My serve. 100 + MPH with video and radar

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by drakulie, Sep 19, 2006.

  1. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    Bride me, bribe me. You know!
    Screw you :mrgreen:
     
  2. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yeah, pros put ridiculous spin on the ball.

    Although this one hits exactly 5'6" on the fence,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGWip2F_e7M

    this one actually had a higher bounce.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu4Hw6rp46Q

    It is too bad you can't get a good gauge on Youtube, or see really see the effects of the spin on the ball.
     
  3. mucat

    mucat Hall of Fame

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  4. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    Hehe.
    I don't know how in hell I didn't see that coming :p
     
  5. takeuchi

    takeuchi Rookie

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    Sweet shot.

    Nice hip stretch!

    Can you get one of those at contact?

    I know what you mean about the buzzing sound. My buddy (plays for University of Waterloo) can kick it over my head sometimes and you can just see the ovalness of it and hear it whizzing toward you, quickly getting louder as it gets closer.

    I am just getting to the point now where I am getting some feedback about my serves whizzing. As soon as I get my replacement camera (after making a claim to canadapost for losing my camera on its way to be serviced for warranty:() I'll get some good vids of my serve.
     
  6. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Thanks takeuchi. Here is one from the same serve sequence at contact:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Same serve sequence.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. mucat

    mucat Hall of Fame

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    I thought the left arm should be lower or it doesn't matter?
     
  9. kevhen

    kevhen Hall of Fame

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    I think it should be down as you pull your trunk around.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] Mine is well down by my waist too.
     
  10. maverick1

    maverick1 Semi-Pro

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    Kevhen,
    I don't think I have seen any pro land that deep inside the court! Your whole body has passed a vertical plane almost 2 feet inside the line. Impressive athleticism(assuming it wasn't a foot fault )
     
  11. mucat

    mucat Hall of Fame

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    I think most Pros land even further, watch Sampras (he is not most Pro, I know).
     
  12. kevhen

    kevhen Hall of Fame

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    Yes, I land a good 2-3 feet inside the baseline due to my leg kick layup style of serving (up, up, and away) that is considered unorthodox but still very effective. I could dunk in college but really my vertical is gone now (38" back to 24") and that is why I took up tennis where I do play an athletic type of game. I have a 2nd cousin who plays in the NFL and a sister and uncle that were all-americans at their D3 colleges. My toe was on the line on this serve and since then I have backed up a couple more inches as my left foot does pivot forward like Sampras' but I still land like 30 inches inside the baseline.
     
  13. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    Kehven,

    Can you post a video of your serve? Just curious. Your body is in a very
    peculiar position. When I look at footage of pros and people that land
    far into the court the body is leaning toward the net due to the uncoiling
    of the body and propelling towards the court. In your picture, your body
    is almost perpendicular to the ground, and you racquet is still about
    parallel with the court. It appears that you have jumped/lunged forward
    and uncoiled your body (too early) and then swung to hit the ball and are not getting enough benefit from the kinetic chain of events that
    takes place in a specific order to get maximum racquet head speed. Sort
    of like a volleyball serve. Compare where your racquet head is vs. a
    picture where drakulie's racquet head is. His body is in a TOTALLY different (and correct) position. I'll bet you'll be able to hit serves more consistently and with more power if you are able to correct this. Also, it
    is virtually impossible to get a lot of kick/topspin with your current
    motion. On the plus side, you are elevating so are striking the ball from
    a higher point and also deep into the court. But I also suspect that you
    may be hitting the ball a little bit on your descent. (in the air)
     
  14. kevhen

    kevhen Hall of Fame

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    This is my flat serve with eastern forehand grip that goes 110-115mph and goes in about 40% of the time. Without the elevation, I wouldn't get the high percentage in using an eastern forehand grip. I probably could get a little more power with proper technique. I have posted video of this serve several times already.

    My left arm is down here while Drak's is up which is what we are debating here.
    [​IMG]
     
  15. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, drakulie, could probably get a little more reach with the left shoulder
    dropping more. He has to brush up though b/c he is hitting topspin on his
    serve. It isn't just a matter of the left arm coming down. On your serve.
    The left arm drop is good but I think it is happening a little too soon b/c
    the left shoulder is already about as low as it can go and you haven't
    struck the ball yet. I'll bet if your able to incorporate the delay in the shoulder
    turn/ left shoulder drop, you'll hit even harder.
     
  16. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Total falsehood. Sampras did not land that far into the court. here is a link:

    http://www.cwtennis.com/virtual/theserve.html
     
  17. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yes, your left arm should come down lower as this well assist in the uncoiling of the shoulders. My arm does come down a few frames after the one shown. However, as onehand pointed out, it also depends on the type of serve you are hitting.
     
  18. mucat

    mucat Hall of Fame

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    Hey, it is a false visual thing? I don't think he landed just inside the baseline. But don't worry, I have other clips (from side view) of his serve at home, I will watch it and see how it is. Will find out tonight.
     
  19. maverick1

    maverick1 Semi-Pro

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    I checked it on tennisplayer.net.
    Sampras lands about one shoelength inside the court. Nowhere near as much as Kevhen. Federer and Roddick land even closer to the baseline.
    Kevhen is more like basketball player going for a layup! I would like to see his whole motion.
     
  20. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Kehvens serve albeit extremely unconventional seems very effective. From what I recall when I saw his serve video he gets a lot of pop, and has a real good slice (lots of action). Mind you, it is very hard to see this sort of thing on video, but you could defnitiely see the action on his slice.

    In regards to his service motion, he has what appears like a running jump, and leaps into the court (Almost bordering on illegal, but not there yet). Before he has made an upward swing (as you pointed out), the energy stored in his coil is long gone, and waisted. This is why his left arm is already so far down by his side, he is completely uncoiled, his shoulders are square to the net,,,, yet his upward swing has not begun.

    I agree with you that he could probably be much more effective if he learned to incoorporate the "lean" into the court, and the uncoiling at the proper time.

    However, as I said he appears to be very effective with this motion, and get good results--especially the slice.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  21. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Ummmm, I remember Kevhen's serve and it wasn't very good. The reason he is getting pop is because of his height and natural strength. His serve motion is very inefficient and largely ineffective compared to what he could get out of his serve (spin, pace, different serves, etc...).

    His head position, body angle, grip, etc...all needed work. If it wasn't for his athletic ability it would be a 3.0 serve.
     
  22. scez

    scez Semi-Pro

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    When did he post the video? Please repost it :D
     
  23. mucat

    mucat Hall of Fame

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    Hey, you guys are correct. 8) Around one to one half shoe length for Sampras. Must be the way he propels his body make me think he landed further.
    On kevhen's serve, it looks like he was hitting the ball on the way down, is it?
     
  24. Mike Cottrill

    Mike Cottrill Hall of Fame

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    Agree. With is H and S, he could have a real weapon.
     
  25. skuludo

    skuludo Professional

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    Post Deleted
     
  26. kevhen

    kevhen Hall of Fame

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    Tell that to all the 4.0 guys around here who can't return it..... I am still waiting for photos or videos of your brilliant serve.
     
  27. MasterTS

    MasterTS Professional

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    4.0 players dont return much, let alone a faster serve. Usually when I play against lower level players (4.0 and below), I just hit a big kicker (head level of most players) and get an unreturnable. Don't really need to go for the heater.
     
  28. MasterTS

    MasterTS Professional

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    I would like to see

    As title says, I would like to see this so called unefficient yet "effective" serve of Kevhens.. the so called eastern grip done wrong but only works because he's tall and strong!

    Let us observe who is right.. BB or kevhen..
     
  29. kevhen

    kevhen Hall of Fame

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    I use eastern backhand for topspin and slice serve. I have posted low quality video in the past on this forum, but would like to see video of those who say my serve is 3.0 level technique-wise. I already know my serve is effective against 4.0s and even occasionally 4.5 and 5.0 players so I don't have anything to prove, just that I use a different technique than one that has ever been taught (leg kick).
     
  30. skuludo

    skuludo Professional

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    I think my radar gun died. The number 5 is stuck. Pressing the off button does not shut the machine down.
     
  31. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    ^^^^ Take the battery out, and replace them.
     
  32. boojay

    boojay Hall of Fame

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    i never realized how much battery this thing drains.....either that, or a lot of people have been using my radar.

    p.s. that kid from before has broken the 120 mph barrier.........that *******. :D
     
  33. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    yeah, it drains the battery fairly quick. How is your serve coming along?
     
  34. Rafa's best friend

    Rafa's best friend Banned

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    That radar gun is juiced, that ball looks more like 80 mph
     
  35. chess9

    chess9 Hall of Fame

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    Add at least 10 mph to each of those serves measured at the racquet head as most pro serves are.

    You have a slight tendency to side-arm the ball. You must have been a shortstop. :)

    Your serve looks pretty good to me, especially your extension at the back.

    Oh, and for a right wing wacko, you are down right unbelievable. :) :) j/k

    -Robert
     
  36. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    chess9, thanks. Actually I pitched and played third base. Yes, I use to side arm my throws from third base. LOL-- Nice observation.

    As for the speed, Maverick1 and Mike Cotril actually worked on a formula to estimate serve speeds at contact. The thread is in a sticky in the Tips section. The serve speeds at contact would be about 5 mph faster at contact. Here is the link:

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=122622

    I have to be honest, I was pretty amazed at how "slow" the serve looks on video.

    "Right wing wacko" LOL. I'll have you know I am voting for Bill Nelson (D) over Katherine Harris (R), for the senate here in Florida. It will be our secret. :)

    Anyways, thanks for the comments.
     
  37. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Radar Juiced? i don't think so. It is actualy slow.

     
  38. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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  39. chess9

    chess9 Hall of Fame

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    Poor KH! She has become a cartoon character. No one takes her seriously. I really don't think she's as bad as folks make her out. She actually has a few middle of the road positions. :)

    I played third base and pitched as well, until I got to American Legion ball when I was pulled from the infield. That's why I picked up tennis. Too damned boring sitting on the bench for three or four games. Anyway, your throwing motion is a bit like an infielder's. :)

    Good luck with all of that.

    -Robert
     
  40. maverick1

    maverick1 Semi-Pro

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    I have lately been reading about biomechanics of the serve at TennisPlayer.net, and I think side arming is a good thing. This is sound technique from an injury standpoint, and that probably explains why Drakulie is able to serve increasingly harder in long matches.

    What is good is that his left shoulder joint, right shoulder joint and elbow are pretty much in a straight line. It is bad for the rotator cuff for the upper arm to make angle higher than 0 degrees with shoulder line. This is possibly well known to baseball players, but was news to me.

    Most pros do keep their upper arm in line with the shoulders as well. The difference is that the pros dip their left shoulder more than drakulie and their arms look a little more vertical.
     
  41. boojay

    boojay Hall of Fame

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    my serve is garbage. it's been over a month already and my back still hurts. Then again, it's my own fault though since I won't stop playing. I figured if I didn't hit hard serves that would be enough for me to heal--not the case at all.

    I did managed a 110 mph the other day, but at a cost, I re-aggravated it. Right now it's not so bad, however, I can still feel it. Really hard to sleep at night and I feel a little pain whenever I lift my arm. Groundstrokes are painless though, so that's why I keep playing :D.
     
  42. skuludo

    skuludo Professional

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    Seems like old balls are immune to slow down. I placed the gun on the back fence and the gun clocked it at 79mph. The serve was probly around the 80s.

    The gun also clocked my flat serve going at 39mph when I hit the ball right towards it. Outside was very windy that day. When I threw the ball forward it would come right back at me.

    I took the batterys out and put the old ones back in. This fixed the stuck 5 problem. However, it does not fix the blinking light problem I am experiencing when I accidently slamed into my radar gun. Tenth digit flashes a 0 and the 1st digit flashes a u every time the mph light blinks. The gun has been running for over 72 hours on Duracel Ultra and it is still not out of power.
     
  43. boojay

    boojay Hall of Fame

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    i'm using energizer. i also have the adapter, but hauling around the extension cord is a b|tch
     
  44. boojay

    boojay Hall of Fame

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  45. skuludo

    skuludo Professional

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    I put in some new batteries and it is back to normal. Do you have any idea what the tuning fork is?
    http://www.opticsplanet.net/speedtrac-tuning-fork.html

    This time instead of using Duracell Ultra I've put in President's Choice batteries.

    Product of Westfair Foods which is owned by Loblaws. (I am refering to the batteries.)
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Did some searching and found out what the tuning fork does. Hit the tuning fork on a hard surface and then hold it up against the radar gun. If the gun measures the speed stated on the tuning fork then it is functioning properly.

    I think the SpeedTrec X requires X band tuning forks. The Bushnell guns require K band tuning forks.

    Drakulie do you have a tuning fork for your radar gun?
     
  46. maverick1

    maverick1 Semi-Pro

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    Skuludo,
    If you found anything in the net about how a tuning fork helps to a calibrate a radar gun, please post the link. I am very curious.

    People who want to measure the absolute maximum velocity may be interested in this Radar gun:
    http://www.astroproducts.net/Velocity1.htm

    It requires another person to operate, but the advantage is it records the fastest speed it sees during the time trigger is squeezed. Drakulie's radar gun record the first speed that it sees that is above a certain cutoff speed(35 mph I think). This means that, in order to prevent it from recording the racket speed rather than ball speed, you are forced to place it at distance where you are out of its range. That means measuring less than maximum speed.

    The Bushnell gun can be held by someone standing behind the server. It has a range of 80 feet so you can stand behind the fence. You can also measure speeds of forehands, backhands, etc...
    Measuring groundshot speeds would be very tricky with Drakulie's radar. In a rally, it may pick up the opponent's shot coming towards you, and once it does that, it will hold that reading for several seconds before it scans for another ball.
     
  47. skuludo

    skuludo Professional

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    The only people who can "calabirate" the radar gun is the manufacturer. Calabirate in this context means to "check" the radar gun. If the radar gun does not clock the speed of what the tuning fork says then you will need to send the radar gun in for repair.

    I also have the Bushnell Speedster 2 gun as well. I've tested it on groundstrokes and I can see the ball accelerate. Same with serves.
    My hitting partner tried to clock my serve standing behind me, but had no success. More testing needs to be done because he only managed to record one serve.

    The JUGS gun can be used for tennis I think. The advertisment says it will clock a baseball right when the ball leaves a pitchers hands. To confirm whether it works in tennis someone will need to go to the JUGS offical site and email a rep.
     
  48. Mike Cottrill

    Mike Cottrill Hall of Fame

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    This Bushnell gun, well the one unit I have seen and used, does not take measurements very well. It could be a defective unit though. The owner sent the first one in for repair and I’m not sure it they “fixed” it or sent a new one. At any rate, it would only take measurements about 50% of the time on serves. It would not measure hard flat serves of mine anyway. One time it measured 25 mph for a flat out wide un-returnable. I think it measured my foot speed lol. This particular gun anyway was a POS. It would measure spin serves okay, but those were down in the low 90’s high 80’s . 110 for tennis??? If you get this one, make sure you can return it if you are not satisfied.
    Mike
     
  49. Swissv2

    Swissv2 Hall of Fame

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    I have used the Bushnell Velocity speed gun and now stick with the "Drak Speed Gun" because it is difficult to set up and doesn't read serves sometimes.
     
  50. Ten_is

    Ten_is Rookie

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    boojay, try serving on the court with a ball and racquet and seeing where and how the ball hits.
     

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