Old school vs New school

[basil J]

Funny thing happened last night. I was hitting with my pro, using my revelation 200G and I thought I would do a little play test. I had my ncode 6.1's in my bag(18 x20) and he was using a flexpoint radical. We rotated the three frames berween the two of us for an hour and a half.
Observations:
Revelation: 100% graphite has an unbeatable feel. Though the lowest powered frame , by far, it had the smallest sweet spot, yet best flex and feel. Once you find your range with this stick, the sensation is excellent. Shots are heavy and control is excellent. Volleys are pinpoint.
Ncode 6.1: IMO, the best post original prostaff that I have ever tried. This frame has lots of controllable power, is solid and a spin monster. Serves are high powered and accurate. Though mine weighs in at 12.2 oz strung, for some reason this frame can get heavy after a long set. Flex is rated close to the Revelation, but due to a wider beam, plays stiffer. Great for pounding baseline rallies. nowhere near the feel of the graphite at the net.
Head FP radical: This frame felt like a toy compared to the other two frames. Light, with minimal feel. I could feed balls to students with this, but I could never use it in a match. Too whippy.
Bottom line: 100% graphite was hands down the most comfortable frame of the three by a landslide. My pro even offered to buy my revelation. He loved it! The only area that the revealtion was way off was serving, Due to being such a low powered frame, the big heaters were a lot harder to come by. I also noticed that when using the revelation, I had to really concentrate on solid follow through and excellent preperation, where as with the other two, I could get away with being late or sub par foot work a lot more.
I think that racquet companies are missing the boat to some extent by not offering a 100% graphite frame in all of the players lines. I am slowly leaning towards using my revelation on a full time basis as I get more accustomed to it. I was a long time 200G MW fan, but the revelation plays even better that the MW. It is more comfortable and outstanding at volleys and with groundies. Anyone else want to chime in on older frame technology vs newer technology? I am 45, so I am curious as to what the young guns find when they hit with older frames.

 

[Duzza]

Hey mate, I'm 16 and if you were talking about the Flexpoint MP non Tour, i own this racquet and am in the process of selling it. When I was playing around with racquets, I narrowed it down to the 18*20 Ncode and Flexpoint Radical. I chose the radical as at the time i thought a light whippy racquet would be fine. Boy I was wrong. Anyways, speeding up to now, I've bought a PC600 and 2 POG MP's just from the opinions on these boards and haven't looked back. Wow, everything you could ask from a tennis racquet.

So to answer you're question I LOVE old racquets compared to new one's now. It's just incomparable.

 

[Duzza]

Hey mate, I'm 16 and if you were talking about the Flexpoint MP non Tour, i own this racquet and am in the process of selling it. When I was playing around with racquets, I narrowed it down to the 18*20 Ncode and Flexpoint Radical. I chose the radical as at the time i thought a light whippy racquet would be fine. Boy I was wrong. Anyways, speeding up to now, I've bought a PC600 and 2 POG MP's just from the opinions on these boards and haven't looked back. Wow, everything you could ask from a tennis racquet.

So to answer you're question I LOVE old racquets compared to new one's now. It's just incomparable.

 

[basil J]

That's interesting. What is it about the older frames that you like better?

 

[mislav]

Well, I too prefer the old school racquets, but I find that my n6.1 (the same one you're using, Basil) has a lot of that feel with it. Weight, balance and to me that nCode material feels a bit graphity. It's good enough for me!

I don't like the equal balance, the lightness and the hollow feel of some of the new racquets. However, there are many others that are just great. For example, of the new frames, I find O3 Tour to be an excellent newcomer (if we can still call it that).

 

[basil J]

I too used an 03 tour for about 6 months and enjoyed using it except for serving. I could never get the heat going with that frame. Now that I think of it, the 03 tour kind of does have a nice flexy graphite feel to it, however it was very damp and I had better results using the ncode 6.1.

 

[max]

I'm not sure there really is a "new school" other than what manufacturers tell us. . . the whole "lighter is better" thing came out of Wilson marketing.

 

[basil J]

True, but the materials used have changed a bit over the last 10 years as well. Everything seems to be geared towards lighter, stiffer and more power.
Unfortunately, a lot of these frames lack feel and have that hollow feel that I have found a lot of the newer frames have..

 

[NoBadMojo]

As I am a veteran player, I am wondering why you arent mentioning any old school racquets even though it is the subject of this thread ;O...the Revelation 200g isnt an old school racquet...wood is, fiberglass frames are, fiberglass/graphite composite frames are...everythng else since has been pretty much graphite with some 'enhancements' and are new school frames IMO.
BTW when they say a racquet is 100% graphite what that means is that 100% of the fibers being used are graphte fibers....the racquet itself could actually contan only 20% graphite and 80% binders, fillers, and resins, etc. Some companies use more graphite fibers in the layups like Fischer and Volkl and thats why they have such a sweet solid feel, and other companies like Head and Wilson and Babolat use much less and that's why most of ther stuff feels so cheesy..kinda like plastic rather than graphite eh?......IMO

 

[basil J]

I guess what I mean by old school is a frame that was released in the late 80' or 90's. I wasn't playing prior to the 90's so I have no reference to wood or aluminum frames. By today's standards (weight, head size and composition) the 200G revelation is an older school type of frame vs a Head flex point, Babolat or one of the many new thicker beamed stiif frames available today. IMO the newer frames seem to have a lot more "technology" built into them vs a standard graphite players frame from the 90's. I could be wrong, but there seems to be a lot more bells and whistles today, than from 10 years ago.

 

[stevewcosta]

I think 80s graphite is "old school" if that denotes an era of racquet quality, substance (non-waif), feel and controlled power. Most of the racquets I played with between '82 - '89 had it all - thin, box beams >=95 sq. in. with great control, normal patterns (16X18 or 19) and adequate power. There aren't many of these around anymore (post 1990). Most current racquets lack substance and are mostly flimsy fatties with horrible feel. So, there is a significant difference between 80s graphite and current graphite frames.

 

[stevewcosta]

By the way, the 90's kicked off the "bells & whistles" era of rac. manuf., the beginning of rac. decline IMO.

 

[anirut]

Old school ... hmm ... they're hard to find now. That's why I ended up with my Redondo. Believe me, it brings back that 80's feel.

BTW, I just added a little lead (3 grams total) to 4 & 8 and the racket is now very nice, stable and solid-hitting. My stick's about 13 pts HL.

 

[psp2]

old school: dunlop max 200g. there's not a racquet in the world that can match the feel of this one. small headsize (sweetspot), awesome vibration dampening; tough to generate massive spin; really flexible. on a good day, i can generate nice pops on the serves and paint the T's.

new school: wilson npro open x (leaded up to 12.2 oz). this is my main doubles racquet. huge spin (18g hybrid). nice crisp volleys. kick serves well.

 

[anirut]

With regrads to this old school topic, I just checked the Avery rackets. Wow ... is old school style, feel and material is making a come back or what?

I think racket companies have just realized the good things of the past. They probably have just realized that they can only fool some people some of the time but not all people all the time.

Welcome back, old school ...

 

[louis netman]

BTW when they say a racquet is 100% graphite what that means is that 100% of the fibers being used are graphte fibers....the racquet itself could actually contan only 20% graphite and 80% binders, fillers, and resins, etc. Some companies use more graphite fibers in the layups like Fischer and Volkl and thats why they have such a sweet solid feel, and other companies like Head and Wilson and Babolat use much less and that's why most of ther stuff feels so cheesy..kinda like plastic rather than graphite eh?......IMO

This is an excellent point and example, NBMJ, and one that I don't believe has been explained as concisely in the past. I started a post awhile back, something to the effect of, ' "Modern feel:" an excuse for the use of cheaper materials... ' that sort of touched on this, but your brief expalnation gets the point across well. "Old school" rackets (as referred to by this poster) are frames which had a higher percentage of graphite fibers (higher percentage of "quality" materials/less binders, resins, plastic, etc) in the composition of the frame. This is why, for the life of me, I can NOT get the feel I desire from newer frames, and Lord knows I've done my share of experimentation...

 

[Champion]

Im 15 and I hate all this new technology that they put in racquets now a days. I play with the Pc600 mainly and on off days I use my old premier tours but yes nothing can beat the feel of an old pure graphite racquet. Oh and I hit with a friends old revalation and I must say, damn that racquet is one peice of work.

 

[emcee]

Graphite just might be the last good technology racquet companies came up with. All the pros switched to it while they were in the primes of their careers. Then came Titanium, Power Holes and its thousand variations (Prince Suspension, Volkl Catapult, etc), Hammers (worst racquets ever), Triple Threat (which was basically just lead tape), and all that junk. Sure a few pros might use racquets with no grommets and huge holes, but back in the day, EVERYONE switched to graphite. Even Mac, who then later complained about powerful racquets ruining the game.

 

[stevewcosta]

Current Volkl frames still don't feel as good as just about any 80's graphite frame. Period. It's all about profitability now. Only the 6.0 85 feels decent but it's the size of a g-damn badminton rac. Everything now feels like petrified dog crap. Biggest mistake I made (re: tennis racs, of course) was ditching my R22s long ago. DAMN!

 

[stevewcosta]

With regrads to this old school topic, I just checked the Avery rackets. Wow ... is old school style, feel and material is making a come back or what?

I think racket companies have just realized the good things of the past. They probably have just realized that they can only fool some people some of the time but not all people all the time.

Welcome back, old school ...

Don't celebrate too soon. I'm sure Avery racquets are great ... TO POOP ON!!! - Triumph

 

[NoBadMojo]

This is an excellent point and example, NBMJ, and one that I don't believe has been explained as concisely in the past. I started a post awhile back, something to the effect of, ' "Modern feel:" an excuse for the use of cheaper materials... ' that sort of touched on this, but your brief expalnation gets the point across well. "Old school" rackets (as referred to by this poster) are frames which had a higher percentage of graphite fibers (higher percentage of "quality" materials/less binders, resins, plastic, etc) in the composition of the frame. This is why, for the life of me, I can NOT get the feel I desire from newer frames, and Lord knows I've done my share of experimentation...

ha netman! i still have one of the results if your experimentation somewhere around here....you are indeed a most prolific experimenter..are you playing with one main frame these days?

 

[Kaptain Karl]

Piggy-backing on NBMJ's remark: I'm dreading the day I read a post on here which is also something about "Old School -vs- New" ... something like this:

Zeke: Man, I miss the feel of those Old School Frames.

Deke: Yeah! Here is is June of 2016.... They just don't make 'em like they did back in August of last year.

Zeke: Word!
___________

"If I had only known..." the MatchMate company (Northridge CA) was going to fold ... and rackets were not really going to get any better ... I'd have purchased a dozen and simply kept them in storage until I wore out another one. (The company introduced the "MatchMate Graphite" in the late '70s or early '80s. Sometime about the late '80s ... they were gone.) ::sigh::

- KK

 

[mislav]

I first played with a wooden racquet and then soon moved to an aluminum model with a almost completely round head. I remember what they felt like and I must say I played well with both of those.

Then I picked up a Head model from the early eighties - Head Comfort Pro. It had 18x20, twaron, 90ish headsize and was heavy by today's standards. I adored that racquet and this is what I had in mind when I said Old School.

Yep, I know woodies came first, but the early eighties is the golden era of tennis racquets to me.

 

[NoBadMojo]

I think racquets have gotten better...much better (by the better manufacturers anyway)
-Tolerances of the old graphite frames were atrocious <in general> compared to the better companies of today
-Old graphite frames fatigued much quicker than new ones made by the better manufacturers..some were even prone to warping and cracking and just plain breaking
-Layups of today are much more tweaked and efficient than layups of old by the better companies..far more efficient use of weight
-etc..

 

[newnuse]

I used a Volkl C10 Pro Tour for about a year and was very happy with the feel of it. I took out my PS 6.0 85 and was amazed how good it felt. Now, when I use my C10, it feels like crap. Bad mistake on my part. I need to find another racket now that feels similar to the PS 6.0 85.

Any suggestions?

 

[basil J]

KK & NBMJ I hear where you are coming from, and maybe I should have used a different title to the post. I never played with any racquets made before 1990, so to me, that is old school, to you lifers, maybe wood is old school, I respect your positions on this. I played tonight and discussed this topic with a group of guys at the club. (ages 35-55)Their consencus was that newer frames were lighter, more powerful and easier to use than the older frames of the past. They were in agreement that the older classics(PS 6.0, PC 600) type of players frames were excellent, but too demanding compared to today's frames, and none of them would ever go back to using them. (these guys were all 4.0+ players). Interesting that I picked up the game late in life and gravitate to the older sticks..

 

[NoBadMojo]

KK & NBMJ I hear where you are coming from, and maybe I should have used a different title to the post. I never played with any racquets made before 1990, so to me, that is old school, to you lifers, maybe wood is old school, I respect your positions on this. I played tonight and discussed this topic with a group of guys at the club. (ages 35-55)Their consencus was that newer frames were lighter, more powerful and easier to use than the older frames of the past. They were in agreement that the older classics(PS 6.0, PC 600) type of players frames were excellent, but too demanding compared to today's frames, and none of them would ever go back to using them. (these guys were all 4.0+ players). Interesting that I picked up the game late in life and gravitate to the older sticks..

your title is fine i think as 'old school' is a relative term and old farts like karl and me (speaking for Karl here) are in the way back machine...i was mostly just messin' w. you. I just posted something in the pro section <i think> regarding how racquets evolved if you are interested in checking it out.

you were given most excellent advise at your club and very indicative of tennis and what gear is best for the game as it is now..i dont think this forum is an acurate representation of the real world in some cases

 

[jonolau]

Piggy-backing on NBMJ's remark: I'm dreading the day I read a post on here which is also something about "Old School -vs- New" ... something like this:

Zeke: Man, I miss the feel of those Old School Frames.

Deke: Yeah! Here is is June of 2016.... They just don't make 'em like they did back in August of last year.

Zeke: Word!
___________

"If I had only known..." the MatchMate company (Northridge CA) was going to fold ... and rackets were not really going to get any better ... I'd have purchased a dozen and simply kept them in storage until I wore out another one. (The company introduced the "MatchMate Graphite" in the late '70s or early '80s. Sometime about the late '80s ... they were gone.) ::sigh::

- KK

KK,

This really cracked me up! Sure you weren't a playwright in another life?

JL

 

[BreakPoint]

I used a Volkl C10 Pro Tour for about a year and was very happy with the feel of it. I took out my PS 6.0 85 and was amazed how good it felt. Now, when I use my C10, it feels like crap. Bad mistake on my part. I need to find another racket now that feels similar to the PS 6.0 85.

Any suggestions?

Why not just keep using your PS 6.0 85? You can still buy more of them here at TW. Unfortunately, there really aren't too many new racquets out there that feel like the PS 6.0 85. If you want a bigger head, you can give the PS 6.0 95 a try, although it will swing lighter.

 

[Kaptain Karl]

I think racquets have gotten better...much better (by the better manufacturers anyway)
-Tolerances of the old graphite frames were atrocious <in general> compared to the better companies of today
-Old graphite frames fatigued much quicker than new ones made by the better manufacturers..some were even prone to warping and cracking and just plain breaking
-Layups of today are much more tweaked and efficient than layups of old by the better companies..far more efficient use of weight
-etc..

Good argument, NBMJ. (I do remember my old MatchMates would just suddenly snap -- usually one of the throat forks. Once (if I correctly recall) at the top of the hoop. No warning, no degradation of feel or solidity. Just *snap*.

(Man, I must be an old fart. I'm longing for "the good ol' days...!")

- KK

 

[louis netman]

ha netman! i still have one of the results if your experimentation somewhere around here....you are indeed a most prolific experimenter..are you playing with one main frame these days?

Hey NBMJ! My experimentation results are probably spread all over the place by now. I'm currently injured :-( , spending my usual court time trying to locate and stockpile 2 favorites: your once beloved T10 MP (Gen I), and PR 660...

 

[NoBadMojo]

Hey NBMJ! My experimentation results are probably spread all over the place by now. I'm currently injured :-( , spending my usual court time trying to locate and stockpile 2 favorites: your once beloved T10 MP (Gen I), and PR 660...

full circle......let me know if you need more Gen1's...I've 4 of these left..one is a prototype..black and yellow with no graphics. but it's hard to completely leave your old lover....

 

[NoBadMojo]

Good argument, NBMJ. (I do remember my old MatchMates would just suddenly snap -- usually one of the throat forks. Once (if I correctly recall) at the top of the hoop. No warning, no degradation of feel or solidity. Just *snap*.

(Man, I must be an old fart. I'm longing for "the good ol' days...!")

- KK

Thanks Karl...i think the worst frames I have ever seen were those Dunlops with the foam core....was it the 200g? Those things could snap at any moment..guys were literally snapping the heads on overheads, they would warp in the stringing machines, and they didnt even last as long as wooden frames....guys were getting maybe 3 stringjobs out of them (if that)...they were cheap though as i recall

 

[basil J]

I have been now playing alternative matches between the revealtion 200G and the ncode for about a month now and I have come to a surprising conclusion. The ncode 6.1 is simply an easier racquet to play consistant tennis with. I think you have to be at least 4.5+to really appreciate the 200G revelation, and I am just not there yet. I love the feel & comfort, but I hit way too many short balls with this frame, and I can really punish the ball with the ncode. I gave one of my revelations to my teaching pro and he has been playing monster tennis with it, but he even says, that your form and concentration need to be at high level to fully appreciate this frame. He is even leaning towards a 6.1 18 x 20 for match play now. I am keeping one for the occassional hit, and will use it to help hone my strokes occassionally in practice, but for now, I am sticking with the ncode 6.1 18 x20. This is probably the best frame I have used to date.( and I have tried way too many!) I was a diehard 200G guy for 6 years, but I think an era has ended.

 

[Ronaldo]

Suspect you must completely play with no doubts and no hesitation, no regrets and get the racquet moving early and through your hitting zone when using that Rev 200G. Still have doubts when using any Prestige mid and pay a huge price. Used an nCode 6.1 95 and while impressed, needed more mass.

 

[basil J]

No doubt that the revelation is one of the all time best players frames that I ever tried. If I played 5 days a week, it would undoubtedly be my frame of choice. Two times per week and the ncode 6.1 is all I can handle. With a bum shoulder on top of that, I am happy that I can maintain a respectable level of play right now with the ncode. I may feel different after surgery in the fall, but for now, I have to place comfort first. If I could serve worth a damn with the 03 tour, I would still be using that frame.