moving up from 4.0-4.5

[Ad0ut]

I'd consider myself a pretty solid 4.0. I can put up a good fight against most lower end 4.5 players, but struggle to take sets, usually either barely taking the set 7-6 or 7-5, or losing 6-3.

Playing up in a 4.5 league for the first time this year and got creamed 6-2, 6-0 in singles by a guy that's been playing 4.5 for 10 years. Had almost every game go to deuce, but really couldn't close the deal on any of them. He also aced me on almost every break point I held, which was really frustrating.

Losing really pisses me off and I am using this as motivation to get better. The question is...how and what should I focus on? Currently, I just play a really scrappy counterpunching (maybe some would call it pusherish) game. I serve with decent pace and accuracy, but I'm not going to ace anyone or get a lot of free points. My strength lies in my groundstrokes and consistency. I rarely make groundstroke errors. My volleys are above average, and I have a so-so overhead. Basically, I play the percentages and only go on the offensive when I get a short ball inside the service line.

To sum up, for anyone who knows from experience, what does it take to move up from a 4.0 to a 4.5? I'm in my late 20s and in good shape, so no fitness issues to worry about.

 

[LeeD]

You already listed your strengths and weaknesses.
Never good to have good volley but "so so" overheads. The two cancel each other out.
Average serve a good starting point, unless you like baseline bashing and playing long points. Then you gotta work on depth from all positions along the baseline, to keep opponents off the net.
Baseliners usually have great returns of serve. Work there. Keep the ball 3' over the netcord but deep or to an open court.
You just entered 4.5, don't ever expect a 10 year vet to lose to you.
Experience DOES count. You don't have it yet.

 

[Ad0ut]

Yeah, I definitely don't expect a 10 year 4.5 vet to lose to me. I also know I can't beat that guy, but I do know I had many chances to make it more competitive, i.e, a 6-3, 6-3 loss or something.

I do like baseline bashing and playing long points, but I would like the points to come easier. Based on what you're saying, I think my goals for this summer will be to improve the variety in my serves and work on my crappy overhead.

Got any tips on working on the overhead solo? Hard to find someone who will feed me overheads non-stop without paying them.

 

[LeeD]

The famous wall helps 50%.
Play doubles and force yourself and your partner to take the net most points. You WILL get to hit multiple overheads every couple of games.
Don't backpeddle, that's for us old farts. Instead, turn sideways and crabhop back for the ball, lining up your oft hand and shoulder to the ball, swing 3/4 speed first serve technique, unless you want to slice it for the angle. Start your swing from trophy position, racket point straight up. This shortens your prep time from a real serve technique. Aim service line deep and up the middle 70% of the time. The rest is angled.

 

[Lefty5]

At 4.0 you can beat a LOT of guys just by not making the error. At 4.5 you need to be actively trying to win the point. Not saying you have to go out and blast winners all day long and abandon your game. Rather you need to construct the point and be aggressive when it makes sense to so you can force your opponent out of his comfort zone. Depth is key.

 

[Tennisman912]

Ad0ut,

Consistency is good and important but at the 4.5 level, you need to be able to finish points consistently. The plan of just staying back and being really consistent just won’t work at this level because this player has more options and more weapons (and can hit them consistently) and knows how to take advantage of openings. If you don’t keep it deep all the time, the first short or semi short ball is going to put you seriously on the defensive.

The fact he aces you every time it matters should tell you how the advanced player has many gears and only uses what they need to win and always has plenty in reserve for when it is needed. It may also say he isn’t threatened by you and thus saves his best or biggest serves for the rare opportunities you get to take advantage (don't let this bother you though).

The reason your style is so successful at 4.0 is the players either don’t have the consistency to hang with someone who is consistent (whether mental or not) and/or don’t have the weapons to put the counter puncher on the off balance defensive for the length of a whole match. There is the rub. The advanced players (4.5+) do.

The best way to compete is a couple of things. First, shot selection. The more advanced the player, the better they are at knowing which shot to hit at the right time. They don’t make the mental errors of the lower levels of over hitting a shot when the extra pace isn’t needed and donating points they have set themselves up to win. Second, they have more offensive skills (granted most of them). My point being unless you have the skills to keep it deep always and run for days, sooner or later a shot ball is going to come from you. When it does, the 4.5+ will hit a strong shot consistently to set up a winning shot, either on that shot or the next couple. So you need to learn to get out of your consistency comfort zone (which is a good place to be coming from) and learn how to be more aggressive at the right moments. That again gets back to knowing when to hit the ball harder/more aggressively and when not too. That takes time and experience to learn. So you also need to learn how to consistently put pressure on your opponent when you get the opportunity. Without the ability to end points, most advanced players given enough chances, will put you away eventually.

Must also be able to hit an overhead. If the player is smart, they will bring you in and if you can’t hit an overhead they will feed you many of them. They also will be testing if you can take advantage of a short ball given to you. If you can’t, you cannot out last them with consistency, as it is only a matter of time. There are many combinations to test these and many other things to try but I would probably throw in some deep rollers to get you behind the base line and then give you a short ball to bring you in. Then I will pass you or lob you as I wish if you can’t put away that short ball, especially after covering that much court. Also consider, most counter punchers are more comfortable moving side to side and not as much forward and backward (again, may or may not be applicable to you).

To summarize, learn to hit the right shot at the right time, be more aggressive when you have the advantage and work on that overhead and aggressive approach. Then it is just a matter of gaining the experience and putting all these (and many other things) together before you will start seeing consistent success. It takes time and there is no way (unfortunately) to speed up the learning curve. If you actively learn on the court, that will speed things up. But if you don’t learn things and pay attention and keep track of what is really happening on the court (as opposed to what you think is happening) it will take a long time.

Best of luck

TM

 

[Bud]

I'd consider myself a pretty solid 4.0. I can put up a good fight against most lower end 4.5 players, but struggle to take sets, usually either barely taking the set 7-6 or 7-5, or losing 6-3.

Playing up in a 4.5 league for the first time this year and got creamed 6-2, 6-0 in singles by a guy that's been playing 4.5 for 10 years. Had almost every game go to deuce, but really couldn't close the deal on any of them. He also aced me on almost every break point I held, which was really frustrating.

Great thread and question.

This is the same issue I'm having right now with many 4.5's. I can't close the deal on deuce and ad games :-?

I played a 4.5 last night with a beautiful and consistent 1st and 2nd kick serve... and still got to deuce or ad in 80% of the games. Just couldn't push through that final bit. I lost 6-2, 6-1

I chatted with the fellow and he made some observations about my game. He said my footwork is average and needs improvement (he stated I need to split-step and recover after each stroke). He noticed me flatfooted several times and he stated that just increased his overall confidence. He also stated I go for too much when unbalanced and out of position (which I'm very aware of). Also, on any weak ball of mine... he'd immediately place me in a defensive position (something he noted and I also noticed during the match).

He also reminded me that when approaching the net... go to his backhand DTL... not CC to his FH (I know I should do this but the CC just seems like a more natural shot). However, CC is hitting to his strength and leaves the entire court wide open.

This is why we play those that are better than us... I never worry about things like this when playing equivalent or lower level players... since they don't have the weapons to exploit these weaknesses.

At 4.0 you can beat a LOT of guys just by not making the error. At 4.5 you need to be actively trying to win the point. Not saying you have to go out and blast winners all day long and abandon your game. Rather you need to construct the point and be aggressive when it makes sense to so you can force your opponent out of his comfort zone. Depth is key.

This pretty much hits the nail right on the head. In general, I notice these exact same things when comparing 4.0 to 4.5 players. I knew during my match last night that if I didn't keep the ball deep I was going to pay and be placed immediately in a defensive position... knowing that placed additional pressure on me.

 

[Ad0ut]

Thanks to all for your helpful comments and insights.

Thinking back on the match, I do now realize certain things I could have done to make it more competitive. My opponent himself pointed out that had I gone for greater angles on my groundstrokes (not necessarily more pace), it would have put him out of position to leave me bigger openings to finish the point. I still have a lot of work to do before I can entertain the thought of beating a 10 year 4.5 veteran, but I do realize that on some points, I shifted into 4.0 consistency safe mode. Against most 4.0s, I have no problems keeping the ball deep and to their weakness. Inevitably, after 4 or 5 hits, they'll go for a big shot, which they miss, or which I can usually run down. Along with trying to get more freebies on my serve, and working on the overhead to round out my game, I suppose I can also use easy opponents as an opportunity to work on constructing points with the goal of putting myself in an offensive position, instead of trying to maintain a neutral position, which is the way i usually play.

 

[Ad0ut]

At 4.0 you can beat a LOT of guys just by not making the error. At 4.5 you need to be actively trying to win the point. Not saying you have to go out and blast winners all day long and abandon your game. Rather you need to construct the point and be aggressive when it makes sense to so you can force your opponent out of his comfort zone. Depth is key.

good point. i have the ability to finish points i think, but my mentality while playing needs to change. i'm usually very content just rolling the ball back deep and waiting for errors. i need to work on taking more high percentage chances to close out points, instead of just hitting another deep cross court rally shot.

 

[Ad0ut]

Ad0ut,

Consistency is good and important but at the 4.5 level, you need to be able to finish points consistently. The plan of just staying back and being really consistent just won’t work at this level because this player has more options and more weapons (and can hit them consistently) and knows how to take advantage of openings. If you don’t keep it deep all the time, the first short or semi short ball is going to put you seriously on the defensive.

The fact he aces you every time it matters should tell you how the advanced player has many gears and only uses what they need to win and always has plenty in reserve for when it is needed. It may also say he isn’t threatened by you and thus saves his best or biggest serves for the rare opportunities you get to take advantage (don't let this bother you though).

The reason your style is so successful at 4.0 is the players either don’t have the consistency to hang with someone who is consistent (whether mental or not) and/or don’t have the weapons to put the counter puncher on the off balance defensive for the length of a whole match. There is the rub. The advanced players (4.5+) do.

The best way to compete is a couple of things. First, shot selection. The more advanced the player, the better they are at knowing which shot to hit at the right time. They don’t make the mental errors of the lower levels of over hitting a shot when the extra pace isn’t needed and donating points they have set themselves up to win. Second, they have more offensive skills (granted most of them). My point being unless you have the skills to keep it deep always and run for days, sooner or later a shot ball is going to come from you. When it does, the 4.5+ will hit a strong shot consistently to set up a winning shot, either on that shot or the next couple. So you need to learn to get out of your consistency comfort zone (which is a good place to be coming from) and learn how to be more aggressive at the right moments. That again gets back to knowing when to hit the ball harder/more aggressively and when not too. That takes time and experience to learn. So you also need to learn how to consistently put pressure on your opponent when you get the opportunity. Without the ability to end points, most advanced players given enough chances, will put you away eventually.

Must also be able to hit an overhead. If the player is smart, they will bring you in and if you can’t hit an overhead they will feed you many of them. They also will be testing if you can take advantage of a short ball given to you. If you can’t, you cannot out last them with consistency, as it is only a matter of time. There are many combinations to test these and many other things to try but I would probably throw in some deep rollers to get you behind the base line and then give you a short ball to bring you in. Then I will pass you or lob you as I wish if you can’t put away that short ball, especially after covering that much court. Also consider, most counter punchers are more comfortable moving side to side and not as much forward and backward (again, may or may not be applicable to you).

To summarize, learn to hit the right shot at the right time, be more aggressive when you have the advantage and work on that overhead and aggressive approach. Then it is just a matter of gaining the experience and putting all these (and many other things) together before you will start seeing consistent success. It takes time and there is no way (unfortunately) to speed up the learning curve. If you actively learn on the court, that will speed things up. But if you don’t learn things and pay attention and keep track of what is really happening on the court (as opposed to what you think is happening) it will take a long time.

Best of luck

TM

Great tips. Thanks for taking the time to write that. Looks like I have a lot of work to do this summer, but that's what makes tennis so fun. There is always someone around who can kick my ass and give me motivation to improve. You're spot on about shot selection. I am definitely too content to just keep the ball deep rather than try to put extra pressure on my opponent.

My overhead isn't as terrible as I make it sound, but it's definitely not up to par with the rest of the game. I can get great placement with it, but it lacks pace, and thus I often need to hit 2 or 3 to finish points instead of 1. Obviously, this sometimes leads to errors on my part or giving a good player another chance to win the point.

 

[Ad0ut]

I played a 4.5 last night with a beautiful and consistent 1st and 2nd kick serve... and still got to deuce or ad in 80% of the games. Just couldn't push through that final bit. I lost 6-2, 6-1

I chatted with the fellow and he made some observations about my game. He said my footwork is average and needs improvement (he stated I need to split-step and recover after each stroke). He noticed me flatfooted several times and he stated that just increased his overall confidence. He also stated I go for too much when unbalanced and out of position (which I'm very aware of). Also, on any weak ball of mine... he'd immediately place me in a defensive position (something he noted and I also noticed during the match).

He also reminded me that when approaching the net... go to his backhand DTL... not CC to his FH (I know I should do this but the CC just seems like a more natural shot). However, CC is hitting to his strength and leaves the entire court wide open.

Sounds like you had a good learning experience just like I did. It's great that your opponent gave you some tips afterwards though. I'm sure you, like I, will learn a lot from the loss and be a better player for the next match.

 

[supineAnimation]

I think point construction is a big part of the difference between 4.0 and 4.5. As someone mentioned, 4.0 points are often about who makes the error first. 4.5s tend to construct points better and, to an even greater degree, have series of combinations that they try to employ on a regular basis. Relaxation and solid technique go a long way towards allowing you to think clearly and make good decisions about where and how to hit the ball in point play, but I'd advise you to develop a few reliable combinations that you can rely on. Watch someone like Federer or Murray (well, prior to the last couple of months for Murray) and you'll see just how often they use combinations that setup disadvantageous shots from their opponents or advantageous shots for them, and a lot of them are very simple setups that you can copy. There are lots of ways to win points, obviously, but I know whenever I've played 4.0s I could often rely on winning a lot of points by disrupting the guy's technique - hitting with a lot of depth and spin or short-angled and flat or with slice - and keeping him from hitting the ball the way he wanted to which would often give me a ball to put away or take control with. Can't rely on that as much in 4.5s, so you have to use strategy and point construction more. But for my money, playing 4.5s is A LOT more fun than 4.0s and I'd rather lose points because the other guy hits a great shot or puts together a good combination than win points on unforced errors. Good luck.

 

[NLBwell]

Work on your serve!

 

[Slazenger07]

I would agree with the observations that said you have to force the issue more to win points against a 4.5 you cant just rely on them making errors, I know this because Im a solid 4.5 and I dont give you much, consistentcy is the foundation of my game, typically I am able to outlast my 4.0 level opponents. I really think what it comes down to is how well you play the big points. Alot of the 4.0's in my doubles group and that I play singles with are pretty good in the pressure situations but me and a few other guys that are 4.5's play our best at the big moments typically, if I dont Im having an off moment but most of the time Im bringing everything Ive got on the big points. Thats a big part of getting to 4.5 from 4.0.

 

[NLBwell]

Again, work on your serve. How many times did you ace him on break point? It is totally in your control.

 

[LeeD]

Slaz 07, you really DO need to play in a better crowd to knock the chip off your shoulders.
As a 4.5 wasting your time with 4.0's, how can you use that as a measure of your game?
When I made B's, or 4.5's, I went directly to A, Open, and ProQ's. That was the measure of my game, not players around 3.5-4.5 levels.
You have plenty of good and great advice, but you always mix in your own measure of your greatness for us to "enjoy".

 

[larry10s]

I would agree with the observations that said you have to force the issue more to win points against a 4.5 you cant just rely on them making errors, I know this because Im a solid 4.5 and I dont give you much, consistentcy is the foundation of my game, typically I am able to outlast my 4.0 level opponents. I really think what it comes down to is how well you play the big points. Alot of the 4.0's in my doubles group and that I play singles with are pretty good in the pressure situations but me and a few other guys that are 4.5's play our best at the big moments typically, if I dont Im having an off moment but most of the time Im bringing everything Ive got on the big points. Thats a big part of getting to 4.5 from 4.0.

its easy to be confident on the big points when you are 4.5 playing against 4.0. if you are 4.5 you are SUPPOSED to be more consistent etc. thats why you are 4.5 not 4.0. wouldnt be so proud that at 4.5 you beat 4.0s. jmho.

 

[Ad0ut]

Again, work on your serve. How many times did you ace him on break point? It is totally in your control.

thanks for telling me twice.

specifically, i think if i can get some more consistency on my wide-slice serve to the deuce side, it'll earn me some more points. currently, i probably only get about 1/5 of these serves in, which is quite terrible. i have a good flat serve down the T and am pretty good at mixing up spins and getting the serve into the body of opponents.

anyway, have another 4.5 match tonight. my serve clearly won't be any better tonight than my last outing, so i will just try to work on constructing the point and putting myself in a better offensive position. may also try drawing the opponent in if he's not a terrific volleyer since i like having a target and am pretty good when it comes to passing shots.

will try and post results tomorrow.

 

[supineAnimation]

Slaz 07, you really DO need to play in a better crowd to knock the chip off your shoulders.
As a 4.5 wasting your time with 4.0's, how can you use that as a measure of your game?
When I made B's, or 4.5's, I went directly to A, Open, and ProQ's. That was the measure of my game, not players around 3.5-4.5 levels.
You have plenty of good and great advice, but you always mix in your own measure of your greatness for us to "enjoy".

I didn't find anything pompous or self-aggrandizing in his post at all. He seemed to answer the question honestly based on his experiences... what's wrong with that?

 

[Slazenger07]

Slaz 07, you really DO need to play in a better crowd to knock the chip off your shoulders.
As a 4.5 wasting your time with 4.0's, how can you use that as a measure of your game?
When I made B's, or 4.5's, I went directly to A, Open, and ProQ's. That was the measure of my game, not players around 3.5-4.5 levels.
You have plenty of good and great advice, but you always mix in your own measure of your greatness for us to "enjoy".

Im not wasting my time, I dont play with all 4.0's there are some 4.5's in our group as well and many of the 4.0's are right on the verge of 4.5 if they make some improvements(many of them minor).

Well I mix that in because I am great LeeD, Im great when I play with 4.5's Im great when I play with 4.0's, in fact I would say that anyone that doesnt believe in their ability enough to make remarks about it will never get to the skill level of me or anyone better than me you need an ego to be this good, because as you know, believing you can make any shot/beat any player is the first step to actually doing it. Most of us in my group are improving quite noticeably. Its rarely a walk in the park when I play doubles in this group. Its tough competition, and Im challenging myself and improving, you should know that if I wasnt getting a great challenge playing in this group that I would have found a new group to play in long ago. I love a good challenge, I love competition.

 

[jrod]

Ad0ut,

Consistency is good and important but at the 4.5 level, you need to be able to finish points consistently. The plan of just staying back and being really consistent just won’t work at this level because this player has more options and more weapons (and can hit them consistently) and knows how to take advantage of openings. If you don’t keep it deep all the time, the first short or semi short ball is going to put you seriously on the defensive.

The fact he aces you every time it matters should tell you how the advanced player has many gears and only uses what they need to win and always has plenty in reserve for when it is needed. It may also say he isn’t threatened by you and thus saves his best or biggest serves for the rare opportunities you get to take advantage (don't let this bother you though).

The reason your style is so successful at 4.0 is the players either don’t have the consistency to hang with someone who is consistent (whether mental or not) and/or don’t have the weapons to put the counter puncher on the off balance defensive for the length of a whole match. There is the rub. The advanced players (4.5+) do.

The best way to compete is a couple of things. First, shot selection. The more advanced the player, the better they are at knowing which shot to hit at the right time. They don’t make the mental errors of the lower levels of over hitting a shot when the extra pace isn’t needed and donating points they have set themselves up to win. Second, they have more offensive skills (granted most of them). My point being unless you have the skills to keep it deep always and run for days, sooner or later a shot ball is going to come from you. When it does, the 4.5+ will hit a strong shot consistently to set up a winning shot, either on that shot or the next couple. So you need to learn to get out of your consistency comfort zone (which is a good place to be coming from) and learn how to be more aggressive at the right moments. That again gets back to knowing when to hit the ball harder/more aggressively and when not too. That takes time and experience to learn. So you also need to learn how to consistently put pressure on your opponent when you get the opportunity. Without the ability to end points, most advanced players given enough chances, will put you away eventually.

Must also be able to hit an overhead. If the player is smart, they will bring you in and if you can’t hit an overhead they will feed you many of them. They also will be testing if you can take advantage of a short ball given to you. If you can’t, you cannot out last them with consistency, as it is only a matter of time. There are many combinations to test these and many other things to try but I would probably throw in some deep rollers to get you behind the base line and then give you a short ball to bring you in. Then I will pass you or lob you as I wish if you can’t put away that short ball, especially after covering that much court. Also consider, most counter punchers are more comfortable moving side to side and not as much forward and backward (again, may or may not be applicable to you).

To summarize, learn to hit the right shot at the right time, be more aggressive when you have the advantage and work on that overhead and aggressive approach. Then it is just a matter of gaining the experience and putting all these (and many other things) together before you will start seeing consistent success. It takes time and there is no way (unfortunately) to speed up the learning curve. If you actively learn on the court, that will speed things up. But if you don’t learn things and pay attention and keep track of what is really happening on the court (as opposed to what you think is happening) it will take a long time.

Best of luck

TM

What he said....

Excellent post TM! Couldn't have said it any better.

 

[Slazenger07]

I didn't find anything pompous or self-aggrandizing in his post at all. He seemed to answer the question honestly based on his experiences... what's wrong with that?

Thank you!

 

[Bud]

I didn't find anything pompous or self-aggrandizing in his post at all. He seemed to answer the question honestly based on his experiences... what's wrong with that?

I agree. It was a well-written and informative post. IMO, it helps to hear first hand accounts of how people handle things within their own games.

I play people below my level, at my level and above my level. When playing down, I'll work on something that I feel is lacking. When playing up, I take whatever occurs as a learning experience.

 

[Ad0ut]

I had no problem with Slazenger 07's post either. He's basically telling it like it is, and I don't think he was condescending or anything in his tone.

With that said, if anyone cares, went down 6-1, 4-6 and 10-5 in that stupid coman tiebreak last night in another 4.5 league match.

I still need to work on my serve to score more free points, but overall, the match was a step in the right direction. I was more aggressive with my ground game and was able to force a lot of errors.

Will spend the weekend working on the slice serve out wide on the deuce side. Hit a few last night and was able to set up a lot of easy forehands. Just need to get more in.

 

[Bud]

I had no problem with Slazenger 07's post either. He's basically telling it like it is, and I don't think he was condescending or anything in his tone.

With that said, if anyone cares, went down 6-1, 4-6 and 10-5 in that stupid coman tiebreak last night in another 4.5 league match.

I still need to work on my serve to score more free points, but overall, the match was a step in the right direction. I was more aggressive with my ground game and was able to force a lot of errors.

Will spend the weekend working on the slice serve out wide on the deuce side. Hit a few last night and was able to set up a lot of easy forehands. Just need to get more in.

Well... at least it was competitive

I've noticed that when I run into a 4.5 player with a less than stellar serve, I can hold my own. However, that's pretty uncommon. Many 4.5's get free points on their serves when playing those below them.