Pro String top cross tying off - could this cause any potential damage?

[cwfl]

Hi all, hope I am describing my situation well enough (sorry for wall of texts) but happy to elaborate further anywhere

So first off, I have got a Pro Stringer which many of you may know, needs to rest against the racket frame to apply tension

Which brings us to my top cross tying off situation. I’ve so far favoured the [Yonex?] method of using starting clamp to anchor the top cross, before coming back to tying that off at the end

From what I’ve watched from footages, with a “more conventional” tensioner (where you have some clearance between the tensioner and the grommet hole) with the [Yonex method], you can just leave the starting clamp on, apply tension via the bit of the string dangling out from the end of the starting clamp, before removing the starting clamp for the tie-off

Now because of the need for the Pro Stringer to directly lean against the outside of grommet for tension, I assume it’s impossible to leave the starting clamp on (or is there something I’m missing)? which brings me to wonder whether what I’m doing would/would not work?

(I’m mainly wondering from the perspective of safety + potential string damage, as I would expect this is probably not “ideal”. However if this does seriously risk severe loss of tension I’d be happy to abandon ship!)

What I’m doing:
1. Re-applying flying clamp (a) between 1st and 2nd crosses (to limit “pop” in step 2, see below) AND (b) between 2rd and 3rd crosses

2. Remove starting clamp from 1st cross grommet (at which point there will be a small “pop” from the top cross shooting onwards as the starting clamp’s hold is gone)

3. remove flying clamp (a) but leave (b) on, grab first cross with Pro Stringer and apply tension @10% (simulate knot feature)

4. Tie off first cross with ending knot

Any advice/suggestion would be much welcomed! Thanks in advance

 

[Irvin]

The easy solution is to use a starting knot and not a starting clamp to secure the top cross if you’re using the Pro Stringer for tensioning. Or you could make a spacer that fits over the starting clamp and allows you to tension the string with the starting clamp in place. I would not remove a starting clamp from a string while that clamp was holding tension on the string. That pop you hear is the string breaking loose from the starting clamp transferring the string load to the flying clamp.

 

[cwfl]

The easy solution is to use a starting knot and not a starting clamp to secure the top cross if you’re using the Pro Stringer for tensioning. Or you could make a spacer that fits over the starting clamp and allows you to tension the string with the starting clamp in place. I would not remove a starting clamp from a string while that clamp was holding tension on the string. That pop you hear is the string breaking loose from the starting clamp transferring the string load to the flying clamp.

Thanks Irvin. Indeed starting knot would be an obviously solution but just brainstorming whether there could be ways to work around and keep the Yonex method alive with PS.

If I am understanding correctly, you are suggesting the below order might work? (conscious you don't have the PS so I obviously will have to experiment myself)
(stringer) - (spacer) - (starting clamp) - (frame/1st cross grommet)

 

[Irvin]

You could also use a one piece method that does not require starting clamp.

 

[Jerry Seinfeld]

I can make this very simple for you. To start crosses using two strings, follow this process.
1. Pre-lace top 3 mains
2. Tie off first cross
3. Pull tension on cross string number 2. This will apply tension on two strings with one pull. (Crosses 1 and 2)
4. Clamp off on strings 1 & 2 and then keep going weaving 1 ahead.

Note: Many falsely believe that this is an inferior way to start crosses with flying clamps. It is viewed as improper because USRSA suggests other methods. In this case USRSA is not correct. By using this method your top cross will be installed at a higher tension than using a starting clamp. Anyone can test this, measure and see for themselves this is a fact. (Re: More tension is lost tying off than with tensioning top 2 strings with a single pull). This is the simplest way to start and it produces results that are technically closer to reference tension than the starting clamp method.
(Note 2: Tensioning two strings with one pull can not be used with subsequent crosses. It does not work. Not even close. Starting is the only context where it works with cross strings).

 

[Steve Huff]

Another way you can continue to use a starting clamp would be like this: 1) pre-weave crosses 1 & 2 with enough string left out at the start to tension and tie off. 2) clamp the 1 cross at the end of that cross on the inside of the frame (where it crosses over to the 2nd cross). 3) Pull tension on the 2nd cross, 4) pull tension on the 3 cross. 5) go back and pull tension on the 1st cross and tie off. Finish from there.

 

[cwfl]

I can make this very simple for you. To start crosses using two strings, follow this process.
1. Pre-lace top 3 mains
2. Tie off first cross
3. Pull tension on cross string number 2. This will apply tension on two strings with one pull. (Crosses 1 and 2)
4. Clamp off on strings 1 & 2 and then keep going weaving 1 ahead.

Note: Many falsely believe that this is an inferior way to start crosses with flying clamps. It is viewed as improper because USRSA suggests other methods. In this case USRSA is not correct. By using this method your top cross will be installed at a higher tension than using a starting clamp. Anyone can test this, measure and see for themselves this is a fact. (Re: More tension is lost tying off than with tensioning top 2 strings with a single pull). This is the simplest way to start and it produces results that are technically closer to reference tension than the starting clamp method.
(Note 2: Tensioning two strings with one pull can not be used with subsequent crosses. It does not work. Not even close. Starting is the only context where it works with cross strings).

I am way too new a stringer so I'm probably talking nonsense. But does what you describe sound like basically doing the starting knot method but with an end knot instead?

 

[cwfl]

Another way you can continue to use a starting clamp would be like this: 1) pre-weave crosses 1 & 2 with enough string left out at the start to tension and tie off. 2) clamp the 1 cross at the end of that cross on the inside of the frame (where it crosses over to the 2nd cross). 3) Pull tension on the 2nd cross, 4) pull tension on the 3 cross. 5) go back and pull tension on the 1st cross and tie off. Finish from there.

Interesting. Assuming with this, there ideally should be some padding between the starting clamp and inside of frame to avoid damage?

 

[Irvin]

Another way you can continue to use a starting clamp would be like this: 1) pre-weave crosses 1 & 2 with enough string left out at the start to tension and tie off. 2) clamp the 1 cross at the end of that cross on the inside of the frame (where it crosses over to the 2nd cross). 3) Pull tension on the 2nd cross, 4) pull tension on the 3 cross. 5) go back and pull tension on the 1st cross and tie off. Finish from there.

Using flying clamps which is what @cwfl has you can not clamp the 1st and 2nd crosses together and the 2nd and 3rd at the same time unless you have 3 flying clamps. Using this method one of the clamps will be a good distance from the frame because you can’t have 2 clamps on the 2nd string next to the frame at the same time.

I thought of something similar putting a clamp in the center of the 1st and 2nd crosses together and tensioning from the second cross down and tying off with the other 2 clamps if cwfl has three clamps. Clamp the 2nd and 3rd crosses near the frame on the side with the tail tension the top cross and move the clamp on the 1st and 2nd cross. You can then tension the 2nd and 1st crosses and there’s no need for a starting clamp.

But that’s of lot of wasted time and confusing. I’d make a brace around the starting clamp or use a starting knot.

EDIT: Another issue with placing the clamp in the center of crosses 1&2 is the 12 o’clock support may WILL be in the way.

 

[Irvin]

@cwfl how do you start your mains?

 

[Irvin]

@cwfl you have 2 big issues to overcome if you want to use what you call the Yonex method. Flying clamps and the Pro Stringer has no support except what it sits on and rests against.

 

[cwfl]

Using flying clamps which is what @cwfl has you can not clamp the 1st and 2nd crosses together and the 2nd and 3rd at the same time unless you have 3 flying clamps. Using this method one of the clamps will be a good distance from the frame because you can’t have 2 clamps on the 2nd string next to the frame at the same time.

I thought of something similar putting a clamp in the center of the 1st and 2nd crosses together and tensioning from the second cross down and tying off with the other 2 clamps if cwfl has three clamps. Clamp the 2nd and 3rd crosses near the frame on the side with the tail tension the top cross and move the clamp on the 1st and 2nd cross. You can then tension the 2nd and 1st crosses and there’s no need for a starting clamp.

But that’s of lot of wasted time and confusing. I’d make a brace around the starting clamp or use a starting knot.

EDIT: Another issue with placing the clamp in the center of crosses 1&2 is the 12 o’clock support may WILL be in the way.

Thanks for bearing with me - in fact I do have 3 flying clamps (I bought the Pro Stringer wide flying clamp too since I was saving some money via buying direct from PS rather than Racquet Depot UK)

For mains i starting-clamp the opposite side against frame (let's say right mains 1 - RM1), tension LM1 up to LM3 or LM4, then tension RM1 (I then remove the staring clamp as RM1 is under tension), then carry on with RM2-4, and so on. Think this has worked so far? (without any obvious source(s) of tension leakage i think...?)

It's really meant to be brainstorm for a simple solution --- i think what Irvin you suggested (putting a spacer/padding between PS and starting clamp) seems to be the simplest way to approach the way I was trying to do. If this doesn't work i'm of course more than happy to go the typical way of a starting knot w/o overthinking

 

[Jerry Seinfeld]

I am way too new a stringer so I'm probably talking nonsense. But does what you describe sound like basically doing the starting knot method but with an end knot instead?

You can use a starting knot, but not really necessary since you are not pulling tension directly against the knot. The more bulky starting knot is used when pulling tension directly to avoid it sliding into the grommet hole. With the process I outlined I believe almost any knot can be used, assuming the tie off grommet is not badly stretched and you are using an ultra thin string.

 

[cwfl]

You can use a starting knot, but not really necessary since you are not pulling tension directly against the knot. The more bulky starting knot is used when pulling tension directly to avoid it sliding into the grommet hole. With the process I outlined I believe almost any knot can be used, assuming the tie off grommet is not badly stretched and you are using an ultra thin string.

So if I am understanding correctly, what you are describing really is basically the same as starting knot…

… But instead of using the stringing machine to help tighten the knot in the case of starting knot, you are saying if you tie off the cross with an ending knot BY HAND, I’d be free to apply tension to [end of cross #2] to apply tension to both crosses #1 and #2?

 

[Irvin]

It's really meant to be brainstorm for a simple solution --- i think what Irvin you suggested (putting a spacer/padding between PS and starting clamp) seems to be the simplest way to approach the way I was trying to do. If this doesn't work i'm of course more than happy to go the typical way of a starting knot w/o overthinking

If you really concerned about tension loss on the top cross good idea. But I think you’re over complicating the process.

 

[cwfl]

If you really concerned about tension loss on the top cross good idea. But I think you’re over complicating the process.

Much appreciated - watching too many videos before even stringing once messed me up obviously!

BTW does my mains sequencing sound ok?

 

[Irvin]

Whatever way you want to start you mains or crosses is fine with me. I cand see advantages and disadvantages with lots of methods. Only you can choose your methods.

 

[cwfl]

Cheers Irvin for all the inputs. Onwards to something more important --- which is becoming faster, as I'm still clocking an hour in my second full stringjob (did it on my main, speed pro 2022 18x20)

 

[Irvin]

Cheers Irvin for all the inputs. Onwards to something more important --- which is becoming faster, as I'm still clocking an hour in my second full stringjob (did it on my main, speed pro 2022 18x20)

First use a starting knot and double pull the top 2 strings. Second it would be easier to weave the crosses if the stringbed were higher above the crossbar between the 6 and 12 supports.

 

[Jerry Seinfeld]

So if I am understanding correctly, what you are describing really is basically the same as starting knot…

… But instead of using the stringing machine to help tighten the knot in the case of starting knot, you are saying if you tie off the cross with an ending knot BY HAND, I’d be free to apply tension to [end of cross #2] to apply tension to both crosses #1 and #2?

Exactly.