Bender
G.O.A.T.
By Big 4 standards, that's just straight up terrible
Of the 'Big 4', who is the worst in each shot?
- Thread starter Sim
- Start date
LOL @ this post, especially the later part. Federer's passing shots in his prime was "fairly decent"? Are you insane? He's still capable of pulling off the insane backhand flick passing shot (he did in the Tsonga QF) but those were regular shots in his prime. Prime Federer's passing shots are probably only second to prime Nadal's and certainly better than Mr. Predictable Murray who hits his passing shots cross court 95% of the time.
WhiskeyEE, Have you ever watched a certain R. Federer, especially the current Roger???
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WhiskeyEE
G.O.A.T.
I'm not joking. Rafa only approaches the net on easy put-aways that most of this forum could make.
Yeah. Why?
Mainad
Bionic Poster
I don't think anyone here would disagree that Murray's 2nd serve is by far his weakest shot and noticeably worse than any of the others. Yet I was a little surprised by those stats. All 4 are in the 50% range, more or less, although Murray's figure puts him way further down the list than the other 3. Frankly I thought Murray would score something like 40% tops!
here is a nice view of one of those passing shots:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xHyvW6TIB08#t=81s
First Serve - Murray, but they all have great first serves. Nadal's is the least powerful but damn if it's not one of the most consistant and reliable first serves. Novak and Fed have great first serves nowadays.
Second Serve - Murray
Forehand - Murray- he's improved greatly but still behind Nadal and Federer(two best forehands of all time) and Djokovic who has a great and versatile forehand. Murray can surpass Djokovic if he adds a little more consistency without dropping in power.
Backhand (drive) - Federer, easily. Not a bad shot but the other three have great backhands.
Slice - Djokovic, not really an effective shot for him. Federer and Murray have amazing slice while Nadal's gets the job done when he needs it to.
Drop Shot - Nadal- simply because he rarely uses it anymore, but really all 4 have a great drop shot
Forehand Volley - Djokovic, he's improved his net game a lot but it's still behind the other 3
Backhand Volley - Djokovic- same as above
Drop Volley - Really can't pick for this one, they all do it very well.
Overhead - Djokovic, obvious
Lob - Federer, but the other 3 have the best 3 lobs of all time.
Mental- Murray but he's gotten better, he's close to overtaking Fed here.
Movement- Federer nowadays.
Passing shot- Federer, but all 4 have great ones
Second Serve - Murray
Forehand - Murray- he's improved greatly but still behind Nadal and Federer(two best forehands of all time) and Djokovic who has a great and versatile forehand. Murray can surpass Djokovic if he adds a little more consistency without dropping in power.
Backhand (drive) - Federer, easily. Not a bad shot but the other three have great backhands.
Slice - Djokovic, not really an effective shot for him. Federer and Murray have amazing slice while Nadal's gets the job done when he needs it to.
Drop Shot - Nadal- simply because he rarely uses it anymore, but really all 4 have a great drop shot
Forehand Volley - Djokovic, he's improved his net game a lot but it's still behind the other 3
Backhand Volley - Djokovic- same as above
Drop Volley - Really can't pick for this one, they all do it very well.
Overhead - Djokovic, obvious
Lob - Federer, but the other 3 have the best 3 lobs of all time.
Mental- Murray but he's gotten better, he's close to overtaking Fed here.
Movement- Federer nowadays.
Passing shot- Federer, but all 4 have great ones
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NEW_BORN
Hall of Fame
The squash forehand.
Anyway just to clear something up, i made those selections based on what i've seen of these 4 in recent times. I didn't want to dig through statistics to see if they backed up my claims, because i think relying on statistics to prove a point can be misleading.
Nadal does not have a "great" backhand.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Sure he does. It might not be the flashiest or prettiest shot but when has it ever really been exposed outside of 2011? It's very consistent and he doesn't make many errors with it. What's lower than great? "Good"? Because it's better than just good. The depth on it has been much better since he's been back too.
single_handed_champion
Professional
Bender
G.O.A.T.
Errani is just so annoying.
Right up there with Bartoli.
Stosur has amazing technique.
dominikk1985
Legend
that is because you only get to see him against top10 opponents in TV. If he Plays nole or ferrer I'm sure he wins 40% or less. but don't Forget that he also Plays a lot of "crappy" Players (like 40-100 ranked) which boost his percentage since they don't have a world class ROS.
World Beater
Hall of Fame
For the Lob:
Djokovic's lob and overhead suck comparitively.
Federer can lob from both offensive and defensive positions.
Nadal is also a beast especially from defensive positions. His lobs on a clay court from a million feet behind the baseline are amazing.
Murray is good offensively on the lob but defensively very average.
2nd serve
Murray easily. Though novak's second serve isnt all the great imo either.
Backhand - Federer. It just breaks down a bit too much these days
Forehand - murray
Return - Federer or nadal depending on the surface.
Slice - novak
Volleys - djokovic
drop shot - murray . he attempts many but his success rate doesnt impress me.
1st serve - Nadal . but its not a bad shot by any means. Its actually a strength just not as great as the other three.
Djokovic's lob and overhead suck comparitively.
Federer can lob from both offensive and defensive positions.
Nadal is also a beast especially from defensive positions. His lobs on a clay court from a million feet behind the baseline are amazing.
Murray is good offensively on the lob but defensively very average.
2nd serve
Murray easily. Though novak's second serve isnt all the great imo either.
Backhand - Federer. It just breaks down a bit too much these days
Forehand - murray
Return - Federer or nadal depending on the surface.
Slice - novak
Volleys - djokovic
drop shot - murray . he attempts many but his success rate doesnt impress me.
1st serve - Nadal . but its not a bad shot by any means. Its actually a strength just not as great as the other three.
pds999
Hall of Fame
Good post. It will be interesting to see if he uses it consistently though, unless his back is really up against the wall.
K
Kilco
Guest
Why thank you
Not sure on lobs though, looks like I may be off on my choice.
You picked Murray for worst passing shot. You sir are a moron, I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul!
Terenigma
G.O.A.T.
Ranked best to worst:
First serve - Murray, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic.
I put Murray higher because when its working, its much better. However, Federer's is far more consistant.
Second serve - Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray.
Murray's needs alot of work, the other 3 have good second serves.
Return of serve - Murray, Nadal, Djokovic, Federer.
4 of the best ROS players in the history of tennis but i think Murray is the best here by a fair way.
FH - Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray.
Federer miles ahead and Murray well behind.
BH - Murray, Djokovic, Nadal, Federer.
Murray and Djokovic are close here but all 3 miles ahead of Federer.
Slice - Federer, Murray, Nadal, Djokovic. -
Murray and Federer are close here but miles ahead of nadal and Djokovic, Djokovic is awful with it.
Drop shop - Federer, Murray, Djokovic, Nadal.
Federer has sublime drop shots and murrays are inconsistant but better than Djokovic's. Nadal's are awful.
Volleys - Federer, Murray, Nadal, Djokovic.
None of the top 4 are really bad at this imo, all equally good but i tend to see Federer/Murray doing it more.
Overhead - Nadal, Federer, Murray, Djokovic. -
Djokovic is the only bad one here, the other 3 are good and usually pretty consistant with it.
Lob - Murray, Nadal, Federer, Djokovic -
I only really see Murray/Nadal use this alot and its usually pretty effective in forcing a UE or buying some time to get back in the rally but in general i dont think any of the top 4 are paticularly bad at it.
Thats my view.
First serve - Murray, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic.
I put Murray higher because when its working, its much better. However, Federer's is far more consistant.
Second serve - Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray.
Murray's needs alot of work, the other 3 have good second serves.
Return of serve - Murray, Nadal, Djokovic, Federer.
4 of the best ROS players in the history of tennis but i think Murray is the best here by a fair way.
FH - Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray.
Federer miles ahead and Murray well behind.
BH - Murray, Djokovic, Nadal, Federer.
Murray and Djokovic are close here but all 3 miles ahead of Federer.
Slice - Federer, Murray, Nadal, Djokovic. -
Murray and Federer are close here but miles ahead of nadal and Djokovic, Djokovic is awful with it.
Drop shop - Federer, Murray, Djokovic, Nadal.
Federer has sublime drop shots and murrays are inconsistant but better than Djokovic's. Nadal's are awful.
Volleys - Federer, Murray, Nadal, Djokovic.
None of the top 4 are really bad at this imo, all equally good but i tend to see Federer/Murray doing it more.
Overhead - Nadal, Federer, Murray, Djokovic. -
Djokovic is the only bad one here, the other 3 are good and usually pretty consistant with it.
Lob - Murray, Nadal, Federer, Djokovic -
I only really see Murray/Nadal use this alot and its usually pretty effective in forcing a UE or buying some time to get back in the rally but in general i dont think any of the top 4 are paticularly bad at it.
Thats my view.
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Best (3 points) to worst (0 points):
First serve:
MFND
Second serve:
FNDM
ROS:
DMNF
FH:
FNDM
BH:
DMNF
Slice:
FMND
Dropper:
DFMN
Volleys:
FMND
Overhead:
FNMD
Lob:
MNFD
Total shotmaking talent:
Federer: 18 points
Murray: 16 points
Nadal: 13 points
Djokovic: 11 points
(remember: shotmaking is only a part of modern tennis)
First serve:
MFND
Second serve:
FNDM
ROS:
DMNF
FH:
FNDM
BH:
DMNF
Slice:
FMND
Dropper:
DFMN
Volleys:
FMND
Overhead:
FNMD
Lob:
MNFD
Total shotmaking talent:
Federer: 18 points
Murray: 16 points
Nadal: 13 points
Djokovic: 11 points
(remember: shotmaking is only a part of modern tennis)
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Def
Semi-Pro
Post lost all credibility right there, no way that Federer is the worst at the drop shot
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
Also, Djokovic has the worst 1st serve in the top 4? Really? :-|
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
Even if you compare prime forms, Federer was never better than the other 3 in hitting backhand drives.
Also, Federer in 2005-2006 barely utilized dropshots.
TTMR
Hall of Fame
Djokovic can be broken by anyone at any time, it seems, as can Murray. It's just that those two can also break opponents' serves at will as well. On the other hand, Nadal is actually quite difficult to break these days, despite the endless amounts of flak he takes for his serve (and for being born).
Federer is easily the best first and second server of the top four, even today. Nadal is second, the Murray first serve is phenomenal when it's working and useless when it's not, while Djokovic's first serve is at best reliable and never a weapon, and it can also break down. Murray's second serve is laughably bad.
kaku
Professional
Best to worst
1st Serve: Fed, Murray, Djokovic, Nadal
2nd: Fed, Djokovic, Nadal, Murray
FH: Fed, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray
BH: Djokovic, Murray, Fed, Nadal
Slice: Fed, Murray, Nadal, Djokovic
Lob: Murray, Fed, Nadal, Djokovic
Return: Djokovic, Murray, Nadal, Fed
Dropshot: Fed, Djokovic, Murray, Nadal
Volley: Fed, Murray, Nadal, Djokovic
Overhead: Fed, Nadal, Murray, Djokovic
1st Serve: Fed, Murray, Djokovic, Nadal
2nd: Fed, Djokovic, Nadal, Murray
FH: Fed, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray
BH: Djokovic, Murray, Fed, Nadal
Slice: Fed, Murray, Nadal, Djokovic
Lob: Murray, Fed, Nadal, Djokovic
Return: Djokovic, Murray, Nadal, Fed
Dropshot: Fed, Djokovic, Murray, Nadal
Volley: Fed, Murray, Nadal, Djokovic
Overhead: Fed, Nadal, Murray, Djokovic
TTMR
Hall of Fame
Prime for prime:
1st serve - Federer/Nadal/Djokovic = Murray
2nd serve - Federer/Nadal/Djokovic/Murray
FH - Federer/Nadal/Djokovic/Murray
BH - Djokovic/Murray/Nadal/Federer
Slice - Federer/Murray/Nadal/Djokovic
Lob - Nadal=Murray/Federer/Djokovic
Return - Djokovic/Murray/Nadal/Federer
Drop shot - Federer/Murray/Djokovic/Nadal
Volleys - Federer/Murray = Nadal/Djokovic
Passing shots - Nadal/Murray/Federer/Djokovic
Overhead smash- Federer/Nadal/Murray/Djokovic
Returning overhead smashes - Murray/Federer/Djokovic/Nadal
Post-prime: Nadal has the better forehand than Federer currently.
1st serve - Federer/Nadal/Djokovic = Murray
2nd serve - Federer/Nadal/Djokovic/Murray
FH - Federer/Nadal/Djokovic/Murray
BH - Djokovic/Murray/Nadal/Federer
Slice - Federer/Murray/Nadal/Djokovic
Lob - Nadal=Murray/Federer/Djokovic
Return - Djokovic/Murray/Nadal/Federer
Drop shot - Federer/Murray/Djokovic/Nadal
Volleys - Federer/Murray = Nadal/Djokovic
Passing shots - Nadal/Murray/Federer/Djokovic
Overhead smash- Federer/Nadal/Murray/Djokovic
Returning overhead smashes - Murray/Federer/Djokovic/Nadal
Post-prime: Nadal has the better forehand than Federer currently.
Nadal gives up a lot of short balls on his backhand and he doesn't really hit winners on it other than passing shots. Just because Djokovic has been the only one able to consistently find that weak backhand, doesn't mean it isn't a weakness.
President
Legend
Federer20042006
Banned
1st Serve: Nadal, though it's underrated
2nd Serve: Murray
Forehand: Federer. Seriously, how anyone can think Federer's forehand is still great, even good, anymore is beyond me. He never hits a winner with it unless it's the first ball off a serve. It's an error-machine. In all seriousness, it's been his weaker wing this season.
Backhand: Nadal. Nadal's backhand has never been better than Federer's, folks. Never has been, never will be. He can't go down the line to save his life, and never could. That's kind of important.
Slice: Djokovic
Lob: Federer
Return of Serve: Federer
Drop Shot: Nadal. Often doesn't even land in the service box.
Volleys: Federer. When he's on, obviously not...but half the time he's not. Half the time he's one of the worst volleyers in tennis.
Passing Shots: Djokovic. Players can take him out with serve-and-volley.
Overhead: Federer. Not if it's backhand, obviously, but he is the most likely to blow an overhead.
2nd Serve: Murray
Forehand: Federer. Seriously, how anyone can think Federer's forehand is still great, even good, anymore is beyond me. He never hits a winner with it unless it's the first ball off a serve. It's an error-machine. In all seriousness, it's been his weaker wing this season.
Backhand: Nadal. Nadal's backhand has never been better than Federer's, folks. Never has been, never will be. He can't go down the line to save his life, and never could. That's kind of important.
Slice: Djokovic
Lob: Federer
Return of Serve: Federer
Drop Shot: Nadal. Often doesn't even land in the service box.
Volleys: Federer. When he's on, obviously not...but half the time he's not. Half the time he's one of the worst volleyers in tennis.
Passing Shots: Djokovic. Players can take him out with serve-and-volley.
Overhead: Federer. Not if it's backhand, obviously, but he is the most likely to blow an overhead.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
Nadal's BH doesn't break down either which is probably more important than hitting it down the line, which he does more often these days.
Otherwise decent list
Funny you rate Federer's 2nd serve the worst because I rate it the best of the top 4. He places it better, hits it very aggressively under pressure, and kicks it quite high. I would rate Murray's 2nd serve the worst and it may cost him Wimbledon again. Nadal's and Djoko's are about the same in the middle of the road. Nadal's is objectively weaker but he gets away with it because he is a lefty and can avoid righty forehands easier. Djoko's is good but it can sometimes get shaky under pressure.
Net play - I agree with you and put Djoko in the bottom. If Djoko works on his transition game and net game, I think he wins 2 or 3 more Wimbledon's and USO. It is telling that he has won more AO than any other major - faster than RG and slower than USO and Wimby and that's Djoko's sweetspot - defensive to offensive baseline play.
6
6-3 6-0
Guest
Seriously? Are you comparing a 31+ yr old RFederer to all those players who are in prime? For fair comparisons, use players' prime, otherwise its biased.
And I am surprised RFederer (of 2013) isn't the worst in all those categories. He isn't even a shadow of what he was!
Federer20042006
Banned
Well, the question seems to be talking about the present.
Federer20042006
Banned
It sure seemed to break down against Darcis.
The main reason Nadal's backhand generally doesn't break down as much as Federer's is Federer stands on the baseline, thinking he's Agassi, and tries to take it on the rise. Federer's backhand stroke itself is excellent...it's his court positioning/footwork that screws up his timing. That's also one of the main reasons his forehand is so lousy this year. Still, if Federer weren't so offensive minded, he could easily be a pusher with a backhand that "doesn't break down."
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