him alone?

Status
Not open for further replies.

OTMPut

Hall of Fame
Leave the man alone, pse.

Wire: BLOOMBERG Sports (BSP) Date: Jun 14 2012 6:52:21
Armstrong Says He May Lose Seven Tour Titles in Doping Probe (2)


(Updates with USADA comments in paragraphs 3-4, details of
corporate sponsors in ninth paragraph.)

By Mason Levinson and Michael Buteau
June 13 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency brought
doping charges against Lance Armstrong that may cost him his
record seven Tour de France titles, the cyclist said.
Armstrong also is banned immediately from competing in
triathlons organized by the World Triathlon Corp., which runs
the Ironman series, because of the investigation.
Armstrong, three doctors and two officials from the
cyclist’s former U.S. Postal Service team were notified of the
doping allegations yesterday, USADA Chief Executive Officer
Travis Tygart said in an e-mailed statement. The letter is the
first step in the legal process for alleged doping violations,
Tygart said.
“USADA only initiates matters supported by the evidence,”
Tygart said. “We do not choose whether or not we do our job
based on outside pressures, intimidation or for any reason other
than the evidence.”
Armstrong called the charges “baseless.”
“I have been notified that USADA, an organization largely
funded by taxpayer dollars but governed only by self-written
rules, intends to again dredge up discredited allegations dating
back more than 16 years to prevent me from competing as a
triathlete and try and strip me of the seven Tour de France
victories I earned,” Armstrong said.
The USADA charges, first reported today by the Washington
Post, come after Armstrong’s attorney said the cyclist failed to
meet with the agency by June 8, four days after receiving a
letter offering him an “opportunity to talk about drug use in
cycling.” Robert Luskin, Armstrong’s attorney, wrote in a
letter to USADA that the meeting was a “demand wrapped in a
threat” seeking Armstrong’s confession.

‘This Charade’

“We will not be party to this charade,” Luskin wrote in
the June 8 letter. “Lance has publicly and repeatedly made
clear that he never doped.”
Armstrong, who has endorsement agreements with Nike Inc.,
Trek Bicycle Corp. and Oakley Inc., was scheduled to race his
first professional full Ironman event June 24 in Nice, France,
to try to qualify for the Ironman World Championship in Hawaii
on Oct. 13. World Triathlon has an agreement with Armstrong’s
Texas-based Livestrong charity.
Comcast Corp.’s NBC network said last week it planned to
air this year’s championship race on Oct. 27, six weeks earlier
than usual, and expand the coverage to two hours from 90
minutes. The network said the coverage was expected to focus
heavily on Armstrong.

UCI Statement

Cycling’s world governing body, the International Cycling
Union or UCI, said in a statement that it had been notified of
USADA’s probe. It didn’t identify any of the people involved.
USADA made previously unpublicized allegations against
Armstrong, saying it collected blood samples from him in 2009
and 2010 that were “fully consistent with blood manipulation
including EPO use and/or blood transfusions,” the Post said.
The newspaper cited what it said was a 15-page charging letter
that was sent to Armstrong and several others yesterday, a copy
of which it obtained.
EPO is the abbreviation for erythropoietin, which can add
energy-boosting properties to blood. Doping authorities say that
drug, and transfused blood, have been used by athletes in
endurance sports such as cycling and cross-country skiing to
increase performance.

No Tests

Armstrong never has been publicly identified as testing
positive for performance-enhancing drugs. On Feb. 4, the U.S.
attorney in Los Angeles ended a criminal drug probe involving
Armstrong and his professional bicycle racing team without
filing charges.
USADA also alleges that Armstrong and five former cycling
team associates engaged in a massive doping conspiracy from 1998
to 2011, the Post said.
“These are the very same charges and the same witnesses
that the Justice Department chose not to pursue after a two-year
investigation,” Armstrong said in his statement. “These
charges are baseless, motivated by spite and advanced through
testimony bought and paid for by promises of anonymity and
immunity. Although USADA alleges a wide-ranging conspiracy
extended over more than 16 years, I am the only athlete it has
chosen to charge. USADA’s malice, its methods, its star-chamber
practices and its decision to punish first and adjudicate later
all are at odds with our ideals of fairness and fair play.”

Tour Streak

Armstrong, 40, won the Tour de France, cycling’s most
prestigious event, each year from 1999 to 2005 after surviving
testicular cancer that had spread to his brain and lungs.
He also has helped bring more attention to triathlon since
he returned to the sport on Feb. 12 in Panama, where he finished
second in his first half Ironman 70.3-mile (113-kilometer) race.
He won his last two half Ironman events, which feature a 1.2-
mile swim, 56-mile bike ride and 13.1-mile run. Armstrong
competed as a professional triathlete at 18 before focusing on
cycling.
World Triathlon Corp. rules “dictate an athlete is
ineligible to compete during an open investigation,” the agency
said in an e-mailed statement.
“Armstrong is therefore suspended from competing in WTC-
owned and licensed races pending further review,” according to
the statement.
 

LanEvo

Hall of Fame
I just read that a moment ago, just leave him alone, it has been a good many years now, his stories are in the past, and yet they are still pursuing it.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The evidence is mounting and I don't think there's ever been the meticulous investigation needed given the many ways these drugs can be masked.
 

adventure

Banned
Pretty much every top pro cyclist is doping. There is a negative 2 million % chance that Lance was clean. And that's being generous.

Let's put it this way: you're riding 100 miles a day every day for three straight weeks (2,200 miles) averaging 28 mph ON A BICYCLE FOR THE ENTIRE RACE. And they have several races like this on the pro tour, such as the Giro d' Italia.

This includes time trials where you can't draft anyone, and includes mountains so steep a normal person couldn't walk up them for any period of time.

--

At this point, there has to be legitimate discussion of legalizing PED's. It's happening in MMA with Testosterone Replacement Therapy already.
 

adventure

Banned
I just read that a moment ago, just leave him alone, it has been a good many years now, his stories are in the past, and yet they are still pursuing it.

It's because he's guilty. You don't stop being guilty of a crime after a certain amount of time.
 
D

decades

Guest
there is a pile of evidence out there that points to his culpability with illegal substances. he can run. but he can't hide. apparently.
 

fundrazer

G.O.A.T.
Why should we leave Fraudstrong alone? The man has conned people out of millions through his corporate enterprise, Livestrong. Then there's the fact that he has broken the law...
 

813wilson

Rookie
The evidence is mounting and I don't think there's ever been the meticulous investigation needed given the many ways these drugs can be masked.

B,

I'm not sure I understand that statement. Are you saying the Justice Department's two year investigation wasn't meticulous?

I agree the drugs can be masked - more correctly: not enough labs are testing completely - but I'd think the the LA Attorney's Office - traveling to France, Spain, and multiple US States was pretty meticulous along the way.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
USDA has a wider remit and is the apprpopriate body to invstigate irregularities in sport, not breaches of criminal law:

'The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, which also has been investigating doping allegations against Armstrong and professional cycling, released a statement Friday saying its probe would remain open.

“Unlike the U.S. Attorney, USADA’s job is to protect clean sport rather than enforce specific criminal laws,” USADA chief executive Travis Tygart said. “Our investigation into doping in the sport of cycling is continuing and we look forward to obtaining the information developed during the federal investigation.”

It is unclear whether federal investigators will hand over material obtained in the case, though there is some precedent for doing so. A spokesman in the Los Angeles office declined to comment.'
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The letter from the USDA:


The letter specifically alleges that “multiple riders with firsthand knowledge” will testify that Armstrong used EPO — shorthand for erythropoietin, an endurance-boosting drug — blood transfusions, testosterone and masking agents, and that he distributed and administered drugs to other cyclists from 1998 to 2005. The letter alleges that numerous witnesses will testify that Armstrong also used human growth hormone before 1996.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
They can't legalise PED's because the whole edifice of sport is based on rather moralising premises about human performance that drug use would simply shatter.
 

dParis

Hall of Fame
Why leave him alone? He is cheating scum

By that logic, the Feds, the USDA, et al. are going to spend a hell of a lot of time (and money) investigating men who ride bicycles for sport. But let's make the wild assumption that these investigations are resources well spent, don't you think they should go after "cheating scum" that they would have an easier time pinning a case on?
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
Basically everyone who's ever come out against him or claimed they knew about his/his team's PED use has been subjected to a concerted PR campaign to discredit them or their organisation by Armstrong.

It's likely Armstrong is one of the worst drugs cheat in the history of sport - if not the worst. Cyclists basically can't even compete at the highest level if they're clean - human physiology wont allow the sort of freak athlete people think Armstrong is. Everyone involved in top level cycling knows this, everyone who has retired from it knows this, everyone who is an expert in physiology or blood-work knows it - the only people who don't "know" it are those still doing it or outsiders who only get to hear the odd tidbit from the news - which are usually dominated by the quotable Armstrong muddying the waters by claiming the French hate him or so-and-so has a vendetta against him. The media love it, they lap it up and the average Joe reads the article and sees Armstrong's denial - almost always mentioned near/alongside his work for Cancer - and it seems somehow believable.

The problem he faces if this continues are his PR machine has been so strong on denials and attacks on others for so long they simply can never back down from it now.
 
Last edited:

jonnythan

Professional
If Lance doped, and I don't concede that he did, everyone else did so too.

So Lance Armstrong either doped and steamrolled the rest of the dopers for 7 years, or he was clean and steamrolled a doped field for 7 years.
 

volleygirl

Rookie
because the really good cheaters are ALWAYS two steps ahead of the drug testing agencies. the dopers know how the tests are administered and what they are looking for and the procedures. easy for them to counteract drug testing. as we've seen with sports stars who most people suspect very strongly of having used PED's -- it's really hard to convict them of any wrongdoing. barry bonds, roger clemens, lance armstrong come to mind.



I know its tough to convict them, but the sports cant still ban them even if a court of law cant find them guilty. If there was a lifetime ban for a first time failed test, I think it would deter most athletes.
 

volleygirl

Rookie
If Lance doped, and I don't concede that he did, everyone else did so too.

So Lance Armstrong either doped and steamrolled the rest of the dopers for 7 years, or he was clean and steamrolled a doped field for 7 years.


Everyone else did to? Thats your defense for Lance? How do you know everyone else did to if youre wanting to give Lance the benefit of the doubt?
 

jonnythan

Professional
Everyone else did to? Thats your defense for Lance? How do you know everyone else did to if youre wanting to give Lance the benefit of the doubt?

A number of prominent cyclists that he beat, such as Ullrich (got 2nd to Lance 3 times) and Basso, have actually failed drug tests and gotten doping bans.

So, doping or not, we know he was beating top-level guys who were definitely doping.
 

volleygirl

Rookie
A number of prominent cyclists that he beat, such as Ullrich (got 2nd to Lance 3 times) and Basso, have actually failed drug tests and gotten doping bans.

So, doping or not, we know he was beating top-level guys who were definitely doping.


I am not argueing that. I know a lot were cheating but ban them all so a guy who isnt cheating can actually get credit for his accomplishment instead of letting a guy become a false hero by winning 6 or 7 times
 

fundrazer

G.O.A.T.
Mounting??? It's the same old evidence........you don't think that the French would have LOVED to nail him....trust me the Frenchnofficals did all they could to prove he doped and nothing came of it. The US went after him.....nothing. Now we have another one.....I bet it's more sour grapes than anything as they asked to meet with him and he told them to shove it. The fact hat he has been tested over 500 times over the years with ZERO positives.....the whole sport was/is full of doping - so freaking what. Let's go back to every single medal winner in the Olympics from the Eastern Block from the 50s until today and lets see how many pass those tests. Hell I bet half of the "female" medal winners from that period are actually all male.

If you don't know what you're talking about then please do not post.

They have found that certain parameters from his blood in 2009 and 2010 were consistent with that of doping and EPO use. Not to mention the "tested 500 times" defense means absolutely nothing.
 

volleygirl

Rookie
If you don't know what you're talking about then please do not post.

They have found that certain parameters from his blood in 2009 and 2010 were consistent with that of doping and EPO use. Not to mention the "tested 500 times" defense means absolutely nothing.


It amazes me how many people try to deflect around Lances cheating. Americans hated the Russians and East German Olympians back then because we thought they were cheating and our athletes were clean yet now our American athletes cheat as much if not more than anyones on the planet. Lance, Marion Jones, and almost every MVP in baseball for 15-20 years cheated and for some reason people just want to legalize the PEDs instead of punishing the cheaters.
 

jonnythan

Professional
It amazes me how many people try to deflect around Lances cheating. Americans hated the Russians and East German Olympians back then because we thought they were cheating and our athletes were clean yet now our American athletes cheat as much if not more than anyones on the planet. Lance, Marion Jones, and almost every MVP in baseball for 15-20 years cheated and for some reason people just want to legalize the PEDs instead of punishing the cheaters.

It amazes me how you make unsupported claims.
 

jonnythan

Professional
I wasnt talking about you. Its a fact that lots of people want Lance to be left alone no matter how much he cheated. Are you denying that?

I can't speak for other people.

I am talking about you. You made two claims:

1) almost every MVP in baseball for 15-20 years cheated
2) Lance cheated

#1 is ridiculous and is completely unsupported by anything at all. #2 is less ridiculous but far from proven.
 

volleygirl

Rookie
I can't speak for other people.

I am talking about you. You made two claims:

1) almost every MVP in baseball for 15-20 years cheated
2) Lance cheated

#1 is ridiculous and is completely unsupported by anything at all. #2 is less ridiculous but far from proven.


I dont know what planet youve been living on if you want to argue that the MVPs from 1993-2007 werent loaded with roiders. Even the players who finished 2nd in many of those years have made comments to MLB that they should be awarded the MVP since the guy who finished ahead of them was cheating. Heres a small list of those guys most people either know cheated or have good STRONG suspicions they cheated. (Mo Vaughn, Jeff Bagwell, Juan Gonzalez 2 MVPs, Ken Caminitti, Sammy Sosa, Jason Giambi, Ivan Rodriguez, Barry Bonds 4 tainted MVPs, Miguel Tejada, Alex Rodriguez 3 MVPs, Vlad Guerrero) Even a few years before those we had Kevin Mitchell, Ricky Henderson and Jose Canseco. Canseco brought roids into the game for a lot of players and listed almost everyone of these guys as cheaters and hes been right everytime hes outed someone.

Its called the STEROID era for a reason
 
Last edited:

user92626

G.O.A.T.
If you don't know what you're talking about then please do not post.

They have found that certain parameters from his blood in 2009 and 2010 were consistent with that of doping and EPO use. Not to mention the "tested 500 times" defense means absolutely nothing.

It seems to me that you're the one who don't know what you're talking about!

Test results can be very arbitrary. This allegation brings up many questions. Why only 09-10 when Lance was already winning consecutively many years prior to that? This suggests that they do have a lousy, unreliable testing system in place or if not, Lance really had what it took to be a champion (i'm not saying he's 100% clean but he's way acceptably clean within the culture of pro cycling.)



It's also very weird and backward that officials conduct testing and ruling this way. Race results have long been in and over. Their claimed mission is to prevent cheaters. In 5-7 years (the time Lance was winning) they couldn't come up with anything to stop Lance, if he was cheating, why now? If anything they're embarrassing the sport they're associated with. Their sport's champion is a cheater, the title goes to the runner-up, and who knows in 10, 20 years from now one day somehow they'll come up with test "parameters" and say even the runner-up is also a cheater. All the while cycling championship is tainted and full of doubts!!!!
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I think there should be a limit to harassment. If the Justice Dept could not find anything, it should end there. I hope a lawsuit is filed and judge asked to intervene and stop this nonsense.

If he has been doping, it should have been up to the enforcers to have proved it by now. If they could not, they have to give up. Unfortunately, the double jeopardy clause in the constitution only pertains to criminal prosecutions and this seems to violate the spirit of it, even if it is legal.
 

adventure

Banned
I am not argueing that. I know a lot were cheating but ban them all so a guy who isnt cheating can actually get credit for his accomplishment instead of letting a guy become a false hero by winning 6 or 7 times

Watch your mouth when you address me in the future volleygirl.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
Thing whole argument about 500 tests etc is facetious. Everyone in the business knows the best get the best access to the latest concoctions or methodology for taking PEDs. That's why the top guys rarely ever get caught.

Even when Ben Johnson was caught in 1988 it was a surprise what he got caught for by many - since it was one of the easier detectable drugs out there. Since then drugs came along which were, for ages, undetectable by whatever the current test was. And the efforts companies go to to develop new formulas and pair up with the top athletes is well evident (BALCO etc). For cycling the avenue for gains to be made are on par with swimming and ahead of most athletics disciplines so there is little doubt there are many companies around the world constantly trying to pick talents and approach them with offers of sporting immortality.

To think this process hasn't continued with the best guys keeping a step ahead of the testing regime is naive. Armstrong knows this so his attacks have focussed on the testing organisation specifically to make it look as if their collection, labelling, storage etc for all these years has been unreliable - so as to give him a nicely framed defence when newer tests are made to re-test old samples, which is what is on the cards here.

We will see experts who will claim that long storage can cause levels of certain chemicals to become greater, that darkness or light can also do the same. That the glue used to hold the labels on was notoriously un-sticky, that someone involved in the process went to school 40 years ago with a French rider Armstrong beat at some stage.... etc. His PR machine is in top gear with the one purpose: to make everything you read look murky/shady/unreliable - because he knows massive public opinion support is something he cannot live without.

If his fortress starts to get a few cracks in it it'll come down in a heap pretty quickly. But, still, he will have tons of supporters regardless.
 
Last edited:

OTMPut

Hall of Fame
Whatever. You still have to ride and win Tour de France. It is not that you can get an injection and you are handed the trophy seven times.

He is still (and will be) regarded as an extraordinary athelete. It is an incredible feat to come out of chemotherapy and win that race.
 

fundrazer

G.O.A.T.
It seems to me that you're the one who don't know what you're talking about!

Test results can be very arbitrary. This allegation brings up many questions. Why only 09-10 when Lance was already winning consecutively many years prior to that? This suggests that they do have a lousy, unreliable testing system in place or if not, Lance really had what it took to be a champion (i'm not saying he's 100% clean but he's way acceptably clean within the culture of pro cycling.)



It's also very weird and backward that officials conduct testing and ruling this way. Race results have long been in and over. Their claimed mission is to prevent cheaters. In 5-7 years (the time Lance was winning) they couldn't come up with anything to stop Lance, if he was cheating, why now? If anything they're embarrassing the sport they're associated with. Their sport's champion is a cheater, the title goes to the runner-up, and who knows in 10, 20 years from now one day somehow they'll come up with test "parameters" and say even the runner-up is also a cheater. All the while cycling championship is tainted and full of doubts!!!!

Lance is not cycling's champion. There's more to cycling then just winning the Tour. Heck, there's actually THREE Grand Tours in cycling.

Also go read about Lances samples from 2001 Tour de Suisse that were swept under the rug.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The Justice Department has too limited a legal remit to investigate these things; and double jeopardy couldn't possibly apply because it applies only to a trials and there's been none.




I think there should be a limit to harassment. If the Justice Dept could not find anything, it should end there. I hope a lawsuit is filed and judge asked to intervene and stop this nonsense.

If he has been doping, it should have been up to the enforcers to have proved it by now. If they could not, they have to give up. Unfortunately, the double jeopardy clause in the constitution only pertains to criminal prosecutions and this seems to violate the spirit of it, even if it is legal.
 

Andres

G.O.A.T.
Just legalize the PED's already!!!

They can't legalise PED's because the whole edifice of sport is based on rather moralising premises about human performance that drug use would simply shatter.
The problem with legalizing PEDs and allowing them all to use it, is that most of them will still push the boundaries trying to come up with better and most effective PEDs. If they all use EPO freely, someone will come up with something better, and that "·$% is probably gonna kill a lot of cyclists.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
The Justice Department has too limited a legal remit to investigate these things; and double jeopardy couldn't possibly apply because it applies only to a trials and there's been none.

That is why a judge needs to step in. This seems to be one of the cases where the government is involved (the USADA is kind of quasi government). With deep pockets, they can make anyone's life miserable and can make people think anything about a person.

I remember the Ramsey case and how many times it was investigated, till everyone in the country believed they were guilty - till it was proven wrong. There should be a law against excessive harassment, especially for minor things like this (sports). Who cares if he was doping or not? It is a very thin case even to call it a crime, let alone investigate like this as if he has killed someone.
 

dParis

Hall of Fame
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bassons-and-simeoni-say-armstrong-probe-is-overdue

The incident with Simeoni in particular disgusts me. That's when I got an idea of the real Lance.

I read the article. Are you referring to a deeper back-story not discussed in the article? Armstrong was talking trash to a guy who couldn't whip him on the road so he tried to take care of him in the courts. None of these guys are angels, so I don't find anything "particularly disgusting" about Armstrong's actions.
 

fundrazer

G.O.A.T.
What's not to understand?

"Filippo Simeoni was involved in his own notorious spat with Armstrong at the 2004 Tour de France. Two years earlier, Simeoni had testified before an Italian magistrate that doctor Michele Ferrari had advised him to use EPO and testosterone in 1997, a claim that prompted Armstrong to brand Simeoni an “absolute liar” in an interview with Le Monde in 2003. The following year at the Tour, Armstrong thwarted Simeoni’s breakaway attempts and allegedly threatened to “destroy” the Italian in a mid-race exchange on stage 18."

Lance purposely ruined Simeoni's chances at a stage victory out of the breakaway. Lance had no business going into the break other than to force the peleton to pull back Simeoni.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
..the double jeopardy clause in the constitution only pertains to criminal prosecutions and this seems to violate the spirit of it, even if it is legal.
Regardless, it only applies to cases which were pursued, not just investigations.

There is no "spirit of double jeopardy" - it's clear what is and isn't covered. Regardless, ever sport is well within its rights to lay down the criteria by which people are allowed to compete. If they choose not to they can be taken to task over it regardless of whatever criminal activities have or haven't occurred (or can/can't be proven). Criminal statute of limitations are irrelevant also with regards to a sporting body's own set of rules.
 

dParis

Hall of Fame
What's not to understand?

"Filippo Simeoni was involved in his own notorious spat with Armstrong at the 2004 Tour de France. Two years earlier, Simeoni had testified before an Italian magistrate that doctor Michele Ferrari had advised him to use EPO and testosterone in 1997, a claim that prompted Armstrong to brand Simeoni an “absolute liar” in an interview with Le Monde in 2003. The following year at the Tour, Armstrong thwarted Simeoni’s breakaway attempts and allegedly threatened to “destroy” the Italian in a mid-race exchange on stage 18."

Lance purposely ruined Simeoni's chances at a stage victory out of the breakaway. Lance had no business going into the break other than to force the peleton to pull back Simeoni.

I'm looking at this through the perspective that we are talking about professional cyclists and not Boy Scouts. It appears this proven doper, Simeoni, had not won a single Tour de France stage prior to, or since, the 2004 Tour incident. Who does he blame for that? Anyhow, what obligation does Armstrong have to let this guy win a stage, especially since there were issues between the two? I still don't see what is "particularly disgusting" about what Armstrong did but then again, I'm not a cycling enthusiast, so I'll take your word for it.
 

Andreas1965

Rookie
I'm looking at this through the perspective that we are talking about professional cyclists and not Boy Scouts. It appears this proven doper, Simeoni, had not won a single Tour de France stage prior to, or since, the 2004 Tour incident. Who does he blame for that? Anyhow, what obligation does Armstrong have to let this guy win a stage, especially since there were issues between the two? I still don't see what is "particularly disgusting" about what Armstrong did but then again, I'm not a cycling enthusiast, so I'll take your word for it.
Cycling is a sport with tradition. One thing common among riders is that the leader of a stage race NEVER should go for a stage win if there are other, minor riders to win the stage. The yellow jersey (at TDF) shouldn't hunt down escapees. It's simply a no-go.
Look at other great champions, like Indurain or Lemond. They just never did such things.
Armstrong wasn't a patron to the Tour, he was a bully.
His behaviour during those TDF-wins might now result in merciless actions from the press and all the others.
 

dParis

Hall of Fame
Cycling is a sport with tradition. One thing common among riders is that the leader of a stage race NEVER should go for a stage win if there are other, minor riders to win the stage. The yellow jersey (at TDF) shouldn't hunt down escapees. It's simply a no-go.
Look at other great champions, like Indurain or Lemond. They just never did such things.
Armstrong wasn't a patron to the Tour, he was a bully.
His behaviour during those TDF-wins might now result in merciless actions from the press and all the others.

Thanks. I suspected Armstrong's actions ran afoul of TdF custom. It's not like the action was completely unprovoked, though. Also, in a vengeful act, Simeoni attempted (unsuccessfully) to upstage Armstrong on the final, ceremonial stage of the TdF.
 

Andreas1965

Rookie
Thanks. I suspected Armstrong's actions ran afoul of TdF custom. It's not like the action was completely unprovoked, though. Also, in a vengeful act, Simeoni attempted (unsuccessfully) to upstage Armstrong on the final, ceremonial stage of the TdF.
Not only TdF custom. It's the same at all stage races.
For example, 2 riders successfully escape, one of them could take the lead. So it is good custom that the other rider will win the stage, so that both have their share. One gets the leader's jersey, the other one the stage win. So it was for more than 100 years, and I hope it'll stay like that another century.

Whenever a rider doesn't follow these "rules", he can be sure that he'll not make it for "employee of the month" :wink:
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Regardless, it only applies to cases which were pursued, not just investigations.

There is no "spirit of double jeopardy" - it's clear what is and isn't covered. Regardless, ever sport is well within its rights to lay down the criteria by which people are allowed to compete. If they choose not to they can be taken to task over it regardless of whatever criminal activities have or haven't occurred (or can/can't be proven). Criminal statute of limitations are irrelevant also with regards to a sporting body's own set of rules.

But the sports stuff eventually leads to a criminal case. That is the issue. I don't see why violations in sports should lead to criminal cases.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top