Never seen a better 3.5! (USTA 8.0 4.5F/3.5M vs 4.5M/3.5F)

[dsp9753]

My 8.0 team faced off against the 8.0 team that took out @Cindysphinx earlier. @leech faced off against the same 4.5 opponent that Cindy faced. I was hoping to record that match but the 4.5 guy said no! (First person to not give approval for recording the video.) Leech and his partner played very well against the 4.5 guy that beat Cindy. They eventually lost in a 3rd set tiebreak. The 3.5 lady was standing so close to the net that on at least 4-5 volleys, she was reaching over the net to hit the ball. Unfortunately, my players on court weren't sure but suspected. I had a good view over the net and could definitely see she was making contact on their side of the court.

I ended up recording my D1 court with a 4.5 lady who was bumped down from 5.0 and a 3.5 guy. 4.5 lady hits the ball very hard and aggressively, setting up the 3.5 guy at the net. Their combination of good ground strokes and aggressive net play applied a lot of pressure on the opponents. They won the first set 6-2. 4.5 guy and 3.5 lady switched returning positions so the 4.5 guy was now on the AD. This is typically how I see most mixed pairs play. After switching, the opponents rallied but were eventually beaten 7-5.

@BallBag recorded his own match at D2. If he figured out how to use a camera correctly, he may be posting his own video.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

My 8.0 team faced off against the 8.0 team that took out @Cindysphinx earlier. @leech faced off against the same 4.5 opponent that Cindy faced. I was hoping to record that match but the 4.5 guy said no! (First person to not give approval for recording the video.) Leech and his partner played very well against the 4.5 guy that beat Cindy. They eventually lost in a 3rd set tiebreak. The 3.5 lady was standing so close to the net that on at least 4-5 volleys, she was reaching over the net to hit the ball. Unfortunately, my players on court weren't sure but suspected. I had a good view over the net and could definitely see she was making contact on their side of the court.

I ended up recording my D1 court with a 4.5 lady who was bumped down from 5.0 and a 3.5 guy. 4.5 lady hits the ball very hard and aggressively, setting up the 3.5 guy at the net. Their combination of good ground strokes and aggressive net play applied a lot of pressure on the opponents. They won the first set 6-2. 4.5 guy and 3.5 lady switched returning positions so the 4.5 guy was now on the AD. This is typically how I see most mixed pairs play. After switching, the opponents rallied but were eventually beaten 7-5.

@BallBag recorded his own match at D2. If he figured out how to use a camera correctly, he may be posting his own video.

Aside from her strokes, there are certain things the 4.5 woman was doing that reveal her skill:
- aggressive positioning at the net: she's usually pinching the middle, thus shrinking the court for the opponent
- poaching, even on a difficult BH
- shot placement, especially her volleys

 

[E46luver]

girl in black has classic waiter's tray pancake serve

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

girl in black has classic waiter's tray pancake serve

Disagree: don't just watch the 3 frames prior to contact. The motion shows good loop, racquet drop, acceleration, etc. She does open the racquet face up rather early but that alone doesn't make it a WT serve.

My definition [and yours may differ] is that a WT tray serve has no loop [server tosses the ball and sets the racquet immediately into the horizontal WT position] and thus very little acceleration and obviously no racquet drop.

 

[Ft.S]

Crucial win @dsp9753, thank you for taking that team out of contention

We are tied at 7-1 and 17 individual wins, but unfortunately you edge us up on sets won (39 vs. 37) and sets lost (17 vs. 18)

 

[E46luver]

obnoxious to yell out opponent's lower rating in the middle of a point.
girl in black totally whiffs on a basic slice. 4.5? lol

 

[dsp9753]

Crucial win @dsp9753, thank you for taking that team out of contention

We are tied at 7-1 and 17 individual wins, but unfortunately you edge us up on sets won (39 vs. 37) and sets lost (17 vs. 18)

Welcome and we will take your team out too.

The big match to win the league is in 2 weeks.

 

[dsp9753]

obnoxious to yell out opponent's lower rating in the middle of a point.
girl in black totally whiffs on a basic slice. 4.5? lol

That 4.5 guy shes playing against is a very good player. About 15 years ago, he won USTA 5.5 nationals. He has wicked slices that I am sure would make you look silly too.

 

[E46luver]

Disagree: don't just watch the 3 frames prior to contact.

watch 15-20 frames of entire serve. black serve is 100% arming the ball. zero shoulder turn.
there is minimal loop, drop. just arming acceleration. this is what I call textbook waiter's tray.
nothing wrong with WT serve, they can be very very fast.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

watch 15-20 frames of entire serve. black serve is 100% arming the ball. zero shoulder turn.
there is minimal loop, drop. just arming acceleration. this is what I call textbook waiter's tray.
nothing wrong with WT serve, they can be very very fast.

At 0:36, her shoulders are pointing parallel to the BL. At contact, they have shifted maybe 45 degrees. She loses potential energy by shifting her back right foot forward which causes her to square up too soon. But "zero shoulder turn" is not accurate.

At 0:12, she gets decent racquet drop.

Again, it doesn't match my definition WT.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

obnoxious to yell out opponent's lower rating in the middle of a point.

The point was over.

This can be a good-natured rib or a backhanded compliment; depends on the circumstances.

Of course, it also could have been luck: making the shot once doesn't say much about level. Doing it repeatedly is more telling.

girl in black totally whiffs on a basic slice. 4.5? lol

That implies that a 4.5 will never make such an error. Unrealistic. She was out of position and mis-read the spin and maybe got a slow jump on the ball; I've certainly made tons of worse errors. Doesn't mean she's not a 4.5. Did you see that FH? You're judging her level based on one shot; what if you looked at her entire game? And then compared her vs other peers?

 

[Ft.S]

Welcome and we will take your team out too.

The big match to win the league is in 2 weeks.

Haha, that may be; and no, you cannot record my court

 

[Doan]

He's definitely one of those players that dominate at mixed. He's tall with a good overhead and put away volleys. The female player has to be able to drive/slice shots at him to win. Lobs will get gobbled up.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

Good match. Somewhat difficult to buy that either of the women were recently a 5.0, but the one in black does play net more aggressively than would be expected for 8.0 mixed. 5.0 players usually have a more fundamentally sound service motion than what we see here. But overall a very good player, and probably wins a lot.

 

[E46luver]

we can agree that she is arming the serve the other clue of WT is lack of kick 2nd serve the dink 2nd serve is same, but slower, open faced swing plane when 2nd serve is a slow first serve, that is a big clue of WT.
i have never even seen a 3.0 who clean whiffs a stroke like that

 

[dsp9753]

Good match. Somewhat difficult to buy that either of the women were recently a 5.0, but the one in black does play net more aggressively than would be expected for 8.0 mixed. 5.0 players usually have a more fundamentally sound service motion than what we see here. But overall a very good player, and probably wins a lot.

Black shirt used to be a 5.0 last year but got bumped down. She picked up tennis on her own maybe 6? 7? years ago with minimal training/lessons. Very athletic and skilled to get to this level on her own as an adult.

 

[travlerajm]

My 8.0 team faced off against the 8.0 team that took out @Cindysphinx earlier. @leech faced off against the same 4.5 opponent that Cindy faced. I was hoping to record that match but the 4.5 guy said no! (First person to not give approval for recording the video.) Leech and his partner played very well against the 4.5 guy that beat Cindy. They eventually lost in a 3rd set tiebreak. The 3.5 lady was standing so close to the net that on at least 4-5 volleys, she was reaching over the net to hit the ball. Unfortunately, my players on court weren't sure but suspected. I had a good view over the net and could definitely see she was making contact on their side of the court.

I ended up recording my D1 court with a 4.5 lady who was bumped down from 5.0 and a 3.5 guy. 4.5 lady hits the ball very hard and aggressively, setting up the 3.5 guy at the net. Their combination of good ground strokes and aggressive net play applied a lot of pressure on the opponents. They won the first set 6-2. 4.5 guy and 3.5 lady switched returning positions so the 4.5 guy was now on the AD. This is typically how I see most mixed pairs play. After switching, the opponents rallied but were eventually beaten 7-5.

@BallBag recorded his own match at D2. If he figured out how to use a camera correctly, he may be posting his own video.

I don’t think the 3.5 gal is that strong a 3.5, but she is reasonably well-coached for positioning herself in 8.0 mixed, which makes her a more effective mixed 8.0 player than many 4.0 ladies. The point starting at 1:39, when the opponents hit a weak lob over her head and she crosses to the middle like she should instead of backing up, is a good example (except she was way too far from the net on her volley before the lob).

 

[time_fly]

watch 15-20 frames of entire serve. black serve is 100% arming the ball. zero shoulder turn.
there is minimal loop, drop. just arming acceleration. this is what I call textbook waiter's tray.
nothing wrong with WT serve, they can be very very fast.

I agree, she gets all her power from forward body momentum because she bunny-hops forward while pancaking the serve. But her shoulders and elbow never rotate back into a loaded position during the wind up.

As for the 3.5 guy in question, he’s definitely a strong self-rate. You can point to his less developed serve and ground strokes to justify his level, but based on his athleticism and net coverage he would probably get to 4.0 quickly in men‘s if he sticks to doubles.

 

[Doan]

I agree, she gets all her power from forward body momentum because she bunny-hops forward while pancaking the serve. But her shoulders and elbow never rotate back into a loaded position during the wind up.

As for the 3.5 guy in question, he’s definitely a strong self-rate. You can point to his less developed serve and ground strokes to justify his level, but based on his athleticism and net coverage he would probably get to 4.0 quickly in men‘s if he sticks to doubles.

She may be muscling the ball on the serves - but she looks stronger than a lot of guys so can generate plenty of power. She's definitely stronger than I am with a more powerful serve.

The guys a 3.5C. Went 4-0 lost year in mens 3.5 playing dubs. His team went to Regionals - but doesn't look like he played. He probably would have got bumped to 4.0 playing against the better players at Regionals.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

i have never even seen a 3.0 who clean whiffs a stroke like that

You haven't watched enough 3.0.

And you have never whiffed like that? Yeah, right.

 

[E46luver]

no, i've never whiffed a basic slice like that.
only whiff was a crazy bounce off an ant hill on clay

 

[ptuanminh]

You haven't watched enough 3.0.

And you have never whiffed like that? Yeah, right.

It's hard to whiff like that on slow clay. still everybody whiff lol. and we have a tough guy over here.

 

[JLyon]

that poor girl in white looked scared to death, in the wrong position, at 3.5 stand your ground, shift more to center, would rather my partner be aggressive rather than passive and turn into a liability