Oh no......(2nd serve troubles)

[300Gkid]

My club pro says i have basically a high 3.5 or low 4.0 game, except for my 2nd serve :sad: , with this im definitley no higher than a 3.5. I've put countless hours in trying to learn a kick serve and have failed miserably, sometimes i can hit three or four in a row perfect kick serves, but then i wont hit another good one for 20 more. I've tried repetition but i can never seem to reproduce the motion that will give me a successful kick serve. I plan to keep trying to learn it but without it my tournament results have and will continue to suffer.

Right now, i hit a horrible 2nd serve that basically just floats over and lets gravity do its job, i can aim it ok but not fantastically and most people can run around it anyway. So what im looking for at the moment is an "OK" second serve, not something i can use as a weapon but something that the opponent won't hit for a winner 95% of the time. I figure i can use this in tournaments while i am continuing to learn a kick serve in practice and whatnot.

Thanks for taking the time to read this long-winded post

Any suggestions? ("OK" 2nd serves?)

 

[Bagumbawalla]

This is such a common problem that it is requested quite often.

Try this-- go to the top right of the page and click on the word "search".
Type in something like "second serve" or kick serve". You will get tons of good reading.

Good luck,

B

 

[Vitaly Evchenkov]

i have been working on my 2nd serve w/ kick... and recently it has been getting much better.

i haven't changed too much, and I don't always hit it just right, but I have been hitting quite a few that I like.

the search idea will help you out, but for me, the 3 main factors that I think have helped are:

1. Leg training... I have been doing a lot of squats on various machines. Sometimes I do heavy weights, but more often I do sets of 50 with medium to low weight. By the time I reach 40, my legs are BURNING and it is tough to finish. I think a good kick serve has a LOT to do with getting power from you legs and thrusting up with your legs into the ball.

2. Shoulder strength ... I had a lot of shoulder problems and it hurt my shoulder to hit a kick serve because it seems it is easier to get kick when you toss the ball at 11 o'clock which stresses my rotator cuff.
I have spent a while using LIGHT weights at the gym to work out the small muscles surrounding the shoulder. I am decently strong, but I was surprised to see how weak some of these small muscles are... So now that I have gotten more strength in my shoulder I can really put more into my serve and the kick action has increased too.

3. Toss ... in addition to changing toss location, I have recently been tossing higher which has allowed me more time to rotate my upper body and the additional coil/uncoil has definitiely added some spin on my serve.

gl! My improved serve got me a BAGEL today! I hope I stay healthy this summer because I hope to open a bakery on the court!!!!

 

[300Gkid]

well yes, i know about how to hit a kick serve, i've read basically all of those threads, what im asking for in this thread is info on how to hit a 2nd serve thats easy to learn and although isn't up to the level of a kick serve, will still not hurt me all that much

 

[Bagumbawalla]

I am concerned that your second serve is causing you pain. This is definitely not normal.

First you should consider the possibility that you have a physical problem that should be addressed before you continue.

Probably, you should not expect to get a different answer, here, than you would in a search, because the basic action of a kick second serve is pretty standard. It is based on physical laws, and there is not much room for deviation.

However, to simplify the explaination, let's assume that you are healthy and can hit a good, painless, "flat" serve.

If you can do that, the kick should not be that much of a problem.

Toss the ball (almost) exactly the same as for your "flat" serve, possibly a bit lower, a bit farther back. You need to experiment some, but since the 1st serve works for you, the change, if any, should be slight.

Now, instead of hitting through the center of the ball, as you would for a first serve, follow through, but in a direction about 45 degrees upward and to the right (if you are right handed). Do not try to force anything, make the motion a smooth, graceful arc, without hitches.

Again, the main difference from the "flat" serve is the followthrough.

Some people will suggest tossing the ball differently for different spins. This is a valid approach. I just find what I described to be simpler.

Do not try to over arch your back. Don't try to impart an extra snapping motion with your wrist. Swing the racket smoothly, without a ball, in the smoothest possible, least painful, uncomplicated service motion you can generate. This is how it should feel with the ball added.

If you continue to have problems with the second serve, after weighing all the various hints, you should consider a few lessons from a qualified instructor. A few sessions with someone who can watch you and give immediate feedback could make all the difference in the long run.

Good luck,

B

 

[es-0]

i think when he said "will still not hurt me all that much" he was refering to his game, because he didn't have a reliable kicker to use as a second, not as a physical pain.

 

[goober]

I think you should use a slice second serve until you develop a kicker.

Another option is to go 90% speed on your first serve so you get a high first serve percentage in and do two first serves. It is better than sending a creampuff over the net. Just ditch the creampuff second serve, if it goes in against any good player they will hit a winner or put you on a very defensive position. Take the double fault over the creampuff. It will help you in the end.

 

[circusmouse]

Something I find useful for serve consistency is visualizing the serve as a throwing motion. It's old advice, but useful. At the 3.5 level, a weak serve isn't a real problem, so I'd recommend developing a decent slice/topspin serve and using it on every serve in your matches until you've got it down. That will take the psychological pressure off the second serve motion.

 

[dave333]

try slice serves

 

[Grapto]

Work out more on your first serve to increase it's precentage (>75%). It can be either flat or slice spin serve. Only after then you can think about how to improve your second. --- this is what my coach said when I asked him to teach me kick serve or any useful 2nd serves.

 

[Redflea]

I think you should use a slice second serve until you develop a kicker.

Another option is to go 90% speed on your first serve so you get a high first serve percentage in and do two first serves. It is better than sending a creampuff over the net. Just ditch the creampuff second serve, if it goes in against any good player they will hit a winner or put you on a very defensive position. Take the double fault over the creampuff. It will help you in the end.

Yup. Both points are very good.

 

[andyroddick's mojo]

you need to add more spin!

First, learn the mechanics of the kick serve, even if it floats over, you need to learn the topspin.

Second, build muscle and apply more force and add more spin! this will make a deadly second serve.