Pushing up from the back leg on pinpoint serve?

[ChimpChimp]

She is learning to push up from the back leg. Also at 7:18. This is one point I don't understand. When you rock the body before tossing, you put your weight on front, back, front leg, then you toss?

Or front, back, toss, front?

Anyway, your weight is now on the front leg, then you push up from the back leg? Does it mean you rock back again before the push?

 

[nyta2]

when i used to do pinpoint, i did:
1. rock forward
2. rock back
3. rock forward
4. slice back foot up
but at this step (4) you should be 45% front, 55% back, or something like that, to really feel the drive starting from the back foot (especially if you are coiling "elbow the enemy", tilting, and bowing such that your head is over your back foot - this is where you hip will tend to protrude forward)
personally i switched to platform because i tended to toss "too far out in to the court" (which was either too far, or i wasn't good at "leaning from the ankes" enough) and my distribution would be more like 70% front, 30% back
in narrow platform (roddick), i can feel my weight distribution better, and the feedback/feeling on a less than ideal toss was more prominent to me.

 

[johnmccabe]

I have the same issue. Just had a chat with my doctor about left glute muscle stress. He thinks it's related to serve motion. Will try those drills and see if they make a difference.

 

[ballmachineguy]

Weight starts on front, you rock back, lower body comes to complete stop (very important) and you start toss and bring back foot up. You don’t want to push off of back foot much at all. It engages all of the wrong muscles.

 

[ChimpChimp]

Weight starts on front, you rock back, lower body comes to complete stop (very important) and you start toss and bring back foot up. You don’t want to push off of back foot much at all. It engages all of the wrong muscles.

You must rock forward before being able to lift back foot, right?

And you mean what she is trying to do (pushing from back foot) is wrong?

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

You must rock forward before being able to lift back foot, right?

And you mean what she is trying to do (pushing from back foot) is wrong?

There may very well be some benefit from her drill -- (like staying sideways longer). But I do not agree with her statement that the serve is (normally) hit off the back leg.

 

[Dragy]

In pinpoint stance, there’s different dynamics compared to platform: the step up creates momentum, which is then converted into vertical acceleration by pole-vaulting over your front leg. Back leg adds stability more than anything.

If you bend your legs more, like Shelton, of course you drive off both legs more. As it’s pinpoint, you don’t have to worry about distribution no more, you just drive with both.

Using platform you need to find balance and to a degree sequence to get both forward (off the back foot) and upward (both, but front more) drive.

Typical error in pinpoint stance is getting static after step-up - they kill all forward momentum and just push up.

In platform it’s engaging front leg too much too early - again restrains forward momentum, and they end up jumping vertical and landing behind the baseline, while reaching forward for the ball with just arm.

PS What Meike is doing is curing the over-opening of hips, I guess, to get more natural coil.

 

[ballmachineguy]

You must rock forward before being able to lift back foot, right?

And you mean what she is trying to do (pushing from back foot) is wrong?

Yes

and

Yes

 

[johnmccabe]

Weight starts on front, you rock back, lower body comes to complete stop (very important) and you start toss and bring back foot up. You don’t want to push off of back foot much at all. It engages all of the wrong muscles.

It's not possible to only push off from back foot. I guess she is saying the back leg can contribute some more.

 

[nyta2]

you don’t want to push off of back foot much at all

what?

 

[ballmachineguy]

what?

All of the muscles between your right foot and right shoulder (for rhs) contract and don’t allow right shoulder to move to contact.

Let AM show you how important the right leg is.

 

[nyta2]

back leg importance:

counter arugment:

IME i think i serve better with karue's mental model

 

[ballmachineguy]

I don’t think Karue, assuming he is the first video guy, even does what he says. All of his weight appears to be in his front leg.

https://imgur.com/a/w2DVHxg

 

[nyta2]

I don’t think Karue, assuming he is the first video guy, even does what he says. All of his weight appears to be in his front leg.

https://imgur.com/a/w2DVHxg

i used to think the same as you, based on pics, slow mo vids... but then did alot of drills where i *felt* myself pushing off my back foo, and my serve got a lot better...
agree to disagree.

 

[Dragy]

Back leg is important for platform serve, because if server just pushed off front foot, he’d jump vertically up or even backward. You sometimes see such serves among rec players.

Some platform servers may push over the front foot before the drive, which mostly eliminates the ability to use back leg to drive. But best ones hit trophy pose with center of mass still between the feet, and use back leg drive initially likely passing it over to front leg drive to leave the ground. Which carries them up and inside the court, and aligns the drive and swing properly.

Pinpoint serve is less complicated in this regard, if you reach good trophy with proper back leg position, nothing more can go wrong, just go for it.