Muscles to work on for serves?

[FD3S]

While I know that the serve effectiveness comes from using the kinetic chain to it's fullest potential, I have a question; how would I go about making the individual parts of the chain more effective? I want to focus on power (placement is fine) so would I have to build up my back/shoulder muscles?

 

[TennisDog]

Serving is all technique and speed not muscular development. You are hitting a ball that weighs 2 ounces not pushing a car up a hill. The faster the racquet head speed when you strike the ball the faster the serve.

Heavy muscular development can also make a person less flexible and slower. Its best to focus on technique. Working out does strengthen tendons and muscles so they are less likely to be injured which is the only real benefit

 

[FD3S]

Ah... I see. Any tips on increasing the racquet head speed then?

 

[Pomeranian]

By working on your technique, you know that serve power comes from the kinetic chain right? Well each part contributes to head racquet speed. Using your hips, legs, shoulders, arm, wrist, ect. The trick is, being able to maximize all of that and still being able to hit the ball cleanly and consistantly with good timing.

It's not rocket science to get more power, but it's more than sheer arm. Try bending your legs more, turning your shoulders, ect. Also don't overlook your toss.

PS, your placement may be "fine" but is it truly pinpoint accurate? Placement is highly underrated in serves. The point of more power in your serve is to make it more difficult to return right? Being able to expose the weaker side of your opponent and make them run is harder to return than bashing a ball right to them in general. Sorry for the speech but I think if you are going to gain more power, being able to place it just makes it deadlier.

 

[TennisDog]

Stay loose and breathe out. People tend to grip the racquet hard and hold their breath without realizing it. When muscles are tight they resist movement.

If a very loose grip where the racquet is almost dangling from your hand is a 1 and a death grip is a 10 you should be holding it with about a 3. Try intentionally hitting serves with a death grip and then try a couple real loose. I think you will see a difference.

The rest is mostly body rotation and good follow through. Roddick's is a good serve to copy if you can find some slo mo video. Roddick has unusually high flexibility in his shoulder where he can take the racquet head back much further than the average person.

 

[TennisDog]

By working on your technique, you know that serve power comes from the kinetic chain right? Well each part contributes to head racquet speed. Using your hips, legs, shoulders, arm, wrist, ect. The trick is, being able to maximize all of that and still being able to hit the ball cleanly and consistantly with good timing.

It's not rocket science to get more power, but it's more than sheer arm. Try bending your legs more, turning your shoulders, ect. Also don't overlook your toss.

PS, your placement may be "fine" but is it truly pinpoint accurate? Placement is highly underrated in serves. The point of more power in your serve is to make it more difficult to return right? Being able to expose the weaker side of your opponent and make them run is harder to return than bashing a ball right to them in general. Sorry for the speech but I think if you are going to gain more power, being able to place it just makes it deadlier.

I agree. Being able to place the ball and also having different serves like a kick or a slice are more important. You could serve 140 and eventually your opponents will adjust their timing and get it back. And remember the faster you serve the faster it comes back.

 

[shindemac]

yes, i agree. There's something wrong with the mechanic of your serve so work on that. Other than that, learn to throw a ball if you want to do x-training. Both are supposed to use the same kinetic chain. I had a pitcher friend, and man, no one wanted to stand on the other side to receive his serve.

 

[Marius_Hancu]

biceps, triceps, deltoids, shoulder

Upper Limb Muscles in the First (Flat) and Second (Topspin) Serve
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=54087

read the Health forum

 

[Marius_Hancu]

check my posting on
Server Power and Placement
in the Sticky (topmost thread here)
many good links

 

[FD3S]

Thanks! I'll give these tips a whirl...

 

[gurj_v]

I'm sure that putting on muscle will help but it depends on how muscular you are. If you are skinny then wieghts will help, for sure.

 

[Tim Tennis]

The stronger the better

Serving is all technique and speed not muscular development. You are hitting a ball that weighs 2 ounces not pushing a car up a hill. The faster the racquet head speed when you strike the ball the faster the serve.

Heavy muscular development can also make a person less flexible and slower. Its best to focus on technique. Working out does strengthen tendons and muscles so they are less likely to be injured which is the only real benefit

I have to respectfully disagree. Sure you have to have the technique and a great kinetic transfer of energy. It is not the 2 ounce ball, it is the 12 ounce racquet that you have to accelerate from 0 to what ever. To achieve significant racquet head speed requires tremendous strength, not just to move the racquet but to go through the whole sequence of the acceleration process. Man, look at Rosco Tanner, his forearm and hand look like he could crush a bowlling ball if he could get his hands around it. Roddick, look at his forearms, this guy is strong. When Andy starts the acceleration phase he goes through the range of motion so quick the stress on his forearm and hand is incredible. Most people, if they had the core muscle strength Andy has, but their own arm and hand strength would not even be able to hold on to the racquet if they could mimic his motion. Pete, you don't think he was strong, hell he swung a war club. Goron, he had incredible hand and wrist strength.

No of course you don't want to bulk up but you can gain a lot of strength without adding a lot of muscle mass.

Serving hard is fun, go for it. When you can do it with consistency and placement you will be tough to beat. Don't but yourself in a box and limit your potiental. Grip it and rip it.

 

[Tim Tennis]

yes, i agree. There's something wrong with the mechanic of your serve so work on that. Other than that, learn to throw a ball if you want to do x-training. Both are supposed to use the same kinetic chain. I had a pitcher friend, and man, no one wanted to stand on the other side to receive his serve.

I have always wondered what a good fast ball pitcher could do with the serve. I bet this guy is pretty darn strong.

 

[bee]

Hand and arm strength are very important for the serve. I feel the serve is the stroke that can benefit most from weight training. Overheads, pulldowns, triceps extension, hand grip and such. And, crunches, leg raises and squats or leg presses. All that stuff.

A baseball pitcher holds the ball with his thumb and index and middle fingers. If you have really good hand strength you can hold the butt of the racquet in a similar fashion. I like to let the butt rest in the fleshy base of the palm and hold and guide it with a loose grip of the index and middle up top and the 4th and 5th down lower. Somewhat like a pitcher holds a baseball. Keep it loose and twist and snap as desired through the stroke. You can't do that without a strong grip. Some guys can't get snap on the serve because they're not strong enough to hold it loosely. They grab the whole thing and, thus, limit the range of motion severely.

Emulating Roddicks abreviated and straight take back has been helpful for me. No big loopy motion, just coil the body, toss, jerk the thing back and let 'er rip! Boom!

 

[GuyClinch]

When Andy starts the acceleration phase he goes through the range of motion so quick the stress on his forearm and hand is incredible. Most people, if they had the core muscle strength Andy has, but their own arm and hand strength would not even be able to hold on to the racquet if they could mimic his motion. Pete, you don't think he was strong, hell he swung a war club. Goron, he had incredible hand and wrist strength.

Come on..

Compared to male athletes in other sports you certainly don't need to be strong to serve well. As others have pointed out serving has alot of similarities to pitching. You need some basic baseline strength but that's about it.

If you have seen the "Sonic Serve" video they make a very good case for a serve being an upward throw. Now if you know anything about baseball you know that you don't have to be tremendously strong to be a pitcher. Pedro Martinez is one of the greatest pitchers ever and while he is a good athlete no one would confuse him for Barry Bonds. Is he a weakling? No I wouldn't go that far but I don't think he would be described as "strong."

Form is absolutely key for serving big and have a long flexible frame is very helpful as well - just like in baseball with regards to pitchers. I lift and I think its helpful to avoid injury and can make the game seem easier but honestly I think you will gain more MPH on your serve just by practicing your serve with a pro then you will lifting weights. If your exceptionally weak I can see some benefit but it's marginal IMHO.

As proof of this concept - women. Justine Henin can bring it about 110MPH and she certainly doesn't qualify as "strong" by the standard of any man.

Pete

 

[Tim Tennis]

Come on..
Compared to male athletes in other sports you certainly don't need to be strong to serve well.

Other sports, that is a very broad statement. Lets think, distance running?, swimming?, scoccer?, golf?, basketball?, ping pong?, pool? now thanks to ESPN, Poker?, Granted to "serve well" you do not have to be "that" strong, so what are we talking about an eighty mph serve. Most women with excellent mechanics cannot even serve that hard. Maybe you and I have a different definition of strong. Maybe you define strong as being all bulked up.

As others have pointed out serving has alot of similarities to pitching. You need some basic baseline strength but that's about it.

Have you seen these guys that come out of the bull pen. I guess they are wussies. To throw a 90 mph fast ball you have to be strong. I wonder how many 150 pound skinny guys can throw a 90 mph fast ball. A lot of them might get the 80 mph but it is the extra 10 mph that requires the superior strength.

Now if you know anything about baseball you know that you don't have to be tremendously strong to be a pitcher. Pedro Martinez is one of the greatest pitchers ever and while he is a good athlete no one would confuse him for Barry Bonds. Is he a weakling? No I wouldn't go that far but I don't think he would be described as "strong."

Pedro who? If he could throw a 90 mph fastball he is strong.

Form is absolutely key for serving big and have a long flexible frame is very helpful as well - just like in baseball with regards to pitchers.

I agree, but to get that 130, 140, 150 mph serve you are strong.

I think you will gain more MPH on your serve just by practicing your serve with a pro then you will lifting weights. If your exceptionally weak I can see some benefit but it's marginal IMHO.

I agree but you will reach a certain limit, lets say a 90 mph serve, which most people can't do, to go beyond that limit you will have to "get stronger."

As proof of this concept - women. Justine Henin can bring it about 110 MPH and she certainly doesn't qualify as "strong" by the standard of any man.

Glad you brought her up. She is know for her work out routine and dedication. She continuously works on her strength and getting stronger. She is probably stronger then most women on the tour, pound per pound maybe the strongest.

 

[bee]

Tim, you are strong and wise. An admirable combination.

The trick is to become strong yet maintain flexiblility and quickness. If I lift too much I get heavier and slower. If I lift hard about every 5 days and do lighter stuff and play tennis as well, it works well for me.

Strenght is obviously a major factor in serving well. Perhaps the word power would be more correct.

 

[FD3S]

Hmm... both approaches seem viable for me. I'm a junior (17) so it's probably best to maximize my technique first, then do some weights, right?

 

[Pomeranian]

Hmm... both approaches seem viable for me. I'm a junior (17) so it's probably best to maximize my technique first, then do some weights, right?

So black and white.... I would say technique would help you more if you are fairly new to tennis, but you can lift weights too. It's not something you have to choose between, you can do both. And that is what I think is best since you are at the peak of muscle growth and learning technique gets harder as you grow older.

 

[shindemac]

Well, my friend was a mutant freak. He was maybe 12 at the time, and he was already 6'2" 170-190 lbs. I doubt he worked out that much cause he was still in jr high, and I don't think they have that kind of equipment and emphasis yet. This was a long time ago when Pete Sampras was the top dog with 110mph serve. He never played tennis and could easily hit a one bouncer at least 3 feet up the fence. His fastball was in the 80's but I don't think he could do over 90.

My brother works out a lot. His max bench was 215, and he could easily curl 55 lbs in one hand. He eventually reached his goal of a one arm pull-up, so he has a lot of upper body strength. Bicep, tricep, chest, upper back - sounds like a monster for serving. He's 5'6" 135-140 lbs. He plays tennis, but his serve is maybe 95-100 at best.

So unless you're really weak or underweight, lifting weights won't help that much. Don't expect to serve 120+, cause my brother sure couldn't do it. Lots of skinny people who never work out can serve just as fast as my brother. In fact, it's not that hard to serve as fast as him if you work on your technique instead. I'm not saying you shouldn't work out. But I don't want to see someone hit the weight room for 2 years, and wonder why his serve is not getting any faster.

 

[Tim Tennis]

He is awesome

My brother works out a lot. His max bench was 215, and he could easily curl 55 lbs in one hand. He eventually reached his goal of a one arm pull-up, so he has a lot of upper body strength. Bicep, tricep, chest, upper back - sounds like a monster for serving. He's 5'6" 135-140 lbs. He plays tennis, but his serve is maybe 95-100 at best.

So unless you're really weak or underweight, lifting weights won't help that much. Don't expect to serve 120+, cause my brother sure couldn't do it. Lots of skinny people who never work out can serve just as fast as my brother. In fact, it's not that hard to serve as fast as him if you work on your technique instead. I'm not saying you shouldn't work out. But I don't want to see someone hit the weight room for 2 years, and wonder why his serve is not getting any faster.

If your brother can do a one arm pull up that is awesome. I can get up to 15 but I don't want to even think about doing it with one arm. So how many 5'6" 135-140 lbs. guys do you know that can serve 95 to 100 mph? He has limited leverage and I bet his mechanics are not perfect. A 100 mph serve is rockin. Those skinny people, are they 5' 6", no. To be 5'6" and serve 100 mph is awesome, my hat is off to him. That is one strong dude. Just think if he was 6'4" he would make Goron's serve look like it was underhanded. The chin up is one of my favorite exercises and I always do it thinking how this will improve my serve. You just gave me proof this is a great exercise to do.

 

[shindemac]

His serve is decent, but it's more the mechanics and not his strength. He doesn't have a hitch, and he played competitively in high school. But the speed is an estimate based on the fact he can usually hit one bouncers, and someone here said you need a min of 94 to do that. So it may actually be a little less.

I have another brother the same height who can serve almost just as fast as him, but he doesn't work out at all. He played a lot in high school, and has good mechanics. He's at his weakest now after working, and losing weight. So this summer when we play, I'll have to see if he can still serve just as fast so we can debunk this myth of working out.

And if you're wondering about me, I have 2 inches of height on them, and another inch or two for my arms. But my serve is the weakest cause my mechanics suck ie I have a hitch. It's probably in the 80's. I did work on it one summer, and I probably got it up to 95-100.

 

[GuyClinch]

Other sports, that is a very broad statement. Lets think, distance running?, swimming?, scoccer?, golf?, basketball?, ping pong?, pool? now thanks to ESPN, Poker?, Granted to "serve well" you do not have to be "that" strong, so what are we talking about an eighty mph serve. Most women with excellent mechanics cannot even serve that hard. Maybe you and I have a different definition of strong. Maybe you define strong as being all bulked up.

The reason why most women don't serve well has nothing to do with strength. It's well known that because they havent had as much experience with the throwing motion their form tends to be off, and quite often they are shorter then men. The lack of length hurts them as well.

If you follow baseball you notice that pitchers tend to be tall. This length provides leverage and hence harder throws and serves. If you have good form with good height you will achieve some killer serves.

Secondly "strength" can easily be measured. Convential measures include how much weight you can squat as a squat is considered more representantive of overall body strength. A strong man can bench 2x his body weight and squat 3x his overall weight.

You certainly don't need to be strong like that to serve big and frankly I would be shocked if guys like Goran, Sampras, Miriyni or any of the other big servers had that kind of strength. I imagine Courier and Andre could do that but they didn't really have big serves.

It's mostly about technique not strength. I don't know if you ever played golf but a good example is the driving range. I am pretty strong young guy - but I had never played golf before. Now I had this 75 year old coach teaching me how to play. The guy wasn't very strong and had a big belly. But he could effortessly hit the ball around 300 yards? Why because he had good form.

It's the same with the serve as far as I am concerned. It's mostly about form though height is a huge help. I have a tennis coach who isn't in good shape at all but he used to play on the satellite tour - he can hit bombs 110+ easy and that's because he knows how to do it.

Anyway as much as think weight lifting is helpful to avoid injury and the like if you want to improve your serve more often then not you just need to improve your form. Only if you have everything about perfect would you start exercising to improve your serve and then I think you would be best off with some "functional" exercises that target the same motions you use with the serve.

Pete

 

[MegacedU]

Work on your core and obliques. When you incorporate a rotation, much of your power will come from this area.

 

[Kevo]

Concentrate on technique. That's where the biggest gains will come from. As far as strength training goes, the serve works everything. I don't think there is a muscle you don't use if you're serving with excellent technique. I like the old standbys. Body weight exercises. Push-ups, pull-ups, sit-ups, chin-ups, running, and jumping rope. Legs are where you can really get some power, and flexibility is very helpful as well. However, remember form comes first. Like the others have said, power can get you only so far. Speed is the key, and that comes from fast and flexible with excellent form.

 

[cervelo]

My big thing involves QUALITY rotator cuff exercises.

To me, the concern over whether or not it will develop a "better" serve is secondary to protecting the joint and preventing injury.

The rotator cuff and shoulder joint aren't designed for the service motion and are prime candidates for over-use/non-impact injuries. The rotator cuff is the weakest link in "powering up" the arm motion.

In my experience, rotator cuff exercises have strengthened my serve if, for no other reason, I've managed to generate blood flow and maintain flexibility and joint health.

 

[cervelo]

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/dorian1.htm