Safin vs Wawrinka - who is the better player?

[mike danny]

I agree although I was impressed by his 2014 run. I think he would have beaten Federer at Wimbledon had he not been injured mid match and had he made it to the final vs djokovic who knows. Of course all speculation.

I don't think Wawrinka was injured at 2014 Wimb. Just a bit gassed.

 

[mike danny]

He had a good chance to beat Federer but I think Djoker takes him out fairly easily if he does make the final.

Federer won the crucial second set tiebreak against Stan. Not so sure Stan would have won.

And you can never rule out Stan against Djokovic in a major.

 

[Mazz Retic]

I don't think Wawrinka was injured at 2014 Wimb. Just a bit gassed.

My memory is hazy. You might be right. It's a shame his level droppes after those first 2 sets.

 

[BGod]

My God, a 27-27 poll after my vote. That's close.

How do you even break this? You can't just do 3>2 because both made 4 Finals and Safin got the 5>1 in Masters but then Wawrinka has had more wars and 5 notable seasons over Safin's 3.5 (late results 01 and early in 05).

 

[lud]

Wawrinka, easily.

 

[metsman]

Slam count isn't the end all. Safin's 04 AO run is much more impressive than Stan's 16 USO run and Safin's game translates better to different types of opponents. Stan's return leaves him way too vulnerable to well serving top players. Sampras would shred him, Fed would too, probably doesn't do much against prime Nadal either. Safin has big wins over Sampras and Fed obviously (even beat Djokovic way past his best) and his game would match up well with Nadal.

Safin has the better peaks at AO, Wimby (not by much, but 08 was more impressive than any of Stan's), USO and indoors/YEC. Stan has a little more longevity as a top player and the better RG peak (outside RG, Safin has produced much better clay tennis though).

 

[tennisfan2015]

Stan.

 

[tennisfan2015]

Slam count isn't the end all.

If that's the case Nadl> Fedr

 

[RaulRamirez]

If you're asking about higher peak (there's that word again) level, I'd go with Marat. I just think that he had more ways to beat you and was a slightly better athlete and a better all-around player.

Why we didn't see Safin more often at his peak is still a bit mistifying, with some of it explained by him not exactly having the work ethic of The Big 3, and many others who would die to have that much talent.

 

[Red Rick]

Safin.

Much better racket breaks.

 

[BGod]

If that's the case Nadl> Fedr

6 WTFs to 0?

 

[Deleted member 743545]

Marat will always be better than Stan in my book.

 

[sredna42]

Maaaaan what a hard question. I'm stumped.

 

[droliver]

Stan.

More slams and longer peak in a more difficult era, better overall record, more titles, double the prize money.

 

[Noletheking]

Counting against Safin is the fact he lost a slam final to Johansson, but counting against Stan is that even after finding his best tennis he has still managed to remain the Penfold to Federer's Dangermouse. God mode Safin had no master, while Stanimal never blew an opportunity the way Safin did that year down under. I'd probably give the edge to Safin, just because I think slightly more of 00 Sampras and 05 Federer on those surfaces than I do 14 Nadal and 15/16 Djokovic on those. Plus, I think 2 of Stan's 3 slam wins are slightly, slightly overrated, especially the third one. Where as both of Safin's are god tier legit. That run to the final in 04 too. Holy moly.

One big victory ove your master doesnt make you free. Stan defeated peak Djokovic at Ao , same AO where Fed has not won 2 sets against him (plexicushion) that counts atleast equal to Safin defeating Fed in 05.

 

[Shaolin]

Safin was better but Wawr did more with what he had.

 

[FatFedererFanTurnsSlim]

Safin was devastated by injuries from 2003 to the end of his career but for brief periods in early 04 & late 04-early 05. Even allowing for his mental walkabouts, he could have easily had at least a Murray type career, if not a Becker/Edberg type career, had he remained even competently fit.

An 18 year old Safin defeated Agassi & defending champ Guga back to back in his debut slam. That's how good he was. Wawrinka didn't reach a slam QF until he turned 25. I love Stanimal but it's Safin all the way.

 

[FatFedererFanTurnsSlim]

Sampras actually had a solid campaign at the USO 2000, coming from a 7th Wimbledon title just a few weeks prior, dropping only 1 set en-route to the final IIRC. He was just hapless, had no answer to the young Safin's GOATing performance. Period!

I could never forget that match, I was in awe of the young Russian's performance and I would have sworn that this young lad was going to dominate tennis for the next decade. Sadly it didn't happen. Even commentators and former ATGs praised that performance as one of the greatest ever.

Sampras himself said that & iirc he hated praising his opponents.

 

[tennisfan2015]

6 WTFs to 0?

So?!

 

[Backspin1183]

Wawrinka greater.

 

[BGod]

Stan.

More slams and longer peak in a more difficult era, better overall record, more titles, double the prize money.

Inflation and tournaments raising their money is a thing. Yes Stan has 1 more Slam but in same number of Finals while Safin has 5-1 Masters. So where does Stan have more titles the 250s?

 

[Lew II]

..

 

[NatF]

Safin on HC, Wawarinka on clay. Neither are anything to write home about on grass,

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

carrer wise Wawarinka, but if I have to select as a player then Safin, always loved his 2 hand backhand

 

[Lew II]

Slam matches played against Big4/Agassi/Sampras past 3th round:

Wawrinka 22
Safin 8

 

[cronus]

who is this safin?

 

[Noletheking]

Safin was devastated by injuries from 2003 to the end of his career but for brief periods in early 04 & late 04-early 05. Even allowing for his mental walkabouts, he could have easily had at least a Murray type career, if not a Becker/Edberg type career, had he remained even competently fit.

An 18 year old Safin defeated Agassi & defending champ Guga back to back in his debut slam. That's how good he was. Wawrinka didn't reach a slam QF until he turned 25. I love Stanimal but it's Safin all the way.

Funny how most of fed early rivals were injured, out of prime or irrelevent in their mid 20sor by 27.

 

[FatFedererFanTurnsSlim]

Funny how most of fed early rivals were injured, out of prime or irrelevent in their mid 20sor by 27.

Federer's generation was also plagued with injuries. They were all the early 80s kids, used to playing in conditions not requiring ridiculous amount of attrition. As the courts got progressively slower, baseliner or not, all of them succumbed to the conditions. Hell, even Nadal hasn't been completely immune to the effects of playing that style on slow HCs and the like. Federer lived on perhaps because he anticipated the change better. Even now, his awareness of himself and the game is remarkable. I think that is where guys like Nalbandian fell short.

 

[Pheasant]

Safin for peak by a fairly big margin. Away from clay, Stan has never beaten Fed in about 17 tries. Even old man Fed gave Stan fits. I think Sampras with his aggressive tennis would have destroyed Stan. However, Safin rarely hit these levels whereas Stan was far more consistent.

I have to give this one to Stan. One more slam title for Safin would have changed my pick.

 

[StringSnapper]

Well, Safin was a threat to everyone including Federer when he was on fire while Wawrinka never ever challenged a peak/prime Federer. Wawrinka might have 3 slams mainly because of his good match up with Djokovic, while Safin won 2 of his majors beating 2 candidates of GOAT.

I vote for Safin, although I will always appreciate Wawrinka's winning over Djokovic at 2015 FO final, which had kept Djokovic from winning a CYGS and kept some of his fanboys at bay.

Wawrinka has 3 slams because of his good match up with djokovic?

Pulllease, the matchup is 19 to 5 in djokovics favour ... stan is just clutch as they come in the big moments in the biggest matches

Old diesel just needs to be warmed up, hence Wawrinkas "peak" is higher than Safin.

 

[King No1e]

Fedr.

 

[Stilljonesing]

Wawrinka and Safin are similar in some ways. Both have incredible high peak levels, high enough to challenge peak/prime Federer, Nadal or Djokovic. Both are unpredictable/inconsistent, beating ATGs to win a slam one tournament, only to lose to challenger level players the next, frustrating as a fan of either. Both have Open Era Top 3 GOAT BHs (1 DHBH/1 SHBH), as well as similar career win/loss %. Both won similar number of ATP titles (15/16), and also made 4 slam finals and winning Davis Cup. Wawrinka won one more slam, but Safin makes it up with 4 more Masters titles, so achievement-wise, it's very similar.

Who has the better:

Serve - Safin
FH - Wawrinka
BH - Safin
Volleys - Safin
Overheads - Safin
Movement/footwork - Wawrinka (clay), Safin (HC), parity (grass)
Mental strength - Wawrinka

Some of their best tournaments:
Safin - A0 '05, Paris Bercy '02 (I think), USO '00, AO '02 (how he lost that final is tennis' biggest mystery) and WTF '04 (lost a tight SF to Fed which included a massive TB - had his chances to close out the 2nd set then it's anyone's guess who'll win in the 3rd - Hewitt would have been toast in the final either way).

Wawa - AO '14, RG '15, MC '14 and AO '13 (had his chances to close it out vs Djoker but choked, could have won the whole thing had he won that match).

Putting bias aside, I have to go with Safin as the greater of the two. Just watch the USO final 2000 how he dismantled Sampras, or any of his GOATing matches and you'll know were i'm coming from.

What are your thoughts?

I think Stafin's era is underatted with lots of good players but anyone that can get three slams in the era Wrawinka played in hands down.

 

[Stilljonesing]

Did you watch the match? How exactly did he choke? Why every tight loss has to be considered as a choke?

Also any dude that is 3-1 in grand slam finals that are all against Djokovic and Nadal with that only loss being to Nadal on clay I think the choker label can't apply regardless. I don't know if there has ever been a better converting percentage in the finals. It's almost like those players got tight vs him expecting to win or something not the other way around.

 

[mikeeeee]

Wawa beat peak Novak (Ultron) more than once in GS finals on two different surfaces (not to mention Nadal at the AO final) which ends this thread.

 

[skaj]

Wawrinka and Safin are similar in some ways. Both have incredible high peak levels, high enough to challenge peak/prime Federer, Nadal or Djokovic. Both are unpredictable/inconsistent, beating ATGs to win a slam one tournament, only to lose to challenger level players the next, frustrating as a fan of either. Both have Open Era Top 3 GOAT BHs (1 DHBH/1 SHBH), as well as similar career win/loss %. Both won similar number of ATP titles (15/16), and also made 4 slam finals and winning Davis Cup. Wawrinka won one more slam, but Safin makes it up with 4 more Masters titles, so achievement-wise, it's very similar.

Who has the better:

Serve - Safin
FH - Wawrinka
BH - Safin
Volleys - Safin
Overheads - Safin
Movement/footwork - Wawrinka (clay), Safin (HC), parity (grass)
Mental strength - Wawrinka

Some of their best tournaments:
Safin - A0 '05, Paris Bercy '02 (I think), USO '00, AO '02 (how he lost that final is tennis' biggest mystery) and WTF '04 (lost a tight SF to Fed which included a massive TB - had his chances to close out the 2nd set then it's anyone's guess who'll win in the 3rd - Hewitt would have been toast in the final either way).

Wawa - AO '14, RG '15, MC '14 and AO '13 (had his chances to close it out vs Djoker but choked, could have won the whole thing had he won that match).

Putting bias aside, I have to go with Safin as the greater of the two. Just watch the USO final 2000 how he dismantled Sampras, or any of his GOATing matches and you'll know were i'm coming from.

What are your thoughts?

Forehand Wawrinka? If I had to choose one, I'd choose Safin's. On the other hand, their backhands are pretty equal for me, different strokes, but both very dangerous.
I would also include return(Safin)

 

[skaj]

Wawa beat peak Novak (Ultron) more than once in GS finals on two different surfaces (not to mention Nadal at the AO final) which ends this thread.

Yes, but injured Nadal and injured Novak in New York.

 

[BGod]

Also any dude that is 3-1 in grand slam finals that are all against Djokovic and Nadal with that only loss being to Nadal on clay I think the choker label can't apply regardless. I don't know if there has ever been a better converting percentage in the finals. It's almost like those players got tight vs him expecting to win or something not the other way around.

3-1?

Sampras went 14-4 in his career (78%) but was 12-2 (85.7%) until last 2 seasons.

 

[Stilljonesing]

3-1?

Sampras went 14-4 in his career (78%) but was 12-2 (85.7%) until last 2 seasons.

Yeah and had he played prime Djokovic and Nadal in every grand slam final you think that percentage would be 75% ? I think you have to add that context to the opponents. Literally 75% while only playing 2 of the 3 all time greats in their prime in all 4 of his finals and the guy is 75%. That's also assuming 25% of the finals and the only percentage of loss would be on clay vs the greatest player on that surface by a mile ever, so even his only loss is far greater too, which Sampras never even made in his era which also helps inflat his just by lack of getting there.

 

[BGod]

Yeah and had he played prime Djokovic and Nadal in every grand slam final you think that percentage would be 75% ? I think you have to add that context to the opponents. Literally 75% while only playing 2 of the 3 all time greats in their prime in all 4 of his finals and the guy is 75%. That's also assuming 25% of the finals and the only percentage of loss would be on clay vs the greatest player on that surface by a mile ever, so even his only loss is far greater too, which Sampras never even made in his era which also helps inflat his just by lack of getting there.

Sample size is a thing. If Wawrinka plays 2 more Finals maybe he's 3-3, see how that works?

And Sampras would butcher Nadal on a fast surface, Dustin Brown made that clear.

 

[Hard Court]

Those two are about as even as it gets. Wawinka was 16 titles, Safin 15. Interesting that they both won a significantly higher % of their matches at Grand Slams then they did overall. Guess you have to lean towards Wawinka. Safin was obviously more talented, but he didn't have a better career.