Would a larger racquet help Roger?

[asifallasleep]

It's going to be a long time before someone with the talent and consistency of Fed comes along again. People really need to appreciate him. Nadal is extremely fit, but if he had to play Fed with Fed's racquet or a smaller low powered frame, Fed would destroy him. What other player on the tour could compete and win the way Fed has with a 90 frame? If you've ever hit with any of the Wilson 90's, and a Babolat frame, you'd see the enormous difference between the two. Would Fed switching to a larger more powerful frame help his game? Compensate for him losing a step as he gets older. Imagine Fed using the Babolat Aero Pro?

 

[Heracles]

That's why I really hate Federer fans. They are horrible.

 

[asifallasleep]

haha, now that's just mean!!

 

[darth_federer]

Which movie is that from?

 

[tata]

Jim courier did mention this during his semi final match. That as Federer goes into different phases of his career he needs to make adjustments not only to his game but also his equipment. If he does get a bigger frame i doubt it will be bigger by much. But certainly, we will wait and see to the end of the year and see if he can bounce back. Everyone was saying the same thing in 08 and i don't think Sampras changed frames did he?

 

[AznHylite]

Jim courier did mention this during his semi final match. That as Federer goes into different phases of his career he needs to make adjustments not only to his game but also his equipment. If he does get a bigger frame i doubt it will be bigger by much. But certainly, we will wait and see to the end of the year and see if he can bounce back. Everyone was saying the same thing in 08 and i don't think Sampras changed frames did he?

sampras only switched frames after he retired.

 

[Lsmkenpo]

It's going to be a long time before someone with the talent and consistency of Fed comes along again. People really need to appreciate him. Nadal is extremely fit, but if he had to play Fed with Fed's racquet or a smaller low powered frame, Fed would destroy him. What other player on the tour could compete and win the way Fed has with a 90 frame? If you've ever hit with any of the Wilson 90's, and a Babolat frame, you'd see the enormous difference between the two. Would Fed switching to a larger more powerful frame help his game? Compensate for him losing a step as he gets older. Imagine Fed using the Babolat Aero Pro?

No, why? because it is a misconception that smaller players racquets have less power.

The power in the sweetspot of the k90 is actually higher than the APD. http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/cgi-bin/comparepower.cgi?racquetA=K61T90|90|Wilson|KSix-One:Tour:90|RCWILSON|&racquetB=BAPDC|100|Babolat|AeroProrive:Cortex|RCBAB|x&racquetC=none&racquetD=none
Here is a shot map with speed and trajectory off both racquets with the same swing, the k90 hits a deeper faster ball than the APD. http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/cgi-bin/trajectory_compare.cgi#output

He wouldn't gain any power, but he would lose some control, if he needs more power that can easily be achieved by dropping tension,rather than changing frames.

 

[asifallasleep]

No, why? because it is a misconception that smaller players racquets have less power.

The power in the sweetspot of the k90 is actually higher than the APD. http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/cgi-bin/comparepower.cgi?racquetA=K61T90|90|Wilson|KSix-One:Tour:90|RCWILSON|&racquetB=BAPDC|100|Babolat|AeroProrive:Cortex|RCBAB|x&racquetC=none&racquetD=none
Here is a shot map with speed and trajectory off both racquets with the same swing, the k90 hits a deeper faster ball than the APD. http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/cgi-bin/trajectory_compare.cgi#output

He wouldn't gain any power, but he would lose some control, if he needs more power that can easily be achieved by dropping tension,rather than changing frames.

I actually use the PS88, having used the Aero Pro, BLX90, K90, N90, and PS85. You are correct when comparing the Aero Pro to the BLX90 in terms of power. However, if Fed sought more power in a larger frame, there are a wealth of options on the market. My argument wasn't speaking in terms of power when referencing the Aero Pro, but of precision. With the Aero Pro, I didnt have to be precise in terms of footwork to hit a great ball. I could show up a little late time and time again and just let the racquet whip and crank a winner. With the BLX90 or any players frame you have to have perfect footwork almost every time to hit a great ball. Very few of the top 10 even use player frames.

 

[Lsmkenpo]

I actually use the PS88, having used the Aero Pro, BLX90, K90, N90, and PS85. You are correct when comparing the Aero Pro to the BLX90 in terms of power. However, if Fed sought more power in a larger frame, there are a wealth of options on the market. My argument wasn't speaking in terms of power when referencing the Aero Pro, but of precision. With the Aero Pro, I didnt have to be precise in terms of footwork to hit a great ball. I could show up a little late time and time again and just let the racquet whip and crank a winner. With the BLX90 or any players frame you have to have perfect footwork almost every time to hit a great ball. Very few of the top 10 even use player frames.

What you are describing in terms of setting up late is playing with a racquet that is heavier and swings slower, not so much headsize IMO, this would seem to be subjective to each individual player and their strokes and conditioning. What helps one player may not help another.

Federer generates his topspin on the forehand differnently than most pros do, he swings through the ball and turns his wrist over at contact, so he doesn't need a big spin window or whippy frame to hit his forehand. That said, I don't see how it would help more than likely he would lose some control and power on his best shot. Think of his forehand as a flat stroke in terms of production,eventhough the end result is a tremendous amount of spin.

I too have played the various Wilson 90's and the Babolats. Strokes with a flat swing plane were much harder to control with the babolats. the ball gets lost more on the bigger head.

They only offer an advantage on steeper topspin strokes with their bigger spin windows.

Federer doesn't swing with a steep swing plane to generate spin, he is unique, so I don't think a bigger racquet would help his game. Better to change strategy and play more aggressive if he has lost a step than to play the same and hope a bigger lighter racquet can cover for poor footwork, IMO.

 

[pmerk34]

What you are describing in terms of setting up late is playing with a racquet that is heavier and swings slower, not so much headsize IMO, this would seem to be subjective to each individual player and their strokes and conditioning. What helps one player may not help another.

Federer generates his topspin on the forehand differnently than most pros do, he swings through the ball and turns his wrist over at contact, so he doesn't need a big spin window or whippy frame to hit his forehand. That said, I don't see how it would help more than likely he would lose some control and power on his best shot. Think of his forehand as a flat stroke in terms of production,eventhough the end result is a tremendous amount of spin.

I too have played the various Wilson 90's and the Babolats. Strokes with a flat swing plane were much harder to control with the babolats. the ball gets lost more on the bigger head.

They only offer an advantage on steeper topspin strokes with their bigger spin windows.

Federer doesn't swing with a steep swing plane to generate spin, he is unique, so I don't think a bigger racquet would help his game. Better to change strategy and play more aggressive if he has lost a step than to play the same and hope a bigger lighter racquet can cover for poor footwork, IMO.

er
Federer has poor footwork?
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

No really, HAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAHAHHAAH

 

[Lsmkenpo]

er
Federer has poor footwork?
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

No really, HAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAHAHHAAH

No I don't think he has poor footwork, probably one of the best in history, I meant it in relation to what the OP is suggesting that a bigger racquet will compensate for losing a step, I am not certain if that is the case either, just that a bigger racquet won't help him in that regard.

 

[Devilito]

Andre Agassi and Michael Chang were using a 110sq” frame in the 80s. Sampras and Courier were using 85. It’s all down to player preference. You don’t think Courier or Sampras could have used larger frames if they wanted to, or if they thought it would improve their game? Some people talk about going to a large frame size like it’s some new concept and smaller head sizes are antiquated. It has nothing to do with any of that.

 

[Bartelby]

Yes, but does he have adequate power always on the backhand and on the forehand run against his contemporaries circa 2006, yes, but against his contemporaries, circa 2011, no.

So smaller racquets don't have less power, but they have less usable power in certain situations.

No, why? because it is a misconception that smaller players racquets have less power.

The power in the sweetspot of the k90 is actually higher than the APD. http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/cgi-bin/comparepower.cgi?racquetA=K61T90|90|Wilson|KSix-One:Tour:90|RCWILSON|&racquetB=BAPDC|100|Babolat|AeroProrive:Cortex|RCBAB|x&racquetC=none&racquetD=none
Here is a shot map with speed and trajectory off both racquets with the same swing, the k90 hits a deeper faster ball than the APD. http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/cgi-bin/trajectory_compare.cgi#output

He wouldn't gain any power, but he would lose some control, if he needs more power that can easily be achieved by dropping tension,rather than changing frames.

 

[Lsmkenpo]

Yes, but does he have adequate power always on the backhand and on the forehand run against his contemporaries circa 2006, yes, but against his contemporaries, circa 2011, no.

So smaller racquets don't have less power, but they have less usable power in certain situations.

I disagree he is using gut mains strung in the 40's
with some lead added at 12 oclock, his racquet is very powerful.

What makes you think the power is less usable? look at the power map between the APD and the k90 and you will see it has more power overall across its hitting surface than the APD. It's not as if the K90 has a small sweetspot.

 

[Devilito]

I disagree he is using gut mains strung in the 40's
with some lead added at 12 oclock, his racquet is very powerful.

What makes you think the power is less usable? look at the power map between the APD and the k90 and you will see it has more power overall across its hitting surface than the APD. It's not as if the K90 has a small sweetspot.

i think some are forgetting that Federer dominated the entire indoor season and had an obvious lul during the Australian open semis. People make it seem like he's getting blow off the court all of a sudden. Lets not forget the fact that this is probably the slowest conditions ever at the Australian as well as Courier saying even the balls were larger and fuzzier making it even slower.

 

[Bartelby]

He probably adds about 3 grams at 12 from what i've seen, but Rafa adds at least 9 grams at 12 and 3 in the butt.

The reality is that Fed went from 85 to 90 for all the reasons that are discussed here, so there won't be any further changes.

If he were starting out now, a bigger headsze would be advisable.

I disagree he is using gut mains strung in the 40's
with some lead added at 12 oclock, his racquet is very powerful.

What makes you think the power is less usable? look at the power map between the APD and the k90 and you will see it has more power overall across its hitting surface than the APD. It's not as if the K90 has a small sweetspot.

 

[drakulie]

IIf you've ever hit with any of the Wilson 90's, and a Babolat frame, you'd see the enormous difference between the two. Would Fed switching to a larger more powerful frame help his game?

Actually, the k90 is a more powerful frame than say the Babolat Pure Drive. Not sure about the BLX.

 

[Devilito]

maybe if more players switched to 90sq" player frames they might actually start winning slams. How about that?

 

[Lsmkenpo]

If he were starting out now, a bigger headsze would be advisable.

Why? how would a bigger headsize improve his game?

It would diminsh his best shots but slightly improve his worst certainly not enough to turn a shank into a winner thats for sure.

Is it more important to keep the quality of his best shots which is the majority or make a shank land 5 foot out instead of 10?

 

[pmerk34]

No I don't think he has poor footwork, probably one of the best in history, I meant it in relation to what the OP is suggesting that a bigger racquet will compensate for losing a step, I am not certain if that is the case either, just that a bigger racquet won't help him in that regard.

I'm not sure at the level these guys play at you can do anything about losing a step.

 

[Lsmkenpo]

i think some are forgetting that Federer dominated the entire indoor season and had an obvious lul during the Australian open semis. People make it seem like he's getting blow off the court all of a sudden. Lets not forget the fact that this is probably the slowest conditions ever at the Australian as well as Courier saying even the balls were larger and fuzzier making it even slower.

Exactly, back to medium paced HC and suddenly he will be hitting more winners and aces again.

 

[Sentinel]

He also needs to employ TW posters as his personal coaches, (starting with the legendary suresh )

 

[Bartelby]

Slower courts are the norm now so even that trend has gone against Fed's game.

Exactly, back to medium paced HC and suddenly he will be hitting more winners and aces again.

 

[Lsmkenpo]

Slower courts are the norm now so even that trend has gone against Fed's game.

Sad but true, they keep it up and the ATP matches will look like the WTA.

 

[Bartelby]

Here's a good analysis from tennis.com:

This match did not signal anything so extreme as a changing of the guard. But it was perhaps the first Grand Slam final contested by the players who came up in the so-far-unnamed “slow-court era.” The combination of modern frames, modern strings, modern physicality, and modern slow courts have produced a distinct style, which Djokovic and Murray both embody. It’s a style of moderation, one that works on all surfaces. It revolves around two-handed backhands that serve as weapons; strong returns and versatile, rather than blistering, serves; a blend of offense and defense; an ability to change the direction of the ball at any time; a basic competence in all aspects of the sport rather than the reliance on a couple of huge weapons; and an emphasis on speed above else.

 

[Lsmkenpo]

Here's a good analysis from tennis.com:

This match did not signal anything so extreme as a changing of the guard. But it was perhaps the first Grand Slam final contested by the players who came up in the so-far-unnamed “slow-court era.” The combination of modern frames, modern strings, modern physicality, and modern slow courts have produced a distinct style, which Djokovic and Murray both embody. It’s a style of moderation, one that works on all surfaces. It revolves around two-handed backhands that serve as weapons; strong returns and versatile, rather than blistering, serves; a blend of offense and defense; an ability to change the direction of the ball at any time; a basic competence in all aspects of the sport rather than the reliance on a couple of huge weapons; and an emphasis on speed above else.

Sounds like a description of the WTA tour minus the grunting. I guess they want longer boring matches to get more advertising money from sponsers,very depressing.

 

[cueboyzn]

Perhaps he could ask Wilson to manufacture him a Tour 95 version of whatever he is using... Same beam width, same construction, same weight, just the 95 headsize. I'm sure it would be a popular racquet and a hot seller on the shelves with the public as well. I have always thought Wilson should have a Tour 95 box beam as well as their Tour 90. Just my opinion.

However i don't think it would be wise for Federer to make the change mid-season or even next season given the importance to him of the olympics at Wimbledon. But if he wants to continue playing as long as Agassi did, to age 35 or so, then maybe he should graduate to a Tour 95 after the 2012 season.

 

[pmerk34]

Sounds like a description of the WTA tour minus the grunting. I guess they want longer boring matches to get more advertising money from sponsers,very depressing.

No, they want the game to never go back to the boring ace,ace, service winner, 5 stroke "rally" matches of the 90's

 

[sureshs]

No, why? because it is a misconception that smaller players racquets have less power.

The power in the sweetspot of the k90 is actually higher than the APD. http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/cgi-bin/comparepower.cgi?racquetA=K61T90|90|Wilson|KSix-One:Tour:90|RCWILSON|&racquetB=BAPDC|100|Babolat|AeroProrive:Cortex|RCBAB|x&racquetC=none&racquetD=none
Here is a shot map with speed and trajectory off both racquets with the same swing, the k90 hits a deeper faster ball than the APD. http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/cgi-bin/trajectory_compare.cgi#output

He wouldn't gain any power, but he would lose some control, if he needs more power that can easily be achieved by dropping tension,rather than changing frames.

It is a different kind of power. One is due to more mass behind the stroke, and the other is due to larger string bed oscillations. In the modern game, you need to have the kind of power which is compatible with fast swings to produce topspin, not the kind of power which you gently tap the ball and it goes reasonably deep. In other words, heavier frame vs larger head.

 

[sureshs]

Here's a good analysis from tennis.com:

This match did not signal anything so extreme as a changing of the guard. But it was perhaps the first Grand Slam final contested by the players who came up in the so-far-unnamed “slow-court era.” The combination of modern frames, modern strings, modern physicality, and modern slow courts have produced a distinct style, which Djokovic and Murray both embody. It’s a style of moderation, one that works on all surfaces. It revolves around two-handed backhands that serve as weapons; strong returns and versatile, rather than blistering, serves; a blend of offense and defense; an ability to change the direction of the ball at any time; a basic competence in all aspects of the sport rather than the reliance on a couple of huge weapons; and an emphasis on speed above else.

Wow! Can you see the similarity with my post here in another thread:

"I see a new era where the GOATs play a balanced game. No more weak sliced backhands and over-reliance on the serve. I see a new era in which the GOATs can play under different conditions without depending too much on perfect timing. I dream of a new era in which a solid game is appreciated more than tweeners and special effects. Future generations will witness an era when a "GOAT" cannot be 0-40 down and then serve 4 aces to win the game, but must show all-round ability."

 

[Puma]

Wow, I can honestly say I have been around here long enough that this topic has become new again. Simply amazing......

 

[sureshs]

He also needs to employ TW posters as his personal coaches, (starting with the legendary suresh )

And you can be his personal masseuse.

 

[Sentinel]

And you can be his personal masseuse.

You fail. It's masseur ... unless you have some gender confusion, lol.

 

[sureshs]

You fail. It's masseur ... unless you have some gender confusion, lol.

OK.

You can teach him Kundalini Yoga.

 

[RogerRacket111]

I don't think its the power of his racket that's his problem. Its the ability to handle a high one handed backhand that will remain his problem.

 

[sureshs]

I don't think its the power of his racket that's his problem. Its the ability to handle a high one handed backhand that will remain his problem.

It is not a problem for Waw, who uses a 95 or bigger I think?

 

[Funbun]

5 sq. inches more makes very little difference.

 

[sureshs]

5 sq. inches more makes very little difference.

Yet all the stupid manufacturers keep making them, right? And pros also use them, right? They must all be fools.

 

[Bartelby]

Wilson should put some oports in the 90 and then he'll never shank again.

 

[droliver]

Here's a good analysis from tennis.com:

This match did not signal anything so extreme as a changing of the guard. But it was perhaps the first Grand Slam final contested by the players who came up in the so-far-unnamed “slow-court era.” The combination of modern frames, modern strings, modern physicality, and modern slow courts have produced a distinct style, which Djokovic and Murray both embody. It’s a style of moderation, one that works on all surfaces. It revolves around two-handed backhands that serve as weapons; strong returns and versatile, rather than blistering, serves; a blend of offense and defense; an ability to change the direction of the ball at any time; a basic competence in all aspects of the sport rather than the reliance on a couple of huge weapons; and an emphasis on speed above else.

I thought the conclusion that this was the "first" modern final was off by a decade. I would submit that the 2002 Wimbledon final (Hewitt vs. Nalbandian) was the clear precursor to 2 players using modern tennis technique in a slam final and represents the transition period between eras.

Hewitt himself is the transition player to the modern game in my mind when you look back at the arc of tennis history. I can remember at the time thinking his beat-down of Sampras in the 2001 US Open Final was like hearing Nirvana's "Smell's Like Teen Spirit" while I was in college and knowing that the 1980's pop culture was abruptly over (I'm kind of dating myself here). Suddenly it was speed and defense that became a premium over the serve and off-forehand winner.

 

[kishnabe]

He used a larger racquet to win his 16 slams...from 85 to 90! Wow if he changed to 95...he would never lose to Nadal ! Seriously Racquets barely have an effect on the player...only the customization of the racquet does! Also technique and physique. Going to a larger head will only hinder Federer game...which is based on control...he can generate his own power!

 

[cigrmaster]

The K90 is not a low powered frame. 5 sq inches makes no difference when you are a pro and you hit the sweet spot all the time.

I submit there is not a better racquet on the market for hitting a great back hand slice or a killer volley. Tennis is not about hitting the ball as hard as you can. It is about control, angles, tactics, the ability to bring your best when the pressure is the most.

If you think a racquet makes the player then you do not understand the game.

 

[JimF]

Why Copy Djoker

Why should Fed change racquet type (I say "type" because he's changed racquets at least 4 times, and strings once)?

Djokovic changed to a lighter racquet and completely destroyed his serve, until he changed back (according to Cahill).

A key advantage of Fed's racquet (which is basically the same stick Sampras used with some material upgrades) is serving accuracy, which both Fed and Sampras excel at. Why risk that?

Anyone here watch Fed completely dominate at the year-end ATP Cup, winning 10 of 11 sets against the top 8 players, losing serve only twice in the entire tournament (from memory)? Imagine if he had a "good" racquet

 

[sureshs]

The K90 is not a low powered frame. 5 sq inches makes no difference when you are a pro and you hit the sweet spot all the time.

I submit there is not a better racquet on the market for hitting a great back hand slice or a killer volley. Tennis is not about hitting the ball as hard as you can. It is about control, angles, tactics, the ability to bring your best when the pressure is the most.

If you think a racquet makes the player then you do not understand the game.

According to you, then neither do most pros, because hardly anyone is using a 90 sq in. They must be all so stupid.

 

[Puma]

Well I am glad to see this thread disinegrate to name calling and insults. For a minute there I thought some here may have grown some shread of decency. Nice to know the fanboys here are still debating what racket a 16 gram slam champion should change to, as if the champion has no idea what equipment fits him........

 

[BULLZ1LLA]

When Federer change racquet before? He change ever or always same?

 

[Devilito]

According to you, then neither do most pros, because hardly anyone is using a 90 sq in. They must be all so stupid.

most pros aren't winning slams are they

 

[cigrmaster]

According to you, then neither do most pros, because hardly anyone is using a 90 sq in. They must be all so stupid.

Did I call anyone stupid? I voiced an opinion. It is interesting that the two guys who have the most majors Roger and Pete, both play with a smaller head. Both of those guys have killer back hand slices, great volleys and accurate serves. Both play with the one handed back hand.

My position is that 5 sq inches doesn't make a big difference to guys that good. Roger grew up playing with a smaller head so for him to go bigger, I don't see it helping. Yes most of the pro's play 95-100, that is what they are comfortable with and what they grew up playing. I would be willing to bet most of those guys would not have a problem if their racquets went from 100-95, they would adjust quite easily.

At this level size does not really matter, it is more about what you are comfortable playing with.

 

[sureshs]

Did I call anyone stupid? I voiced an opinion. It is interesting that the two guys who have the most majors Roger and Pete, both play with a smaller head. Both of those guys have killer back hand slices, great volleys and accurate serves. Both play with the one handed back hand.

My position is that 5 sq inches doesn't make a big difference to guys that good. Roger grew up playing with a smaller head so for him to go bigger, I don't see it helping. Yes most of the pro's play 95-100, that is what they are comfortable with and what they grew up playing. I would be willing to bet most of those guys would not have a problem if their racquets went from 100-95, they would adjust quite easily.

At this level size does not really matter, it is more about what you are comfortable playing with.

Facts show that "most of the guys" are not making the switch. Doesn't matter what you think. Pete (who doesn't have a Career Slam) and Fed (who doesn't have the Olympics) are not the only players that are "that good."

I wouldn't call someone with a 8-14 loss record against his nearest rival very dominating. Now that the younger guns are reaching their peak, Fed needs to make adjustments if he wants to win another Slam.

 

[cigrmaster]

I agree Fed needs to make adjustments to win another slam, but I think his adjustment needs to be in the tactics and mental side of his game, not the physical. Yes Nadal has owned him but I do not believe that a 5 sq inch difference in racquet size is the reason or that if Fed went to a bigger head he would all of a sudden win more slams.