Overcoming The Dreaded Double Fault Disease

[thebuffman]

Anybody else out there suffer from the dreaded double fault disease? This thing PLAGUES me! Once I get infected during a match, I pretty much suffer in agony until the engagement is over.

Last night I played a guy who has beaten me 4 out of 4 matches. My flat serve, when i landed it, either aced or only returned approx 20% of the time, but double faults is what did me in. 20+ double faults later i was down a set having lost 7-6 and i was in the middle of the 2nd set tie breaker up 6-3 and serving. A few more double faults gave him the advantage he needed to take the set and the match. Words could not express my grief.

Yeah, I could have started dinking in my 2nd serve but how would I ever get better. How would I ever come to rely on my developing kick and slice serve that I have been working so hard on? After all, the previous outing allowed me to display my 2nd serve wonderfully. How it all fell apart so fast, I have no idea.

So here is what I decided to do. Tonight I had another match except this was with a guy who I easily handled in the past. I decided that no matter what happened, I would not serve flat. Every serve would be either spin or slice, and no dinks. What a challenge! If this dude beat me, I would lose my spot on our tennis ladder. But I figure I have to learn how to rely on my 2nd serve under pressure more than I desire to win. At some point he was learning how to wait on the ball to fall in his strike zone and started ripping it shoulder high for cross court winners. Man was it hard to suck it up and continue feed him spin. In the end I recorded 8-9 double faults after 3 sets and took the match 7-5 4-6 6-4 never having hit one flat serve. This is a first time ever.

What I learned in this experiment concerning the second serve was this: Never take pace off of the 2nd serve. The faster you swing the racquet the higher your percentage of putting the ball in play. The only thing I would modify to ensure I got the ball in play was to come up & OVER the ball more. Coming over the ball a little more might have lessened the height of the ball but the spin on the ball would sometimes still give my opponent trouble.

I am eager to hear feedback on my experiment.

 

[SirGounder]

I like your style. I too can become plagued by the disease. My confidence starts to wane and I just lose it. My refusal to dink in a serve means I lose. I've found that I just need to suck it up and go for it.

 

[Blake0]

Spin is important on serves. Slowing down gives you less spin, making it harder to go in unless you dink. If you're hitting a lot into the net, spin the ball but aim higher above the net. If a lot are going long, then focus on getting more spin. If it's just random, slow down and get to the basics. I like to throw in aggressive second serves for firsts when I'm off.

 

[mikeler]

I went through a month or more this year where my 2nd serve was awful. What worked for me was making sure I lifted my head to look where the ball toss is going. So head up, before you even toss. The 2nd thing was to slow down my serve motion and make sure I get the toss very close to the same spot repeatedly. Good luck.

 

[charliefedererer]

A high first serve percentage and a great second serve percentage is achievable if you have a service motion that allows you to reproduce it again and again.

Do you feel you have a great ritual and similar start to both your first and second serves?
Do you feel you can always toss the ball exactly where you want to?
Do you continue to extend your tossing arm up and keep it high until you actually begin your leg pushoff and start your swing?
Do you maintain great balance and tempo throughout your service motions?
Do have a great shoulder-over-shoulder cartwheel motion to impart topsin even to your first serve?
Do you point your racquet slightly off to the right in your racquet drop so that the racquet path back up will add top and side spin even to your first serve?

 

[darthpwner]

Practice hitting your spin serve until it becomes 2nd nature.

 

[larry10s]

So here is what I decided to do. Tonight I had another match except this was with a guy who I easily handled in the past. I decided that no matter what happened, I would not serve flat. Every serve would be either spin or slice, and no dinks. What a challenge! If this dude beat me, I would lose my spot on our tennis ladder. But I figure I have to learn how to rely on my 2nd serve under pressure more than I desire to win. At some point he was learning how to wait on the ball to fall in his strike zone and started ripping it shoulder high for cross court winners. Man was it hard to suck it up and continue feed him spin. In the end I recorded 8-9 double faults after 3 sets and took the match 7-5 4-6 6-4 never having hit one flat serve. This is a first time ever.

What I learned in this experiment concerning the second serve was this: Never take pace off of the 2nd serve. The faster you swing the racquet the higher your percentage of putting the ball in play. The only thing I would modify to ensure I got the ball in play was to come up & OVER the ball more. Coming over the ball a little more might have lessened the height of the ball but the spin on the ball would sometimes still give my opponent trouble.

I am eager to hear feedback on my experiment.

you solved your own problem . you dont need us
play more matches the same way. forget about your flat serve for awhile.ok maye at 40 -0 you can try one.as you gain confidence in your "second" serve and learn to vary the pace spin and placement you will find it an effective first serve as you are finding out. as you gai confidence that you can always get your second serve in ie no more dreaded double faults you can bomb away within reason with your flat serve.when you see the flat one is off and you are missing a bunch go back to 2nd serve 1st.

 

[Power Player]

All I do right now is practice slice serves. I slice to different parts of the box to keep it unpredictable. This has helped me develop a better service game, and I still can get aces due to placement and not raw power like before.

 

[LeeD]

As a full sized adult male of the species, DO NOT hit sliced second serves.
Instead, hit topspin second serves! You toss the ball over your head, but into the court.
A slice sidespin second serve is for girls and beginner guys. It bounces into the opponent's strike zone, only bounces one direction, and is easy to return for anyone who has a semblance of a tennis game. Use it OCCASIONALLY as a surprise, low bouncing second serve, but that's all.
Every male good tennis player hits a topspin or a top/slice, or a kick/twist second serve 90% of the time.
We already told you to swing MUCH faster on second serve attempts, and you might consider PRACTICING your second serves too.

 

[Power Player]

That's wierd because my slice serve stays low and does not bounce into the strike zone. I was also taught this serve by a former world ranked player. I very well could be adding topspin to it, but it is a very effective serve for me regardless.

 

[LeeD]

Just where do you like to hit your groundies?
Me, I like them around waist level.
That's how high a slice serve bounces.
A topspin serve usually bounces to my mid chest to lower shoulders, kinda high for a normal groundie stroke.
A good twist bounces about a foot over my head, and I'm 5'11" tall.
A topspin or twist can be hit with varying bounce directions. A slice only bounces one way.
If you're a 3.5 playing another the same, your second serve don't matter, just get it in.
If you're better, it DOES matter.

 

[Power Player]

My slice serve stays lower then that. It's what I have been trying to say. I'm not an idiot, I know where an opponent's strike zone is.

 

[LeeD]

Problem with the low slice serve is low percentage and slow speeds!
You have to aim close to the net, the ball is always slow, and you don't swing out fully fast to hit this serve. Promotes double faults.
NO pro mens player uses a low skidding sidespin second serve....for the above and other reasons.
However, if you opponent cannot return this low skidder, by all means do it over and over. The basic tenet in tennis is to take your opponent out of his comfort zone.

 

[athiker]

I heard one drill that sounded interesting. Play a whole set or two with a buddy allowing only 1 serve instead of 2. It gives you that 2nd serve pressure on every point instead of just when you miss your first serve.

I admire you dedication to your 2nd serve but I adjust my serve all the time depending on who I'm playing and how my serving is going that day. If I can out rally them and am having a tough serving day I have no problem easing a serve in. If they can out rally me then I'm going to keep going for tougher serves even if I'm not having a great serving day.

I worked on a kick serve again last night by myself before meeting a buddy for a couple sets. Brutal. I was knocking balls into the next court (not in a good way) trying to accelerate the racquet head. Once in a great while I'll produce something that looks like a decent kick serve. The % is not remotely close enough to incorporate into my game as a 2nd serve though.

I don't typically have double fault issues. When I have 1 or 2 its usually late and I immediately tell myself "more legs". I've just gotten tired and started arming the ball so I just have to rejuvenate my mental focus on form and legs. My 2nd serve is a slower more topspin version of my first, I think a bit more ball throwing motion for my 2nd than my 1st, and a slice, again with more topspin than my 1st serve slice to give more margin for error.

 

[Power Player]

Problem with the low slice serve is low percentage and slow speeds!
You have to aim close to the net, the ball is always slow, and you don't swing out fully fast to hit this serve. Promotes double faults.
NO pro mens player uses a low skidding sidespin second serve....for the above and other reasons.
However, if you opponent cannot return this low skidder, by all means do it over and over. The basic tenet in tennis is to take your opponent out of his comfort zone.

Yeah, I can get the ball to with enough pace to hit the back fence, but it is not as high as a flat serve.

BUT, the consistency and placement is there for me. I have yet to play a pro, just 4's to 5.5s, so I don't over think it.

 

[LeeD]

Unless you have a severe technique issue, you can hit a normal topspin second serve to bounce against the backboard about chest high almost every time...AND the bounce at baseline is upper chest high, AND, you swing out fully as fast as you can...AND, it's the choice of second serve for almost every male pro tennis player.
Now if you don't care for any of the above, then by all all means, use whatever spin you choose.
If you peruse the threads on this forum, there are tons of people asking for advice on how to handle high balls, high bouncing serves.
Quite a few less questions on handling low bouncing serves.

 

[thebuffman]

Unless you have a severe technique issue, you can hit a normal topspin second serve to bounce against the backboard about chest high almost every time...AND the bounce at baseline is upper chest high, AND, you swing out fully as fast as you can...AND, it's the choice of second serve for almost every male pro tennis player.
Now if you don't care for any of the above, then by all all means, use whatever spin you choose.
If you peruse the threads on this forum, there are tons of people asking for advice on how to handle high balls, high bouncing serves.
Quite a few less questions on handling low bouncing serves.

i must agree with you leed that a nice high bouncing top spin serve hardly ever returns hard at my level of play. frustratingly though they were not all high bouncing. as a matter of fact i won the match on a pathetic ace. i had plenty of spin but i came up the back and over the ball pretty emphatically causing the ball to dive waaaaay early. it hit the outside edge of the middle line about 3-4 feet past the net. my opponent was standing back too far to move up and hit it. i felt so cheap to win with that one LOL, but oh well.

anyway because of the effectiveness i've seen with a nicely hit top-spin serve, i decided to keep perfecting it. i also hit a topspin-slice serve (where i hit the ball more at 2o'oclock). this ball also has nice affect but i never know what the ball is going to do. sometimes it actually kicks up on the receiver while other times it will skid away from them for an ace (weird ). i hardly ever hit an actual "slice" serve where the contact point is between 3&4 o'clock. it just seem to hard to control.

in my experimentation, the best 2nd server was definitely the top-spin to the backhand when serving from the ad-court. i only wish i could consistently hit that same shot and place it to the corner every time. i even was able to move into the court and volley the return away or smash it. that is a difficult ball for people to deal with especially those at the 3-3.5 level.

 

[LeeD]

More serve practice?
Before I ever got close to the 4.5 levels, I could hit both first and second serves within 2' of the direction I wanted to hit.
Now, 35 years later, and with less than once every 3 months practice, I can still hit it about the same.

 

[thebuffman]

this is my new goal! wow!

 

[thebuffman]

Conceptual Question

if when hitting a topspin/twist/kick serve all we are doing is brushing up on the ball, how on earth are these pros hitting 100+ mph serves? my best kicks are no where near fast. when i rip a good one, i literally hear the wind rush as a stroke the ball barely hitting it. on my best hit spin serve, the ball bounces at least 6' high but does not have enough pace to reach the back fence on one bounce.

conceptually are the pros actually more through the ball than just a brush but less through the ball than a flat hit?? is it 50/50 brush and hitting through? as opposed to 90/10 brush and hitting through?

 

[xFullCourtTenniSx]

Play sets where you only get one serve. That way, you know how much you can go for on your second serve, and you get over the fear of hitting second serves. You also learn how to set up points with the second serve.

Big key though, don't slow down the swing. Just put more spin on it if it goes long, and more height if it goes into the net.

 

[Cindysphinx]

OP, I like your experiment.

When I was pretty new to tennis (3.0), I served like everyone else: Hit first serve as hard as I could, push/dink in the second serve. I didn't DF much, but it wasn't pretty.

Then I started learning a true second serve (a slice, I doubt I'll ever be able to hit a kicker). Trouble was, I lacked confidence in it, especially under pressure. What got me over the hump was using the second serve 100% of the time. I would use it all the time in practice matches and eventually in USTA matches.

Nowadays, I don't really worry about hitting a flat first serve. The reason is that my serve speed isn't going to ace people, and most women my level have seen plenty of flat serves and are proficient at blocking them back or attacking them or slicing them.

What seems to bother people is a lot of spin, so that's what I do. First serve is a topspin slice, aimed wherever I think it will do the most good. Second serve is more slice. There are some opponents who will go the entire match unable to figure out how to return those serves. So why bother with a flat first serve?

But if they start crowding the service line to cut off the angles, then I will try to hit a hard flat one right at them. It doesn't have to be all that fast to jam them if they are standing too close.

 

[LeeD]

Buffman.... think about it.
Most of the men's pro tour players can hit 135+ flat first serves.
So when they hit tops/kicks, they drop 40 mph in ball speed. When they go for SAFE second twists/tops, they drop the ball speed even more, down to around 80mph, for higher net clearance and safety.
In my debilitated state of old age, I still hit flat firsts around 110 or so's.
So my fast topspin first serves poke in at around 90mph.
My SAFE twist serves, used as second serves, might barely wander in around 65 mph.
My hard first twist serves usually +15 that.
My safe second topspin serves around 75 mph.
You always lose ball speed whenever you add spin, and twist spins lose more ball speed than topspins.
Pure slices are actually the slowest, as they can't be hit hard needing net clearance without the topspin component.