Sabr Tactic

[TennisMan96]

Has anyone tried using Roger Federer's new Sabr tactic (Sneak Attack By Roger) or half volley return of serve? I've been trying it the past couple of days and it is very effective when i get it back. Just wondering if anyone else has tried or is using it some and how well it works for them and also at what level.

 

[LeeD]

At least 3 different threads on TW Talk about that.
Most seem to use it sparingly, the results mixed at best.
For every surprise winner you make, you also get a surprise missed return of serve.

 

[TennisMan96]

At least 3 different threads on TW Talk about that.
Most seem to use it sparingly, the results mixed at best.
For every surprise winner you make, you also get a surprise missed return of serve.

That is very true, but I feel like whit a little practice i can use it as a very effective return to throw at a player every few points

 

[Shroud]

Yeah it works.

 

[LeeD]

I don't see it "working" thru a whole match.
It can work to win one or two points, but it can backfire and you miss the ROS or get passed.
Shroud, don't know if you know Henry or Myron, both league 4.0 doubles players, both 5'5" or shorter, who return serve regularly from mid NML. It can bother a new opponent for a few service games, but once seen, it's an easy solution.

 

[Shroud]

I don't see it "working" thru a whole match.
It can work to win one or two points, but it can backfire and you miss the ROS or get passed.
Shroud, don't know if you know Henry or Myron, both league 4.0 doubles players, both 5'5" or shorter, who return serve regularly from mid NML. It can bother a new opponent for a few service games, but once seen, it's an easy solution.

I seem to always return from NML if I count the hop into the court, but this is the SERVICE LINE. Kind of different.
Don't know them.

Its mental I think. Some like to gamble and SABR is a gamble that can often pay off. And well its another thing the server has to think about. And I dont think taking time away is a bad thing.

Anyhow Stefan called and wants me to hit with Rog, something about my BH being stanlike...

 

[LeeD]

I see you stand in mid NML, hit from short NML,but nowhere near the service line. If you hit from the service line, any deep spin serve beats you.
Anyways, I liked the returns of serve from the old 73 year old. He just sliced it soft to your and Nate's feet.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

At 4.0 and below 2nd serves are quite weak and are often "kick" serves that bounce waist high. IMO people at 4.0 and below should do it every second serve.

 

[LeeD]

My two buddies Myron and Henry do move into mid NML, then move more forward for their ROS off spin serves. Both play middlin 4.0 doubles. They usually lose to me and whomever is my partner.
Smart servers see this once, then serve deep, knowing a lob works against two guys crowding the net, especially two short guys.
Now, Isner and Anderson doing the same thing, might be a different ballgame.

 

[NLBwell]

I've done it for over 40 years. Just set the racket head on the service line while awaiting serve. Get the racket in the way of the ball just after it bounces. The harder the serve is hit, the quicker the ball gets back to the server. Easier to do on a hard serve than a soft serve. On a soft serve, since you have no backswing the ball comes back to the server much slower and gives him more time to set up for a pass.

 

[LeeD]

Wouldn't that cause problems from short serves?
What about wide second serves, to both sides? Can you slide the rackethead along the service line to cover both?

 

[NLBwell]

A step and a reach can cover everything other than the corners. If it is a well placed enough serve with enough speed you just aren't going to get to it. When I was younger, it had to be an excellent serve and probably would be an ace no matter where I stood. I had a very explosive first step because I grew up being a springboard diver. Now, much slower, it doesn't have to be as good - the server doesn't have to hit the line to get it past me, there is a decent sized area he can hit it into now. I don't receive from there nearly as often as I used to because it is easier to put it past me now, but it is still an effective tool on occasion.

I think everybody who is reasonably quick and has a good half-volley should be using it as a way to mix up things and unsettle the server. Yes, the server will probably win the point if he hits his spot, but that is true in any case.
Think of it similarly to serving and volleying - you are going to get passed and lose a certain percentage of the points, the percentages are in your favor, however.

 

[LeeD]

Try anything once, it might work.
Not recommended for confirmed baseliners.

 

[NLBwell]

You do have to have a good half-volley and the point is to get to the net quickly, so not really a baseline's game. Of course, since I don't like to take big swings on the serve return, I've never much returned from way behind the baseline.

 

[dominikk1985]

works against low Level serves but not against good serves unless you have superhuman Reflexes like federer.

 

[ATP100]

LOL: Was doing this in tourneys before Fed was born.

 

[NLBwell]

works against low Level serves but not against good serves unless you have superhuman Reflexes like federer.

No. I've done this successfully on occasion against guys who played the pro tour. There's no way anyone would call me superhuman in any way. I'm just an average Joe.
Go ahead and try it. It will work. No Swing, just get the racket in front of the ball and hit a half-volley. As I said above, it works better against harder serves. If you hit it off the frame, that can give the best results. Everyone should have this in their repertoire.

 

[Shroud]

No. I've done this successfully on occasion against guys who played the pro tour. There's no way anyone would call me superhuman in any way. I'm just an average Joe.
Go ahead and try it. It will work. No Swing, just get the racket in front of the ball and hit a half-volley. As I said above, it works better against harder serves. If you hit it off the frame, that can give the best results. Everyone should have this in their repertoire.

Totally agree. It can work. I am slow and its easier to handle the angles than staying back. Sure its a gamble but even if I miss, the server has to be thinking about it.

 

[Fedinkum]

Has anyone tried using Roger Federer's new Sabr tactic (Surprise Attack By Roger) or half volley return of serve? I've been trying it the past couple of days and it is very effective when i get it back. Just wondering if anyone else has tried or is using it some and how well it works for them and also at what level.

I thought is Sneaky Attack

 

[tennisdad65]

Old Farts have been doing this in doubles for decades. Difference is they do it against 40-60 mph serves. Fed is doing it against 80-90 mph serves.
I am sure Becker has instructed Novak to put the first SABR return right through Fed's belly if he tries it in the finals.

 

[Fedinkum]

Old Farts have been doing this in doubles for decades. Difference is they do it against 40-60 mph serves. Fed is doing it against 80-90 mph serves.
I am sure Becker has instructed Novak to put the first SABR return right through Fed's belly if he tries it in the finals.

If he does that, I like to see Boris takes over crowd control

 

[Murrayjuannow]

I seem to always return from NML if I count the hop into the court, but this is the SERVICE LINE. Kind of different.
Don't know them.

Its mental I think. Some like to gamble and SABR is a gamble that can often pay off. And well its another thing the server has to think about. And I dont think taking time away is a bad thing.

Anyhow Stefan called and wants me to hit with Rog, something about my BH being stanlike...

Coooooool. Did you play some points with RF? Who won?

 

[Shroud]

I lost 6-1 in the third. SABR had me rattled.

He was wearing pink and I think that zapped my strength...like Sureshs shoes.

 

[Murrayjuannow]

I am sure Becker has instructed Novak to put the first SABR return right through Fed's belly if he tries it in the finals.

Beware of Roger's secret weapon :

ABRACADABRA

(Amazing Belly Racquet Armour Counter Attacking Djokovic's Adamant Barbarous & Reckless Attack)

[emoji41] [emoji41] [emoji41] [emoji41] [emoji41] [emoji41] [emoji41] [emoji41] [emoji41] [emoji41] [emoji41]

 

[TennisMan96]

I lost 6-1 in the third. SABR had me rattled.

He was wearing pink and I think that zapped my strength...like Sureshs shoes.

I didn't know you were Stan

 

[TennisMan96]

Old Farts have been doing this in doubles for decades. Difference is they do it against 40-60 mph serves. Fed is doing it against 80-90 mph serves.
I am sure Becker has instructed Novak to put the first SABR return right through Fed's belly if he tries it in the finals.

I've been trying it against my friends who are about 4.5 level and it's tough to get a big serve back using it, but very effective when it does go back

 

[Shroud]

I didn't know you were Stan

shhhhhh

 

[Laver777]

This isnt new. Its just rare to see pros doing it because they serve so good. Puts pressure on the server and often makes them fault. More common is a chip and charge tactic off the serve, slicing it low taking the serve early, like off a half volley and coming in. You often get a fault from the server.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Old Farts have been doing this in doubles for decades. Difference is they do it against 40-60 mph serves. Fed is doing it against 80-90 mph serves...

Yeah, I was doing it every once in a while even before I became an old fart. But, as you say, those were very predictable and very attackable 2nd serves. Impressive to see Roger doing this against ATP servers. Some of the servers he's used it against were guys that often hit 2nd serves in excess of 105 mph. He employed the SABR against big serving, Kevin Anderson (at Cincy), and Leonardo Mayer (USO).

He also stepped in & attacked some of the 2nd serves of Fernando Lopez (Cincy), another guy who can hit monster serves. (Not certain, however, if he employed any full-fledged SABRs against Lopez. Had heard that he did but not seen any vids that showed it). In the following video, from his final against Novak in Cincy, he SABRs 2 serves that were clocked at 106 mph.

When asked if he would employ SABR against Isner, Fed indicated that he did not plan to do so. He indicated that he hasn't played often enough against John's huge serves to get a good read on them. He mentioned that he was better at reading big servers like Roddick, Raonic and Karlovic.

http://www.tennis-x.com/xblog/2015-09-06/20598.php

... I am sure Becker has instructed Novak to put the first SABR return right through Fed's belly if he tries it in the finals.

Easier said than done. Roger takes the ball so early that he gets the serve back to the server (so quickly) that they are sometimes still recovering from their own service motion. Roger hits many of those SABRs quite deep. Of the 11 times (or more?) that Roger used it in the final at Cincy, Novak only managed to hit 2 decent replies -- 1 passing shot and a good defensive reply (followed by a great lob). Roger failed on to make his SABR on 2 of those 11 attempts.

Given that he had 9 opportunities to return Roger's SABR in that final, Novak might have been tempted to blast a reply back at him -- IF he was in position to do so. Difficult to blast Roger at the net if you are near the baseline and just recovering from your serve.

 

[tennisdad65]

I am now waiting with bated breath for Nadal's counter : HGXHTTSMRFF (Heavy Grunting Extremely High Topspin To Sky Moonball Return From Fence)
oh wait.. he already has been doing this for ever

 

[Murrayjuannow]

Nada has his own SABR (Sticky Arsy By Rafi)