Moving from 3.0 to 3.5 Men's Singles

[FiguringItOut]

Hey folks!

Long prelude to this post, but my question for y'all is at the bottom ;-)

I never played highschool or college tennis. I'll be 50 in 3 months. I'm very healthy, but not supremely fit, but am fast and agile for a man my age. I'm 5'7".
As a child, I longed to play tennis, but my parents never took the cues.
As my three children hit their teens years and were more independent, I began to give a little time to exploring playing the game. Local town league. Then USTA League, some 3.0 and 3.5 Singles, some 6.0/7.0 Doubles.
Last year, I Captained for the first time: LOVED IT. Team went to States.
I'm sharing all this to help you understand my development - in fits and spurts and out of order and learning the sport, learning me, learning not just technique, but patterns, how to compete, etc. etc.
I'm presently working with a Sports Psych 'cause my Daddy issues were wreaking havoc on the tennis court :-|. Probably the best money I've ever spent on myself.

Very recently, I've decided I just don't like Doubles. With the remaining fitness, health, time, and energy I have to become as good as I can with what I have and the time I have left on this Earth, I want to focus as much as possible on Competitive Singles.

After a full year playing 3.0 Men's Singles, I'm revisiting 3.5 Singles - hadn't played at that level for a bit because I had to face that I was deluding myself about my skill and fitness and ego and attitude and mental strength.
Now, after taking lessons for technique, losing 10 lbs, getting a sports shrink, and now having a better understanding of the USTA at a local level, I feel I have a solid (and way more realistic) understanding of what to expect from local tennis, local competitive tennis, and me.

So - this post is kind of homework between my Sports Psych visits - but it is VERY MUCH me being interested in any help y'all can give.
So, in my area, greater Raleigh, NC, a 40+ Men's 3.0 player will win his match if he has decent technique on serve and only one side of groundstrokes. Groundstrokes on both sides, being fit, having a strong second serve, and knowing how to volley and hit overheads really aren't necessary. That's what I've concluded.

Having played 3.5 tennis some years before, but having 2 guys who are 3.5 players I practice with, and now will be competing against nothing but come Summer Singles 2022, I've noticed a dramatic leap in skill:
Guys at 3.5 have both sides ground strokes, both slices, depth, pace, and placement
They volley
They hit smashes
Their serves can jam you up or kick off your strings if you try to just block it back
They are fit - you can't just outlast them by keeping the ball in play

I've never won a 3.5 match. My chess is equaled or outclassed. My fitness is matched or surpassed. Though it's come a long way, my forehand is inconsistent (because I tend to plant too soon and don't take adjustment steps before hitting the ball - and because of the work 3.5s put on the ball, adjustment steps are needed - new skill for me). I feel like, if it was a practice session, an observer wouldn't peg me as the 3.0 on the court amongst 3.5s. But when it gets to play, they beat me handily. Now, plenty of 30/40 and Deuce games, but lose enough of them and the score-line can still look like 6-0, 6-1. No one's gonna know or care that the games weren't 40-Love blow-outs.

SO HERE's WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR: What thoughts, observations, personal mindset changes, etc. did y'all experience as you moved up and what worked to get you established as a solid 3.5 player?
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

@FiguringItOut

SO HERE's WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR: What thoughts, observations, personal mindset changes, etc. did y'all experience as you moved up and what worked to get you established as a solid 3.5 player?

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!

I never spent much time at a low intermediate (3.0) level because. I had already established decent spatial / hand-eye coordination skills with another sport, ping pong (in junior high school).

I had previously developed throwing and catching skills prior to the age of 7 or 8. This early development makes it much easier to attain a decent level for many tennis players (for younger or older players as well). If you missed this age window (5-8 yrs or so), it might make your journey quite a bit longer. Even foot / soccer skills during this age period can be extremely helpful.

For young students who did not have this background, this is something we worked on quite a bit along with tennis skills.

If you miss this development in your younger years, or are just not a very natural athlete, then you really have your work cut out for you. Try to work on these skills as much as possible and on the tennis court.

Another thing I would suggest, is taking some private (or small group) lessons to make sure that you have developed some very consistent, repeatable stroke mechanics. This might be extremely helpful in your own development and transition from a low intermediate to a high intermediate level.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Another thing that you might need to work on is some basic tennis footwork patterns. Also focus on primarily on semi-open and neutral stances rather than extreme open stances and very closed stances. The latter, locks / limits your hip rotation and tends to make your strokes relay on too much arm / shoulder -- rather than a full kinetic chain.

Stay away from extreme grips at your level. Something between an Eastern and SW grip for the Fh -- not Continental or full W. For serves, go with a Continental or semi-continental (Aussie) grip if you have not already done so.

I did not read your TL/DR text so I do not know if you have a one-handed or a two-handed backhand. My eyes were not up to the task. So, which is it?

Very important. Try to keep your head very still once you have started your forward swing on your Fh and Bh strokes. Shortly after your forward swing has commenced, you should fix your gaze at your expected contact point. Alternately, you might fix your gaze slightly forward of that extra contact point instead. In either case, it is important to your eyes and head still until AFTER you hear your own contact. Moving your head prior to this, can result in a loss of consistency or clean strokes that will go exactly where you want them to go.

For your serve, besides utilizing a proper serve grip (not a panhandle or a Fh grip), you want to develop a decent upward throwing motion that utilizes rotation of the forearm and the shoulder. This means, that your racket will be "on edge" for your racket drop (after the trophy) and for the first half of your upward swings to contact.

Try taking some old / used rackets out to the park (grassy area) and practice some steep upward throws. Launch the racket at 60° to 75° upward. The initial throws could be "on edge" as if throwing an ax or tomahawk upward. After a half dozen or more of these, add some rotation of the hand (using the forearm &/or shoulder) before releasing the racket for your throw. This should help to develop forearm pronation and/or shoulder rotation for a proper serve

 

[eah123]

From 3.0 to 3.5, I really think the only difference is consistency.

What are the things that can increase your consistency? I recommend:
1) Make sure to start your unit turn early so it is finished before the bounce on both wings.
2) be very disciplined on the timing of both wings. Saying “bounce-hit” in my head really works for me. At the bounce, you should be loading/coiling.
3) Use your footwork to take the ball at the optimal height on both wings as much as possible. For me, that’s hip height.
4) Learn to hit good slice forehand and backhand in order to keep yourself in the point and give yourself time when the ball is hit wide to you.
5) If not doing already, practice serve a lot. If you can’t serve consistently, it’s very hard to win.

 

[MyFearHand]

Hey folks!

Long prelude to this post, but my question for y'all is at the bottom ;-)

I never played highschool or college tennis. I'll be 50 in 3 months. I'm very healthy, but not supremely fit, but am fast and agile for a man my age. I'm 5'7".
As a child, I longed to play tennis, but my parents never took the cues.
As my three children hit their teens years and were more independent, I began to give a little time to exploring playing the game. Local town league. Then USTA League, some 3.0 and 3.5 Singles, some 6.0/7.0 Doubles.
Last year, I Captained for the first time: LOVED IT. Team went to States.
I'm sharing all this to help you understand my development - in fits and spurts and out of order and learning the sport, learning me, learning not just technique, but patterns, how to compete, etc. etc.
I'm presently working with a Sports Psych 'cause my Daddy issues were wreaking havoc on the tennis court :-|. Probably the best money I've ever spent on myself.

Very recently, I've decided I just don't like Doubles. With the remaining fitness, health, time, and energy I have to become as good as I can with what I have and the time I have left on this Earth, I want to focus as much as possible on Competitive Singles.

After a full year playing 3.0 Men's Singles, I'm revisiting 3.5 Singles - hadn't played at that level for a bit because I had to face that I was deluding myself about my skill and fitness and ego and attitude and mental strength.
Now, after taking lessons for technique, losing 10 lbs, getting a sports shrink, and now having a better understanding of the USTA at a local level, I feel I have a solid (and way more realistic) understanding of what to expect from local tennis, local competitive tennis, and me.

So - this post is kind of homework between my Sports Psych visits - but it is VERY MUCH me being interested in any help y'all can give.
So, in my area, greater Raleigh, NC, a 40+ Men's 3.0 player will win his match if he has decent technique on serve and only one side of groundstrokes. Groundstrokes on both sides, being fit, having a strong second serve, and knowing how to volley and hit overheads really aren't necessary. That's what I've concluded.

Having played 3.5 tennis some years before, but having 2 guys who are 3.5 players I practice with, and now will be competing against nothing but come Summer Singles 2022, I've noticed a dramatic leap in skill:
Guys at 3.5 have both sides ground strokes, both slices, depth, pace, and placement
They volley
They hit smashes
Their serves can jam you up or kick off your strings if you try to just block it back
They are fit - you can't just outlast them by keeping the ball in play

I've never won a 3.5 match. My chess is equaled or outclassed. My fitness is matched or surpassed. Though it's come a long way, my forehand is inconsistent (because I tend to plant too soon and don't take adjustment steps before hitting the ball - and because of the work 3.5s put on the ball, adjustment steps are needed - new skill for me). I feel like, if it was a practice session, an observer wouldn't peg me as the 3.0 on the court amongst 3.5s. But when it gets to play, they beat me handily. Now, plenty of 30/40 and Deuce games, but lose enough of them and the score-line can still look like 6-0, 6-1. No one's gonna know or care that the games weren't 40-Love blow-outs.

SO HERE's WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR: What thoughts, observations, personal mindset changes, etc. did y'all experience as you moved up and what worked to get you established as a solid 3.5 player?
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!

Hey, small world I'm a 5.0 player also in the Raleigh area.

As someone else mentioned, the big difference between 3.0 and 3.5 is not making stupid errors. Focus on footwork, if you're in more or less the right place but don't have great technique you still have a solid chance of getting the ball back on their court. Aim to big targets, generally cross court. Also give yourself 3-4 feet of margin over the net when you can. The higher you aim the deeper your shots will tend to go as well which is an added benefit. At the end of the day you're a 3.0-3.5 level player, that means you have a lot of gaps in your game. Try to just focus on one or two things to improve at a time. If you focus on those things and you're doing them well consider your practice/match a success whether you won or lost. If you really focus on 1-2 things for a few months before you move to the next 1-2 things it's impossible not to improve.

I think a lot of players tend to get caught up in whatever didn't work well on that day. The next practice they focus on that, but the next match something else goes wrong and the cycle repeats. This really traps people at the same level for a long time.

 

[FiddlerDog]

Good call on avoiding doubles. It is not real tennis.
At 50, you have another 15-20 years where you can still compete even as a 4.0 singles

At 3.5, you will see everything.
Dinkers with no form all the way to 3.5 guys who crush the ball harder than college players.
Yes, I've played with both college players and with 3.5 players

The best advice for you is not to try to win.
Play high level tennis and ignore short term results.
Your true goal is to reach 4.0, not to win at 3.5
Do not develop a game style that only works at 3.5
That is missing the true purpose of the journey, which is to reach your max potential

 

[FiddlerDog]

What are you actually learning from the sports psych?
As a 3.0, you still need to learn how to correctly hit a tennis ball.
Mental game is a moot point when you don't even have real strokes yet.
Spend your money on stroke lessons with college tennis players.

 

[Cashman]

You will not succeed at 3.5 without a pair of white wraparound sunglasses and a 9 racquet bag

 

[xFullCourtTenniSx]

Just play like fearhand. Never miss a fking ball and make the other guy play 10 great balls to beat you, because short of being a really high level player, they won't. Also helps to keep every ball deep. If you can get every ball to bounce past the service line, that's a good start. If you can get balls to rise as they pass the baseline, even better. Play a personal game with yourself, how many balls can you hit past the service line in a row in a competitive point. Then make it past halfway into no man's land. Then the same, except going crosscourt. In the mean time, learn to use a continental grip on serves and hit a very spinny slice serve.

 

[Morch Us]

No one's gonna know or care that the games weren't 40-Love blow-outs.

Here is a mindset change needed.
No one's gonna care even if they were 40-0 blow outs on your loss.
No one's gonna care even if you won 6-0 6-0 with 40-0 on every game.
Stop thinking that everyone around is "watching" and looking at your results.
Play to "WIN" every point, and don't play for your "pride". 7-6 loss is same as 6-0 loss. Nothing more nothing less.

(Hint: if you remember you were losing games at 30:40, then your focus is at the wrong place. You won't even remember the score of the past game, with the correct focus of winning every game, every point).

I've never won a 3.5 match.

Well, good thing is you have a lot of room for improvement. Without knowing your play style or skills or deficiencies, it is hard to say what are the low hanging fruits for you. But generally, you should be able to win a 3.5 match if you

1. Get on average 2 more extra balls back than what you do now on average.
2. Stop giving too much importance for pace on your shots, and give more importance for depth on shots.
3. Get consistent on your serve and returns. No excuse for giving away free points on either (even if that means you are not trying too hard for getting free points).
4. Generally stop trying to do "Federar shots" and look good on court (remember no-one cares). Be consistent and let the opponent make errors (for now). Your technique is not complete, and so understand that and give tons of margin. (luckily your opponent playing 3.5 match also have not developed his technique and so he WILL make errors, if you let him).

I am not saying you have to be a pusher. But give a lot of importance for concistency and depth (and margin, especially from sidelines and net). And not much for power or sideline touching winners. If you make errors, they better be baseline errors (depth).

 

[user92626]

Hey folks!


SO HERE's WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR: What thoughts, observations, personal mindset changes, etc. did y'all experience as you moved up and what worked to get you established as a solid 3.5 player?
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!

YOu should definitely bookmark this site and visit it often.

This place is specialized in making 3.5 players.

 

[travlerajm]

Hey folks!

Long prelude to this post, but my question for y'all is at the bottom ;-)

I never played highschool or college tennis. I'll be 50 in 3 months. I'm very healthy, but not supremely fit, but am fast and agile for a man my age. I'm 5'7".
As a child, I longed to play tennis, but my parents never took the cues.
As my three children hit their teens years and were more independent, I began to give a little time to exploring playing the game. Local town league. Then USTA League, some 3.0 and 3.5 Singles, some 6.0/7.0 Doubles.
Last year, I Captained for the first time: LOVED IT. Team went to States.
I'm sharing all this to help you understand my development - in fits and spurts and out of order and learning the sport, learning me, learning not just technique, but patterns, how to compete, etc. etc.
I'm presently working with a Sports Psych 'cause my Daddy issues were wreaking havoc on the tennis court :-|. Probably the best money I've ever spent on myself.

Very recently, I've decided I just don't like Doubles. With the remaining fitness, health, time, and energy I have to become as good as I can with what I have and the time I have left on this Earth, I want to focus as much as possible on Competitive Singles.

After a full year playing 3.0 Men's Singles, I'm revisiting 3.5 Singles - hadn't played at that level for a bit because I had to face that I was deluding myself about my skill and fitness and ego and attitude and mental strength.
Now, after taking lessons for technique, losing 10 lbs, getting a sports shrink, and now having a better understanding of the USTA at a local level, I feel I have a solid (and way more realistic) understanding of what to expect from local tennis, local competitive tennis, and me.

So - this post is kind of homework between my Sports Psych visits - but it is VERY MUCH me being interested in any help y'all can give.
So, in my area, greater Raleigh, NC, a 40+ Men's 3.0 player will win his match if he has decent technique on serve and only one side of groundstrokes. Groundstrokes on both sides, being fit, having a strong second serve, and knowing how to volley and hit overheads really aren't necessary. That's what I've concluded.

Having played 3.5 tennis some years before, but having 2 guys who are 3.5 players I practice with, and now will be competing against nothing but come Summer Singles 2022, I've noticed a dramatic leap in skill:
Guys at 3.5 have both sides ground strokes, both slices, depth, pace, and placement
They volley
They hit smashes
Their serves can jam you up or kick off your strings if you try to just block it back
They are fit - you can't just outlast them by keeping the ball in play

I've never won a 3.5 match. My chess is equaled or outclassed. My fitness is matched or surpassed. Though it's come a long way, my forehand is inconsistent (because I tend to plant too soon and don't take adjustment steps before hitting the ball - and because of the work 3.5s put on the ball, adjustment steps are needed - new skill for me). I feel like, if it was a practice session, an observer wouldn't peg me as the 3.0 on the court amongst 3.5s. But when it gets to play, they beat me handily. Now, plenty of 30/40 and Deuce games, but lose enough of them and the score-line can still look like 6-0, 6-1. No one's gonna know or care that the games weren't 40-Love blow-outs.

SO HERE's WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR: What thoughts, observations, personal mindset changes, etc. did y'all experience as you moved up and what worked to get you established as a solid 3.5 player?
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!

I’ll be coming to the RDU area for work in 3 weeks. Would be happy to hit with you if you’re game.

 

[ChaelAZ]

What thoughts, observations, personal mindset changes, etc. did y'all experience as you moved up and what worked to get you established as a solid 3.5 player?
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!

With that prelude you sound both excited and worried about the level of play and how you will do. S first off, drop any expectations of how things will play out on court, how well or bad you might do, or any thoughts of win or loss. The only thing you should do is enjoy the higher competition level, and with that just strive to compete as well as you can. That alone will help how you play and how you feel through the start.

Second, as others have mentioned, mentally focus on developing points. For me, I started to keep my mind in points a little longer, looking to pressure and move opponents to cause errors over worrying about hitting a winner. At 3.5 MOST points will be won on opponents errors, so keeping in the point is important and not going for winners mentally and physically helps. Give yourself margins for both.

And then, enjoy yourself as much as possible and be a good sport as you compete and learn. Way back when I worried too much about ratings, set scores, blah, blah. Just really sucked at times and would linger for a few days even. Don't be that guy!

Enjoy man. Congrats on the bump.

 

[Injured Again]

Agree with those who say that at your point in tennis development, it would be a good idea to have a few sessions with a coach to make sure you eliminate major technique issues. Once you're swinging at the ball with better technique, your lowest hanging fruit will be footwork and positioning. Get into position as often as possible and apply a good swing. Footwork becomes more important as you move up in skill level so working on this aspect early will help speed up your development. Good luck!

 

[FiguringItOut]

What are you actually learning from the sports psych?
As a 3.0, you still need to learn how to correctly hit a tennis ball.
Mental game is a moot point when you don't even have real strokes yet.
Spend your money on stroke lessons with college tennis players.

I appreciate the skepticism. But when I was getting up 4-0. 4-1 on guys and then imploding, it was because I felt responsible for protecting their egos. Like I said, Daddy issues.
The Sports Psych has helped me structure the way I get into a competitive performance and how I exit competitive performance.
He's helped me rediscover the joy and fun of tennis.
He's helped me realize that my intellect isn't a crutch in place of skills (which is what I was telling myself), but that it is my greatest asset in my competitive game.
He's helped me to start building a competitive philosophy anchored in my intellect and my backhand, that, if I can brag, people test and then stay away from.
He's helped me see that I have had ZERO understanding of playing defensively.
So that's that so far. Hope that helped! I've found it very valuable.
But your point about building physical technique is taken.
Just this week, I joined a local practice squad.
Thank you!

++++

One last point, I hate the new NTRP ratings based on scorelines. I'm 3.0 in their system because I was a headcase. Not because I don't know "how to correctly hit a tennis ball".
Go pound sand with your incomplete understanding of human beings and your presumptions.
More sports psych fruit there ;-)

 

[FiguringItOut]

Here is a mindset change needed.
No one's gonna care even if they were 40-0 blow outs on your loss.
No one's gonna care even if you won 6-0 6-0 with 40-0 on every game.
Stop thinking that everyone around is "watching" and looking at your results.
Play to "WIN" every point, and don't play for your "pride". 7-6 loss is same as 6-0 loss. Nothing more nothing less.

(Hint: if you remember you were losing games at 30:40, then your focus is at the wrong place. You won't even remember the score of the past game, with the correct focus of winning every game, every point).



Well, good thing is you have a lot of room for improvement. Without knowing your play style or skills or deficiencies, it is hard to say what are the low hanging fruits for you. But generally, you should be able to win a 3.5 match if you

1. Get on average 2 more extra balls back than what you do now on average.
2. Stop giving too much importance for pace on your shots, and give more importance for depth on shots.
3. Get consistent on your serve and returns. No excuse for giving away free points on either (even if that means you are not trying too hard for getting free points).
4. Generally stop trying to do "Federar shots" and look good on court (remember no-one cares). Be consistent and let the opponent make errors (for now). Your technique is not complete, and so understand that and give tons of margin. (luckily your opponent playing 3.5 match also have not developed his technique and so he WILL make errors, if you let him).

I am not saying you have to be a pusher. But give a lot of importance for concistency and depth (and margin, especially from sidelines and net). And not much for power or sideline touching winners. If you make errors, they better be baseline errors (depth).

Very valuable feedback.
The "imaginary audience" you fingered it part of what I'm working out with my Sports Psych. Good intuition there.
Thank you!

 

[FiguringItOut]

I’ll be coming to the RDU area for work in 3 weeks. Would be happy to hit with you if you’re game.

Hit me up via my website: www.ClarkChristianCounseling.com. Peace -

 

[FiguringItOut]

With that prelude you sound both excited and worried about the level of play and how you will do. S first off, drop any expectations of how things will play out on court, how well or bad you might do, or any thoughts of win or loss. The only thing you should do is enjoy the higher competition level, and with that just strive to compete as well as you can. That alone will help how you play and how you feel through the start.

Second, as others have mentioned, mentally focus on developing points. For me, I started to keep my mind in points a little longer, looking to pressure and move opponents to cause errors over worrying about hitting a winner. At 3.5 MOST points will be won on opponents errors, so keeping in the point is important and not going for winners mentally and physically helps. Give yourself margins for both.

And then, enjoy yourself as much as possible and be a good sport as you compete and learn. Way back when I worried too much about ratings, set scores, blah, blah. Just really sucked at times and would linger for a few days even. Don't be that guy!

Enjoy man. Congrats on the bump.

THANK YOU!!!!!! Seems like you get it, get me where I'm at, and were speaking to my head and attitude, which is my biggest weakness, THANK YOU!

 

[FiddlerDog]

But when I was getting up 4-0. 4-1 on guys and then imploding, it was because I felt responsible for protecting their egos

1) It is not my problem if opponent has not worked as hard as I have. Tough **** for them. No mercy.
2) They would stab you in the eyeball, if it meant they would win. No mercy.

 

[FiguringItOut]

Just wanted to update everyone. I bumped from 3.0 to 3.5 Singles for Summer League. I've lost 3 matches, but I for the first time, I won a 3.5 Singles match. Y'all's posts helped me be realistic about what I would face in my opponents and what to expect from and develop in my own game. So, thank you!

 

[nyta2]

what worked to get you established as a solid 3.5 player?

what got me to 3.5:
consistent serve (no double faults!)
a consistent fh that i can hit to the bh (typically the weaker wing)

 

[mucat]

I agree with MyFearHand. It is all about getting the ball back.
The #1 rule is get the ball back no matter how (push, poke, whatever). If the ball allows it, get it back with interest (pace, spin, depth, direction, etc). Choose smart and easy placement, big target, diagonal, lots of margin above the net.
In term of mindset, you need to be patient, willing to be there all day. If you panic or impatient or too eager everytime you see a defensive shot (lob, moonball, junk etc.) from your opponent, you will lose.

 

[PJ78]

Thanks for posting, was nice to read and congrats on the bump up. I was curious if your also taking formal tennis lessons ? You seem quite dedicated to improving and at the 3.5 level there is probably a high value in having someone look at your stokes and finding technical improvements to optimize your hitting, and learning how to manage different types of shots that come at you. I found that at this level the most valuable thing that made me comfortable in games was really practicing to improve technique so when applied to a game I knew that I would consistent.
Athough I don’t discount the value of having a mental edge , one thing that struck me in your OP was that 3.5 have a greater comfort in making many different types of strokes which to me is mostly a technical issue of getting the technique to a point that your comfortable executing it in a game.

 

[Shroud]

You will not succeed at 3.5 without a pair of white wraparound sunglasses and a 9 racquet bag

and tournagrip...that is a 3.5 badge of honor...yes I use it.

 

[Cobaine]

Can you make a video and post it? It’s usually easier to opine on what you need to work on most if we can see you play.

 

[FiguringItOut]

what got me to 3.5:
consistent serve (no double faults!)
a consistent fh that i can hit to the bh (typically the weaker wing)

I've seen that combo ALOT, LOL! What they don't know is that my backhand is my strength - I'm amazed at how they keep going there for 2 straight sets. Brain not on, LOL

 

[FiguringItOut]

I agree with MyFearHand. It is all about getting the ball back.
The #1 rule is get the ball back no matter how (push, poke, whatever). If the ball allows it, get it back with interest (pace, spin, depth, direction, etc). Choose smart and easy placement, big target, diagonal, lots of margin above the net.
In term of mindset, you need to be patient, willing to be there all day. If you panic or impatient or too eager everytime you see a defensive shot (lob, moonball, junk etc.) from your opponent, you will lose.

Guilty of not providing enough margin and being too eager. I beat myself MOST matches. Noted. Thanks!

 

[FiguringItOut]

Thanks for posting, was nice to read and congrats on the bump up. I was curious if your also taking formal tennis lessons ? You seem quite dedicated to improving and at the 3.5 level there is probably a high value in having someone look at your stokes and finding technical improvements to optimize your hitting, and learning how to manage different types of shots that come at you. I found that at this level the most valuable thing that made me comfortable in games was really practicing to improve technique so when applied to a game I knew that I would consistent.
Athough I don’t discount the value of having a mental edge , one thing that struck me in your OP was that 3.5 have a greater comfort in making many different types of strokes which to me is mostly a technical issue of getting the technique to a point that your comfortable executing it in a game.

Great thoughts! Yes, have an instructor - but to-date, it's only been when I need to work on something - not regular lessons. We'll get there, but time and money right now...

My problem is actually too much variety. At 3.0, too much time to think about what I want to hit and too many executable strokes to choose from. Sounds arrogant I know, but it's the truth. I spent a year at 3.0 AS a 3.0 (2.97 dynamic rating when I made that choice to play at my level rather than to play up) and in after a year, I'm in danger of dipping below 2.5 (dynamic rating) because I just have TOO much time to think and I overhit and I'm over-eager to kill the softball. So I chose to play up and the pace of the game at 3.5 makes me play from the 'flow state' more and my instincts take over. As I posted, I won my first match at 3.5 in my life, and the ones I lost: A. Were WAY more enjoyable B. Were 30 and Deuce games (so contested) C. My opponent was likely pushing 4.0 and I just had to applaud my butt being handed to me at points throughout the match.

Where you highlighted the need for technical, my issue has been my head. If you find me elsewhere on the boards you'll see I shared I also hired a Sports Psychologist to help me detangle my "daddy issues" from the man on the other side of the net, believe I belong calling myself an 'athlete' and a tennis player, respecting my opponent, be accepting of however the ball comes back over the net instead of having judgment towards "pushers", etc. etc. etc.

If, by now, you're thinking Nick Kyrgios - yeah, pretty much. Except about a foot shorter and without the cool accent, LOL.

"Managing the different kinds of shots that come at you" - yeah, I'm still pretty green competitively, relatively speaking. There are times someone will hit a ball and I'll think, "Well, never saw a ball do THAT before".

Thanks!

 

[FiguringItOut]

Can you make a video and post it? It’s usually easier to opine on what you need to work on most if we can see you play.

Wow. Humbled you'd want to check it out and terrified, LOL. Let me work on getting some footage. It could be weeks/months. Daughter is getting married out of state so I played the first half of the league matches and have scheduled myself out until Fall League starts. If I get some practice matches set up, I'll record. "I'll be Bach". ;-)

 

[nyta2]

I've seen that combo ALOT, LOL! What they don't know is that my backhand is my strength - I'm amazed at how they keep going there for 2 straight sets. Brain not on, LOL

then i’d have lost

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Very valuable feedback.
The "imaginary audience" you fingered it part of what I'm working out with my Sports Psych. Good intuition there.
Thank you!

The best video I've seen on the mental side:

 

[travlerajm]

I've seen that combo ALOT, LOL! What they don't know is that my backhand is my strength - I'm amazed at how they keep going there for 2 straight sets. Brain not on, LOL

As a fellow player who has a better bh than fh, when I warm up with a new opponent, I purposely miss warmup backhands and do my best to look smooth and confident on my forehand, running around my bh.

This is usually enough to get my opponent targeting my stronger wing for at least the bulk of the match.

 

[MoxMonkey]

Hey folks!

Long prelude to this post, but my question for y'all is at the bottom ;-)

I never played highschool or college tennis. I'll be 50 in 3 months. I'm very healthy, but not supremely fit, but am fast and agile for a man my age. I'm 5'7".
As a child, I longed to play tennis, but my parents never took the cues.
As my three children hit their teens years and were more independent, I began to give a little time to exploring playing the game. Local town league. Then USTA League, some 3.0 and 3.5 Singles, some 6.0/7.0 Doubles.
Last year, I Captained for the first time: LOVED IT. Team went to States.
I'm sharing all this to help you understand my development - in fits and spurts and out of order and learning the sport, learning me, learning not just technique, but patterns, how to compete, etc. etc.
I'm presently working with a Sports Psych 'cause my Daddy issues were wreaking havoc on the tennis court :-|. Probably the best money I've ever spent on myself.

Very recently, I've decided I just don't like Doubles. With the remaining fitness, health, time, and energy I have to become as good as I can with what I have and the time I have left on this Earth, I want to focus as much as possible on Competitive Singles.

After a full year playing 3.0 Men's Singles, I'm revisiting 3.5 Singles - hadn't played at that level for a bit because I had to face that I was deluding myself about my skill and fitness and ego and attitude and mental strength.
Now, after taking lessons for technique, losing 10 lbs, getting a sports shrink, and now having a better understanding of the USTA at a local level, I feel I have a solid (and way more realistic) understanding of what to expect from local tennis, local competitive tennis, and me.

So - this post is kind of homework between my Sports Psych visits - but it is VERY MUCH me being interested in any help y'all can give.
So, in my area, greater Raleigh, NC, a 40+ Men's 3.0 player will win his match if he has decent technique on serve and only one side of groundstrokes. Groundstrokes on both sides, being fit, having a strong second serve, and knowing how to volley and hit overheads really aren't necessary. That's what I've concluded.

Having played 3.5 tennis some years before, but having 2 guys who are 3.5 players I practice with, and now will be competing against nothing but come Summer Singles 2022, I've noticed a dramatic leap in skill:
Guys at 3.5 have both sides ground strokes, both slices, depth, pace, and placement
They volley
They hit smashes
Their serves can jam you up or kick off your strings if you try to just block it back
They are fit - you can't just outlast them by keeping the ball in play

I've never won a 3.5 match. My chess is equaled or outclassed. My fitness is matched or surpassed. Though it's come a long way, my forehand is inconsistent (because I tend to plant too soon and don't take adjustment steps before hitting the ball - and because of the work 3.5s put on the ball, adjustment steps are needed - new skill for me). I feel like, if it was a practice session, an observer wouldn't peg me as the 3.0 on the court amongst 3.5s. But when it gets to play, they beat me handily. Now, plenty of 30/40 and Deuce games, but lose enough of them and the score-line can still look like 6-0, 6-1. No one's gonna know or care that the games weren't 40-Love blow-outs.

SO HERE's WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR: What thoughts, observations, personal mindset changes, etc. did y'all experience as you moved up and what worked to get you established as a solid 3.5 player?
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!

I am in this transition as well. Here's some things I've noticed so far.

One of the biggest differences I've noticed between 3.0 and 3.5 is the court awareness, positioning of my opponents.

Also while there are some weaker 2nd serves(myself included) there aren't many 'just bunt it over' servers

Slice hackers are still here, but they're better at it. They keep the ball lower and angle it better.

Pure pushers are less common, but still around. I still end up 'beating myslef' against these players more often than I'd like.

Most failed lobs and or high short balls get put away. At 3.0 theres a punchers chance of that ball being mis hit.

Some people can serve bombs.

The pool of players seems to be bigger and there are less purely casual players. Not everyone is super serious, but overall there's a lot more work being done to improve and to keep up ones game.

As far as what I need to do to have success at 3.5 is to improve net play. This is moreso in doubles, but would be good for singles too. Having a good overhead is essential imo. I can get by defensively and reflex volleying, although having more directional and pace control would be quite helpful.

In singles I'd say having a stronger serve would be the best benefit, especially 2nd serve.

 

[FiguringItOut]

UPDATE and NEW QUESTIONS/ISSUES:
Have won 1 match at 3.5. The rest have been bagel or breadstick losses. I'm still learning what a 3.5 opponent and can do and not do. HOWEVER, the last 3 matches I've been getting more pressure on my opponents - 40/30 and Deuce games MOST games - so I'm gaining momentum...

ISSUE:
As I wrote before here, at 3.0 I had too-much variety coupled with too-much time to think. My sports psych has helped me see that my mind CAN be an asset on the court. So. Yesterday, non-USTA match. 3.5 opponent. 0-6, 4-6 loss. I'd figured out better return-of-serve positions, where to serve (placement, spin, pace) to expose his weaknesses, etc. But on HIS service games - even though he had no real placement control/variety and I had placed myself to turn my returns into a weapon - I found myself thinking, "Change it up. He's going to get used to this. Show him something new." - As if my position on court - greatly effective - wasn't as good as simply doing something new and unexpected.

So I'm wondering - has anyone exposed a weakness in an opponent and just did it all match long? Like - Serve wide, return, winner to the other corner. Again and again just because the other guy just couldn't answer it. Seems silly (and boring) - but this often happens to me: I'll figure out the weakness and go after it for a while - and then I can't tell if I get bored OR some part of me feels it is cruel to just squeeze a guy like that all match long.

QUESTION;
At 3.0, I had plenty time to have a conversation in my head like this:
"Return serve with a slice backhand, regardless of ball height, depth, or pace - down the line". Everything moved so slow I could make all the adjustments I needed to execute my plan.

What I'm noticing at 3.5 is there is more pace, better placement, and different spins. So, like yesterday, I had my 'opening chess move' ready and the serve that came made my opening chess move the WORST possible thing to have tried, LOL.

I have ALWAYS played better when the point is moving fast enough that I can just react/be in flow state. I've hit volleys in my life that were WAAAAAAAY out of my usual prowess because it was ALL feel/brain off.

SO HERE'S THE QUESTION FOR YOU ADVANCED PLAYERS (and forgive me if this is a sloppily asked question): When do you decide how you're going to hit the ball...? Like I said at 3.0, EVERY ball I had time to run around, slice, come over, dink, lob, etc. At 3.5 I have less of that (so I think I'm trying to plan my shot a few moves ahead like one would in chess) so I'm locking myself into my selection BUT the point isn't moving fast enough to be in reactive flow state so that the brain is off.

Help?? LOL!
Thanks!

 

[optic yellow]

ngl helping you would be about 1000x easier with some video of your play in matches

 

[travlerajm]

UPDATE and NEW QUESTIONS/ISSUES:
Have won 1 match at 3.5. The rest have been bagel or breadstick losses. I'm still learning what a 3.5 opponent and can do and not do. HOWEVER, the last 3 matches I've been getting more pressure on my opponents - 40/30 and Deuce games MOST games - so I'm gaining momentum...

ISSUE:
As I wrote before here, at 3.0 I had too-much variety coupled with too-much time to think. My sports psych has helped me see that my mind CAN be an asset on the court. So. Yesterday, non-USTA match. 3.5 opponent. 0-6, 4-6 loss. I'd figured out better return-of-serve positions, where to serve (placement, spin, pace) to expose his weaknesses, etc. But on HIS service games - even though he had no real placement control/variety and I had placed myself to turn my returns into a weapon - I found myself thinking, "Change it up. He's going to get used to this. Show him something new." - As if my position on court - greatly effective - wasn't as good as simply doing something new and unexpected.

So I'm wondering - has anyone exposed a weakness in an opponent and just did it all match long? Like - Serve wide, return, winner to the other corner. Again and again just because the other guy just couldn't answer it. Seems silly (and boring) - but this often happens to me: I'll figure out the weakness and go after it for a while - and then I can't tell if I get bored OR some part of me feels it is cruel to just squeeze a guy like that all match long.

QUESTION;
At 3.0, I had plenty time to have a conversation in my head like this:
"Return serve with a slice backhand, regardless of ball height, depth, or pace - down the line". Everything moved so slow I could make all the adjustments I needed to execute my plan.

What I'm noticing at 3.5 is there is more pace, better placement, and different spins. So, like yesterday, I had my 'opening chess move' ready and the serve that came made my opening chess move the WORST possible thing to have tried, LOL.

I have ALWAYS played better when the point is moving fast enough that I can just react/be in flow state. I've hit volleys in my life that were WAAAAAAAY out of my usual prowess because it was ALL feel/brain off.

SO HERE'S THE QUESTION FOR YOU ADVANCED PLAYERS (and forgive me if this is a sloppily asked question): When do you decide how you're going to hit the ball...? Like I said at 3.0, EVERY ball I had time to run around, slice, come over, dink, lob, etc. At 3.5 I have less of that (so I think I'm trying to plan my shot a few moves ahead like one would in chess) so I'm locking myself into my selection BUT the point isn't moving fast enough to be in reactive flow state so that the brain is off.

Help?? LOL!
Thanks!

1. When you find a way to exploit your opponent’s weakness, keep doing it. It’s highly unlikely that a rec player is going to find a solution to the problem you’ve exposed during the course of the match. Take the points and shake hands, then let him work on fixing it later.

2. I suggest figuring out your go-to confident stroke for each type of ball. On the high sitter, are you better at stabbing a slice approach? Or driving it with topspin? Whichever is high % for you, just own it until it becomes automatic.

 

[FiguringItOut]

ngl helping you would be about 1000x easier with some video of your play in matches

Fall League, I'm on 2 3.5 Teams (different age brackets). I'll have time and opportunity then...

 

[FiguringItOut]

1. When you find a way to exploit your opponent’s weakness, keep doing it. It’s highly unlikely that a rec player is going to find a solution to the problem you’ve exposed during the course of the match. Take the points and shake hands, then let him work on fixing it later.

2. I suggest figuring out your go-to confident stroke for each type of ball. On the high sitter, are you better at stabbing a slice approach? Or driving it with topspin? Whichever is high % for you, just own it until it becomes automatic.

So simple, yet that's never occurred to me. I think I prize novelty as a factor of being a great tennis player, for some reason...
I will think on this, 'cause that would definitely grease my brain and cut down on over-thinking errors.
Thanks!

 

[optic yellow]

Fall League, I'm on 2 3.5 Teams (different age brackets). I'll have time and opportunity then...

I assume based on the thread being from April you'll deliver on that. People can obviously help you with what you describe to them but when they watch you they can pick up on things you didn't notice yourself more easily than they can from inferring them. I should try to give feedback based on that post which I'll do later if other people haven't said it all already.

 

[travlerajm]

I’ll be in the area again Friday thru Thur.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

So simple, yet that's never occurred to me. I think I prize novelty as a factor of being a great tennis player, for some reason...
I will think on this, 'cause that would definitely grease my brain and cut down on over-thinking errors.
Thanks!

Novelty and surprise are over-rated: your opponent has been playing for years - what's the chance that you'll be able to surprise him enough and have enough variety to really catch him off-guard the entire match? You're much better off finding a weakness and pummelling it even if you're completely predictable.

For example, if I figure out my opponent doesn't like me coming to the net, guess what I'm going to be doing? I could wear a sign stating "I'm coming to the net!!" and it wouldn't make much of a difference.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

SO HERE'S THE QUESTION FOR YOU ADVANCED PLAYERS (and forgive me if this is a sloppily asked question): When do you decide how you're going to hit the ball...? Like I said at 3.0, EVERY ball I had time to run around, slice, come over, dink, lob, etc. At 3.5 I have less of that (so I think I'm trying to plan my shot a few moves ahead like one would in chess) so I'm locking myself into my selection BUT the point isn't moving fast enough to be in reactive flow state so that the brain is off.

Help?? LOL!
Thanks!

The return is the only shot I reliably have some time to think before the shot. So if my returns are going well, I might press the issue and get more aggressive. But whatever I "decide", reality dictates my return; I have to be ready to react.

Otherwise, I simply play the odds. If I'm in a CC rally, the most likely opponent shot will be another CC unless I know something about his DTL tendencies or can pick up some kind of tell. I only have to radically change my shot if something unusual happens [ie a let cord, he changes patterns, a shank, etc.].

And remember: the more you play, the more accustomed you'll get to this new pace. After a while, your previous level will seem slow and the new level will be normal. So don't despair; give your body and mind a chance to catch up.

Also, in the short-run, I'd worry less about planning several shots ahead and more about the here and now.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Tennis stroke techniques involve a set of specific sub-motions. Learn to see these sub-motions in high speed videos. For the ATP & WTA, the line between the 2 shoulders turns back roughly 90 degrees and forward roughly 90 degrees on most strong ground strokes where they are not pressured.

Become aware of these sub-motions and decide what to do about it.

 

[optic yellow]

For the ATP & WTA, the line between the 2 shoulders turns back roughly 90 degrees and forward roughly 90 degrees on most strong ground strokes where they are not pressured.

You should put this in your sig imo.

 

[Chas Tennis]

You should put this in your sig imo.

I don't often read other poster's signatures.

Have you been looking at the turn back/turn forward angles of the ATP & WTA groundstrokes?

If more overhead camera views were available from start to impact, it would become more obvious to everyone.

 

[optic yellow]

I don't often read other poster's signatures.

Have you been looking at the turn back/turn forward angles of the ATP & WTA groundstrokes?

If more overhead camera views were available from start to impact, it would become more obvious to everyone.

I think they're not because they're not good for showing the actual tennis match. I have not studied that video but I know I should. I am trying to not take too much fun out of tennis though. I have a bad habit of letting work overtake games I am supposed to be playing for fun.