My volleys (video), criticism needed !

[Ballinbob]

Hey everyone

Finally got around to filming my volleys today. They are the weakest part of my game right now, but I'm determined to make them better because I know its a crucial part of the game.

Please critique and tell me what I can be doing better and what I'm doing right as well so I dont change that.

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2wIflE46C8

Thanks

 

[BirdWalkR]

First step is shoulder turn and you turn your shoulder on your bh volley somewhat but not really at all on the fh volley. and you dont really step into your volleys. i believe for the bh volley you step in with your right foot and for the fh volley you step in with your left foot
Like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbZIeO5gias

Your a better volleyer than me so take my advice with a grain of salt

 

[Ballinbob]

Thanks BirdWalk, I never really noticed that.

Hopefully with the shoulder turn and more aggressive footwork I can get some more pop on my volleys.

 

[Jonny S&V]

Definitely more shoulder turn and weight-transfer if time-allows. Make sure that when you're stepping with the off-foot that you're not crossing over your other foot (closing off the hips). If you're wanting more pop on your volleys, lay the wrist back a bit more if you have time (and the timing).

 

[USERNAME]

You gotta bend your knees more, try to get as close to eye level with the net as you can comfortably. You neeed to get more of a shoulder turn in there and explode forward to make volleys (your waiting in the vid). Both fh and bh volleys need to be caught more out in front and continue extending after contact to get more on the ball.

 

[Ballinbob]

Thanks jonny and username.

Looks like the number one thing to focus on then is shoulder turn. That I will work on and I'll post a video later this week for you guys to see my progress.

However Username, I do feel like I'm hitting my volleys in front. The goal of this video (for me) was to make sure I'm making good contact with the ball, to hit in front, and not to chop down. I do agree on everything else though

 

[USERNAME]

Thanks jonny and username.

Looks like the number one thing to focus on then is shoulder turn. That I will work on and I'll post a video later this week for you guys to see my progress.

However Username, I do feel like I'm hitting my volleys in front. The goal of this video (for me) was to make sure I'm making good contact with the ball, to hit in front, and not to chop down. I do agree on everything else though

You get the ball in front but not as far out as you should (especially on the bh). Full extension of your arm should happen on EVERY volley against a ball machine. You also don't keep going through the ball, you hit then come back so you don't really finish.

 

[Ballinbob]

I'll keep that in mind for next time. Again thanks buddy

 

[Jonny S&V]

You get the ball in front but not as far out as you should (especially on the bh). Full extension of your arm should happen on EVERY volley against a ball machine. You also don't keep going through the ball, you hit then come back so you don't really finish.

Your arm should be straight on every volley? If that's what you're saying, I disagree whole-heartedly... As for the whole 'hitting in front' mantra, I feel like you can have too much of a good thing, so I personally don't think BB needs to hit the ball anymore in front than he already is...

 

[WildVolley]

Your volleys aren't too bad, but with a little work they could be a lot better. I think you could have more forward movement into the volley and a little more shoulder turn. A positive thing is that you are keeping the motion simple which is really key to learning. I've heard it said that you should try to volley with the body, meaning move to the ball and let it come to you. It is good to take the volley in front of the body, but it isn't as far in front as a lot of the modern swings. Move your body, let it come to you and stick it.

I'd also advise aiming your volleys more by setting up targets on the court. You hit every forehand volley in that video cross court. By forcing yourself to hit deep to both corners as well as short to both corners, you'll start to get more of a feel how to control the volley.

 

[Ballinbob]

Your volleys aren't too bad, but with a little work they could be a lot better. I think you could have more forward movement into the volley and a little more shoulder turn. A positive thing is that you are keeping the motion simple which is really key to learning. I've heard it said that you should try to volley with the body, meaning move to the ball and let it come to you. It is good to take the volley in front of the body, but it isn't as far in front as a lot of the modern swings. Move your body, let it come to you and stick it.

I'd also advise aiming your volleys more by setting up targets on the court. You hit every forehand volley in that video cross court. By forcing yourself to hit deep to both corners as well as short to both corners, you'll start to get more of a feel how to control the volley.

Thanks ! Yeah I will for sure work on using more shoulders more and attacking the ball

I really want to start S&Ving more often because so many players get lost and don't know how to counter it. I've always had the serve for it, just not the volleys. Hopefully when I start incorporating my shoulders more into my shot and using my whole body that part of my game will come around nicely

 

[Limpinhitter]

Hey everyone

Finally got around to filming my volleys today. They are the weakest part of my game right now, but I'm determined to make them better because I know its a crucial part of the game.

Please critique and tell me what I can be doing better and what I'm doing right as well so I dont change that.

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2wIflE46C8

Thanks

Not bad at all. Here's what I see.

- You're standing too tall. Spread your stance and bend your knees more.

- Take the racquet back with upper body turn, not with your arm. And hit with your side turned.

- You are hitting too far out in front. Contact should be about even with your lead foot.

- Step through the shot more. Then recover back to your ready position. You seem a bit tentative.

- Keep the angle of racquet and arm constant, and keep your arm comfortably bent. Sometimes you straighten your arm and let the racquet head drop a bit.

 

[USERNAME]

Your arm should be straight on every volley? If that's what you're saying, I disagree whole-heartedly... As for the whole 'hitting in front' mantra, I feel like you can have too much of a good thing, so I personally don't think BB needs to hit the ball anymore in front than he already is...

Hitting in front is how you get stick buddy. And as for the straight arm, bh as long as it's a bit above the level of the net your arm should be straight at contact and through the finish, fh a slight bend is ok (and for some more comfortable) but the higher the ball the straighter the arm. On both sides once the balls above the shoulder your arm should be straight. Believe what you want but to the op, this is how I was taught to execute the volley (private coaching, academy coaching).

 

[6-2/6-4/6-0]

Biggest thing that I see (so hard to tell much about how you react against a moving opponent - the critical aspect of S&V tennis - when having sitters pitched to you from a ball machine) is that you need to move a lot closer to the net. You should be able to touch the net with the head of your racket in an extended arm when you are volleying (or at least be close to being able to do this). This is what really opens up the court for you and steals time from your opponent. Watch videos of Mac and Edberg - those guys were right on top of the net.

Your technique isn't off-hand bad, but having balls shot right to you in the center of the court at shoulder height isn't realistic for assessing your volley technique. When you're lunging from side to side and moving forward to the net a bit with every ball, then you can see what someone really volleys like.

Most importantly, if you want to S&V - you need to get to a point where you are able to feel your way at the net and almost know what's coming next in order to really stymie your opponent. Go out and play points with someone where you have to approach on every ball that doesn't clear the service line (or make up another rule that has to get you into the net to take 'realistic' volleys over and over). You'll either figure it out very quickly and see that you are a natural serve and volleyer, or you'll toil away at it until one day it clicks.

I can't get to the net fast enough most of the time. I wait for the good opening, but once that comes, I don't ever wait for a second - I'm transitioning to net as fast as possible. It scared the stuffing out of me at first, and I wanted to stay back by the service line to have more time to react (which usually meant picking balls off the top of my shoes and half-volleying too much). Then one day a few weeks later it didn't. You refine your technique once you are at that point more effectively than trying to worry about it over-much before. Once you make that mental step to feel comfortable and in control up at the net, you'll (probably) be surprised how quickly the technique adjustments happen just from understanding what happens when the ball comes off your strings responding to different balls.

Last piece of advice - a good net game is 46% about your feet and 46% about the shot you hit to get there, the last (but critical) 8% is what you do with the racket on the volley itself. Be in position, keep your feet moving, and don't come in on junk.

Good luck. You're right, it's something that a lot of players just aren't prepared to deal with and it can be incredibly effective...

 

[tennis_pr0]

On the backhand volley, you tend do drop your racquet face instead of keeping it upright and going forward into the ball.

 

[Ballinbob]

Not bad at all. Here's what I see.

Good stuff like always Limp. I'll be sure to work on that. Like I said number one thing to work on is stepping it and more shoulder turn so I can attack the ball more. I will also be sure to look out I dont let the racket head drop as much. I'm at the point where I can make good contact with the ball and guide it to where I want to go.

Now comes the fun part where I start to do more with my volleys and really attack

Hitting in front is how you get stick buddy. And as for the straight arm, bh as long as it's a bit above the level of the net your arm should be straight at contact and through the finish, fh a slight bend is ok (and for some more comfortable) but the higher the ball the straighter the arm. On both sides once the balls above the shoulder your arm should be straight. Believe what you want but to the op, this is how I was taught to execute the volley (private coaching, academy coaching).

I'm not saying your wrong now, but now I'm really confused. Limp said I'm hitting the ball too much in front, Jonny said I'm just fine, and your saying I'm not hitting the ball in front enough.

Biggest thing that I see (so hard to tell much about how you react against a moving opponent ...

Your post was very thoughtful and I agree. I know that the balls given to me in the video weren't very hard, but I really want to make sure I have decent/good technique before I try harder stuff. If you saw my volleys just one week ago you would have gagged, I used to really slice too much at the ball and I used to shank A LOT.

Once I get my technique down I will definitely start playing harder volleys and moving around more. Getting to the net isn't a problem for me as I've ran track throughout highschool and run everyday.

I saw some glimpses of hope playing S&V with a fellow 4.5 friend yesterday, and I really want to build on that more. I obviously lost more points than I won, but most of that was because I didn't have enough stick on the volley and he was able to pass me. I can make my volleys, they just need more stick. I'll keep you all updated with my volleys though, and thanks for this post

On the backhand volley, you tend do drop your racquet face instead of keeping it upright and going forward into the ball.

Limp noted that as well. Thanks, I'll make sure to watch for that for next time. And good to see you took the attack to your backhand so well (even though I think its good). You have experienced your first troll attack and you handled it well

Welcome to TT haha

 

[Ballinbob]

By the way can anyone shed some light on " hitting in front " issue.

I've heard three different things and now I'm very confused. I personally thought I was hitting in front of my body just fine but I guess thats just me haha

 

[tennis_pr0]

you are hitting in front just fine. As far as having your arm "straight" at contact, your arm should be extended in front of you, which yours is, but being completely straight, if we are getting super technical, would be wrong. You get the punch to your volley by a good shoulder turn when you have time and good use to the wrist/forearm at the contact point. The elbow slightly bent gives more stability to the racquet actually.

 

[Limpinhitter]

By the way can anyone shed some light on " hitting in front " issue.

I've heard three different things and now I'm very confused. I personally thought I was hitting in front of my body just fine but I guess thats just me haha

IMO, in your video you are hitting too far in front on both sides. That is what is causing you to straighten your arm and to drop the racquet head, on both sides, more on the fh than the bh. The only time you should hit with a straight arm and an extended wrist is when you are fully stretched out and have to do that in order to reach the ball. Otherwise, it is optimal to volley with a "slightly" bent elbow and a constant angle between the forearm and racquet.

Remember my pendulum analogy? I explained that the bottom edge of the racquet head travels further than the top edge which slightly opens the racquet face and imparts underspin. You can also think of the slightly bent elbow as the bottom of the pendulum. The result will be the same.

Also, understand that fh's and bh's are NOT symmetrical mirror images of each other. On fh's you hit from the back shoulder, on bh's you hit from the front shoulder. So, you should hit a bit more out front on bh's.

But, don't think too much about that. If you get down by spreading your stance and bending your knees, turn your side to the target and move in to the ball as you make contact, I think that the timing will take care of itself.

PS: Check out Arthur Ashe's volley technique here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf4wrrpzdYc&feature=player_detailpage#t=212s

 

[WildVolley]

By the way can anyone shed some light on " hitting in front " issue.

I've heard three different things and now I'm very confused. I personally thought I was hitting in front of my body just fine but I guess thats just me haha

Volleys should be hit in front. How far in front is the issue. Because most professionals volley with something like the continental grip, the contact point is not as far in front as it would be if you were hitting with a semi-western fh or an eastern bh. Extending way out front with the continental tends to open up the racket face unless you fight it with the wrist. Also, going way out front with the continental tends to limit racket head speed at contact (yes, you can put a little extra speed on the ball by moving it through contact when volleying).

It is something you should experiment with, but I have noticed I stick volleys the best when I let them come in a little less out in front and a little closer to the body. This allows me to accelerate the racket thru the ball and give it a little more punch.

 

[WildVolley]

Just looked at your video again BB, and when it was filmed from the side, you didn't look too far out front. I wouldn't be too concerned with that at the moment. You had some nice bh volleys with a good contact point from my perspective.

 

[tennismonkey]

looks like you aren't extending towards your target. most noticeable on your backhand volleys. you make contact out front but then stop extending so your volleys tend to land short inside the other service box or into the net. keep a firm wrist and really extend towards your target - you'll hit a deep volley. short angled volleys are fine if that's what you are intending to hit but start hitting deep controlled volleys first.

 

[Nellie]

Overall, I would note that most of those volleys are pretty high (above the net at contact), so you should be driving those deep and fast with a pretty closed face and forward step. the low volley (below the net is much more of a touch shot with an open face to lift the ball over the net. It is good to practice both so you can get the different feels

On the forehand, I like the stroke a lot, but you are using all arm. To me, the key to the forehand volley is powering the shot with a slight shoulder rotation and a rotation of the wrist at contact (like you are opening a door knob) to snap the racquet head through the ball.

Your first backhand volley looked pretty good but the rest looked too much like a chop down at the ball. You are not giving yourself much margin for error with that stroke, and I prefer more of a straight punch through the ball with an open racquet face for back spin. Again, I would suggest some slight shoulder rotation and slight wrist extension through the contact with the ball for extra pop.

 

[USERNAME]

Good stuff like always Limp. I'll be sure to work on that. Like I said number one thing to work on is stepping it and more shoulder turn so I can attack the ball more. I will also be sure to look out I dont let the racket head drop as much. I'm at the point where I can make good contact with the ball and guide it to where I want to go.

Now comes the fun part where I start to do more with my volleys and really attack



I'm not saying your wrong now, but now I'm really confused. Limp said I'm hitting the ball too much in front, Jonny said I'm just fine, and your saying I'm not hitting the ball in front enough.





Your post was very thoughtful and I agree. I know that the balls given to me in the video weren't very hard, but I really want to make sure I have decent/good technique before I try harder stuff. If you saw my volleys just one week ago you would have gagged, I used to really slice too much at the ball and I used to shank A LOT.

Once I get my technique down I will definitely start playing harder volleys and moving around more. Getting to the net isn't a problem for me as I've ran track throughout highschool and run everyday.

I saw some glimpses of hope playing S&V with a fellow 4.5 friend yesterday, and I really want to build on that more. I obviously lost more points than I won, but most of that was because I didn't have enough stick on the volley and he was able to pass me. I can make my volleys, they just need more stick. I'll keep you all updated with my volleys though, and thanks for this post



Limp noted that as well. Thanks, I'll make sure to watch for that for next time. And good to see you took the attack to your backhand so well (even though I think its good). You have experienced your first troll attack and you handled it well

Welcome to TT haha

I wasnt directing most of that towards you, only the technical stuff is what I wrote for you. Catch the ball well out in front, I usually make contact ahead of my lead foot, and then continue extending after first contact through the ball. The straight arm thing is not as important as getting the ball in front, you can get away with it, but you will get more pace and skidding action on the ball if you straighten out your arm a bit more. But you know in all honesty those are not your biggest problems! Those are pretty small tweaks you can make (along with a greater shoulder turn), big ones are your lack of knee bend and barely any movement forward through the ball. Volleys really do require lots of leg and foot work.

 

[LeeD]

Possibly you watched a little too much of ClintThompson's volley vid. He volleys like that because his seems to be a reflex volley drill, off a fast incoming ball.
Your vid, the ball machine seems set at a normal or slow speed, so you would need to add the shoulder turn and the footwork, the footwork on the backhand volleys especially, to give yourself a longer contact point so the ball doesn't get dumped into the net. The long contact point is also needed to counter heavy topspin, or heavy slice.
Your volleys seems very flat, meaning you almost dink the ball, but with a short stroke. That is GOOD technique against fast moving flat incoming balls, but doesn't hold up to heavy spin.
I guess you should work on recognizing the time you have. In this vid, you have lots of time, so turn the shoulders, then move the feet.
On faster settings, or harder hit balls, your technique is fine.
And remember, almost all incoming balls hit with heavy spin give you time to move your shoulders and your feet. You gotta move when there is time.

 

[USERNAME]

Possibly you watched a little too much of ClintThompson's volley vid. He volleys like that because his seems to be a reflex volley drill, off a fast incoming ball.
Your vid, the ball machine seems set at a normal or slow speed, so you would need to add the shoulder turn and the footwork, the footwork on the backhand volleys especially, to give yourself a longer contact point so the ball doesn't get dumped into the net. The long contact point is also needed to counter heavy topspin, or heavy slice.
Your volleys seems very flat, meaning you almost dink the ball, but with a short stroke. That is GOOD technique against fast moving flat incoming balls, but doesn't hold up to heavy spin.
I guess you should work on recognizing the time you have. In this vid, you have lots of time, so turn the shoulders, then move the feet.
On faster settings, or harder hit balls, your technique is fine.
And remember, almost all incoming balls hit with heavy spin give you time to move your shoulders and your feet. You gotta move when there is time.

^^^This is good advice^^^

 

[Ballinbob]

Lots of good replies, I really appreciate this. I think I was so caught up in not slicing and shanking my volleys like I normally do I forgot to move. I really had no idea how important that was , but I will be sure to remember that for next time.

Looks like I'm on the way to a good volley, I just need to put in the time and remember what I need to do. Im going to write a list of all the tips in here and take them with me every time I go play and work on a few at a time.

Btw, thanks for the clarification Username, I got what your saying now and I agree.

Give me 2 weeks and I'll be good thanks again everyone

 

[Ballinbob]

Thanks Lee. And believe me I can move, I just forgot too I guess this time. Will keep that in mind

By the way, since you mentioned it , how does one go about volleying heavy topspin shots ? Against my friend the faster at balls werent really a problem ( as you correctly guessed ) but the topspin were .

In guessing that shot requires more shoulder turn and forward movement ? Those seem to be the biggest things lacking

 

[10sEmporer]

volley with the human racket

 

[Nellie]

With a lot of spin, you need to really step aggressively into the volley. If you block back a heavy spinning ball, the spin of the ball will dictate the shot.

 

[LeeD]

Yeah, that's the gist of my last sentence, last post.
Heavy spin comes at you slower than a flat ball, so you need to work on INSTANT recognition of the ball's speed off the opponent's racket, so you can turn and step, or just reach out and block back a winner volley.
Turn and step gives you the long contact point, which effectively counter's any spin, top, side, under, or any combo. But it's hit with a firm wrist, body sideways, and solid UNDERspin....not chopped.