Should Fed switch to a larger head size like Pete???

VGP

Legend
I agree with drakulie that this "shanking" thing between Federer and other players is blown out of proportion.

I've heard other say it (i.e. Breakpoint) and I agree. A framed ball on a Wilson k90 is a framed ball on a Babolat APD......and given the frame cross-sections on those two frames, framing on an APD is less likely to get the ball headed back into the right direction.
 

jman

Semi-Pro
OP Sampras switched from 85 to 90, which is what Federer uses now. I think if Federer needs to change anything, it's his physical state. He needs more work at the gym!
 

VGP

Legend
The OP is referring to Sampras' recent change to using the Babolat Pure Storm Ltd.

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Honestly, I think he switched to a less powerful frame compared to the kPS88.
 

MAX PLY

Hall of Fame
^^^^
Yeah, everyone's kinda missed that point. Besides, Pete never suggested he would switch because of shanking--it had more to do with easier access to power and spin. Roger doesn't have that problem as he already switched to 90. Given the number of slams and time at Number 1 with his current stick, I think it is pretty presumptous, that folks on this board (excepting of course, those who think they can beat Isner if Isner wasn't allowed to hit his big serve) are serious with this criticism of Roger.

At the pro level (and frankly at the high amateur level), shanking has little or nothing to do with headsize--its all about a slightly mistimed shot, pulling off a little too soon or trying to give the ball a little more work than you are in position for. When you look at Roger's shot selection, he is amazingly aggressive both with the speed of his swing and with his placement--given what he is trying to do with the ball most of the time, any small footwork error or slight mistiming can result in a less than purely hit ball.

Finally, I think Drak's point about simply seeing more of Roger's matches is right on--as big a swing as most pros take, everybody hits a few shanks a match.
 

db379

Hall of Fame
The OP is referring to Sampras' recent change to using the Babolat Pure Storm Ltd.

Not Ltd, PSTour.

Honestly, I think he switched to a less powerful frame compared to the kPS88.

I agree with drakulie that this "shanking" thing between Federer and other players is blown out of proportion.

I've heard other say it (i.e. Breakpoint) and I agree. A framed ball on a Wilson k90 is a framed ball on a Babolat APD......and given the frame cross-sections on those two frames, framing on an APD is less likely to get the ball headed back into the right direction.

^^^^
Yeah, everyone's kinda missed that point. Besides, Pete never suggested he would switch because of shanking--it had more to do with easier access to power and spin. Roger doesn't have that problem as he already switched to 90. Given the number of slams and time at Number 1 with his current stick, I think it is pretty presumptous, that folks on this board (excepting of course, those who think they can beat Isner if Isner wasn't allowed to hit his big serve) are serious with this criticism of Roger.

At the pro level (and frankly at the high amateur level), shanking has little or nothing to do with headsize--its all about a slightly mistimed shot, pulling off a little too soon or trying to give the ball a little more work than you are in position for. When you look at Roger's shot selection, he is amazingly aggressive both with the speed of his swing and with his placement--given what he is trying to do with the ball most of the time, any small footwork error or slight mistiming can result in a less than purely hit ball.

Finally, I think Drak's point about simply seeing more of Roger's matches is right on--as big a swing as most pros take, everybody hits a few shanks a match.

I don't agree with what you guys said here. According to you, shanking a ball, or for that matter not hitting the ball perfectly well, has nothing to do with head size? Well, in this case why 95% of college players and pros play with MP and OS racquets? Since small head sizes actually offer more control (which I agree with), better serving accuracy, good power, better feel etc ... then every competitive player should play with a 90sq in. Oh wait why not go back to the max200g (was it 80 sqin??), or the PS 85. I think we all agree these are great sticks, better feel and control than any MP and OS, right? According to your theory one would framed balls on a Bab 100 sqin the same as with a Jack Kramer woodie or a PS85 !? :confused:

Of course, one can say, it's all footwork and technique. True, but in the real world, when you play a match under stress and pressure, your footwork may not be perfect and having a slightly larger HS will help in retrieving these wide balls and playing defence more effeciently than with a small HS. My 2cts, from playing competitive tennis for more than 20yrs.
Frankly, the way Fed played today, we can all say, great ! his footwork was spot on, he played unbelieveable! And it's true, when he plays like this there's nothing to say, but most of his matches are not like today's performance anymore, and when he faces Nadal who throws in his huge top spin FH on his BH, we all know how it usually ends.
 
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Gtech

Rookie
Dude, have you seen how minuscule the difference is between a 90 and 100sq in racket? The difference is soo small that it has to be completely irrelevant to shanking. It is not like the 90 is 3-4 inches narrower than a 100 racket. If you put one on top of the other you are hard pressed to see the difference in string area. Even the TW University racket sweetspot sizing shows that. The BLX 90 has as big of a sweetspot area, and in cases even bigger than other 98-100sq in frames. There are many more variables involved than just the area.

And the argument on the BH is misguided as well in my opinion. The headlight balance of the racket is far more critical to repeatable good topspin 1HB than the small difference in the size of the head. Two handed BH players can get away with less HL or Even balance frames, but not aggressive 1HB backhand. Any 1HB player is going to have a hard time with a hard, high kicking ball specially from a lefty. The racket head is not the issue on that shot, trying to generate power from the shoulder when holding the racket that high is the issue, regardless how big the racket is.
 

(K)evin

Rookie
I agree with OP that Federer should try a bigger head size maybe a 93 or 95? Sampras even says that he wished that back then he tried different set ups instead of being so stubborn and I'm hoping Fed doesn't make the same mistake because maybe an adjustment like that could prolong his career a bit more then he has planned.
 

Devilito

Hall of Fame
I agree with OP that Federer should try a bigger head size maybe a 93 or 95? Sampras even says that he wished that back then he tried different set ups instead of being so stubborn and I'm hoping Fed doesn't make the same mistake because maybe an adjustment like that could prolong his career a bit more then he has planned.

Everyone keeps saying that about Pete. Can you please link me? I'd love to read about that.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Yes, maybe Federer should switch racquets with Soderling? Because Federer is able to dish out such a spanking to Soderling with his current racquet that it's downright embarrassing. :oops:
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
I agree with OP that Federer should try a bigger head size maybe a 93 or 95? Sampras even says that he wished that back then he tried different set ups instead of being so stubborn and I'm hoping Fed doesn't make the same mistake because maybe an adjustment like that could prolong his career a bit more then he has planned.
Yeah, and I wish I picked the winning numbers in last week's Lotto. Sampras may have never won any Slams had he used a bigger racquet. You can't change one thing and expect everything else to remain the same.
 

db379

Hall of Fame
Yes, maybe Federer should switch racquets with Soderling? Because Federer is able to dish out such a spanking to Soderling with his current racquet that it's downright embarrassing. :oops:

Yeah, and I wish I picked the winning numbers in last week's Lotto. Sampras may have never won any Slams had he used a bigger racquet. You can't change one thing and expect everything else to remain the same.

I'm not sure why some posters on this board are so stubborn... Why not just accept the fact that it's a little more demanding to play with 85 or 90 than with a 95 or 98? The fact that Fed can play amazing tennis with a 90 (and that he's the only guy on tour to be able to do so) doesn't mean that he could not benefit too from a slight larger headsize. I don't think he should go to 100 or even 98, but more like 95. He would no doubt be able to adjust in just 3-4 weeks if Wilson makes him a custom stick to his requirements. The fact that he spanked Soderling and Djoker doesn't mean he wouldn't have spanked as good, or better, with a larger head, right? Of course, when he's on top of his form, he can beat anyone with a frying pan, but when he's struggling a little then it would probably make a difference to have a slight larger racquet size. Is it so difficult to admit?? BTW,I don't think it should be a radical change either, but just help him play better defence against the big 3 when he needs it. One point in a set can change everything at this level!
 

rommil

Legend
Anything above 90 sq inch is not 'tweener friendly. He shanks his forehand but not the between the legs shot so yeah, must be the headsize.
 
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rommil

Legend
Once I perfect my timing, I am petitioning for racket companies to make me a 30 sq inch tennis racket that way I know for sure I can carry them onboard on any flight.
 

Wilander Fan

Hall of Fame
What would the larger headsize actually do for a pro at that level? Create more spin and a bit more power at the expense of control?

Anyone who has changed from the smaller head to the larger modern one knows it changes your hitting mechanics. It would definitely change Federer's since he has a very classic hitting style. No one really hits like him. OTOH, most of the other top players have similar looking strokes.
 

JediMindTrick

Hall of Fame
What would the larger headsize actually do for a pro at that level? Create more spin and a bit more power at the expense of control?

He would mishit less.

Anyone who has changed from the smaller head to the larger modern one knows it changes your hitting mechanics. It would definitely change Federer's since he has a very classic hitting style. No one really hits like him. OTOH, most of the other top players have similar looking strokes.

There is nothing classic about Federer's strokes, in fact it's quite the opposite.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
I'm not sure why some posters on this board are so stubborn... Why not just accept the fact that it's a little more demanding to play with 85 or 90 than with a 95 or 98? The fact that Fed can play amazing tennis with a 90 (and that he's the only guy on tour to be able to do so) doesn't mean that he could not benefit too from a slight larger headsize. I don't think he should go to 100 or even 98, but more like 95. He would no doubt be able to adjust in just 3-4 weeks if Wilson makes him a custom stick to his requirements. The fact that he spanked Soderling and Djoker doesn't mean he wouldn't have spanked as good, or better, with a larger head, right? Of course, when he's on top of his form, he can beat anyone with a frying pan, but when he's struggling a little then it would probably make a difference to have a slight larger racquet size. Is it so difficult to admit?? BTW,I don't think it should be a radical change either, but just help him play better defence against the big 3 when he needs it. One point in a set can change everything at this level!
Because only recreational players think it's all about the racquet. That's why recreational players buy lots of different racquets constantly and are always switching racquets. How often do you see pros switching racquets? Almost never. They just switch to the latest paintjob of their old racquets. Most of them use the same racquet for their entire careers. Instead of switching racquets, the pros do drills, work on footwork, conditioning, endurance, speed, flexibility, mechanics, and they practice a lot, etc. Most recreational players are too lazy to do any of the above so they switch racquets instead, thinking that will somehow magically make them a better player. Pros are a lot smarter than that.
 

db379

Hall of Fame
What would the larger headsize actually do for a pro at that level? Create more spin and a bit more power at the expense of control?

Anyone who has changed from the smaller head to the larger modern one knows it changes your hitting mechanics. It would definitely change Federer's since he has a very classic hitting style. No one really hits like him. OTOH, most of the other top players have similar looking strokes.

That's a good point. True Fed has a more classic game than most other pros, but I still believe he could be helped by a slightly larger head size. When he's on his A game, I agree no need to change anything, but when he's not ( at it's happened a lot lately) he would benefit IMO. Once again, I'm talking about defence play mainly. Anyone would benefit from a larger head to play defensive shots.
 

db379

Hall of Fame
Because only recreational players think it's all about the racquet. That's why recreational players buy lots of different racquets constantly and are always switching racquets. How often do you see pros switching racquets? Almost never. They just switch to the latest paintjob of their old racquets. Most of them use the same racquet for their entire careers. Instead of switching racquets, the pros do drills, work on footwork, conditioning, endurance, speed, flexibility, mechanics, and they practice a lot, etc. Most recreational players are too lazy to do any of the above so they switch racquets instead, thinking that will somehow magically make them a better player. Pros are a lot smarter than that.

I'm not sure where you put yourself among players on this board. You sound like if you were a professional. I'm not, but I'm not a recreational player either. I play competitive tennis, and I do practice drills as often as I can (although I'm not full time playing tennis, so I wish I could do more, but anyway...). You're right footwork is the most important part of the game,you don't have to convince me on that, and I'm not suggesting Fed should change racquets every week. My point is that at this point in his career, he's 28 I believe, his footwork is probably not going to improve much, and if he want to stay competitive against Nadal etc... he might consider getting a little extra help from his stick. That's all. But of course there are too many purists on these boards to admit this simple truth.
 

Roger No.1

Rookie
I would guess Federer himself has thought about this and most likely has experimented with different frames during practice. I think with a bigger head size he would not have as much control and confidence and what he wants is to place a ball few inches inside the line.
 
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