Sampras-Federer at Wimbledon during their best years, how do you think it goes?

[NoleIsBoat]

Had enough with you, anyways. What's the deal with Fed haters (actually, haters of any player in general) and arguing in bad faith, anyway? Seems like a trait every one of them has.

Which Fed haters? I appreciate the third wheel has played some amazing tennis... 2015 my favourite year of his

 

[Sunny014]

NolelsBoat should change his Display Name to NolelsLoat.

LOAT stands for Luckiest of all time.

Nole's closest rival in his age group Nadal is a claycourter.
Top fast courts player outside Clay Federer is aged 30 when Nole's prime begins
Nole despite being on 6 slams on his 27th birthday gets a weak set of youngsters below him (Jokers like Kyrgios, Thiem, Dimitrov etc etc) unable to stop him giving him a free pass of many slams and will also help him to be the leader of the record in future.

Life could never get better, so lucky.

 

[NoleIsBoat]

NolelsBoat should change his Display Name to NolelsLoat.

LOAT stands for Luckiest of all time.

Nole's closest rival in his age group Nadal is a claycourter.
Top fast courts player outside Clay Federer is aged 30 when Nole's prime begins
Nole despite being on 6 slams on his 27th birthday gets a weak set of youngsters below him (Jokers like Kyrgios, Thiem, Dimitrov etc etc) unable to stop him giving him a free pass of many slams and will also help him to be the leader of the record in future.

Life could never get better, so lucky.

Luckiest player having to deal with 2 GOAT contenders his whole career, and a 3rd ATG (Murray) for most of peak years?
damn imagine he had Bagdhatis, Roddick, Philippousis, Bjorkman, Kiefer instead of Federer and Nadal

 

[Sunny014]

Luckiest player having to deal with 2 GOAT contenders his whole career, and a 3rd ATG (Murray) for most of peak years?
damn imagine he had Bagdhatis, Roddick, Philippousis, Bjorkman, Kiefer instead of Federer and Nadal

If he was in that 80-81 born generation then his teen years (when kids develop muscle fibers) would have fallen the 90s on the SNV courts, he would have been weaker and unable to hit hard.

Guys like Nalbandian, A Rod, Safin would all have overpowered him, for get Baghtatis, he wouldn't have even got past the hardhitters of the 00s

 

[Deleted member 778933]

If he was in that 80-81 born generation then his teen years (when kids develop muscle fibers) would have fallen the 90s on the SNV courts, he would have been weaker and unable to hit hard.

Guys like Nalbandian, A Rod, Safin would all have overpowered him, for get Baghtatis, he wouldn't have even got past the hardhitters of the 00s

So A Rod and Safin couldn't regularly overpower Hewitt but they would destroy Nole?

 

[NoleIsBoat]

So A Rod and Safin couldn't regularly overpower Hewitt but they would destroy Nole?

I think that guy is a troll or comedian

 

[Sunny014]

So A Rod and Safin couldn't regularly overpower Hewitt but they would destroy Nole?

Novak would be weaker physically if we was born 7 years earlier.

The generation which got 6-7 teen years in the 00s is the one which has the baseline bullies.
The gen which was teen in the 90s and turned pro grew up on SNV and everyone including federer is weaker physically compared to the modern 86-88 borns

So Novak would be quite different if he were born 7 years back, he might not have been half the baseliner that he is now.

 

[Deleted member 744633]

Why didn't he win in 2012 Semis ?
Why he lose in 4 sets ?
It was after he touched his peak, he had already won wimbledon in 2011 and also had that big 2012 6 hours match .... he was at his peak

yet a 31 yr old federer spanked him ? why ?

Novak is not capable of beating peak federer on any grass - PERIOD

Wonderful question Machan and I don't know the answer. Perhaps he lost his mojo root after his incredible 2011 season? But the fact is that Federer was not the only one who beat him that season in the majors. Nadal & Murray did as well so I don't know that you can use that victory to conclude Federer's superiority on grass courts. In fact, Nadal & Murray beat him again in the 2013 season as well.

 

[abmk]

Wonderful question Machan and I don't know the answer. Perhaps he lost his mojo root after his incredible 2011 season? But the fact is that Federer was not the only one who beat him that season in the majors. Nadal & Murray did as well so I don't know that you can use that victory to conclude Federer's superiority on grass courts. In fact, Nadal & Murray beat him again in the 2013 season as well.

Even in his 11 season, fed beat Djokovic at RG and had 2 MPs vs him at the USO.
12 was past his prime fed or at best prime-ish federer vs peak Nole. fed beat him at Wimbledon comfortably in 4 sets.
fed's serve and return stats are both better in their best 5 years at Wimbledon. Obviously fed is significantly better on grass and its not even remotely close.
It honestly annoys me a little bit when people ignore the 12 match and instead focus on matches where fed was 32.5+ which in no way remotely resemble prime federer.

Federer obviously better at Wimbledon. Won 5 in a row and 6 out of 7 Wimbledons, only losing 7th final in 5 sets.
Best 5 years (2003-07) has better service AND return stats than Djokovic in his best 5 year stretch (11-15) or even best 5 years(11-12,14-15,18)

Federer from 2003-07:

Hold% = 94%, Service points won: 72.5%, Break% = 30.3%,return points won = 41%

Tennis Abstract: Roger Federer ATP Match Results, Splits, and Analysis

Djokovic from 11-12,14-15 and 18:

Hold% = 92.1%, Service points won: 71.7%, Break% = 28.3%,return points won = 40.5%

Tennis Abstract: Novak Djokovic ATP Match Results, Splits, and Analysis

 

[Sunny014]

Novak is 1 tier below Federer on Grass and nothing that @Sunny Ali sir tells me will ever convince me that they are in the same tier.

Grass Tiers :

Tier 1 : Federer, Sampras
Tier 2 : Djoker, Becker, Mcenroe, Bjorg
Tier 3 : Edberg, Goran, Nadal of 2008 etc etc
Tier 4 : Murray, Hewitt etc etc

HC tiers :

Tier 1 : Federer. Djokovic
Tier 2 : Sampras, Agassi, , Lendl
Tier 3 : Nadal, Peak Safin, Johnny Mac etc etc

Clay Tiers :

Tier 1 : BOAT Nadal
Bit of a Vacuum
Tier 2 : Bjorg, Peak Gustavo Kuerten, Lendl
Tier 3 : Federer, Djokovic, Wilander, Brugera, Muster etc etc
Tier 4 : Moya, Albert Costa, Gaudio etc etc

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

Novak is 1 tier below Federer on Grass and nothing that @Sunny Ali sir tells me will ever convince me that they are in the same tier.

Grass Tiers :

Tier 1 : Federer, Sampras
Tier 2 : Djoker, Becker, Mcenroe, Bjorg
Tier 3 : Edberg, Goran, Nadal of 2008 etc etc
Tier 4 : Murray, Hewitt etc etc

HC tiers :

Tier 1 : Federer. Djokovic
Tier 2 : Sampras, Agassi, , Lendl
Tier 3 : Nadal, Peak Safin, Johnny Mac etc etc

Clay Tiers :

Tier 1 : BOAT Nadal
Bit of a Vacuum
Tier 2 : Bjorg, Peak Gustavo Kuerten, Lendl
Tier 3 : Federer, Djokovic, Wilander, Brugera, Muster etc etc
Tier 4 : Moya, Albert Costa, Gaudio etc etc

Fair list. I cannot put Muster in the same tier as Wilander on clay though, not with his abysmal FO record. Also Borg is clearly another tier than Lendl and Kuerten. He has 3 more titles and this even though he retired at 25.

 

[Deleted member 744633]

Even in his 11 season, fed beat Djokovic at RG and had 2 MPs vs him at the USO.
12 was past his prime fed or at best prime-ish federer vs peak Nole. fed beat him at Wimbledon comfortably in 4 sets.
fed's serve and return stats are both better in their best 5 years at Wimbledon. Obviously fed is significantly better on grass and its not even remotely close.
It honestly annoys me a little bit when people ignore the 12 match and instead focus on matches where fed was 32.5+ which in no way remotely resemble prime federer.

Federer obviously better at Wimbledon. Won 5 in a row and 6 out of 7 Wimbledons, only losing 7th final in 5 sets.
Best 5 years (2003-07) has better service AND return stats than Djokovic in his best 5 year stretch (11-15) or even best 5 years(11-12,14-15,18)

Federer from 2003-07:

Hold% = 94%, Service points won: 72.5%, Break% = 30.3%,return points won = 41%

Tennis Abstract: Roger Federer ATP Match Results, Splits, and Analysis

Djokovic from 11-12,14-15 and 18:

Hold% = 92.1%, Service points won: 71.7%, Break% = 28.3%,return points won = 40.5%

Tennis Abstract: Novak Djokovic ATP Match Results, Splits, and Analysis

Wonderful post Machan. Compelling argument

 

[Deleted member 744633]

Novak is 1 tier below Federer on Grass and nothing that @Sunny Ali sir tells me will ever convince me that they are in the same tier.

Grass Tiers :

Tier 1 : Federer, Sampras
Tier 2 : Djoker, Becker, Mcenroe, Bjorg
Tier 3 : Edberg, Goran, Nadal of 2008 etc etc
Tier 4 : Murray, Hewitt etc etc

HC tiers :

Tier 1 : Federer. Djokovic
Tier 2 : Sampras, Agassi, , Lendl
Tier 3 : Nadal, Peak Safin, Johnny Mac etc etc

Clay Tiers :

Tier 1 : BOAT Nadal
Bit of a Vacuum
Tier 2 : Bjorg, Peak Gustavo Kuerten, Lendl
Tier 3 : Federer, Djokovic, Wilander, Brugera, Muster etc etc
Tier 4 : Moya, Albert Costa, Gaudio etc etc

Wonderful list Machan

 

[RS]

That's pretty much all this forum was in its first few years.

It was sarc i know why.

 

[Deleted member 744633]

Novak would be weaker physically if we was born 7 years earlier.

The generation which got 6-7 teen years in the 00s is the one which has the baseline bullies.
The gen which was teen in the 90s and turned pro grew up on SNV and everyone including federer is weaker physically compared to the modern 86-88 borns

So Novak would be quite different if he were born 7 years back, he might not have been half the baseliner that he is now.

So what ?
Weeks at 1 is a record held by Conners at 268 while Bjorg had 109 weeks only and we all know who was the open era GOAT before Sampras..... it was Borg and not conners.

Machan, what do you mean so what? These guys play for records. If you have the greatest talent yet have your records broken so quickly, doesn't say much about that talent. In essence we're saying less talented guys are able to surpass your record. Consider Sunny Deol for example. He's the most talented but he's also the most successful

 

[Sunny014]

Machan, what do you mean so what? These guys play for records. If you have the greatest talent yet have your records broken so quickly, doesn't say much about that talent. In essence we're saying less talented guys are able to surpass your record. Consider Sunny Deol for example. He's the most talented but he's also the most successful

Next gen is not strong enough to challege Djokovic, thats why.

Or else we all know Novak had just 6 slams novak had till age 27

 

[abmk]

Machan, what do you mean so what? These guys play for records. If you have the greatest talent yet have your records broken so quickly, doesn't say much about that talent. In essence we're saying less talented guys are able to surpass your record. Consider Sunny Deol for example. He's the most talented but he's also the most successful

arre Raonic-Nishi-Dimi gen ka to aadhe kilo ka bhi haat nahi hai
even gen after that - unko bhi slams mein aadhe kilo ka bhi haat nahi hai

dhai kilo haat to door ki baat hai

isliye tennis ka ye haal hai from 2016 onwards
all 3 have benefitted - but Djoko&Nadal clearly more so than fed.
(Djoko = 7 slams, Nadal = 6 slams, fed = 3 slams)

 

[Deleted member 744633]

arre Raonic-Nishi-Dimi gen ka to aadhe kilo ka bhi haat nahi hai
even gen after that - unko bhi slams mein aadhe kilo ka bhi haat nahi hai

dhai kilo haat to door ki baat hai

isliye tennis ka ye haal hai from 2016 onwards
all 3 have benefitted - but Djoko&Nadal clearly more so than fed.

Machan ... LOL X 10,000 Outstanding! Great post and it wouldn't be an exaggeration if I said I nearly fell off my chair!

 

[Deleted member 744633]

Next gen is not strong enough to challege Djokovic, thats why.

Or else we all know Novak had just 6 slams novak had till age 27

I have no disagreement about the next gen. They need to step up. Look at my post in the other thread in which I mentioned you. I wrote about it.