Rafa FH 2019 now dropping on the Edge

[FailBetter]

Rafa now drops more on the edge of his frame / his RF is not closed anymore.

Why is he doing that now? Benefits?

He really changed that FH backswing over the years. Will add pictures when i have more time.

Also Fed changed his backswing over the years quite a bit. Nole on the other side seems to have the same (big) backswing over the last 10+ years.

2013, more djokovic like:

2019:

Felix doing something similar:

tsitsipas seems to do a similar thing but with no so an extreme grip

 

[acintya]

nice observation,however if you follow rafa close you always see some changes,he changed his whole takeback motion a zillion of times. I dont think Rafa needs that closening anymore and works also with his muscles on the forehand and that comes from hitting tens of millions forehands. i think he can do whatever he wants and will still hit a good fh,no mather the takeback.
but if you want to know, i think he is going for a more compact stuff lately.

 

[FailBetter]

yeah its quite interesting, because there were discussions that on the edge is more wta-style blabla.

wondering if he is opening it on purpose or if its just an reaction of shorter backswing.

then with those extrem grips, the racket face is normally closed so u have to turn ur arm to get it that open before the foreward swing

 

[FiReFTW]

You mean his backswing is shorter or what?

 

[FailBetter]

I mean what I said:

He is now (dont now since when exactly) dropping his racket more on the edge of the frame. So his racket face is more open.
"Normally" it is closed --> strings facing the ground. What is more natural, especially with extreme grips.

 

[FiReFTW]

I mean what I said:

He is now (dont now since when exactly) dropping his racket more on the edge of the frame. So his racket face is more open.
"Normally" it is closed --> strings facing the ground. What is more natural, especially with extreme grips.

You people really need to stop this overanalysis, nobody is dropping the racquet at the exact angle for some unknown purpose, it all depends on the ball coming ur way and the shot ur trying to hit.

Rafa from 2019:

Every forehand the racquet is at a different angle just before swinging forward. (His arm is also at a different position, sometimes slightly more of a backswing and sometimes less).

 

[FailBetter]

So ur saying he is hitting all same balls in this video:

and all the same balls, but different then first in this video:

Because he is clearly doing the same drop (on edge) in vid1 and clearly doing the same (face to ground) in vid2

has nothing to do with different balls

 

[Dragy]

It’s true Rafa goes into drop with his wrist coming through neutral into flexion sometimes, which stands behind RF opening. It’s different to what is usually referred to as “edge-on” drop - externally rotated shoulder and supinate forearm, racquet tip pointing backward, as in many WTA and DelPo backswings. Rafa’s racquet still points to the side fence.

 

[FiReFTW]

Anyway his 2019 way from the vid above seems weird, his old video one seems more normal and in line with how 95% of other atp forehands tend to do, some much more extreme even.

 

[Dragy]

Anyway his 2019 way from the vid above seems weird, his old video one seems more normal and in line with how 95% of other atp forehands tend to do, some much more extreme even.

It’s not exactly 2019, but maybe since 2017... And his mid-career tip-forward takeback is accompanied with his downswing in results, iirc.
His current form, one of the most compact, yet loop takeback is used extremely well by him, particularly in his blistering instantly prepared shots.

 

[FiReFTW]

Most top players and even nadal befpre used to have the racquet pointed down and in most cases the front edge pointed more down so that the strings face even the backfence more.

But in this vid it seems that nadal is having much less of a shoulder rotation or wrist/forearm rotation so that his strings not only dont face back but actually even slightly forward with the opposite edge (back edge) being more down.

Its quite odd and my first impression has me believe its a precaution and made so because of an injury or prevention of injury.

But maybe im wrong and he is tinkering with his forehand a bit, however its quite an odd position nobody really has this on the atp as far as i know.

 

[BetaServe]

Kinda like 2009 forehand

 

[FiReFTW]

Kinda like 2009 forehand

Good catch lol, interesting

 

[FailBetter]

Most top players and even nadal befpre used to have the racquet pointed down and in most cases the front edge pointed more down so that the strings face even the backfence more.

But in this vid it seems that nadal is having much less of a shoulder rotation or wrist/forearm rotation so that his strings not only dont face back but actually even slightly forward with the opposite edge (back edge) being more down.

Its quite odd and my first impression has me believe its a precaution and made so because of an injury or prevention of injury.

But maybe im wrong and he is tinkering with his forehand a bit, however its quite an odd position nobody really has this on the atp as far as i know.

glad u see it too.

as u can see in my initial post, felix (who is/was a big fan of rafa) is doing somethin similar.

Here is another one from 2009 where his FH looked quite strange:

in the 2019 video int the post above it just looks like he is going to slap the ball with that open RF. Doesnt looks like my mental image of a tennis stroke

 

[Chas Tennis]

Rafa now drops more on the edge of his frame / his RF is not closed anymore.

Why is he doing that now? Benefits?

He really changed that FH backswing over the years. Will add pictures when i have more time.

Also Fed changed his backswing over the years quite a bit. Nole on the other side seems to have the same (big) backswing over the last 10+ years.

2013, more djokovic like:

2019:

Felix doing something similar:

tsitsipas seems to do a similar thing but with no so an extreme grip

The best way to compare strokes is to do side-by-side comparisons and coordinate the frames in each video so that impact is at time "0" for each video. Then you can carefully see the stroke differences. Compare time lines of each stroke. Your Nadal pictures are at different times of the strokes, the first one has the shoulder turned back farther.

Video analysis application Kinovea can do side-by-side comparisons with a count down time line to impact. It's free, open source and not that hard to use.

Next make sure the circumstances are the same, incoming ball, resulting shot cross court or down the line, etc. No no warm up shots. Only high intensity practice shots or match shots that do not pressure the hitting player.

Then do stats.

But you may have a very good observation.

 

[FailBetter]

The best way to compare strokes is to do side-by-side comparisons and coordinate the frames in each video so that impact is at time "0" for each video. Then you can carefully see the stroke differences. Compare time lines of each stroke. Your Nadal pictures are at different times of the strokes, the first one has the shoulder turned back farther.

Video analysis application Kinovea can do side-by-side comparisons with a count down time line to impact. It's free, open source and not that hard to use.

Next make sure the circumstances are the same, incoming ball, resulting shot cross court or down the line, etc. No no warm up shots. Only high intensity practice shots or match shots that do not pressure the hitting player.

Then do stats.

But you may have a very good observation.

yeah I see maybe the important main parts / the fundamentals are still the same.

But just by playing the two videos every human being should see a big difference, how the stroke looks.


Here is the video of felix:

 

[Dragy]

in the 2019 video int the post above it just looks like he is going to slap the ball with that open RF. Doesnt looks like my mental image of a tennis stroke

But all of a sudden, his racquet flips back...

 

[ChaelAZ]

Saves a lot of wrist twist and looks more natural with ample lag for power. Same with Felix.

 

[FailBetter]

But all of a sudden, his racquet flips back...

true

Saves a lot of wrist twist and looks more natural with ample lag for power. Same with Felix.

wrist twist seems to happen anyway when he uncoil, no?

 

[Chas Tennis]

yeah I see maybe the important main parts / the fundamentals are still the same.

But just by playing the two videos every human being should see a big difference, how the stroke looks.


Here is the video of felix:

That video does not have a fast enough frame rate for tennis strokes. 240 fps is good for faster body motions but not for seeing ball squishing and other ball string interactions.

 

[BetaServe]

Tbh pros can hit however they want and they would still produce heavy spin and pace.

 

[Dragy]

Tbh pros can hit however they want and they would still produce heavy spin and pace.

TBH you can grip the wheel with either hand and still drive the highway.
However, there’re techniques and effort to be really fast on a racetrack.

 

[Powderwombat]

So you're analysing a few degrees of how open his racquet face is? Hm well if that's what gives you joy..

 

[FailBetter]

So you're analysing a few degrees of how open his racquet face is? Hm well if that's what gives you joy..

so ur writing meaningless comments in a tennis/tips&instructions-thread? Hm well if that's what gives you joy..