Sharp angle cross courts

[Dan Huben]

Edited to make me seem smarter

When I hit cc so ball goes off court at hard angles, I've been told I overhit. I'm glad for this advice because I can't tell when the ball goes 30 feet long.

Watching the pros, I'm no pro, they seem to really go after these angles with fast balls. But are they hitting that hard and fast or is an illusion? Are they hitting as hard as with a thru crt winner? To me since it looks like they do, with tons of spin. I can't hit that hard, but I can't seem to generate enough spin without killing my wrist and then the ball only goes out by twenty feet.

Am I over hitting based on trick if the camera. The ball travels a shorter distance and it crosses more lines when going off the court. Wondering if all of these points of reference have contributed to me thinking better players hit with abandon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FiReFTW]

You just need more topspin not less racquet speed, more steep upward swing angle for more topspin and slightly more closed racquet face.

 

[ChaelAZ]

With angles you usually don't need to bash the ball, so if you are hitting long right now maybe dial your stroke back to get a feel for the foot work to get in position, the contact point, and the overall stroke. Then ramp it up as you get reps under your belt.

 

[Stupendous1HBH]

Windshield wiper it. Still can have fast racquet head speed but learn to brush it more and very quickly. That will allow the ball to come up and down quickly and still land in.

 

[LeeD]

Short CC's go slow, so hit slow balls with good spin, the more the better, if you can still control it.
Even slice works, but slice allows the balanced netman to retrieve it from a defensive position.

 

[FiReFTW]

Short CC's go slow, so hit slow balls with good spin, the more the better, if you can still control it.
Even slice works, but slice allows the balanced netman to retrieve it from a defensive position.

Hitting slow balls is deceiving advice, the OP has to understand that he should swing FAST, but put more of the racquet speed into topspin than driving the ball.

 

[5263]

When I hit cc so ball goes off court I've been told I overhit. I'm glad for this advice because I can't tell when the ball goes 30 feet long.

Watching the pros, I'm no pro, they seem to bash the ball sideways. But are they hitting that hard and fast or is an illusion with respect to their ground velocities.

The ball travels a shorter distance and it crosses more lines. Wondering if all of these points of reference have contributed to me thinking better players hit with abandon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sharper angles are generally hit like a "dipper" Fh. Take a search on "practice for Smarter Targets" thread to get some ideas about how to create angles safely.

 

[LeeD]

Hitting slow balls is deceiving advice, the OP has to understand that he should swing FAST, but put more of the racquet speed into topspin than driving the ball.

Only for YOUR way of thinking and hitting. Me, I alternate between heavy spin, slow ball speeds with lighter BACKspin, slow ball speeds. For for a outright winner, the other for a teaser.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Only for YOUR way of thinking and hitting. Me, I alternate between heavy spin, slow ball speeds with lighter BACKspin, slow ball speeds. For for a outright winner, the other for a teaser.

I don't follow you: why would you opt for a slow ball if you can hit a fast one? What would a slow ball accomplish? Unless you're trying to tire out your opponent by extending the point?

 

[LeeD]

A "teaser" is a ball hit to entice the opponent to make a good shot out of a bad situation. It's much higher percentage to slice a low sharp CC past the netman, than to hit a 80mph screamer past him at the same spot.
Plus, when you hit a screaming meenie winner, the point is over, period. When you hit a slow teasing ball, even after the point is over, he's thinking about how clumsy his reply was, how he's gonna hit the next one better, how to defend that slow easy ball, and you NOW can hit the screaming winner.
You gotta mess with their heads, besides just win the point.

 

[Stupendous1HBH]

You gotta mess with their heads, besides just win the point.

Idk if that needs to be the goal in 4.5 tennis IMO. You get a putaway shot, you put it away. You don't need to hit 2-3 extra shots to "mess" with your opponent. That kinda stuff can back fire. Why not just end the point when you can?

 

[LeeD]

Idk if that needs to be the goal in 4.5 tennis IMO. You get a putaway shot, you put it away. You don't need to hit 2-3 extra shots to "mess" with your opponent. That kinda stuff can back fire. Why not just end the point when you can?

Because you can't.
You can't just decide to hit a screaming topspin sharp angle CC winner, and produce it on the spot, each and every time.
However, you can decide to hit a slow low sinking slice sharp angle CC shot, because it's part of your slice backhand practice, and is much easier and more consistent to hit than the equivilent topspin shot.
Now, those of you who can't slice effectively need not worry about hitting sharp angle CC shots consistently.

 

[Stupendous1HBH]

Because you can't.
You can't just decide to hit a screaming topspin sharp angle CC winner, and produce it on the spot, each and every time.
However, you can decide to hit a slow low sinking slice sharp angle CC shot, because it's part of your slice backhand practice, and is much easier and more consistent to hit than the equivilent topspin shot.
Now, those of you who can't slice effectively need not worry about hitting sharp angle CC shots consistently.

I wasn't saying you should go for all out winners at random points during a rally. I was saying if you got a short ball or putaway shot that you can attack, put it away. There's no need to hit 1 or 2 extra shots if you don't need to. If you need to approach using a slice to get into net to put you into a winning position that is one thing or if you're opponent sucks at moving vertical, then hit a short slice or drop shot to win the point.

 

[LeeD]

I wasn't saying you should go for all out winners at random points during a rally. I was saying if you got a short ball or putaway shot that you can attack, put it away. There's no need to hit 1 or 2 extra shots if you don't need to. If you need to approach using a slice to get into net to put you into a winning position that is one thing or if you're opponent sucks at moving vertical, then hit a short slice or drop shot to win the point.

I was thinking passing shots, two netmen in volleying position, me at the baseline and getting a backhand shot. My slices are low and have good direction. My topspin passing shots good up the middle, but not great for low short angles sharp CC. Are yours?

 

[Stupendous1HBH]

I was thinking passing shots, two netmen in volleying position, me at the baseline and getting a backhand shot. My slices are low and have good direction. My topspin passing shots good up the middle, but not great for low short angles sharp CC. Are yours?

I play singles so I don't have to focus on 2 guys at the net.

Anyway, I can slice low if I want but that's only during a normal rally shot. If the dude is up at the net I'm not going to be slicing it. It's either going to be a hard flat or topspin shot down the line or CC or the occasional bullet to the heart right at them.

But to answer you end question, yes I'd say my short topspin dipping CC shots are pretty decent. I use a semi western grip and generate good RHS along with "whip" action with the windshield wiper. I like my odds in a short net game where I need to let the ball drop and opt for a short groundstroke.

 

[LeeD]

Approach shots are generally sliced, so a slice passing shot is a high percentage shot.
If a player uses a topspin approach shot, he's probably not great at net, so any bullet into his court does the job.
And if the player intended to hit a topspin winner before he approach's net position, he probably knows what he's doing, and will probably look for a higher passing shot to volley.
When you hit topspin, it's harder to consistently keep the ball low, then slicing a low ball.

 

[Stupendous1HBH]

Pros hit topspin approaches all the time so does that make the top players terrible at the net? No. Slice or topspin approach doesn't matter much as long as each of them are executed properly and set you up into a winning position. I can just as easily hit an inside out approach forehand that sends them scrambling to get to it or hit a backhand slice CC or DTL which forces them to hit up hopefully allowing for an easy volley.

How many pros do you see consistency hit slice passing shots? 95% of them are hitting topspin drives that are either meant to go clear past them or dip down at the shoe laces. They're not going to be slicing. Not at that level.

 

[LeeD]

Pros hit topspin approaches all the time so does that make the top players terrible at the net? No. Slice or topspin approach doesn't matter much as long as each of them are executed properly and set you up into a winning position. I can just as easily hit an inside out approach forehand that sends them scrambling to get to it or hit a backhand slice CC or DTL which forces them to hit up hopefully allowing for an easy volley.

How many pros do you see consistency hit slice passing shots? 95% of them are hitting topspin drives that are either meant to go clear past them or dip down at the shoe laces. They're not going to be slicing. Not at that level.

And YOU play against the pros all the time?
That's what it comes down to. Who do YOU, and I, play against? I"m 4.0, and most 4.0's who try to crush a topspin approach lose to me badly. 4.5's can beat me with a topspin approach for sure, but they're 4.5.

 

[Stupendous1HBH]

I'm a 4.5 and play with 4.5 and 5.0 players.

I would say 55 to 60% of my approach shots either forehand or backhand are topspin to be honest. The other 40 to 45% of the time I'll use slice but it's only on backhand. I don't have a slice drive shot on the forehand. I just use aggressive spin and pace instead.

 

[LeeD]

Right.
So, when your opponent approach's with topspin, you hit topspin passing shots.
BUT, when the opponent, who is also 4.5, approach's with slice, you have a lower percentage of success hitting with topspin, so you hit .....what?

 

[Stupendous1HBH]

BUT, when the opponent, who is also 4.5, approach's with slice, you have a lower percentage of success hitting with topspin, so you hit .....what?

I rip a topspin passing shot... or throw in an occasional topspin lob but I'm not going to hit a slice backhand passing shot against a good 4.5 player who approached with topspin or slice. Hitting a slice passing shot at 4.5 or 5.0 level is not going to be in your favor. You're better off hitting a hard passer down the lines or cross court, right at them or get it down at their feet.

 

[LeeD]

So, you're going for a lower percentage shot!
It's commonly known that when an opponent slices a hard low skidding shot at you, your safest and highest percentage reply is a slice.
HIS slice goes about knee high or lower to you, skidding a foot, but also some off to the side with a dead ball spin effect. Against that ball, EVERYONE knows it's easier and safer to slice it back than to "rip a topspin passing shot"......
Not everyone, just the majority.

 

[Stupendous1HBH]

So, you're going for a lower percentage shot!
It's commonly known that when an opponent slices a hard low skidding shot at you, your safest and highest percentage reply is a slice.
HIS slice goes about knee high or lower to you, skidding a foot, but also some off to the side with a dead ball spin effect. Against that ball, EVERYONE knows it's easier and safer to slice it back than to "rip a topspin passing shot"......
Not everyone, just the majority.

Ask any decent level 4.5 or 5.0 player. You were implying if someone was hitting a slice approach shot and coming into net, what would the baseliner hit? Answer in most cases would be a topspin passing shot NOT a slice shot. You're asking to be punished by hitting a slice shot when the dude is already at net. From baseline to baseline, you can do either or. Slice it back 100 times if you want. Or hit topspin. Doesn't matter.

I guarentee you that if you feed a good 4.5 or 5.0 player a slice shot back as your "passing shot" they're going to be ready to knock that schit off with a volley and end the point. Hit a hard topspin passing shot and it's a different story.

Slice lob is different in case you are running out of position and have to play defense to stay in the point but you wouldn't hit a "normal" slice ball to a net person.

 

[LeeD]

Matt L would try to crush a topspin shot. He's 24
Yaz would try both topspin, first choice, and low sharp angle slice, because he can slice.
Vitamin L would hit topspin, but he's 25.
Dan Le would hit topspin, same age.
Volynets would hit topspin, he's 28.
Noah would try topspin first, but on a run slice, short angle low.
All 3 ex A, or 5.5+ level player's I play with would use slice, but sometimes hit topspin right AT me, and only with feet set and ready.
Those are all 4.5 to USTA 5.0, to ex OPEN level player's.
Youngsters know only topspin. Older's can hit both, and have a choice of either.
Obviously, you are a youngster.

 

[Stupendous1HBH]

You're assuming I have no idea how to slice lol. And you know my game and how I play it? I can slice when I want but choose not to because that isn't my style of play. And if 29 is a youngster then so be it. I'm a youngster who knows only topspin.

If you were in a baseline rally and your opponent hit a topspin approach shot, what would your next shot be? (Given that you had a decent amount of time to setup for the shot.)

 

[LeeD]

You probably only use a slice as a last ditch stay in the point shot. You probably don't use the slice as an offensive weapon to set yourself up for your following shot.
Ever watch ATP tennis? While the majority just pound topspin shots, you see Federer, and even topspin master's Gasquet, Almagro, Wawrinka, hit a slice to vary the pace and spin, just to test the footwork of the opponent, not expecting a winner shot from the slice.
Here, we're talking sharp angle CC short low shot. If you can hit it against slice and topspin every time, go for it. That's your shot.
But, if you think about it, varying it with a short low heavy sliced sharp angle CC would add another dimension to your game, causing more thought from your opponent, which is a good thing.
It's just like your serve. You don't just hit ONE kind of serve to ONE location. You vary your flats, slices, top/slices, and kick locations. And you don't go for a winner on every serve.

 

[Stupendous1HBH]

I don't disagree with you about varying up strokes and hitting some slice to throw in variation but somehow this got on the topic of how a topspin passing shot is "low percentage" when someone hits a slice to you and approaches behind it which isn't the case at all. Topspin passing shots can be very consistent. Every player and their game is different. If you like to slice and get into net and not use that much topspin that's great but my style is probably very different from yours.

 

[LeeD]

In a situation where the opponent is at net position, the sharp angle, low underspin CC shot is usually not the first choice of shot.
Obviously, the first choice depends on a few things.
But, there's the lob, CC or DTL, over the net person's head.
There's the normal hard low dipping CC pass attempt.
There's the DTL topspin pass.
There's the bullet into the hitting side pocket of the opponent.
So, knowing that, and seeing all the possible choices, which is the most consistent and would work most often against most opponent's?
Mine thinking is the deep CC lob, first and foremost.
My least practiced is the short angle topspin CC pass.

 

[Dan R]

I think there's some situational dependencies with these shots. If I'm not sure I can get the ball by my opponent I'll take pace and spin off of these shots in favor of getting the ball further up the side line. I don't really care if my opponent gets to the ball because the ball will be at their feet by the time they get there and they can't do anything with it. The goal is to get the ball up and down quickly. A ball hit with more spin and pace in this situation will actually be easier for them because it will kick up and give them more time to get there and get there in a better position.

If I think I can hit it off the court and by them then I will put some spin and pace on it.

 

[FiReFTW]

In a situation where the opponent is at net position, the sharp angle, low underspin CC shot is usually not the first choice of shot.
Obviously, the first choice depends on a few things.
But, there's the lob, CC or DTL, over the net person's head.
There's the normal hard low dipping CC pass attempt.
There's the DTL topspin pass.
There's the bullet into the hitting side pocket of the opponent.
So, knowing that, and seeing all the possible choices, which is the most consistent and would work most often against most opponent's?
Mine thinking is the deep CC lob, first and foremost.
My least practiced is the short angle topspin CC pass.

What are you talking about? You are talking about situations now where crosscourt sharp angle would not be a smart idea, OP was talking when you DO decide to hit a crosscourt angle, so that assumes the situation is right, for example your opponent rushes the net and covers down the line decently but has more space crosscourt, you hit a crosscourt angle and he can't do anything, hitting a slice in this situation would mean he would have a chance to get to the ball.

 

[LeeD]

Just because the opponent "has a chance to get to the ball", doesn't mean it's a bad choice of shot.
You play tennis, right? You KNOW a slice is best answered by a slice. Don't you? So, how to proceed? Hit a topspin short angle sharp CC off a sliced approach shot? THAT is the best you can do? That not percentage tennis, is it?
You gotta apply some thinking to this question. Approach shot is sliced, usually heavily skidding slice, low around your shins. What's the range of returns you can apply to counter that?

 

[FiReFTW]

Just because the opponent "has a chance to get to the ball", doesn't mean it's a bad choice of shot.
You play tennis, right? You KNOW a slice is best answered by a slice. Don't you? So, how to proceed? Hit a topspin short angle sharp CC off a sliced approach shot? THAT is the best you can do? That not percentage tennis, is it?
You gotta apply some thinking to this question. Approach shot is sliced, usually heavily skidding slice, low around your shins. What's the range of returns you can apply to counter that?

I dont really agree, ive watched alot of tennis, from pro level to more college level, and what you are saying rarely happens.
Yes if the opponents are baseline rallying, then slice is usually answered with slice, not always tho, but a fair amount of times. But if an opponent rushes the net:
He doesnt always slice it, he might just hit a good shot and stretch you and then aproach, but in both of these cases I rarely see the use of slice back, much more likely depending on the opponents position is a sharp angle CC, passing shot DDL, or a lob of some type.
Maybe you just have a weakness hitting low slices and u slice it back, thats fine, but in 80% of the cases in these situations I see players use one of the above things, from a competitive 4.5-5.0 level all the way to pro level, do you disagree?
And on a level 3.0 or so, who really has a quality low skid slice?

 

[LeeD]

You may argue with the choice of shots of former A level player's, but I know they are going for high percentage when choosing slice over topspin for the short angle CC passing shots.
I don't care what shot a 18 year old trained D-1 player uses. I"m not as good as them, I haven't hit thousands of topspin short angle passing shots in my recent training.
Maybe YOU are that good, have practiced all those topspin shots, so that is YOUR choice.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

my favorite drill for this... is to do cross court mini tennis.
the goal is to hit into the service box... as close to the net as possible.
to do this, you need a ton of topspin, and feel for where your contact is.