Riggs probably threw the match against Billie Jean King.

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
I'm going to file this thread under the "flat earth conspiracy" discussions. Having seen BJK play in her prime, she was truly an amazing world class tennis player with all the shots at her command. The Riggs match was played for real, and he simply got outplayed. BJK moved him around quite a bit and put a lid on his strategy to move her up and back. Her net game and overhead were impeccable that night and Riggs gradually became disheartened after being beaten so thoroughly in that match.
I watched the match on TV live...Riggs stunk from the beginning and made stupid errors on the most key points. It looked like he was not even trying to win.

The question is not whether he tanked, but why did Riggs make it look like he was tanking? He could have played King close and still made sure that she won, Riggs knew how to do that.

I think that Riggs was sending a message to his fans, that this was not the real Bobby Riggs on display, that it was a tank, that he could play much better if he chose to do so. That was the message he gave out.

Also, this match was different. Bobby could tank well, as he seemingly did in that 1946 series against an off-form Budge. But in this match, because of the huge amounts of money being made and lost, Bobby was ashamed. He said to his son right after the last shot, "This is the worst thing I have ever done." And he played this match as if he were ashamed of how it had been set up.
 

JW10S

Hall of Fame
Check out the video linked above...Riggs owed $100,000 in gambling debts, which were wiped out when he took the dive.
He told his son right after the match, "This is the worst thing I have ever done", and that was a mouthful.
Gar Mulloy was working with Riggs for the match, and was convinced that he tanked.
I don't see how there can be any doubt.
The publicity he would have gained from winning would have garnered him far more than $100,000 in endorsements, appearances and exhibitions. And I knew Larry Riggs, that's all I'll say...
 
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Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
The publicity he would have gained from winning would have garnered him far more than $100,000 in endorsements, appearances and exhibitions. And I knew Larry Riggs, that's all I'll say...
I don't see Riggs getting big money from winning that King match, he had already proved his point about women players in the Court match.
And Riggs made no attempt to win the King match.
Rigg's history of strategic tanking, for example in 1946, his inability to pay off his gambling debts in the early seventies, makes it seem certain that the fix was in. That video interview with the golf manager sounds convincing.
Gar Mulloy and Don Budge were both close to Riggs at this time, they both believed that Bobby tanked.
 

PMChambers

Hall of Fame
The publicity he would have gained from winning would have garnered him far more than $100,000 in endorsements, appearances, and exhibitions. And I knew Larry Riggs, that's all I'll say...
Huh, he was retired. He's not getting the endorsement. There was no money for non-professional exhibitions? He might make a few $1,000 on talk back but he's not making coin.
For reference 1984 Wimbledon winner learned $100,000. So no, he would earn more. How much did he get for the Mother's Day massacre? Not $100,000, probably not even $10,000.
 

martinezownsclay

Hall of Fame
BJK is a feminist. She's into girl power, the fact that she was 29 years old and beat a guy way, way, way past any type of prime seems irrelevant to her as long as she beat a guy. Its not like the revelation of the match being tanked would make a darn bit of difference today anyway. She maintains that he was trying to win... really? If Maradona admitted that he used his hand in the 86 WC match against England, would it alter the result? No. I don't see the fuss, why don't we look at the fact that she was in her athletic prime when she beat an 'old guy'. whats to be proud of there, it aint like she beat Stan Smith or John Newcombe or Dennis Ralston

I love BJK.
 

Chopin

Hall of Fame
Riggs would have won $100,000 if he had beat King, no? It was a 100k winner-take-all prize. Wouldn't that be incentive to win? The mob stuff is a little outlandish to me. Why didn't he just win if he could? And bet on himself to win if he was so confident?

Nah, the guy was washed up and lost. Billie played him the correct way by moving him around and rushing him.

By the way: does anyone have good quality footage of the match?
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
I think Riggs underestimated just how serious King would take him as an opponent. The reputation and honour of women's tennis was everything to King. In her mind, she had to beat Riggs after that Court match, she just had to. In Riggs' mind, he had battered Court so what opposition could King be(?), and he had already proved his point anyway that women's tennis wasn't at his level. That dynamic went against Riggs big-time when it came to the match against King. You should always respect your opponent so as to never underestimate them, although never respect them too much that you lose a competitive edge.
 

Vincent-C

Hall of Fame
Bobby Riggs's job for many years- in tennis and in golf- was to accurately assess opponents, for various reasons. I don't think he failed at that in the BJK "match", which I did watch live.
 

muddlehead

Professional
Watched it live in '73. Watched it on TV for the 50th last year. Footage exists on YTube.
Knew in '73 he lost on purpose.
Know from watching it last year he lost on purpose.
This I didn't notice till last year's viewing.
He signaled to his backers - or whoever - by double faulting his first serve point of the match and double faulting his last serve point of the match.
Weird
 

Chopin

Hall of Fame
I think Riggs underestimated just how serious King would take him as an opponent. The reputation and honour of women's tennis was everything to King. In her mind, she had to beat Riggs after that Court match, she just had to. In Riggs' mind, he had battered Court so what opposition could King be(?), and he had already proved his point anyway that women's tennis wasn't at his level. That dynamic went against Riggs big-time when it came to the match against King. You should always respect your opponent so as to never underestimate them, although never respect them too much that you lose a competitive edge.

Finding myself agreeing with this old sport, again. Riggs didn't take it seriously enough. There's no way he wanted to lose the match. He could have won 100k if he won; the whole 100k debt forgiveness is contingent on so many factors and the main piece of evidence is a conversation a guy supposedly heard 40+ years ago (through a closed door from 20 feet away).
 

Chopin

Hall of Fame
Watched it live in '73. Watched it on TV for the 50th last year. Footage exists on YTube.
Knew in '73 he lost on purpose.
Know from watching it last year he lost on purpose.
This I didn't notice till last year's viewing.
He signaled to his backers - or whoever - by double faulting his first serve point of the match and double faulting his last serve point of the match.
Weird

The footage on YouTube isn't very good. If anyone has a link to good footage, remastered in HD, let's see it.
 

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
Finding myself agreeing with this old sport, again. Riggs didn't take it seriously enough. There's no way he wanted to lose the match. He could have won 100k if he won; the whole 100k debt forgiveness is contingent on so many factors and the main piece of evidence is a conversation a guy supposedly heard 40+ years ago (through a closed door from 20 feet away).
No, those who were closest to Riggs believed that he threw it, Budge, Mulloy, Rigg's own son thought it possible.
 

Chopin

Hall of Fame
No, those who were closest to Riggs believed that he threw it, Budge, Mulloy, Rigg's own son thought it possible.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. For me, it's simple: he lost because he was underprepared, overconfident and got outplayed by a prime all-time great. That's it. End of story.

There's a guy on these boards who told me that Federer lost to Murray at the Olympics because the queen of England paid him a million dollars ha! There are people who think Donald Trump won the election despite losing (badly). There are people out there who think the earth is flat.
 

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist. For me, it's simple: he lost because he was underprepared, overconfident and got outplayed by a prime all-time great. That's it. End of story.

There's a guy on these boards who told me that Federer lost to Murray at the Olympics because the queen of England paid him a million dollars ha! There are people who think Donald Trump won the election despite losing (badly). There are people out there who think the earth is flat.
Bobby owed money to a rough group of folks...looks like he tanked to save his arms from being broken.

I do not begrudge him that.
 

Vincent-C

Hall of Fame
Bobby owed money to a rough group of folks...looks like he tanked to save his arms from being broken.

I do not begrudge him that.
A theme exists here: the little group who claim Riggs did not tank *did not watch the match* in real time. They also seem very fond of the "cunspiracy theoriss!" thought-stopper.

We all know- of course!- that never in the History of the World has any group *ever* conspired (dare I use the word?) toward a certain, favored, self-benefitting outcome; that has never, ever, happened.
Why, it would be illegal- and wrong! ;)


Of course Riggs tanked, children.. naysayers need to go read one or two of those old-fashioned book-thingies, in which they would find plenty of helpful material on three-time Wimbledon champion Bobby Riggs, and his later career.

[mostly] Jack Kramer, on Riggs:


> Small in stature, he lacked the overall power of his larger competitors such as Budge and Kramer, but made up for it with brains, ball control, and speed. A master court strategist and tactician, he worked his opponent out of position and scored points with the game's best drop shot and lob as well as punishing ground strokes that let him come to the net for put-away shots. Kramer, one of the very few players who were undeniably better than Riggs, writes that there is a major "misconception" about Riggs. "He didn't play some rinky-dink Harold Solomon style, pitty-pattying the ball around on dirt. He didn't have the big serve, but he made up for it with some sneaky first serves and as fine a second serve as I had seen at that time. When you talk about depth and accuracy both, Riggs's second serve ranks with the other three best that I ever saw: von Cramm's, Gonzales's, and Newcombe's." In his autobiography, Riggs wrote, "In the 1946 match with Budge [for the United States Pro Championship], I charged the net at every opportunity. Employing what I called my secret weapon, a hard first serve, I attacked constantly during my 6–3, 6–1, 6–1 victory."

"Riggs", said Kramer, "was a great champion. He beat Segura. He beat Budge when Don was just a little bit past his peak. On a long tour, as up and down as Vines was, I'm not so sure that Riggs wouldn't have played Elly very close. I'm sure he would have beaten Gonzales — Bobby was too quick, he had too much control for Pancho — and Laver and Rosewall and Hoad."

Kramer went on to say that Riggs "could keep the ball in play, and he could find ways to control the bigger, more powerful opponent. He could pin you back by hitting long, down the lines, and then he'd run you ragged with chips and drop shots. He was outstanding with a volley from either side, and he could lob as well as any man ... he could also lob on the run. He could disguise it, and he could hit winning overheads. They weren't powerful, but they were always on target." <


Yeah, the ultra-powerful BJK was just too good for Don Budge-beating Riggs in '73.. pushing him around at will.

Jamokes..




 
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Vincent-C

Hall of Fame
I'm not a conspiracy theorist. For me, it's simple: he lost because he was underprepared, overconfident and got outplayed by a prime all-time great. That's it. End of story.

There's a guy on these boards who told me that Federer lost to Murray at the Olympics because the queen of England paid him a million dollars ha! There are people who think Donald Trump won the election despite losing (badly). There are people out there who think the earth is flat.
Did you watch the Riggs-BJK match as it happened?

I'm pleased to read that you are not a "cunspiracy theorist"- since *We All Know* conspiracies never, ever occur. Whyever would a small group of understandably self-interested individuals even *dream* of pooling their various resources in the interest of a single preferred outcome?

That would be unimaginable, illegal, and wrong- and has never, ever happened in the History of This Great Game.

;)
 
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Vincent-C

Hall of Fame
As an aside- I watched Dennis Ralston working out his #1 player (South African, Stefan Kruger) at SMU in Los Angeles, when Ralston was about the same age as Riggs was when he played BJK, and was deeply impressed at Ralston's undiminished skills.
Riggs was a couple-few tiers up from Wimbledon finalist Ralston.
 
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Mustard

Bionic Poster
You are aware, of course, that Riggs had just crushed M. Court a few months previously..
A totally different dynamic there, though. Riggs had a point to prove against Court, and Court has a completely different attitude to King anyway.

Going into the match against King, Riggs already thought that he had proven the main point (i.e. that he's far better than women's tennis players) and King was determined to restore the reputation and honour of women's tennis that had been so badly damaged by Riggs battering Court.

If I remember right, Riggs challenged Evert initially and then King, but they wouldn't do it, so he then challenged Court, who accepted, to King's dismay, even more so when Court was defferential to Riggs and promptly got battered. King had to take on Riggs, then.
 

Vincent-C

Hall of Fame
A totally different dynamic there, though. Riggs had a point to prove against Court, and Court has a completely different attitude to King anyway.

Going into the match against King, Riggs already thought that he had proven the main point (i.e. that he's far better than women's tennis players) and King was determined to restore the reputation and honour of women's tennis that had been so badly damaged.

If I remember right, Riggs challenged Evert initially and then King, but they wouldn't do it, so he then challenged Court, who accepted, to King's dismay, even more so when Court was defferential to Riggs and promptly got battered.
I respect your opinions a lot, Mustard, and read them with real interest. We see the Riggs / BJK thing
quite a bit differently, and this-or-that factoid probably won't make a difference. As someone said above, Riggs looked like an NTRP 3.5 out there (my POV, as well). My take is still that he wanted his tank-job to be obvious. BJK hurting Riggs- even at fifty-five- on a tennis court? Uh, no comment.

I used to enjoy BJK's doubles playing paired with Rosie Casals, though. That was good women's tennis, back when many/most players knew how to volley (we're in the Dark Ages, now).
 

Vincent-C

Hall of Fame
A totally different dynamic there, though. Riggs had a point to prove against Court, and Court has a completely different attitude to King anyway.

Going into the match against King, Riggs already thought that he had proven the main point (i.e. that he's far better than women's tennis players) and King was determined to restore the reputation and honour of women's tennis that had been so badly damaged by Riggs battering Court.

If I remember right, Riggs challenged Evert initially and then King, but they wouldn't do it, so he then challenged Court, who accepted, to King's dismay, even more so when Court was defferential to Riggs and promptly got battered. King had to take on Riggs, then.
Adding- perhaps unwisely- that Riggs going from 2 and 1ing Court (a pretty good player, no?)
to losing to King in straights would be... unlikely. Riggs made it apparent early on in that "match" that he was Going to Lose: " Wimbledon Men's Champion Forgets How to Play Tennis!"
 

Chopin

Hall of Fame
A totally different dynamic there, though. Riggs had a point to prove against Court, and Court has a completely different attitude to King anyway.

Going into the match against King, Riggs already thought that he had proven the main point (i.e. that he's far better than women's tennis players) and King was determined to restore the reputation and honour of women's tennis that had been so badly damaged by Riggs battering Court.

If I remember right, Riggs challenged Evert initially and then King, but they wouldn't do it, so he then challenged Court, who accepted, to King's dismay, even more so when Court was defferential to Riggs and promptly got battered. King had to take on Riggs, then.

The actual tennis dynamics are totally different: King was clearly much more comfortable and confident than Court was, and she attacked the net. It wasn't like Riggs overpower Court with explosive movement and power at age 55. It was a game of cat and mouse, softballs, lobs, angles etc. King completely took the racquet out of Riggs' hands from what I saw.
 

Chopin

Hall of Fame
Did you watch the Riggs-BJK match as it happened?

I'm pleased to read that you are not a "cunspiracy theorist"- since *We All Know* conspiracies never, ever occur. Whyever would a small group of understandably self-interested individuals even *dream* of pooling their various resources in the interest of a single preferred outcome?

That would be unimaginable, illegal, and wrong- and has never, ever happened in the History of This Great Game.

;)
Bobby owed money to a rough group of folks...looks like he tanked to save his arms from being broken.

I do not begrudge him that.

Gentlemen:

It could make an entertaining movie. Start thinking about the casting. Maybe you could write in a few recurring scenes where Riggs is haunted by visions of the ghost of William Renshaw who urges him not to become involved with the mob. That, and a scene where he smashes a several frames on a practice court not in anger over his poor play but because of the squeeze the mob is putting on him (and also Jack Kramer!).


"Kuhle believes this version of history is blatantly false. For one, even if Riggs racked up a $100,000 mobster debt, he had more than enough in the bank to pay it off."

Also, he said Riggs stood to make “millions” on follow-up matches if he’d bested King.

“You always have reasons when you lose,” Kuhle said while surrounded by memorabilia in the museum. “For Bobby, it wasn’t to satisfy losings to the mafia. It’s because he didn’t train.”
 

Vincent-C

Hall of Fame
Gentlemen:

It could make an entertaining movie. Start thinking about the casting. Maybe you could write in a few recurring scenes where Riggs is haunted by visions of the ghost of William Renshaw who urges him not to become involved with the mob. That, and a scene where he smashes a several frames on a practice court not in anger over his poor play but because of the squeeze the mob is putting on him (and also Jack Kramer!).


"Kuhle believes this version of history is blatantly false. For one, even if Riggs racked up a $100,000 mobster debt, he had more than enough in the bank to pay it off."

Also, he said Riggs stood to make “millions” on follow-up matches if he’d bested King.

“You always have reasons when you lose,” Kuhle said while surrounded by memorabilia in the museum. “For Bobby, it wasn’t to satisfy losings to the mafia. It’s because he didn’t train.”
It's always interesting to hear alternative points of view. Mister Kuhle was an interesting character.
 

Vincent-C

Hall of Fame
A totally different dynamic there, though. Riggs had a point to prove against Court, and Court has a completely different attitude to King anyway.

Going into the match against King, Riggs already thought that he had proven the main point (i.e. that he's far better than women's tennis players) and King was determined to restore the reputation and honour of women's tennis that had been so badly damaged by Riggs battering Court.

If I remember right, Riggs challenged Evert initially and then King, but they wouldn't do it, so he then challenged Court, who accepted, to King's dismay, even more so when Court was defferential to Riggs and promptly got battered. King had to take on Riggs, then.
Headline: "Deluded woman attacks net; loses.."

The only way Bobby Riggs loses a tennis match to Ms. King is because he wants to [ahem].
 

Vincent-C

Hall of Fame
Headline: "Deluded woman attacks net; loses.."

The only way Bobby Riggs loses a tennis match to Ms. King is because he wants to [ahem].
I wonder how many here have actually played against an older (50+) male player.
In my experience they can be very good.
 

Vincent-C

Hall of Fame
Gentlemen:

It could make an entertaining movie. Start thinking about the casting. Maybe you could write in a few recurring scenes where Riggs is haunted by visions of the ghost of William Renshaw who urges him not to become involved with the mob. That, and a scene where he smashes a several frames on a practice court not in anger over his poor play but because of the squeeze the mob is putting on him (and also Jack Kramer!).


"Kuhle believes this version of history is blatantly false. For one, even if Riggs racked up a $100,000 mobster debt, he had more than enough in the bank to pay it off."

Also, he said Riggs stood to make “millions” on follow-up matches if he’d bested King.

“You always have reasons when you lose,” Kuhle said while surrounded by memorabilia in the museum. “For Bobby, it wasn’t to satisfy losings to the mafia. It’s because he didn’t train.”
Your comment is obscuratve.
 

Vincent-C

Hall of Fame
There was a predetermined narrative/ outcome for the Riggs-BJK Media Event:
"Stupid Man loses to Awesome, Enlightened, better-by-definition Woman!"

ok. Our Kind (kind, kind) Media Friends have been running with that trope for some time.
 
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Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
Gentlemen:

It could make an entertaining movie. Start thinking about the casting. Maybe you could write in a few recurring scenes where Riggs is haunted by visions of the ghost of William Renshaw who urges him not to become involved with the mob. That, and a scene where he smashes a several frames on a practice court not in anger over his poor play but because of the squeeze the mob is putting on him (and also Jack Kramer!).


"Kuhle believes this version of history is blatantly false. For one, even if Riggs racked up a $100,000 mobster debt, he had more than enough in the bank to pay it off."

Also, he said Riggs stood to make “millions” on follow-up matches if he’d bested King.

“You always have reasons when you lose,” Kuhle said while surrounded by memorabilia in the museum. “For Bobby, it wasn’t to satisfy losings to the mafia. It’s because he didn’t train.”
This guy was too close to Riggs to be objective.
The golf course man heard that Riggs would not just get his $100,000 debt to the mob wiped clean, but get a good share of the returns on the bets. That would be a lot.
 
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Chopin

Hall of Fame
This guy was too close to Riggs to be objective.
The golf course man heard that Riggs would not just get his $100,000 debt to the mob wiped clean, but get a good share of the returns on the bets. That would be a lot.

You already cited Riggs' son and you're dismissing someone as "too close to be objective." Ha!
 

Chopin

Hall of Fame
There is a difference between a family member and a financial partner.

The only reason you're discrediting the other guy is you disagree with him. If he's "too close to be objective," his son certainly is as well.
 
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Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
The only reason you're discrediting the other guy is you disagree with him. If he's "too close to be objective," his son certainly is as well.
His son Larry Riggs was not a player in Riggs' deals. Riggs' financial manager is a different story.
 

Chopin

Hall of Fame
Your comment is obscuratve.
I slept on it, and maybe the movie could have a twist ending: Riggs wins his money back by beating the mob leader in a tennis match using only a wooden spoon. Yet, he still has to lose against King because Nixon makes a phone call at the last minute.
There was a predetermined narrative/ outcome for the Riggs-BJK Media Event:
"Stupid Man loses to Awesome, Enlightened, better-by-definition Woman!"

ok. Our Kind (kind, kind) Media Friends have been running with that trope for some time.
Wait, so who was responsible for the predetermined outcome? I thought it was about the mob a little while ago...
 

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
I slept on it, and maybe the movie could have a twist ending: Riggs wins his money back by beating the mob leader in a tennis match using only a wooden spoon. Yet, he still has to lose against King because Nixon makes a phone call at the last minute.

Wait, so who was responsible for the predetermined outcome? I thought it was about the mob a little while ago...
Riggs apparently masterminded the whole thing. To save his own skin and make some big cash on the betting.
 

Chopin

Hall of Fame
Riggs apparently masterminded the whole thing. To save his own skin and make some big cash on the betting.

I was asking the poster who just implied the outcome was predetermined by the media, which greatly expands the conspiracy theory.

The whole conspiracy theory makes no sense though. He could have made 100k if he had won. Like his manager said, he'd have stood to make a lot more afterwards if he had won too. Think about it: what if he had won but "made it close," so another female challenger stepped up? He could have kept on doing matches. Once people saw King could beat him and that he was washed up, it was over for him.
 
I was asking the poster who just implied the outcome was predetermined by the media, which greatly expands the conspiracy theory.

The whole conspiracy theory makes no sense though. He could have made 100k if he had won. Like his manager said, he'd have stood to make a lot more afterwards if he had won too. Think about it: what if he had won but "made it close," so another female challenger stepped up? He could have kept on doing matches. Once people saw King could beat him and that he was washed up, it was over for him.
If he had beaten King after he beat Court I do not think there would have been much of interest for other matcbes of that sort. He could not have milked that cow forever.
 

JeanTennis

New User
I have my opinion after watching the match (He threw the match) but whether he did or did not, at the time it was a historic match. Whether it should be or not is up to debate. I personally find it rather offensive (only to a mild degree though) that a woman in her prime has to pick a guy way past his prime to validate herself and her tour. I was just as annoyed when Martina played Jimmy, where he only got one serve and she had half the alley. It's like, so what? What's the point? In my opinion it's degrading to women for a fit woman in her 20s to compare herself to an aged man well past his prime just to say that a woman can beat a man. A real battle of the sexes would have the woman's #1 against the men's #1000. Let's see how that match would go. It could be competitive, or it could be a blowout.

Much respect to BJK of course.
 
Interesting interview here from NPR. See this.


“VAN NATTA: Well, Hal Shaw was in the pro shop at the Palma Ceia Golf Club in Tampa, Fla., and he heard voices and looked through a window of a door. And he saw Frank Ragano, who was a member of Palma Ceia and a mob attorney, come in first, followed by two of the most infamous mob leaders of the 20th century whom Shaw says he recognized from their newspaper photographs. The first was Santo Trafficante Jr., who led the Florida mob. The second man was Carlos Marcello, who was the leader of the mob in New Orleans.

And there was a fourth man there who Shaw didn't recognize. They sat down, and Shaw says he was astonished to hear them talking about Bobby Riggs. Ragano tells the men that Riggs has brought them a proposal that he's going to play two exhibition matches against the top women players of the time - Margaret Court and Billie Jean King. Ragano says Riggs is going to beat Margaret Court, but then purposefully lose the match against Billie Jean King. Ragano mentions Riggs owed them more than $100,000 in gambling debts.”
 

CHillTennis

Hall of Fame
I'm not a conspiracy theorist. For me, it's simple: he lost because he was underprepared, overconfident and got outplayed by a prime all-time great. That's it. End of story.

There's a guy on these boards who told me that Federer lost to Murray at the Olympics because the queen of England paid him a million dollars ha! There are people who think Donald Trump won the election despite losing (badly). There are people out there who think the earth is flat.

:-D :-D...I'm sorry.

This goes beyond drinking the kool-aide.

You're basically drowning in it.
 

Chopin

Hall of Fame
It may well have been a fix, But even if King had beat the ghost of a 112-year old William Renshaw in 1973, there would be hot speculations of a fix, because there is no limit to the insecurity of the male of our species in these matters.

That's the problem with these conspiracy theories: every match that involves males and females (even mixed doubles) will prompt responses about the male players not trying, no matter the result, and it's impossible to discuss actual differences in the male/female tennis because certain chauvinist or ignorant posters on these boards start saying stuff like "he would have won 6-0, 6-0 if he had tried" (even if the score was 7-5, 6-2 and the guy said afterwards that it was a tough match).
 
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