Serve Trophy pose

[nothinButTennis]

I'm interested in knowing if there is any benefit (one over other) in adopting to either of trophy pose.
Roger - Racquet is facing side fence
Roddick - Racquet is tilted to net post(pic 2 & 3).

 

[LeeD]

Almost everything done by man has little differences depending on body type, athletics, how it was taught, and preferences.
We are not all exactly the same build even if we're the same weight and height.
"What works for ME" is the operative phrase.

 

[2HBH-DTL]

makes no difference since the racquet drops will be somewhat identical. trophy poses will all vary and i don't think there is an advantage on one over the other.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I'm interested in knowing if there is any benefit (one over other) in adopting to either of trophy pose.
Roger - Racquet is facing side fence
Roddick - Racquet is tilted to net post(pic 2 & 3).

If what you take out of analysis of the two trophy positions is a difference in racket angle, you've missed the whole point of the exercise. The fact that they are different proves that they are irrelevant. Look at what is the same between those two poses. That is where you find the relevant things to work on.

Look a the deep knee bends, the hip pushed into the court and toss arm stretched high, tilting the shoulders. Look a the elbow bent at 90 degrees. Look at how the shoulders are rotated so the back almost faces the net. These are the things you want to recreate in your trophy position.

Every tennis pro hits balls differently than any other, but they all have certain fundamental similarities. Find those fundamental similarities and work on them. You are not trying to replicate another person's movements, you are trying to fit their fundamentals into your bodies abilities.

 

[2HBH-DTL]

If what you take out of analysis of the two trophy positions is a difference in racket angle, you've missed the whole point of the exercise. The fact that they are different proves that they are irrelevant. Look at what is the same between those two poses. That is where you find the relevant things to work on.

Look a the deep knee bends, the hip pushed into the court and toss arm stretched high, tilting the shoulders. Look a the elbow bent at 90 degrees. Look at how the shoulders are rotated so the back almost faces the net. These are the things you want to recreate in your trophy position.

Every tennis pro hits balls differently than any other, but they all have certain fundamental similarities. Find those fundamental similarities and work on them. You are not trying to replicate another person's movements, you are trying to fit their fundamentals into your bodies abilities.

well put ^^^

 

[nothinButTennis]

If what you take out of analysis of the two trophy positions is a difference in racket angle, you've missed the whole point of the exercise. The fact that they are different proves that they are irrelevant. Look at what is the same between those two poses. That is where you find the relevant things to work on.

Look a the deep knee bends, the hip pushed into the court and toss arm stretched high, tilting the shoulders. Look a the elbow bent at 90 degrees. Look at how the shoulders are rotated so the back almost faces the net. These are the things you want to recreate in your trophy position.

Every tennis pro hits balls differently than any other, but they all have certain fundamental similarities. Find those fundamental similarities and work on them. You are not trying to replicate another person's movements, you are trying to fit their fundamentals into your bodies abilities.

I understand there are other key aspects that are significant for serve but in this thread Im more interested in racquet face angle.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I understand there are other key aspects that are significant for serve but in this thread Im more interested in racquet face angle.

Whoosh.

Racket angle is obviously a personal variable that doesn't infer an advantage from one serve to another, so why are you interested? If it's meaningless, why put any emphasis on it at all?

 

[nothinButTennis]

Whoosh.

Racket angle is obviously a personal variable that doesn't infer an advantage from one serve to another, so why are you interested? If it's meaningless, why put any emphasis on it at all?

I thought this forum is meant for discussion and hear different people's opinion.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I thought this forum is meant for discussion and hear different people's opinion.

I suppose. I could start a thread about why Roddick's front foot is one inch from the service line when Roger's is 1/2", but is that really a great use of my or anyone else's time?

Most of the "Why does this guy do this while this guy does that" threads on this forum are pointless exercises in over-analysis. Everyone is different and therefore will have their own idiosyncracies. It behooves us to always try to find the similarities and focus on those rather than nitpick slight variations on a theme.

Forest for the trees and all that..

 

[LeeD]

I understand there are other key aspects that are significant for serve but in this thread Im more interested in racquet face angle.

The only important part of "racket face angle", is during the moment of contact. Backswing, drop, trophy, loop doesn't matter at all, as that can be individual. Contact point is the only thing that determines where the ball is going.

 

[nothinButTennis]

The only important part of "racket face angle", is during the moment of contact. Backswing, drop, trophy, loop doesn't matter at all, as that can be individual. Contact point is the only thing that determines where the ball is going

Thanks, I'm of same opinion but wanted to throw this out to hear from other folks to see if there is something more to do.

 

[LeeD]

When trying to improve a stroke, isn't it MOST important, possibly VITAL, to know where you're starting from? Only a video of yourself serving can provide such facts.
Dr. Ivo Karlovic has a great serve, but you wouldn't copy his.
Milos has a great serve.
Isner has a great serve.
Pete Sampras had a great serve.
Goran had a great serve.
Yet, all were very different in almost every aspect, from toss height, contact point, amount of movement forwards, amount of twist/rotation, grip, and every conceivable criteria.

 

[SinjinCooper]

The trophy position, and all other types of take backs, are meant to set the upper arm in the position it will remain in through contact, while simultaneously putting the forearm, wrist, and racquet into positions that allow them to move effectively into a good racquet drop.

Plenty of ways to skin that cat, and the angle of the racquet face doesn't affect it much, so long as you maintain a relaxed wrist.

 

[JohnYandell]

Guys,

There is research that pertains. First if you look at Roger in high speed video, he is not at the so-called trophy position at the "classic" moment--that is with his tossing arm fully extended and knees fully bent. His racket is a little to his right and the face is closed a few degrees. Why? The leg drive creates external or backward rotation of the arm in the shoulder joint. Coming from a little further away enhances this. Sampras had a similar position.

Roddick is the mutant extreme. Being way over to his right he can still make the racket drop position on time. That sideways position increases the external backward rotation even more. Isner's position is similar to Roddick.

It's a question of whether you can really make your racket drop position. Most players who have copied Roddick--including some top 50 players I have worked with--have actually hurt their motion and reduced ball speed. The classic trophy position with the racket tip on edge and the arm behind the torso may work better for many. If you really can make your deepest possible drop then sure experiment with moving it in the direction of Fed or Pete. Would not advise pretending you have Andy Roddick's shoulder.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Roddick doesn't really have a trophy position. At least not in the classic sense. When his left arm is extended (near vertical) and his knees have achieved maximum flexion, his racket and forearm are not in the trophy position. In the images below we see that his right forearm is nearly horizontal rather than close to vertical as we see with a conventional trophy.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4088/5173353980_08e051ae33_b.jpg
​

From the position shown above, his arm/racket went thru the the trophy phase very quickly. This enabled him to serve with a lot of heat (at times, 140+ mph or even 150+ mph). However, it may have limited him in other respects. He did not have the variety of a Federer or a Sampras serve. Perhaps less disguise. But he was extremely consistent with his big booming serve and won a very high % of his service games.