Do pushers have infinite shot tolerance?

[zaph]

My nemesis is the super pusher at our club. His game looks awful, feet all over the place, swings the racket like a frying pan. Yet he gets to every ball and it is like playing a wall.

He was on the opposite doubles team and I started hitting forehand to forehand to him. That's when I decided to see if I could actually find his shot tolerance, surely it couldn't be infinite, he must miss eventually?

So I lowered the power, still producing a proper stroke with topspin, and sent it back over and over again. Not trying to hit it past him, just get it in and see if he missed. He frying panned it back over and over again. Five shot, ten shots, fifteen shots. At which point my partner, thinking I had lost my mind, crossed, and voleyed. Straight into the net as it turned out, but the idea was sound.

Still would he have missed if I could have kept it up long enough? Or do pushers have infinite shot tolerance?

 

[LeeD]

Good pusher's do indeed have infinite shot tolerance.
However, once they come upon a shot they can't handle, or a player of a higher level, they start to miss like everyone else, once they see their normal returns getting pummelled repeatedly.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

Lol, i think so. If I simulated play like a pusher, I would switch to a continental grip and just aim to lob everything high over the net. I think the more mid-court-bouncing topspin you send to me, the easier it would be for me to lob - it would be hard for me to miss unless you started actively trying to move me around, and/or force me to direct my shot (eg. passing shot, or even higher lob).

 

[Topspin Shot]

Not infinite but very high, lol. But most high level players have super high shot tolerances. So you have to force the issue to make them miss.

 

[NE1for10is?]

The remedy that works for me is to step well inside the court and take the ball early, on the rise and out in front of you. You don't have to hit it hard to do this, but just place it well to his weaker side and with some topspin for safety. It seems like you're not doing much when you do this, but what happens is that since your are inside the court you are taking away his time. Pushers don't like that. They like to have all the time in the world to run down a ball. When you take away his time, and he is on the run, you will probably get a lob or a volley that you can put away. This takes some practice to hit a mid-court ball without overhitting, (you have to prepare the racquet well ahead of time and keep the feet moving while you're getting into position), but once you get the knack of it you'll rarely lose to a pusher again, and you'll wonder why you ever had problems with them.

 

[user92626]

Or do pushers have infinite shot tolerance?

Their tolerance corresponds with the depth of mediocrity of their opponent's skills.

You seem very obsessed and judgmental of how other people play.

 

[canuckfan]

pushers like long rallies. they enjoy the physical and mental exercise of hitting the ball in long exchanges. you wont ever break him down this way, you will just help him get into a groove.

the best way to beat a pusher is to force him to net with deliberate and controlled short balls, and then pass him/lob him. put pressure on him to cover the court vertically. you will need patience and a strong passing game. you'll also need to develop the ability to control spin and placement without taking major risk. the blunt truth is that if you cant beat a pusher your game has fundamental weaknesses that need improvement.

p.s. having an efficient net game of your own will be a big help. focus on placement on your approaches and then hit a firm volley (not too much power) angled away from your opponent. always expect another ball.

 

[goran_ace]

It's not shot tolerance, it's called patience. Some people don't feel the urgency to end the point as quickly as possible, they are willing to extend the point and either wait for the ball they want or for you to miss.

 

[goran_ace]

Not necessarily disagreeing, but as for beating a pusher, I don't think you can always assume they can't volley or put away overheads. Or if you aren't very good at the net coming to the net may not be the solution either. The general idea is to take them out of their comfort zone. Don't let them play the whole match in the middle of the court. Put them in situations where they are forced into going for a low percentage shot or make them hit the ball where you want it.

 

[user92626]

It's not shot tolerance, it's called patience. Some people don't feel the urgency to end the point as quickly as possible, they are willing to extend the point and either wait for the ball they want or for you to miss.

What is this "urgency" you're talking about? Like you gotta finish the match quickly so you can go pick up diapers for your newborn before your favorite store closes?

I don't know what anyone thinks but if I'm out to play to tennis, I like to get to hit as much as possible, ie staying in the point. It's much better than running around to pick up arrant balls or exchanging courts.

 

[goran_ace]

What is this "urgency" you're talking about? Like you gotta finish the match quickly so you can go pick up diapers for your newborn before your favorite store closes?

I don't know what anyone thinks but if I'm out to play to tennis, I like to get to hit as much as possible, ie staying in the point. It's much better than running around to pick up arrant balls or exchanging courts.

Sorry man, wasn't talking about you specifically. General observation of other people. Some people get visibly uncomfortable if the point goes more than 3 or 4 strokes. I've worked with some very impatient kids who did seem like they were in a hurry to go somewhere. Every other shot was a winner or an error. I also know adults who are impatient but could be for other reasons. Buddy of mine had knee replacement surgery and doesn't move very well. He knows if you move him around eventually he's not going to be able to stay with it so if it goes 3 or 4 shots he goes all-in on the next shot.

 

[Mick]

i think you have a problem playing him because when he plays you, he plays his normal game but when you play him, you don't play your normal game. Instead, you would alter your game to try to defeat him.

 

[oble]

Still would he have missed if I could have kept it up long enough? Or do pushers have infinite shot tolerance?

He could most likely keep going, unless you start to mix in some variety in your forehand, like hit one short wide angle, then hit the next one deeper to force him to pop a weaker reply for you or your partner to punish.

 

[HughJars]

You can learn a lot from pushers. First step is to appreciate the way they play. It takes skill to get the ball back over and over and over. Second step, keep playing your natural game. Dont fall into the trap of trying to match them in patience if its not the natural thing for you to do. Easier to say than execute.

 

[HughJars]

Their tolerance corresponds with the depth of mediocrity of their opponent's skills.

You seem very obsessed and judgmental of how other people play.

Hang on, so you're hypocritically judging someone on being judgemental on the basis of a few sentences. Shows the mark of the person you are.

 

[Kalin]

Hang on, so you're hypocritically judging someone on being judgemental on the basis of a few sentences. Shows the mark of the person you are.

Or maybe the pusher criticism hit a bit too close to home...

 

[user92626]

Hang on, so you're hypocritically judging someone on being judgemental on the basis of a few sentences. Shows the mark of the person you are.

Classic faulty counter argument. Being judgmental is alright when it's reasonable.

Kalin, I'd be proud if I got the consistency and the fitness that you find of a pusher. If anything it more aligns with the objectives of rec tennis.

 

[user92626]

Sorry man, wasn't talking about you specifically. General observation of other people. Some people get visibly uncomfortable if the point goes more than 3 or 4 strokes. I've worked with some very impatient kids who did seem like they were in a hurry to go somewhere. Every other shot was a winner or an error. I also know adults who are impatient but could be for other reasons. Buddy of mine had knee replacement surgery and doesn't move very well. He knows if you move him around eventually he's not going to be able to stay with it so if it goes 3 or 4 shots he goes all-in on the next shot.

My "urgency" question was just rhetorical. It's not urgency at all. Rather, it's risk calculation. If a player sucks at sustaining a long rally, ie he often comes out a loser, he's gonna be adverse to it whenever a long rally comes up.

 

[dominikk1985]

I sometimes play with a very unpleasant to play with player. he can hit the ball hard and in warmup he is in full ballbash mode. however when the match starts he becomes an uber pusher. he just slices, moonballs, drop shots and every once in a while he will try to hit a ball as hard as possible. he also has a hard first but very soft second serve (unless he bashes a second serve like a first which he will sometimes do).

not very nice to play against as you get no rhythm at all.

 

[Kalin]

Kalin, I'd be proud if I got the consistency and the fitness that you find of a pusher. If anything it more aligns with the objectives of rec tennis.

Oh, I absolutely agree with that. We all push sometimes at the rec level; it's very hard to play aggressively throughout the whole match in the amateur ranks.

But there is a difference between pushing occasionallly and pushing all the time. There is also a reason why pushing all the time is universally despised by all non-pushers- the reason is that it is an ugly game. Unfair? Maybe so... But aggressive, attack-minded approach is valued in all sports while playing defense all the time is derided. Just ask Jose Mourinho.

 

[g4driver]

The key to beating pushers is being patience.

You can't out-push a pusher. But you can beat them up.

Some guys can only push. That is their entire game. Their weapon is patience and knowing that most rec players will succumb to their evil game of tennis. :twisted: lol

But when a pusher comes up against an equal patient player who possesses more offensive weapons like speed, more powerful groundstrokes and the ability to hit volleys, swing-volleys, and overheads, the pusher will lose.

This happened to me twice this week against USTA 4.0 players. Won the first sets in both matches, 2 and 1, and both opponents changed to pushing. The first guy was hitting the short flat slices to the AD court, and the next guy was giving me the no-pace loopy topspin. Each time, I found myself down 4-1 in the second set due to my impatience and my overhitting, and both times, I switched from my Steam 99S with Cyclone Tour to the PTG/HH setups and won 5 games in a row to take the sets from the "I will push my way to victory." I can flatten out a ball much easier with Pacific Tough Gut/ Head Hawk and when I need to flatten out a ball with a 16x15 Steam 99S vs a pusher, this setup works much better for me than full poly.

Sometimes you beat someone in the first set pretty easily 0,1 or 2, and the opponent changes their strategy and will resort to pushing. When facing pushers, the best result I have discovered, is to be patient and wait for the ball I want, and punish it. I move five to six feet into the court if the pusher is hitting short, and start hitting that loopy crap on the rise and the pushing strategy falls apart.

And yes, it feels good to steam roll a pusher 5 games straight after they are up 4-1.

 

[dlam]

First of all I think you have to give the Pusher the respect for being able to retrieve balls and make the rally's endless Even though pusher does not possess power to hit a clean winner. He wins points by not making errors
Have to respect the patience of a pusher.
Having said that I think the way to beat a pusher is to have enough patience to wait for a short sitter that can go for winner or setup you up for volley at the net