What is the safest serve to hit under intense pressure?

[EddieBrock]

Obviously the kick/twist serve is the what most people say and it works great for me most of the time. However, is there a better serve to hit when I'm under intense pressure and just feel a double fault coming on? I've posted before about having problems with getting tight and double faulting and was just wondering if there's another serve I should use when I feel that my body has tightened up and I'm tempted to try an underhand serve just to get it in?

There have been a few matches where I'm serving at 30-40 down 5-6, missed the 1st serve with a bunch of people watching. It's just really hard for me to stay relaxed and loose at that point. Sometimes I've been tempted to do an abbreviated motion with my arm starting up and just tossing up and hitting without using my legs. Would something like a topspin slice be better like the one described here?

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Obviously the kick/twist serve is the what most people say and it works great for me most of the time. However, is there a better serve to hit when I'm under intense pressure and just feel a double fault coming on? I've posted before about having problems with getting tight and double faulting and was just wondering if there's another serve I should use when I feel that my body has tightened up and I'm tempted to try an underhand serve just to get it in?

There have been a few matches where I'm serving at 30-40 down 5-6, missed the 1st serve with a bunch of people watching. It's just really hard for me to stay relaxed and loose at that point. Sometimes I've been tempted to do an abbreviated motion with my arm starting up and just tossing up and hitting without using my legs. Would something like a topspin slice be better like the one described here?

Answer #1: use the serve that you have the most confidence in.

side note: abbreviated motions and slowing down the RHS is definitely not recommended. You paradoxically have less control because there's less spin to bring the ball back down.

You could hit UH for extreme situations [the sun is right in your eye, your shoulder is hurt]; otherwise, I wouldn't lean on it as it will become a crutch.

 

[mad dog1]

Topspin or kick serve...don’t think about the score. Think about the point as any other point to reduce the pressure on yourself. Then play it one point at a time.

 

[Kevo]

Obviously the kick/twist serve is the what most people say and it works great for me most of the time. However, is there a better serve to hit when I'm under intense pressure and just feel a double fault coming on? I've posted before about having problems with getting tight and double faulting and was just wondering if there's another serve I should use when I feel that my body has tightened up and I'm tempted to try an underhand serve just to get it in?

There have been a few matches where I'm serving at 30-40 down 5-6, missed the 1st serve with a bunch of people watching. It's just really hard for me to stay relaxed and loose at that point. Sometimes I've been tempted to do an abbreviated motion with my arm starting up and just tossing up and hitting without using my legs. Would something like a topspin slice be better like the one described here?

Kick serve is the safest under pressure. If you are worried about double faults under pressure, just play a match with nothing but kick serves. Go for the first ones and play it a little less close to the lines on the second ones. Go for kicks at the body on the second ones if you need to. Once you are really comfortable with the kickers you will rarely double fault and your confidence will go up. Even after you are comfortable with them and go back to hitting flat firsts, you can always throw in a kick on the first serve if you are really feeling pressured or winded or whatever.

One season in 4.0 leagues many years ago I made a decision that I wasn't going to hit a flat first serve until I could play a whole match with no double faults. It was a long time ago, but I think it only took me two matches. I also realized kicks can be more effective against some players than flats. It was a really good learning experience for me. I hardly ever think about double faults now, and I probably average 1 or less per set depending on how much I am going for things. Almost never double fault on an important point when I'm down in the count.

 

[Hmgraphite1]

What's said above is the best advice.
An option I employ too regularly is, "I don't care" and "points are worthless".
You don't care if you win or lose, and a point isn't priceless. These thoughts take the pressure away.
You have to believe it, by realizing your improving and better days are ahead. There is a down side to this as you advance but hopefully by then your good and enjoy playing well, win or lose.

 

[LeeD]

Slow, high net clearance top/slice.

 

[Raul_SJ]

There have been a few matches where I'm serving at 30-40 down 5-6, missed the 1st serve with a bunch of people watching. It's just really hard for me to stay relaxed and loose at that point.

Some will advise you not to think about the score; treat it like any other point. What I think that advice translates to is, "You're gonna miss some unforced errors in the match since that is the nature of tennis. So treat all points the same, whether it's 30-40 in Game 1 or 30-40 Match Point and let the misses fall where they may". That is a viable option as long as you're prepared to accept the DF at Match Point.

As you point out, it is extremely difficult not to view that Match Point differently. It is more important. You need to get it in. So the other approach is to be more conservative and make sure you get it in. That is a viable option, especially at lower levels where the weaker serves are not punished.

 

[mad dog1]

Some will advise you not to think about the score; treat it like any other point. What I think that advice translates to is, "You're gonna miss some unforced errors in the match since that is the nature of tennis. So treat all points the same, whether it's 30-40 in Game 1 or 30-40 Match Point and let the misses fall where they may". That is a viable option as long as you're prepared to accept the DF at Match Point.

As you point out, it is extremely difficult not to view that Match Point differently. It is more important. You need to get it in. So the other approach is to be more conservative and make sure you get it in. That is a viable option, especially at lower levels where the weaker serves are not punished.

What if it’s 0-40? You’re facing 3 match points. Huge pressure! What now?

 

[Hmgraphite1]

What if it’s 0-40? You’re facing 3 match points. Huge pressure! What now?

This is a real opportunity, once you can come back from this deficit you'll have a different view of your game. I've done it with serving but not grinding it out, which would be more satisfying. Doubled on match point a few times but would have just prolonged the inevitable.

 

[mad dog1]

This is a real opportunity, once you can come back from this deficit you'll have a different view of your game. I've done it with serving but not grinding it out, which would be more satisfying. Doubled on match point a few times but would have just prolonged the inevitable.

Yup. Once you can hold serve from 0-40, your mindset does change and you concentrate playing each point one at a time.

 

[golden chicken]

I've always had a natural slice serve that I then learned how to modify to hit flat. Then I developed the kick serve. If I need the serve to go in, I hit a kick serve, but I've gotten over the anxiety that causes most people to tighten up and slow their swings down. If I still had that problem, I'd try to hit a slice serve because it's the most natural for me.

 

[FiReFTW]

@mad dog1 is right, when I had little matchplay experience and pressure experience I completely crumbled mentally and got tight, nervious and double faulted or tightly pushed the ball in and then made errors after.

As I play more and more and expose miself to these pressure situatuons im getting better and better at them since ive been in them more and more times.

Now when im down 15:40 I dont think about losing the point and the game and being tight, I feel relaxed and think about winning this next point and focus on doing that and going for it and playing relaxed and more often than not I usually get the score back and even win the game.

My mindset tends to be mhm now im gonna serve my favorite serve that I trust the most and win the point.. and also.. my opponent has a big chance now at 15:40 so I know he has to be thinking about that and be a bit nervious and I know if I win the next point he will have only 1 chance before deuce so he will lose some confidence again and then be under pressure to win that point.

So that kind of makes me feel relaxed because I know I have good chances and feel confident, so I tend to swing relaxed and play these points relaxed already.

Of course if im 3:5 down and 0:40 down then the pressure is higher and im tight a bit aswell still, but that will all improve aswell over time.

My most confident serve from deuce is slice out wide, from ad its down the T slice or out wide topspin.

 

[EddieBrock]

Answer #1: use the serve that you have the most confidence in.

side note: abbreviated motions and slowing down the RHS is definitely not recommended. You paradoxically have less control because there's less spin to bring the ball back down.

You could hit UH for extreme situations [the sun is right in your eye, your shoulder is hurt]; otherwise, I wouldn't lean on it as it will become a crutch.

I've done UH in singles a few times when I just needed to get the serve in and didn't feel I could make a regular serve, but in a league doubles match it feels especially wrong. The only reason I was thinking about the abbreviated motion is that I thought maybe it would be easier to feel the contact and swing, but as you point out in may lead to a slower swing. It's also not something I practice.

 

[EddieBrock]

What's said above is the best advice.
An option I employ too regularly is, "I don't care" and "points are worthless".
You don't care if you win or lose, and a point isn't priceless. These thoughts take the pressure away.
You have to believe it, by realizing your improving and better days are ahead. There is a down side to this as you advance but hopefully by then your good and enjoy playing well, win or lose.

What I noticed is that if I feel good about my serve going into a match and I start serving well and don't think about the serve it's not an issue. Unfortunately what's happened a few times is I get up in a game like 40-0 and start thinking "thank goodness my serve is working. I wonder what I'm doing well now so I can keep doing it" or something like that. Then my serve falls apart.

The other problem is that I've been playing more doubles and I just feel a lot of pressure to not let my partner or league team down. Plus my partner will usually say something like "just get the serve in" or "relax and just spin it in", which doesn't help and makes me think about it more.

 

[EddieBrock]

I've always had a natural slice serve that I then learned how to modify to hit flat. Then I developed the kick serve. If I need the serve to go in, I hit a kick serve, but I've gotten over the anxiety that causes most people to tighten up and slow their swings down. If I still had that problem, I'd try to hit a slice serve because it's the most natural for me.

As I put in the OP my kick serve is great and consistent when I'm relaxed and it's what I use for my 2nd serve. I was thinking that a slice is more natural though when I'm nervous since my tendency is to open up my shoulders and look at where I want the ball to go.

 

[EddieBrock]

Today I practiced my serve just again the wall and filmed it. I tried to put myself into a mindset like I was under pressure and told myself I needed to hit a good serve for the video. One thing I noticed is I lock my left arm since I'm focusing on guiding the toss. Something else is I toss too low and rush the swing. When I was relaxed my tossing arm was loose and I tossed high enough to let it drop. So that might be what happens to me when I get tight. Now I need to figure out how to fix it.

 

[Hmgraphite1]

What I noticed is that if I feel good about my serve going into a match and I start serving well and don't think about the serve it's not an issue. Unfortunately what's happened a few times is I get up in a game like 40-0 and start thinking "thank goodness my serve is working. I wonder what I'm doing well now so I can keep doing it" or something like that. Then my serve falls apart.

The other problem is that I've been playing more doubles and I just feel a lot of pressure to not let my partner or league team down. Plus my partner will usually say something like "just get the serve in" or "relax and just spin it in", which doesn't help and makes me think about it more.

Yeah, I let my doubles partner know, "I don't care", don't like doubles much cause I like to serve and hit more , I apply no pressure to my partners game. I take no pressure from my partner.

 

[WestboroChe]

A lot of good advice here.

I think the safest percentage wise is a kick or slice serve into the body.

To help keep myself loose I sometimes sing County Grammar by Nelly and shake my booty while getting ready to start my service motion. It helps.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Today I practiced my serve just again the wall and filmed it. I tried to put myself into a mindset like I was under pressure and told myself I needed to hit a good serve for the video. One thing I noticed is I lock my left arm since I'm focusing on guiding the toss. Something else is I toss too low and rush the swing. When I was relaxed my tossing arm was loose and I tossed high enough to let it drop. So that might be what happens to me when I get tight. Now I need to figure out how to fix it.

Make sure you're not holding your breath.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Plus my partner will usually say something like "just get the serve in" or "relax and just spin it in", which doesn't help and makes me think about it more.

Show your well-intentioned but unhelpful partner this [starting at 1:47]:

 

[Kevo]

What I noticed is that if I feel good about my serve going into a match and I start serving well and don't think about the serve it's not an issue. Unfortunately what's happened a few times is I get up in a game like 40-0 and start thinking "thank goodness my serve is working. I wonder what I'm doing well now so I can keep doing it" or something like that. Then my serve falls apart.

The other problem is that I've been playing more doubles and I just feel a lot of pressure to not let my partner or league team down. Plus my partner will usually say something like "just get the serve in" or "relax and just spin it in", which doesn't help and makes me think about it more.

Part of your problem seems to be paralysis by analysis. When you get in a match and serve you want to simply decide what serve to hit and then hit it. You don't want to be thinking about technicals while serving. That's for the practice court.

I like to think of matches as a kind of practice too. It's more a mental practice than anything else though. You don't want to be thinking about technicals. What you want to do is think about strategy and shot selection. So for serve practice in matches you want to pick your serve and then hit it. When you're up in the count work on more difficult shots and just accept that sometimes they won't work. When down in the count use safer shots. But don't think about how to make a shot safer, just use a safer shot. For instance a body serve instead of a wide serve or aiming up the T. This will train your match mentality to not worry so much about how your shots are working and what technical deficiencies you might have on the day, but how to use what you have on any given day to win points.

In your particular case you need to build confidence with your serve which is why I suggested using only kicks for several matches or until you are fully confident in it. Just focus on when to hit safer kicks and when to go for bigger forcing kicks. After a while you'll be able to go for bigger kicks even on second serves and you'll start being more successful with it.

One of my favorite things to do is mix in heavy kicks on first serves just to throw off the returner. One of the best advantages to serving is being able to keep the returner guessing. That's worth an extra 10mph or more on your serve. Moving those kicks around and varying the spin, speed, and height of the ball will all contribute to making your 75mph serve seem like an 85 or 90mph serve.

 

[bitcoinoperated]

Safest is probably a pancake.

 

[EddieBrock]

Show your well-intentioned but unhelpful partner this [starting at 1:47]:

This made me laugh so hard. That's exactly what happens. I'll also hear things like "we've worked really hard to get here. Just get this serve in and win this point".

 

[EddieBrock]

Part of your problem seems to be paralysis by analysis. When you get in a match and serve you want to simply decide what serve to hit and then hit it. You don't want to be thinking about technicals while serving. That's for the practice court.

I like to think of matches as a kind of practice too. It's more a mental practice than anything else though. You don't want to be thinking about technicals. What you want to do is think about strategy and shot selection. So for serve practice in matches you want to pick your serve and then hit it. When you're up in the count work on more difficult shots and just accept that sometimes they won't work. When down in the count use safer shots. But don't think about how to make a shot safer, just use a safer shot. For instance a body serve instead of a wide serve or aiming up the T. This will train your match mentality to not worry so much about how your shots are working and what technical deficiencies you might have on the day, but how to use what you have on any given day to win points.

In your particular case you need to build confidence with your serve which is why I suggested using only kicks for several matches or until you are fully confident in it. Just focus on when to hit safer kicks and when to go for bigger forcing kicks. After a while you'll be able to go for bigger kicks even on second serves and you'll start being more successful with it.

One of my favorite things to do is mix in heavy kicks on first serves just to throw off the returner. One of the best advantages to serving is being able to keep the returner guessing. That's worth an extra 10mph or more on your serve. Moving those kicks around and varying the spin, speed, and height of the ball will all contribute to making your 75mph serve seem like an 85 or 90mph serve.

In a match when I'm having trouble you're right I start thinking about technical things. Am I swinging correctly, how is my positioning, am I keeping my body sideways, is my head up, etc. I practiced today and will practice a few more times before my next match. I like the idea of just aiming for a body serve. Normally I'm thinking about kicking to the backhand.

 

[Searah]

any tutorials you would consider the best tutorial for a kick serve?
the whole 7 to 1 thing just doesn't work for me

 

[PMChambers]

Kick serve +1

 

[hurworld]

Underarm serve.

 

[ChaelAZ]

125+ down the T.


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[FiReFTW]

125+ down the T.


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Too risky, 123 is better.

 

[EddieBrock]

125+ down the T.


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So take something off my normal 155 down the T?

 

[mad dog1]

So take something off my normal 155 down the T?

Exactly. Better to sacrifice some speed for placement!

 

[EddieBrock]

any tutorials you would consider the best tutorial for a kick serve?
the whole 7 to 1 thing just doesn't work for me

There are a number of tutorials on youtube.

Essential Tennis progression

Ramon Osa

Jeff Salzenstein

Daily Tennis Lesson has a multi part progression, but you have to send your email to get it

 

[Kevo]

any tutorials you would consider the best tutorial for a kick serve?
the whole 7 to 1 thing just doesn't work for me

Are you sure that's what you're doing? It's kind of a super simple way to describe it, but if you understand how to hit a topspin forehand you understand the basic principles behind a simple topspin kick serve. The trick is learning how to get that brushing action of the strings to happen over your head. Think about it from the perspective of the ball and try to reproduce the same string ball interaction that you get on a topspin forehand.

Start slowly and deliberately and keep that pace for a while once you start to have a little success in generating topspin on your serve. Most people try to go too far too fast and end up bringing in parts of their flat serve as soon as they try to pick up the pace. Then they get frustrated.

 

[Harry_Wild]

An ace or an unreturnable!

 

[Morch Us]

There you go. The best solution is not to miss the first serve at that point....
However reliable your second serve is, forcing yourself into a second serve in that situation itself is not recommended. To many this may actually mean going to that first serve with a second serve mentality.

I knew a guy who happen to get a lot of second serve aces, and once I asked him for the explanation and I found his answer interesting, and it seems to work for him. But not really sure whether that is for everyone. What he said is that he used to get too tight on second serves, and so decided to not come down to a second serve ever, and does his first serve always with a second serve mentality. But when he misses it, and forced to do a second serve, he goes with a mentality that he already did and missed his second serve, and so it is already technically a double fault. This mentality apparently allows him to swing free without reducing racket speed and without worrying about missing it in the second serves.

Arguably, I am not sure whether this is holding him back of his full serve potential (even though his first serves still have some good kick).

There have been a few matches where I'm serving at 30-40 down 5-6, missed the 1st serve

 

[EddieBrock]

There you go. The best solution is not to miss the first serve at that point....
However reliable your second serve is, forcing yourself into a second serve in that situation itself is not recommended. To many this may actually mean going to that first serve with a second serve mentality.

I knew a guy who happen to get a lot of second serve aces, and once I asked him for the explanation and I found his answer interesting, and it seems to work for him. But not really sure whether that is for everyone. What he said is that he used to get too tight on second serves, and so decided to not come down to a second serve ever, and does his first serve always with a second serve mentality. But when he misses it, and forced to do a second serve, he goes with a mentality that he already did and missed his second serve, and so it is already technically a double fault. This mentality apparently allows him to swing free without reducing racket speed and without worrying about missing it in the second serves.

Arguably, I am not sure whether this is holding him back of his full serve potential (even though his first serves still have some good kick).

When I get to that point I'm really trying to not miss my first serve, but I usually do. Sometimes it feels like hitting the ball with a club, othertimes I don't feel anything wrong with the serve other than I miss it long or wide. The last couple days I worked on my serve and have been doing kick serves almost exclusively, with an occasional slice thrown in just so I remind myself I can still hit it.

I have a doubles match coming up soon and will try and do kick serves closer to the line on 1st and towards the middle of the box on 2nd serves. If I'm way up in the game or feeling extra confident I'm going to hit slice/flat 1st serves just to mix things up. Any important point I'm going to do kick serve towards the middle of the box. I'm also fully committed to hit the serve at full speed with my full motion. I'm not going to think about underhand serves or just using my arm or starting with my arm up and just tossing or anything like that. My serve has been amazing the last few days. Let's see how I do in a real match.

 

[mcs1970]

There are a number of tutorials on youtube.

Rather than the kick serve tutorial from Ramon, take a look at his video for depth control. I've worked hard to get a solid 2nd serve. However, lately, the different iterations in this video is what I've been working on constantly. I look at senior players and they don't seem to serve with blistering pace, but they can place the ball on a dime in the service box: