Roddick Hype

[HollerOne5]

I just wish that everyone, including commentators, would stop talking up the fact that Andy Roddick is playing top level tennis again, without stating all the facts.

Yes, Roddick is apparently like 16-1 since partnering with Jimmy Connors, but no one mentions that fact that Roddick has not played any top ten players during that stretch. Oh wait, he did! His one loss to Blake.

Obviously he is playing better, but he hasn't played Federer, Nadal, Nalbandian, Bags, etc.....

I think everyone doesn't want to admit that Roddick's groundstrokes would never be effective enough to beat Federer or Nadal at this time.....just saying.

 

[tennis_hand]

Without the serve, he is still the average player he used to be. He still can't afford to have long baseline rallies. So as long as Fed or Nadal can break his serve, he is finished.

 

[Faber]

Backhand is a liability.

His serves wins most of his game...

What can you say, he's American and at the US Open they gotta show some favortism for their players.

 

[skip1969]

well . . . they gotta talk about SOMETHING in order to keep the us audience tuned in, don't they? me, i'd have been happy to see a becker/verdasco third-round match. roddick bores me to tears.

 

[HollerOne5]

Backhand is a liability.

His serves wins most of his game...

What can you say, he's American and at the US Open they gotta show some favortism for their players.

I know, you are right. I just figured by this day and age, we would be over this, and be more willing to recognize talent over nationality.

That being said, I completely agree that he would have to serve extremely well just to have a chance, and his only shot at breaking Fed or Nadal would be if either of those 2 were off their game big time.

Just watching Roddick play yesterday and today, his groundstrokes are not penetrating whatsoever, and he hits most in the middle of the court. Fed especially would have a field day with him.

 

[cuddles26]

I hope he takes out Nadal in the semis to shut his critics up. Even Federer in the final to boot if that is what it takes.

Oh I forgot people will say he only won because of his serve.

 

[HollerOne5]

I hope he takes out Nadal in the semis to shut his critics up. Even Federer in the final to boot if that is what it takes.

Oh I forgot people will say he only won because of his serve.

Haha, should we note that Roddick is 1-10 versus Federer, and his one win was a third-set tiebreak. Please, Federer on his current form, vs. Roddick on his current form, would probably make for a more lopsided final since the 2004 Open final.

 

[skip1969]

I hope he takes out Nadal in the semis to shut his critics up. Even Federer in the final to boot if that is what it takes.

you cannot say that a lot of the criticism isn't deserved. but if you get your wish and he beats nadal and fed, and wins the whole thing . . . well, then i guess you can gloat your heart out and talk about how much his game has developed, how he's not just a guy with a huge serve anymore, how he can return as well as the best, how his groundies are lethal, and how much jimmy connors has helped him with his volleys.

 

[alienhamster]

Can we make a deal here? I'll agree that Roddick is definitely overhyped right now, to the extent that he hasn't really shown his "top level tennis" the last few matches. But can YOU agree that you're completely (and consistently) understating his abilities in all of these threads? He has played much, much improved tennis in several of the Cincy matches and in his Indy matches this summer. Backhand was better, deeper, hit DTL more often. Returns were much cleaner and more varied. He played less defensively in rallies and actually took the initiative more, flattened out his shots while following up on them and playing defense when needed instead of just giving up.

But the Roddick of the last couple of matches in the Open is indeed the older one that plays way too defensively, returns like crap, and won't hit thru the backhand enough.

Old Roddick will get creamed by Federer. Improved Roddick could keep it really close and win if Fed was off.

Either Roddick could beat Nadal on this surface. I don't know why everyone keeps assuming Nadal would cream Roddick.

 

[dysonlu]

We'll all soon see how improved his game really has. So far, it is very unimpressive and boring. The only change I noticed was he seemed to force himself to the net more but that's about it. His backhand is still worthless and the forehand can't compete with the top dogs'. Here's a revealing stat of the match versus Becker: the qualifier had more non-service winners than Roddick (18 to 13)!

 

[Feña14]

... me, i'd have been happy to see a becker/verdasco third-round match. roddick bores me to tears.

Amen to that! Even if you are a Charlton fan .. see you on Saturday

 

[cuddles26]

Can we make a deal here? I'll agree that Roddick is definitely overhyped right now, to the extent that he hasn't really shown his "top level tennis" the last few matches. But can YOU agree that you're completely (and consistently) understating his abilities in all of these threads? He has played much, much improved tennis in several of the Cincy matches and in his Indy matches this summer. Backhand was better, deeper, hit DTL more often. Returns were much cleaner and more varied. He played less defensively in rallies and actually took the initiative more, flattened out his shots while following up on them and playing defense when needed instead of just giving up.

But the Roddick of the last couple of matches in the Open is indeed the older one that plays way too defensively, returns like crap, and won't hit thru the backhand enough.

Old Roddick will get creamed by Federer. Improved Roddick could keep it really close and win if Fed was off.

Either Roddick could beat Nadal on this surface. I don't know why everyone keeps assuming Nadal would cream Roddick.

I agree with all that. The old or new Roddick will beat Nadal in the semis if they play since the matchup on this surface just favors Roddick totally and he has no mental block with Nadal that Federer does explaining his horrid performances everytime he plays Nadal. The old Roddick will probably get wiped by Fed, but the one of Cincinnati could give Roger a real run, and pressure Roger to be on his game to win.

 

[isuk@tennis]

new roddick will get creamed by fed

 

[HollerOne5]

To say that Roddick would beat Nadal always on this surface is pretty funny, you might be eating your words in a few days. Especially since the "old" Roddick was losing to players like Ferrer on this surface.

 

[alienhamster]

To say that Roddick would beat Nadal always on this surface is pretty funny, you might be eating your words in a few days. Especially since the "old" Roddick was losing to players like Ferrer on this surface.

Who said "always"? I simply claimed that Roddick in whatever incarnation has a game that could match well against Nadal on this surface.

Mr. or Ms. Holler: for someone so critical of "hype" and overrating, you sure seem to go to irrational extremes in the other direction. Don't ya think Roddick has proven himself well in pretty much every slam except the French? Why in the world would you assume Roddick doesn't have a good shot against Nadal?

 

[randomname]

he has no mental block with Nadal that Federer does explaining his horrid performances everytime he plays Nadal.

for the love of god, does someone have to atleast somewhat reference fed vs. nadal in every thread? and on another note, why is it so hard for federer fans to admit that nadal can outplay federer? nobody makes excuses for nadal losing to federer at wimbledon because they arnt afraid to admit that federer was just the better player on grass; but that wasnt even enough, fed fans ALSO have to go so far as to say that the only reason it went to four sets was because federer was playing terribly. anyway, sorry about that, just a pet peeve of mine.

 

[cuddles26]

Probably because the Nadal fans assume that Nadal having a winning head to head with Federer means he is even more dominant vs other players that Federer is dominant against like Roddick. That is not the case at all, tennis is all about matchups. Federer is less vurnerable to losing to almost anybody then Nadal is, Federer has 1 loss outside Nadal all year, Nadal already has 6 outside Federer, and has missed parts of the year. Nadal having the edge in head to head play vs Federer(although I fully expect Roger to beat Rafa if they play in this years Open final)does not neccessarily translate to atleast or more dominance vs the same players Roger dominates historicaly.

 

[superman1]

He's in the quarterfinals of a Slam. He won a Master's title.

That's all there is to it. People say Roger Federer is so great, yet he doesn't play that many top tenners. He didn't play anyone in the top 10 to win Toronto.

 

[HollerOne5]

Who said "always"? I simply claimed that Roddick in whatever incarnation has a game that could match well against Nadal on this surface.

Mr. or Ms. Holler: for someone so critical of "hype" and overrating, you sure seem to go to irrational extremes in the other direction. Don't ya think Roddick has proven himself well in pretty much every slam except the French? Why in the world would you assume Roddick doesn't have a good shot against Nadal?

I'd be glad to explain my reasoning.

Roddick is a one dimensional player with a big serve, a decent forehand (but honestly, not anywhere near as accurate or consistent or penetrating or DEEP as Federer and Nadal), a backhand that even he is confused about (his 2 hander sits up, and his slice doesn't bite in the court like it should on some of his approach shots), and his volley is average at best. All of this, combined with the fact I truly don't believe Roddick thinks he is as good as the top players, is my reasoning.

In fact, I took the liberty of examing Roddick and Nadal's year-to-date stats. Both players hold serve very well (both over 70%, Roddick's even higher), but the number is the return game. Take the serve away, and you can measure pretty well how effective a player's groundstrokes and shot decisions are in comparison. Nadal's stats are much higher in EVERY return statistic available. Including the biggest stat, % of return games won, Nadal is 32%, while Roddick is at 23%. Stats don't lie....

There are many other reasons I could go on and on about, including the fact Roddick has lost to very weak players over the last couple years, or the fact Nadal handled an equally impressive server, Phillippoussis, pretty easily in the first round. Did we mention that Nadal and Roddick have yet to meet since Nadal has won 2 grand slams, Wimbledon final, and 6 Masters series events??

Nadal would cruise.....

 

[cuddles26]

He's in the quarterfinals of a Slam. He won a Master's title.

That's all there is to it. People say Roger Federer is so great, yet he doesn't play that many top tenners. He didn't play anyone in the top 10 to win Toronto.

Who cares, except for Nadal he has lopsided winning head to heads with all of them even if he had played them(Nalbandian is 7-6 but if you throw out the 5-0 Nalbandian gained to start all pre-2004 it is 7-1 Fed).

 

[cuddles26]

Did we mention that Nadal and Roddick have yet to meet since Nadal has won 2 grand slams, Wimbledon final, and 6 Masters series events??

Nadal would cruise.....

Oh now we even feel certain that Nadal would "cruise" vs Roddick, that is a might statement isnt it. :mrgreen: You might well be the one eating the big shoe in your mouth in several days.

 

[HollerOne5]

He's in the quarterfinals of a Slam. He won a Master's title.

That's all there is to it. People say Roger Federer is so great, yet he doesn't play that many top tenners. He didn't play anyone in the top 10 to win Toronto.

Ok, idiotic post, especially trying to base your thought on ONE of Federer's tournaments. I mean, look at who he played at Wimbledon to win that title and tell me Roddick could have done the same?

Meanwhile, here are some of Roddick's HOT losses this year

Marcos Bags, Andrei Pavel, Andy Murray (Twice), Julian Benneteau, Igor Andreev, David Ferrer, Tommy Haas, Gael Monfils, James Blake (twice)

Oh, and on top of that, he hasn't even had a chance to play any top 10 players (with the exception to his 2 losses to Blake) because he was losing to these types of players before he had a chance to prove himself to the Federers and Nadals of the world (and try to tell me that Fed or Nadal would lose to all of these types of players?)

Anyways, this thread wasn't to be about Roddick vs. Nadal, it was about the over hyping of Roddick. He is getting talked about and its undeserved, and that is the point of the thread. So just admit it.

BTW, Roddick vs. Hewitt is probably going to be the end of Roddick's run anyways, so we won't have to hear of it anymore.

 

[HollerOne5]

Oh now we even feel certain that Nadal would "cruise" vs Roddick, that is a might statement isnt it. :mrgreen: You might well be the one eating the big shoe in your mouth in several days.

You could be right, I'm just making an example, but like I said, I don't think that semifinal will even take place.

 

[alienhamster]

I'd be glad to explain my reasoning.

Roddick is a one dimensional player with a big serve, a decent forehand (but honestly, not anywhere near as accurate or consistent or penetrating or DEEP as Federer and Nadal), a backhand that even he is confused about (his 2 hander sits up, and his slice doesn't bite in the court like it should on some of his approach shots), and his volley is average at best. All of this, combined with the fact I truly don't believe Roddick thinks he is as good as the top players, is my reasoning.

In fact, I took the liberty of examing Roddick and Nadal's year-to-date stats. Both players hold serve very well (both over 70%, Roddick's even higher), but the number is the return game. Take the serve away, and you can measure pretty well how effective a player's groundstrokes and shot decisions are in comparison. Nadal's stats are much higher in EVERY return statistic available. Including the biggest stat, % of return games won, Nadal is 32%, while Roddick is at 23%. Stats don't lie....

There are many other reasons I could go on and on about, including the fact Roddick has lost to very weak players over the last couple years, or the fact Nadal handled an equally impressive server, Phillippoussis, pretty easily in the first round. Did we mention that Nadal and Roddick have yet to meet since Nadal has won 2 grand slams, Wimbledon final, and 6 Masters series events??

Nadal would cruise.....

Roddick is a much more complete player than Phillippoussis (at least nowadays--Flipper has such a weak ground game). People tend to put all "big servers" in the same category, but I don't think you can extrapolate much from there.

I really think this is going to be a much closer match than you're suggesting, assuming it does happen. Nadal is NOT as good when he's rushed early in a point, and Roddick definitely has the ability to strike early. If he serves consistently, Nadal will have a harder time breaking him than anyone else he's faced.

 

[tennis_hand]

He's in the quarterfinals of a Slam. He won a Master's title.

That's all there is to it. People say Roger Federer is so great, yet he doesn't play that many top tenners. He didn't play anyone in the top 10 to win Toronto.

so didn't Roddick.

 

[alienhamster]

Anyways, this thread wasn't to be about Roddick vs. Nadal, it was about the over hyping of Roddick. He is getting talked about and its undeserved, and that is the point of the thread. So just admit it.

It would help your argument if you could more rationally analyze the praise Roddick does and doesn't deserve. You seem to be claiming all Roddick praise is undeserved, as if nothing has improved and he has no results whatsoever. That's just too far of an extreme position to defend.

If you want people to argue with you seriously on this topic, you should make a stronger attempt to sound less like an irrational hater.

 

[superman1]

Wow HollerOne, Roddick is a one-dimensional player? That is such amazing insight, I've never heard that before. So what exactly is your point again? Roddick sucks? That's a good point. I'm not going to argue here. Roddick certainly doesn't deserve any hype just because he is winning matches. Winning matches is meaningless in this sport.

 

[cuddles26]

Actually I find one of Roddick's strengths seems to be his groundstroke consistency. For all the talk he should do more with his backhand, and stay closer to the baseline, which I agree with, he seems to make fewer errors then most of his opponents from the ground and wins alot of points by being more consistent from the baseline.

Obviously if he played Nadal that would not work though, but I think he would recognize that too and would approach the match appropriately.

 

[HollerOne5]

Wow HollerOne, Roddick is a one-dimensional player? That is such amazing insight, I've never heard that before. So what exactly is your point again? Roddick sucks? That's a good point. I'm not going to argue here. Roddick certainly doesn't deserve any hype just because he is winning matches. Winning matches is meaningless in this sport.

Wow, so you agree? Or are you as sarcastic as Roddick seems to be?

All I'm saying is America and Americans are so pathetically desperate for a champion, that they can't accept the fact that Roddick is a top-ten player, not a #1, and not a winner of any more major titles. Now, if you can't agree with that, then you aren't being rational.

And, my reasons for this have been well explained. Breaking down his game and strokes is pretty easy to do, and even the most average tennis fan can admit that Roddick has to rely too heavily on his strongest stroke, his serve, to win matches.

Sure, all top tenners have great weeks in the year, and maybe might win some titles (when they get lucky and the path through the draws have been luckily cleared for them, preventing them from playing the best players).

But for someone to say that old and new Roddick would beat Nadal on this surface (when Nadal has had 2 wins on this surface over Federer since he became #1 just to note) is a ridiculous statement.

 

[tennisfanatic]

Let's see what will happen at the US open before we criticize Roddick's game.

 

[superman1]

So that's what your argument is about. Roddick could not beat Nadal on this surface.

Well, we could see that match pretty soon, so save your pointless ramblings. Anyone with a brain can see that Roddick is one of the best players in the world and certainly has a chance against Nadal. He wouldn't be the favorite, but he does have a chance.

 

[Cfidave]

So that's what your argument is about. Roddick could not beat Nadal on this surface.

Well, we could see that match pretty soon, so save your pointless ramblings. Anyone with a brain can see that Roddick is one of the best players in the world and certainly has a chance against Nadal. He wouldn't be the favorite, but he does have a chance.

Not so sure about seeing Nadal vs Roddick. Hewitt has a very positive record against Roddick. Even Roddick has stated that " Hewitt handles his power better then anyone". Based on past meetings, Hewitt should once again, beat Roddick. As to the hype, it will always be there with this guy (the great american hope) , but I agree it is meaningless.

 

[guygee]

Hewitt matches up very well against Roddick. We are soon going to see if all this talk about the "New Roddick" molded by his new mentor Jimmy Conners is real or just hype. So far in this Open I see Roddick falling back into his old habits all too often, although it does look like his confidence is up.

 

[travlerajm]

Hewitt matches up very well against Roddick. We are soon going to see if all this talk about the "New Roddick" molded by his new mentor Jimmy Conners is real or just hype. So far in this Open I see Roddick falling back into his old habits all too often, although it does look like his confidence is up.

Actually, I think the "New Roddick", with spinnier more versatile 2hb, higher bouncing forehand, higher bouncing 2nd serve, and extra dedication to running around the backhand, matches up much better with Hewitt.

 

[jrstrat]

I'd be glad to explain my reasoning.

Roddick is a one dimensional player with a big serve, a decent forehand (but honestly, not anywhere near as accurate or consistent or penetrating or DEEP as Federer and Nadal), a backhand that even he is confused about (his 2 hander sits up, and his slice doesn't bite in the court like it should on some of his approach shots), and his volley is average at best. All of this, combined with the fact I truly don't believe Roddick thinks he is as good as the top players, is my reasoning.

In fact, I took the liberty of examing Roddick and Nadal's year-to-date stats. Both players hold serve very well (both over 70%, Roddick's even higher), but the number is the return game. Take the serve away, and you can measure pretty well how effective a player's groundstrokes and shot decisions are in comparison. Nadal's stats are much higher in EVERY return statistic available. Including the biggest stat, % of return games won, Nadal is 32%, while Roddick is at 23%. Stats don't lie....

There are many other reasons I could go on and on about, including the fact Roddick has lost to very weak players over the last couple years, or the fact Nadal handled an equally impressive server, Phillippoussis, pretty easily in the first round. Did we mention that Nadal and Roddick have yet to meet since Nadal has won 2 grand slams, Wimbledon final, and 6 Masters series events??

Nadal would cruise.....

With such a mediocre one dimensional game, it is odd that Roddick has been able to win a grand slam, 4 tennis masters and 21 ATP titles at 23.

 

[Zets147]

I think Roddick played better in Cinci than what he is playing right now.

 

[arnz]

With such a mediocre one dimensional game, it is odd that Roddick has been able to win a grand slam, 4 tennis masters and 21 ATP titles at 23.

He does have a 1 dimersional game, but that 1 dimension just happens to be the best in the business right now, an absolutely freakin huge serve. I can think of only one other person that had a better serve, and that person had the best serve of all time, Mr. Boring himself, Pistol Pete:mrgreen:

Even at his best, Roddick is susceptible to good returners. Check out his record against Hewitt, Agassi, and Fed. Tomorrow is the day of reckoning against Hewitt. We shall see

 

[Ash Doyle]

I think it is without a doubt that Roddick is playing his best tennis of the year now, but he seems to be making some poor strategic/tactical choices. I think he has some good skills, but he sometimes doesn't use them well due to some poor choices. I can't for the life of me understand why everyone says he needs to play the net. He doesn't do well up there. The volleys he does hit sit up and he is easily passed. Also, I wish he would stop using the slice backhand so much. Slice backhands and net play are great, but not for him. You have to use what you are best at, and he isn't right now. He's getting better at it, but I think it would be better for him if he just accepted he was a baseline basher and worked on building that strength and working on tactics that use that.

 

[tangerine]

I think Roddick played better in Cinci than what he is playing right now.

I agree. Roddick's been coasting so far. Hewitt will be his big test and he better pass it this time. :-|

 

[oberyn]

I think Roddick's (obviously) playing a lot better than he has in quite some time.

I also think the hype over his play has gotten outrageous. Last night, Patrick McEnroe was talking about Roddick's "new game". It looks a lot like his old game to me, just that he's been serving better, returning a little bit better, and playing with more confidence.

Connors didn't exactly go back to "square one" with Roddick here and reinvent his strokes from scratch.

 

[guygee]

Actually, I think the "New Roddick", with spinnier more versatile 2hb, higher bouncing forehand, higher bouncing 2nd serve, and extra dedication to running around the backhand, matches up much better with Hewitt.

travlerajm - I hope you are right. I've seen some improvements in Roddick's game like the ones you have mentioned, plus occasionally the previously unRoddick-like behavior of trying to step in and take his service returns early. Hewitt's not in the top form he was 3-4 years ago either, but I think it is still a tough match up. I hope Andy doesn't fall back into his old ways under pressure.

I don't want to sound jingoistic, but American tennis needs a boost. The Williams sisters have not been very good role models, and with Andre gone we need Andy and James to step it up and fully realize their potential. I also hope Taylor Dent can come back from his injuries and Fish sets some higher goals for himself someday.

My wife oversees the local public courts and promotes tennis day and night, especially programs for kids. The kids need good role models to inspire them, not a bunch of also-rans. I worry for the future of the sport in this country.

 

[guygee]

P.S. I even saw Roddick slice a backhand down the line deep and follow it in to put away the volley against Verdasco. Rarely if ever seen with the "Old Roddick" style. I don't agree that these changes to his game are just cosmetic, but he has to stick with it.