My serve. 100 + MPH with video and radar
- Thread starter drakulie
- Start date
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
lzclzclzc said:
Yeah, pros put ridiculous spin on the ball.
Although this one hits exactly 5'6" on the fence,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGWip2F_e7M
this one actually had a higher bounce.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu4Hw6rp46Q
It is too bad you can't get a good gauge on Youtube, or see really see the effects of the spin on the ball.
takeuchi
Rookie
Sweet shot.drakulie said:
Nice hip stretch!
Can you get one of those at contact?
I know what you mean about the buzzing sound. My buddy (plays for University of Waterloo) can kick it over my head sometimes and you can just see the ovalness of it and hear it whizzing toward you, quickly getting louder as it gets closer.
I am just getting to the point now where I am getting some feedback about my serves whizzing. As soon as I get my replacement camera (after making a claim to canadapost for losing my camera on its way to be serviced for warranty
) I'll get some good vids of my serve.
Yes, I land a good 2-3 feet inside the baseline due to my leg kick layup style of serving (up, up, and away) that is considered unorthodox but still very effective. I could dunk in college but really my vertical is gone now (38" back to 24") and that is why I took up tennis where I do play an athletic type of game. I have a 2nd cousin who plays in the NFL and a sister and uncle that were all-americans at their D3 colleges. My toe was on the line on this serve and since then I have backed up a couple more inches as my left foot does pivot forward like Sampras' but I still land like 30 inches inside the baseline.
onehandbh
G.O.A.T.
Kehven,
Can you post a video of your serve? Just curious. Your body is in a very
peculiar position. When I look at footage of pros and people that land
far into the court the body is leaning toward the net due to the uncoiling
of the body and propelling towards the court. In your picture, your body
is almost perpendicular to the ground, and you racquet is still about
parallel with the court. It appears that you have jumped/lunged forward
and uncoiled your body (too early) and then swung to hit the ball and are not getting enough benefit from the kinetic chain of events that
takes place in a specific order to get maximum racquet head speed. Sort
of like a volleyball serve. Compare where your racquet head is vs. a
picture where drakulie's racquet head is. His body is in a TOTALLY different (and correct) position. I'll bet you'll be able to hit serves more consistently and with more power if you are able to correct this. Also, it
is virtually impossible to get a lot of kick/topspin with your current
motion. On the plus side, you are elevating so are striking the ball from
a higher point and also deep into the court. But I also suspect that you
may be hitting the ball a little bit on your descent. (in the air)
Can you post a video of your serve? Just curious. Your body is in a very
peculiar position. When I look at footage of pros and people that land
far into the court the body is leaning toward the net due to the uncoiling
of the body and propelling towards the court. In your picture, your body
is almost perpendicular to the ground, and you racquet is still about
parallel with the court. It appears that you have jumped/lunged forward
and uncoiled your body (too early) and then swung to hit the ball and are not getting enough benefit from the kinetic chain of events that
takes place in a specific order to get maximum racquet head speed. Sort
of like a volleyball serve. Compare where your racquet head is vs. a
picture where drakulie's racquet head is. His body is in a TOTALLY different (and correct) position. I'll bet you'll be able to hit serves more consistently and with more power if you are able to correct this. Also, it
is virtually impossible to get a lot of kick/topspin with your current
motion. On the plus side, you are elevating so are striking the ball from
a higher point and also deep into the court. But I also suspect that you
may be hitting the ball a little bit on your descent. (in the air)
This is my flat serve with eastern forehand grip that goes 110-115mph and goes in about 40% of the time. Without the elevation, I wouldn't get the high percentage in using an eastern forehand grip. I probably could get a little more power with proper technique. I have posted video of this serve several times already.
My left arm is down here while Drak's is up which is what we are debating here.
My left arm is down here while Drak's is up which is what we are debating here.
onehandbh
G.O.A.T.
Yeah, drakulie, could probably get a little more reach with the left shoulder
dropping more. He has to brush up though b/c he is hitting topspin on his
serve. It isn't just a matter of the left arm coming down. On your serve.
The left arm drop is good but I think it is happening a little too soon b/c
the left shoulder is already about as low as it can go and you haven't
struck the ball yet. I'll bet if your able to incorporate the delay in the shoulder
turn/ left shoulder drop, you'll hit even harder.
dropping more. He has to brush up though b/c he is hitting topspin on his
serve. It isn't just a matter of the left arm coming down. On your serve.
The left arm drop is good but I think it is happening a little too soon b/c
the left shoulder is already about as low as it can go and you haven't
struck the ball yet. I'll bet if your able to incorporate the delay in the shoulder
turn/ left shoulder drop, you'll hit even harder.
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
mucat said:
Total falsehood. Sampras did not land that far into the court. here is a link:
http://www.cwtennis.com/virtual/theserve.html
I checked it on tennisplayer.net.mucat said:
Sampras lands about one shoelength inside the court. Nowhere near as much as Kevhen. Federer and Roddick land even closer to the baseline.
Kevhen is more like basketball player going for a layup! I would like to see his whole motion.
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
onehandbh said:
Kehvens serve albeit extremely unconventional seems very effective. From what I recall when I saw his serve video he gets a lot of pop, and has a real good slice (lots of action). Mind you, it is very hard to see this sort of thing on video, but you could defnitiely see the action on his slice.
In regards to his service motion, he has what appears like a running jump, and leaps into the court (Almost bordering on illegal, but not there yet). Before he has made an upward swing (as you pointed out), the energy stored in his coil is long gone, and waisted. This is why his left arm is already so far down by his side, he is completely uncoiled, his shoulders are square to the net,,,, yet his upward swing has not begun.
I agree with you that he could probably be much more effective if he learned to incoorporate the "lean" into the court, and the uncoiling at the proper time.
However, as I said he appears to be very effective with this motion, and get good results--especially the slice.
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
drakulie said:Kehvens serve albeit extremely unconventional seems very effective. From what I recall when I saw his serve video he gets a lot of pop, and has a real good slice (lots of action). Mind you, it is very hard to see this sort of thing on video, but you could defnitiely see the action on his slice.
In regards to his service motion, he has what appears like a running jump, and leaps into the court (Almost bordering on illegal, but not there yet). Before he has made an upward swing (as you pointed out), the energy stored in his coil is long gone, and waisted. This is why his left arm is already so far down by his side, he is completely uncoiled, his shoulders are square to the net,,,, yet his upward swing has not begun.
I agree with you that he could probably be much more effective if he learned to incoorporate the "lean" into the court, and the uncoiling at the proper time.
However, as I said he appears to be very effective with this motion, and get good results--especially the slice.
Ummmm, I remember Kevhen's serve and it wasn't very good. The reason he is getting pop is because of his height and natural strength. His serve motion is very inefficient and largely ineffective compared to what he could get out of his serve (spin, pace, different serves, etc...).
His head position, body angle, grip, etc...all needed work. If it wasn't for his athletic ability it would be a 3.0 serve.
Mike Cottrill
Hall of Fame
Bungalo Bill said:
Agree. With is H and S, he could have a real weapon.
I use eastern backhand for topspin and slice serve. I have posted low quality video in the past on this forum, but would like to see video of those who say my serve is 3.0 level technique-wise. I already know my serve is effective against 4.0s and even occasionally 4.5 and 5.0 players so I don't have anything to prove, just that I use a different technique than one that has ever been taught (leg kick).
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
boojay said:i never realized how much battery this thing drains.....either that, or a lot of people have been using my radar.
p.s. that kid from before has broken the 120 mph barrier.........that *******.
yeah, it drains the battery fairly quick. How is your serve coming along?
Rafa's best friend
Banned
That radar gun is juiced, that ball looks more like 80 mph
chess9
Hall of Fame
Add at least 10 mph to each of those serves measured at the racquet head as most pro serves are.
You have a slight tendency to side-arm the ball. You must have been a shortstop.
Your serve looks pretty good to me, especially your extension at the back.
Oh, and for a right wing wacko, you are down right unbelievable. j/k
-Robert
You have a slight tendency to side-arm the ball. You must have been a shortstop.
Your serve looks pretty good to me, especially your extension at the back.
Oh, and for a right wing wacko, you are down right unbelievable.
j/k-Robert
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
chess9, thanks. Actually I pitched and played third base. Yes, I use to side arm my throws from third base. LOL-- Nice observation.
As for the speed, Maverick1 and Mike Cotril actually worked on a formula to estimate serve speeds at contact. The thread is in a sticky in the Tips section. The serve speeds at contact would be about 5 mph faster at contact. Here is the link:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=122622
I have to be honest, I was pretty amazed at how "slow" the serve looks on video.
"Right wing wacko" LOL. I'll have you know I am voting for Bill Nelson (D) over Katherine Harris (R), for the senate here in Florida. It will be our secret.
Anyways, thanks for the comments.
As for the speed, Maverick1 and Mike Cotril actually worked on a formula to estimate serve speeds at contact. The thread is in a sticky in the Tips section. The serve speeds at contact would be about 5 mph faster at contact. Here is the link:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=122622
I have to be honest, I was pretty amazed at how "slow" the serve looks on video.
"Right wing wacko" LOL. I'll have you know I am voting for Bill Nelson (D) over Katherine Harris (R), for the senate here in Florida. It will be our secret.
Anyways, thanks for the comments.
chess9
Hall of Fame
drakulie said:chess9, thanks. Actually I pitched and played third base. Yes, I use to side arm my throws from third base. LOL-- Nice observation.
As for the speed, Maverick1 and Mike Cotril actually worked on a formula to estimate serve speeds at contact. The thread is in a sticky in the Tips section. The serve speeds at contact would be about 5 mph faster at contact. Here is the link:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=122622
I have to be honest, I was pretty amazed at how "slow" the serve looks on video.
"Right wing wacko" LOL. I'll have you know I am voting for Bill Nelson (D) over Katherine Harris (R), for the senate here in Florida. It will be our secret.
Anyways, thanks for the comments.
Poor KH! She has become a cartoon character. No one takes her seriously. I really don't think she's as bad as folks make her out. She actually has a few middle of the road positions.
I played third base and pitched as well, until I got to American Legion ball when I was pulled from the infield. That's why I picked up tennis. Too damned boring sitting on the bench for three or four games. Anyway, your throwing motion is a bit like an infielder's.
Good luck with all of that.
-Robert
I have lately been reading about biomechanics of the serve at TennisPlayer.net, and I think side arming is a good thing. This is sound technique from an injury standpoint, and that probably explains why Drakulie is able to serve increasingly harder in long matches.
What is good is that his left shoulder joint, right shoulder joint and elbow are pretty much in a straight line. It is bad for the rotator cuff for the upper arm to make angle higher than 0 degrees with shoulder line. This is possibly well known to baseball players, but was news to me.
Most pros do keep their upper arm in line with the shoulders as well. The difference is that the pros dip their left shoulder more than drakulie and their arms look a little more vertical.
What is good is that his left shoulder joint, right shoulder joint and elbow are pretty much in a straight line. It is bad for the rotator cuff for the upper arm to make angle higher than 0 degrees with shoulder line. This is possibly well known to baseball players, but was news to me.
Most pros do keep their upper arm in line with the shoulders as well. The difference is that the pros dip their left shoulder more than drakulie and their arms look a little more vertical.
boojay
Hall of Fame
drakulie said:
my serve is garbage. it's been over a month already and my back still hurts. Then again, it's my own fault though since I won't stop playing. I figured if I didn't hit hard serves that would be enough for me to heal--not the case at all.
I did managed a 110 mph the other day, but at a cost, I re-aggravated it. Right now it's not so bad, however, I can still feel it. Really hard to sleep at night and I feel a little pain whenever I lift my arm. Groundstrokes are painless though, so that's why I keep playing
.Seems like old balls are immune to slow down. I placed the gun on the back fence and the gun clocked it at 79mph. The serve was probly around the 80s.
The gun also clocked my flat serve going at 39mph when I hit the ball right towards it. Outside was very windy that day. When I threw the ball forward it would come right back at me.
I took the batterys out and put the old ones back in. This fixed the stuck 5 problem. However, it does not fix the blinking light problem I am experiencing when I accidently slamed into my radar gun. Tenth digit flashes a 0 and the 1st digit flashes a u every time the mph light blinks. The gun has been running for over 72 hours on Duracel Ultra and it is still not out of power.
The gun also clocked my flat serve going at 39mph when I hit the ball right towards it. Outside was very windy that day. When I threw the ball forward it would come right back at me.
I took the batterys out and put the old ones back in. This fixed the stuck 5 problem. However, it does not fix the blinking light problem I am experiencing when I accidently slamed into my radar gun. Tenth digit flashes a 0 and the 1st digit flashes a u every time the mph light blinks. The gun has been running for over 72 hours on Duracel Ultra and it is still not out of power.
boojay
Hall of Fame
drakulie said:
here's a little preview of where I'm at thus far:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12nRc_H-WzM
I put in some new batteries and it is back to normal. Do you have any idea what the tuning fork is?
http://www.opticsplanet.net/speedtrac-tuning-fork.html
This time instead of using Duracell Ultra I've put in President's Choice batteries.
Product of Westfair Foods which is owned by Loblaws. (I am refering to the batteries.)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did some searching and found out what the tuning fork does. Hit the tuning fork on a hard surface and then hold it up against the radar gun. If the gun measures the speed stated on the tuning fork then it is functioning properly.
I think the SpeedTrec X requires X band tuning forks. The Bushnell guns require K band tuning forks.
Drakulie do you have a tuning fork for your radar gun?
http://www.opticsplanet.net/speedtrac-tuning-fork.html
This time instead of using Duracell Ultra I've put in President's Choice batteries.
Product of Westfair Foods which is owned by Loblaws. (I am refering to the batteries.)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did some searching and found out what the tuning fork does. Hit the tuning fork on a hard surface and then hold it up against the radar gun. If the gun measures the speed stated on the tuning fork then it is functioning properly.
I think the SpeedTrec X requires X band tuning forks. The Bushnell guns require K band tuning forks.
Drakulie do you have a tuning fork for your radar gun?
Skuludo,
If you found anything in the net about how a tuning fork helps to a calibrate a radar gun, please post the link. I am very curious.
People who want to measure the absolute maximum velocity may be interested in this Radar gun:
http://www.astroproducts.net/Velocity1.htm
It requires another person to operate, but the advantage is it records the fastest speed it sees during the time trigger is squeezed. Drakulie's radar gun record the first speed that it sees that is above a certain cutoff speed(35 mph I think). This means that, in order to prevent it from recording the racket speed rather than ball speed, you are forced to place it at distance where you are out of its range. That means measuring less than maximum speed.
The Bushnell gun can be held by someone standing behind the server. It has a range of 80 feet so you can stand behind the fence. You can also measure speeds of forehands, backhands, etc...
Measuring groundshot speeds would be very tricky with Drakulie's radar. In a rally, it may pick up the opponent's shot coming towards you, and once it does that, it will hold that reading for several seconds before it scans for another ball.
If you found anything in the net about how a tuning fork helps to a calibrate a radar gun, please post the link. I am very curious.
People who want to measure the absolute maximum velocity may be interested in this Radar gun:
http://www.astroproducts.net/Velocity1.htm
It requires another person to operate, but the advantage is it records the fastest speed it sees during the time trigger is squeezed. Drakulie's radar gun record the first speed that it sees that is above a certain cutoff speed(35 mph I think). This means that, in order to prevent it from recording the racket speed rather than ball speed, you are forced to place it at distance where you are out of its range. That means measuring less than maximum speed.
The Bushnell gun can be held by someone standing behind the server. It has a range of 80 feet so you can stand behind the fence. You can also measure speeds of forehands, backhands, etc...
Measuring groundshot speeds would be very tricky with Drakulie's radar. In a rally, it may pick up the opponent's shot coming towards you, and once it does that, it will hold that reading for several seconds before it scans for another ball.
The only people who can "calabirate" the radar gun is the manufacturer. Calabirate in this context means to "check" the radar gun. If the radar gun does not clock the speed of what the tuning fork says then you will need to send the radar gun in for repair.
I also have the Bushnell Speedster 2 gun as well. I've tested it on groundstrokes and I can see the ball accelerate. Same with serves.
My hitting partner tried to clock my serve standing behind me, but had no success. More testing needs to be done because he only managed to record one serve.
The JUGS gun can be used for tennis I think. The advertisment says it will clock a baseball right when the ball leaves a pitchers hands. To confirm whether it works in tennis someone will need to go to the JUGS offical site and email a rep.
I also have the Bushnell Speedster 2 gun as well. I've tested it on groundstrokes and I can see the ball accelerate. Same with serves.
My hitting partner tried to clock my serve standing behind me, but had no success. More testing needs to be done because he only managed to record one serve.
The JUGS gun can be used for tennis I think. The advertisment says it will clock a baseball right when the ball leaves a pitchers hands. To confirm whether it works in tennis someone will need to go to the JUGS offical site and email a rep.
Mike Cottrill
Hall of Fame
This Bushnell gun, well the one unit I have seen and used, does not take measurements very well. It could be a defective unit though. The owner sent the first one in for repair and I’m not sure it they “fixed” it or sent a new one. At any rate, it would only take measurements about 50% of the time on serves. It would not measure hard flat serves of mine anyway. One time it measured 25 mph for a flat out wide un-returnable. I think it measured my foot speed lol. This particular gun anyway was a POS. It would measure spin serves okay, but those were down in the low 90’s high 80’s . 110 for tennis??? If you get this one, make sure you can return it if you are not satisfied.
Mike
