So I'm a 5.0 player and my serve has always been my achilles heel. I've spent a lot of time practicing recently because I've had more time on my hands and it's a lot better in practice, I'm able to get a pretty decent kick, but when I play competitively it just breaks down. The more competitive the match the worse it gets. It's mostly a softball when I do try to swing out I start double faulting. I know I need to stay loose and all that but hate to double fault. I should add that my game overall is pretty defensive. I know there's a psychological component but I think my question is more what are 1 or 2 tips of things to do or think about in terms of form that might help me overcome this.
Second serve breaks down under pressure
- Thread starter PKorda
- Start date
Mountain Ghost
Professional
If being "Under Pressure" messes with your performance ... that means part of your attention is focused too much on RESULTS (past/future/score) ... and not enough on PROCESS (right here ... right now). This problem typically arises from two primary issues ... (1) - You are "practiced" at caring too much about winning and losing (the score being a mind-distacting quantification of not-happening-now events) ... and/or (2) - you don't have go-to technical reference points that can help to bring your mindful attention back into THIS moment.
I have found that those who focus too much on "results" ... and not enough on process ... never reach the level they dream of ... while those who diligently focus more on process ... wind up having better results.
~ MG
I have found that those who focus too much on "results" ... and not enough on process ... never reach the level they dream of ... while those who diligently focus more on process ... wind up having better results.
~ MG
Dragy
Legend
As an addition to previously said:
- Not diving into detail, revise your overall serving techniques. It’s all - flattish serves, slice serves, topspin serves, kick/twist serve - based on one foundation. Look for any obvious flaws, check the difference in basics between your first (I suppose they are decent, as you only speak about 2nds) and second serves. Post some video here, so we can get some entertainment and elaborate some solutions.
- Practice it more. It helps if you have practice pointplay opportunities where your partners can tolerate some wild serving and double faulting, and generally some non-conventional behavior. So that you can free up and hit those 2 second serves all-out, focuses on process.
- Try some middle-ground serves, like top-slice serves, which are not over-spinny kicks, but rather shaped trajectory. They are easier to produce clean contact, more natural with the swing direction - so good to build up confidence in striking the ball over and over with full racquet speed.
- Not diving into detail, revise your overall serving techniques. It’s all - flattish serves, slice serves, topspin serves, kick/twist serve - based on one foundation. Look for any obvious flaws, check the difference in basics between your first (I suppose they are decent, as you only speak about 2nds) and second serves. Post some video here, so we can get some entertainment and elaborate some solutions.
- Practice it more. It helps if you have practice pointplay opportunities where your partners can tolerate some wild serving and double faulting, and generally some non-conventional behavior. So that you can free up and hit those 2 second serves all-out, focuses on process.
- Try some middle-ground serves, like top-slice serves, which are not over-spinny kicks, but rather shaped trajectory. They are easier to produce clean contact, more natural with the swing direction - so good to build up confidence in striking the ball over and over with full racquet speed.
FiReFTW
Legend
How is any of those going to help if he can hit pretty much all his 2nd serves at will in practice and yet have problems in matches? His problems are not technical they are mental.
Dragy
Legend
You don't know exactly, hence I say "revise", not "your techniques obviously sucks". For example, you can be hitting with suboptimal mechanics, which is exposed the moment you get tense or tired. Or you may be hitting with too much sidespin and not much topspin - again, it works decent when it works, the ball flies high, arcs and lands deep, but get a bit off, and you float it again and again. So it's always good to check your techniques if you have issues in a match, there's a chance it doesn't provide you with enough reliability and margin for error.
Second item is all about mental - getting into serving games with different primary task than winning points. This works perfectly to shift the approach, but some rough time guaranteed, especially if one doesn't get into practice sets with tolerant partners. "Just get that serve in, man!" "Why you keep swinging so violently, aren't we here to play some points, not ace or DF game?" etc.
Third item, again, provides more simple task, mostly taking away clean contact and wierd body alignment issues of extreme spin serving. Which allows for better results and builds up confidence to move on from.
Thanks, I do place a lot of emphasis on winning at the expense of process so you're right on with that comment. Can you elaborate on point 2?
Mountain Ghost
Professional
The first one has to do with how much you care about winning ... which distracts your mind from WHAT you are doing. The second one has to do with having mental focal points that FORCE you to focus on what you are doing ... the "process"!
When you focus on the "score" ... you are basically playing by "feel" ... as there is nothing IN the score that has anything to do with actually hitting THIS ball. But when you have go-to technical reference points ... your mind is forced into focusing on the process that is actually happening.
An example on a serve ... when feeling the "pressure" ... might be to think of tossing high enough and making sure you have a full acceleration and extension UP to the ball. Any reservation ... or hesitation ... as in thinking of a "safer" swing ... will actually hurt your overall stroke. Instead ... by using perhaps a stronger-than-continental grip ... tossing high and not as far in front ... and going for a full-powered and full-form second serve ... even if you don't actually change much of anything technically ... you will be forcing yourself to focus on "process" ... something really HAPPENING ... and it will help you not give the score as much attention ... or distraction energy.
~ MG
FatHead250
Professional
That means you don't have the fundamentals right. A good second serve doesn't break down no matter how shaky you are for the following reason - the faster you swing, the more confidently it lands inside the box. It's very easy to make yourself swing fast when under pressure, but if your motion is such that you can't swing as fast as you can at the ball, you can totally lose the feel on the serve and mess up. You can't mess up full power though. So, my advice to you - work on swinging your second serve in faster. Then you can just lock that motion in place and the only things you can mess up left are toss and your body. Do you experience shakiness in your body when serving in tight situations? You should try and just lock yourself to go through the motion, while swinging very fast at the ball, spinning it in.
Take a look at Federer - the racquet speed on his second serve is always the fastest you can get, he confidently does the same thing over and over, and thats why he never messes it up. Zverev likes to be careful with it and double faults all the time
Take a look at Federer - the racquet speed on his second serve is always the fastest you can get, he confidently does the same thing over and over, and thats why he never messes it up. Zverev likes to be careful with it and double faults all the time
This is very true. When I first started with the ice cream cone tossing grip, it worked like a dream when practicing my serve or playing points without scoring. Under pressure in tight sets I'd sometimes have to toss the ball up 4 times before hitting it. (often still from a suboptimal position). Pressure highlights/exacerbates suspect technique.
AndreDaGamer
Rookie
I think your problem is the mental problem, it was for me, but now mine is much better, what happened for me is that I was so nervous when hitting a second that I swung at bad tosses. Just make sure that you keep practicing your 2nd serve.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 766578
Guest
.
Last edited by a moderator:
liam the shark
Rookie
Start reading about the growth mindset and apply it to tennis. Basically it is focusing on improving and learning rather then results. So for your 2nd serve, instead of focusing on the result of getting it in, focus on hitting it to the best of your abilities and don't overthink it. It has changed me from always playing tight to playing much looser on my strokes and serve. I just focus on doing my best and improving and learning. Embrace the pressure and challenges and be confident in your skill, learn from each second serve you hit, learn from everything you do, and focus on the effort and process of tennis, not wins or losses, or getting it in.
Thanks any reading recommendations?
liam the shark
Rookie
I do not have anything specific on hand but if you look up growth mindset vs fixed mindset there are many articles on it, and there is a TED Talk as well. Thats what helped me most when I was having confidence issues and tightness under pressure.
Steady Eddy
Legend
What's on the line? Are you playing for money, college scholarship, one of the satellite tours? If this is just social/recreational tennis ask yourself what is the "pressure".
No $ is on the line when I play tennis. So I tell myself "it's all practice", takes the pressure away.
No $ is on the line when I play tennis. So I tell myself "it's all practice", takes the pressure away.
I'm just playing socially/ recreationally. I hear what you're saying, but I put a lot of emphasis on winning and can't seem to turn that off.
Yeah pride is always more important than money. I hear what he's saying as well. But someone like Nadal doesn't hate losing because he's missing out on more money. Sure there's more at stake there as far as records/legacy goes, but everyone down to "Mack the hack" (I think I got that name from Brad Gilbert) playing the division 6 final, would prefer to win and consequently feels some degree of pressure when things are tight. But definitely self talk that plays down the importance of the match will be relatively beneficial if you get the yips.
I play a guy who if you put a weak 2nd serve in, he'll hit it for a winner 9/10 times. It helps to play someone like that sometimes, because there's no choice to be made, you have to commit to an aggressive 2nd serve and mix up the direction. I also agree with those who've mentioned having process cues and a routine. I think having a reliable ball toss is critical under pressure.
Last edited:
Steady Eddy
Legend
Enter tournaments, play in some leagues. So those will seem like your "real" matches. All the others are practice matches. And use the practice matches to improve, not to win. If your backhand is weak, then run around your forehand in practice matches. If you don't trust your net game, then start going to the net. The point of tennis is to always be improving, not so much just to win, IMO.
Friedman Whip
Professional
They say you're only as good as your second serve. Apparently you're not that good.
2nd Serve Ace
Hall of Fame
I find that having a repeatable rhythm is helpful sometimes.
For instance, I internally count to myself "1..2..3" and link the count to a certain part of my serve motion. It helps to take a lot of the nervy tension out of the serve.
For instance, I internally count to myself "1..2..3" and link the count to a certain part of my serve motion. It helps to take a lot of the nervy tension out of the serve.
That’s helpful, thanks for contributing.
Friedman Whip
Professional
Just kidding with you. I trust that you have heard that saying about a person's second serve. Nice to know you can take a joke.
pencilcheck
Hall of Fame
Maybe your second serve and maybe even first serve has unstable form that makes it hard for you to be consistent?
Not saying this applies to the OP, but I myself have skewed impressions of my practice sessions and actual match play. When I practice I remember all of my good shots, but forget my shanks. During matches I remember all my shanks, not my good shots. Ultimately, I believe I have nearly equal shanks and good shots in practice as in matches. It tells me that sometimes I have reasonable form and other times it just breaks down. Its a part of learning. I'm at a phase 3 of learning, the conscious competence phase where I have to actively think about what I'm doing to do it well. When I'm tired or doing something so repetitive as in practice, my mind does less well at concentrating and I revert to bad habits. Our goal is to get to the last phase of unconscious competence where we don't have to think about what we're doing to do it correctly, the so called muscle memory.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
My 2 cents is to arrange some practice matches with some lower players if you need to. But you sir get ONE serve. You miss it and you lose the point. Play a few matches with that limitation and I guarantee you will fix your 2nd serve. When you go back to normal 2 serve rules, you will feel very relaxed...
WYK
Hall of Fame
The good thing about a kicker is it gives a margin of error. The bad news is you have to commit to it. You can't do a kicker half arsed. There's not much margin for error there.
Practice your kicker until you stop thinking about it and it just happens. Practice getting it to kick higher and move faster.
Most often for me, tho, is my kicker stops working because I am turning my shoulder too much.
Practice your kicker until you stop thinking about it and it just happens. Practice getting it to kick higher and move faster.
Most often for me, tho, is my kicker stops working because I am turning my shoulder too much.
