My shot tolerance is horrible.
- Thread starter Hunter Rice
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D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
drop feed yourself a bucket of balls from varying heights (especially ones like 10-15ft high)... and varying distances from you... hit out.
...
how’d you do?
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kramer woodie
Professional
Hunter Rice
I already above posted an answer to your question. Since, then I have thought of another way to help you think about playing against a pusher. So here we go.
When your are hitting balls from 3 feet behind the baseline to your opponents baseline, the ball slows down before it reaches your opponents baseline because of friction. The more spin you put on the ball, the more friction between the air and the felt, the more your ball slows down.
So, let us use a scale of 1 to 10. One being a slow, moon ball or loopy spin or lob. Ten being as hard as you can hit, low over the net power shot. Now we can say 5 to 6 are normal rally balls. Ok?
Now when a ball is hit to you short, you do not have to hit the ball 79 or 80 feet to get it deep. You don't have to hit a 5 to 6 or even a
7 to 9 return. Why? You are closer to the net, needing the ball to only travel 45 to 50 feet. Do you need to hit a 7 to 10 shot to take time away from your opponent. NO!!! You can dial back the power to a 5 to 7 to have more control focusing on placement. Being closer to the net and the ball needing to travel less distance, there is less friction affecting the speed of your shot. Thus, you are taking time away from your
opponent by hitting a more controlled, high percentage return.
Now if you don't hit an outright winner, if your placement is good pulling your opponent out wide, you can be in position to get a weak return and...having followed you placement to the net have the opportunity to hit a angled volley or a deep volley to the other side of the court for the winner.
It's strange, but you can even win points hitting a 1 to 5 stroke. If, your shot bounces 2 to 3 feet behind your opponent. As long as they can
not get to it while it is in the air. Thus, the sayings, "Keep the Ball in Front of You"..."Play the Ball, don't let the Ball Play You".
Think about this and put it into practice. I think you will find with this attitude, plus being patience, you will find yourself beating some
pushers.
Aloha & Good Luck
Dragy
Legend
This's not very convincing. Any source to support?
kramer woodie
Professional
Dragy
Why would you need a source for support? How many threads have been posted wanting info on a slippery cross string to use as a cross?
Why would anyone need a low-coefficient of friction between a main string and a cross string? A coefficient is used to quantify the drag or
resistance of an object in a fluid environment such as air or water!
A baseball pitcher throws a fastball 100mph. That same pitcher throws a curveball 82mph. Why? The slower speed allows the seams to
through friction with the air to bite into the air allowing the ball to curve. A tennis player hitting a 120mph flat first serve does not have that
serve bounce on the other side of the net at 120mph. The speed of the serve was measured within approx. 1 foot after contact. Now when
it comes to a kicker or an American Twist serve the ball is not struck in the same way as a flat serve because the velocity of a flat serve
would overcome and negate the spin dominating and the ball would not kick up or up and out to either the right or left.
It is the same concept as in escaping the gravitational pull of earth's gravity. Without a constant energy force a missile will fail to reach
orbit. A tennis ball is influenced by earth's gravity and friction also. Once it is struck, there is no further energy being applied, thus the ball
will slow as it travels more distance and will slow even more as it's spin (felt; much like the seams of a baseball) bites the air (a fluid environment).
Most every person in this forum understands that the right amount of spin will keep the ball from hitting the back fence on the fly. Why?
Simple, the spin biting the air (friction) causes the ball to curve back down onto the court. Thus, the talk about shaping your strokes with
spin for control and to keep from overhitting.
Aloha
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
1. It's the Magnus effect that brings the ball down.
2. You would have to compare the ∆V from impact to bounce of two serves that were struck at the same velocity and different spin rates.
J
kramer woodie
Professional
JO11yroger
Magnus is above my pay grade. I will have to look that up. I might even get payed more.
Aloha
kramer woodie
Professional
JO11yroger
Thanks, you are right. Could have used so many fewer words! It's been a long time since Physics in high school. Forgot that one.
Aloha
thehustler
Semi-Pro
What is your game exactly? You a power player? Counter puncher? Serve and Volley? All court?
I agree with others on here. You beat other people who play like you, so you're the better of playing at your own game. But someone who sucks the fun out of it with high percentage shots isn't much fun. I know it's hard to get in a 20 shot rally point after point, especially when you're used to winning in 10 shots or less. The best thing you can do though is be patient. I see this all the time when I play. I try to play smart. I use angles, mix my spin and speeds and try to go for winners on high % shots. My opponents like to go for too much too soon and it typically backfires. Sure sometimes they'll get a few winners, but whatever. I know if I keep them in a rally I'm going to win. Go for angles, mix it up. Hit some deep, hit some short and with angles as well. Move your opponent around. Eventually you'll get a shot you want to put away or force an error. You also can't be afraid to miss. A lot of people play that way. We don't want to hit wide or long or in the net, but we all do, even the pros. So just accept it and be patient. This will help more than anything. Maybe you hit 30 winners, maybe you hit 3, but eventually you can wear your opponent down and start getting the shots you want and your opponent can only say 'too good'.
I agree with others on here. You beat other people who play like you, so you're the better of playing at your own game. But someone who sucks the fun out of it with high percentage shots isn't much fun. I know it's hard to get in a 20 shot rally point after point, especially when you're used to winning in 10 shots or less. The best thing you can do though is be patient. I see this all the time when I play. I try to play smart. I use angles, mix my spin and speeds and try to go for winners on high % shots. My opponents like to go for too much too soon and it typically backfires. Sure sometimes they'll get a few winners, but whatever. I know if I keep them in a rally I'm going to win. Go for angles, mix it up. Hit some deep, hit some short and with angles as well. Move your opponent around. Eventually you'll get a shot you want to put away or force an error. You also can't be afraid to miss. A lot of people play that way. We don't want to hit wide or long or in the net, but we all do, even the pros. So just accept it and be patient. This will help more than anything. Maybe you hit 30 winners, maybe you hit 3, but eventually you can wear your opponent down and start getting the shots you want and your opponent can only say 'too good'.
Dragy
Legend
Look, either I got it wrong, or something was misstated in your message. With your examples, I'm not familiar with baseball pitch mechanics, but suppose it works similar with serve: spin serve travels slower right off the stringbed. Because of contact happens with tilted face aka angled swing, and less racquet head speed is converted into ball speed, but spin is applied.
Now the ball spin for given ball forward speed creates Magnus effect, as jolly mentioned, which is interpreted differently than "air friction", but that is maybe just the reverse. Anyway, I haven't seen any claims, let alone evidence, that the spin slows down the ball. Topspin makes ball curve downwards, but not slow it down. Slice balls are slower initially due to the stroke technique, and they also travel longer before bounce (due to Magnus effect keeping the trajectory higher, straighter, countering the gravity to some extent) therefore loosing more speed by the bounce.
If you wanna discuss this casually, felt increases air friction if the ball spins or not. If it does, spin increases friction on one side of the ball - the one that "travels faster through the air", meanwhile decreasing the friction of the opposite side, which "travels slower". Ones again, it's close to Magnus effect basis. Now if those friction changes are proportional or not - I dunno. It's possible you are formally right, and spin increases the rate of ball slowdown. Once again, never seen any evidence and I don't think it's significant.
Back to tennis reality, it's obvious the same swing speed will give the ball more speed if the hit is flat. However, the practical use of flat shots with any decent margins over the net/inside the lines is limited. At current level of tennis development, even for rec players, topspin shots actually allow players to put more speed on the ball.
kramer woodie
Professional
Ah, but the question is still, does the ball travel faster 78 feet from point of impact or is the ball speed slowing after impact? At what distance will the ball loose velocity? Is that lose of velocity due to gravity or friction through a fluid medium?
Why is it that balls struck at the Colorado baseball stadium travel further through thinner air at 5000 feet than at sea level? The ball is
spinning aka Magnus effect. Why is it in high humidity balls travel slower? How does the distance from impact slow the rotational spin of the
ball?
Does the lack of a constant energy source cause the ball to lose velocity as friction through a fluid medium cause the ball to lose spin and velocity? So, back to the original thought, is a ball traveling as fast 79 feet after energy is applied as it was 1 foot after energy was applied?
Maybe one of you Math professionals can work up an equation explaining why a tennis ball can not be hit 100/200/300 feet and how the effect of friction slows spin and velocity.
Aloha
Why is it that balls struck at the Colorado baseball stadium travel further through thinner air at 5000 feet than at sea level? The ball is
spinning aka Magnus effect. Why is it in high humidity balls travel slower? How does the distance from impact slow the rotational spin of the
ball?
Does the lack of a constant energy source cause the ball to lose velocity as friction through a fluid medium cause the ball to lose spin and velocity? So, back to the original thought, is a ball traveling as fast 79 feet after energy is applied as it was 1 foot after energy was applied?
Maybe one of you Math professionals can work up an equation explaining why a tennis ball can not be hit 100/200/300 feet and how the effect of friction slows spin and velocity.
Aloha
Dragy
Legend
Wait, here was your claim, exactly:
Simple as that, spin is used to control the ball trajectory and vary bounce.
Hitting with spin, meanwhile, might give the ball less speed initially, if the same racquet speed is used, compared to pure flat hit. If this is what you meant, well, it was hard to pick from your description.
No one argues ball slows down traveling through the air. It’s just that this slowdown isn’t affected by spin, while trajectory is.
Simple as that, spin is used to control the ball trajectory and vary bounce.
Hitting with spin, meanwhile, might give the ball less speed initially, if the same racquet speed is used, compared to pure flat hit. If this is what you meant, well, it was hard to pick from your description.
kramer woodie
Professional
Dragy
I entire point of my first post on this subject was that When You Are Closer to the Net hitting a return shot, you do not have to swing with
full power because the ball has less distance to travel and will not slow down as much as a ball that is hit from the baseline. Using a less
powerful swing will increase your percentage of hitting a successful winner and or your placement of the shot will help setup a weak return which you can volley for a winner.
I see so many young players move into the court on short balls an actually swing harder at those short balls than they do at balls they return
from behind the baseline. They are literally trying to crush the ball and instead mishit a sure winning shot into the net or into the fence on the fly.
That's it in a nutshell. That's all folks!
Aloha
dominikk1985
Legend
Isn't shot tolerance the ability to return hard hit balls?
Btw most lack of consistency is lack of footwork and sometimes overhitting.
Try to be like Federer in one of his half assed hitting sessions. Fed will swing at 60 % of his max swingspeed in practice and just hit it back but his footwork is always top notch no matter if the opponent hits junk or a hard shot. Then hit a shot at 60-70% intensity but still make the opponent run by hitting wide or to a line.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
My definition is being able to patiently sustain a rally without pulling the trigger prematurely; ie the ability to "tolerate" a rally.
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
side note... one drill i do regularly, especially against guys i can beat, is just focus on shot tolerance... not quite the bunty/pusher... i'm still swinging out, but i'm choosing safe targets, 3/4 pace, and i want my opponent to get it... the goal is that every point lasts 10-12 shots (ie. i hit it 5-6 shots).
my "normal" game, is hit deep and aggressive, hopefully earn a short ball, attack & approach, finish at net... rinse and repeat... against say a 4.0 with an obviously weak bh, or against one that is consistent, but no particular weapons (other than footspeed) it's pretty easy to do... but recently for example, i never went for aggressive shots (even on short balls), hit heavy loopy balls, easy enough for them to get it, every time. it really tests our focus, and makes for a fun battle, that's entertaining to play & watch.
