A topspin slice serve is not a kickserve. It's a slice serve with extra topspin. Check Goran Ivanisevic for a visual.Kick goes from 7 to 1 for a righty, not 5 to 11.
you (and all other posters) have assumed the axis of rotation is in the plane of the baseline, which it hardly ever is. it is actually a somewhat complicated 3d situation, with a combination of the axis of rotation AND the initial trajectory direction of the ball. this is esp important for the twist serve. twist is the situation in which a serve with a fair amount of topspin has an axis of rotation out of plane with the plane of the baseline. your description of a twist is completely wrong, twist is not inverse slice spin. no lefty should ever attempt to get 9-3 spin, and no righty should attempt 3-9 spin ... unless you really want to mess up your arm.Topspin slice is a hybrid between pure topsin 6 to 12 and pure slice 3-9, so topsin slice IS NOT 5 to 10, its 7:30 to 1:30 in its purest sense. Twist is 9 to 3 in its purest sense.
right, but a righty serve from 7-1 is certainly mostly topspin, and definitely a kick.A topspin slice serve is not a kickserve. It's a slice serve with extra topspin. Check Goran Ivanisevic for a visual.
Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Topspin-slice is hit from... around 4:30 to 10:30, while a kick is more like from 7 to 1.right, but a righty serve from 7-1 is certainly mostly topspin, and definitely a kick.
but, a righty cannot and SHOULD NOT ever hit from 4:30 - 10:30, it's basically impossible. topspin slice for a righty is more like 7:30 - 1:30.Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Topspin-slice is hit from... around 4:30 to 10:30, while a kick is more like from 7 to 1.
No, 7:30 to 1:30 is for a kickserve/twist. A topspin-slice is not a kickserve.but, a righty cannot and SHOULD NOT ever hit from 4:30 - 10:30, it's basically impossible. topspin slice for a righty is more like 7:30 - 1:30.
But... that makes no sense!
For a righty, if a pure topspin is from 6 to 12, and a pure slice serve is from 3 to 9, a topspin slice would be from 4,5 to 10,5.
The ball is struck in a diagonal way, from left to right, and from low to high on a topspin-slice.
But... that makes no sense!
For a righty, if a pure topspin is from 6 to 12, and a pure slice serve is from 3 to 9, a topspin slice would be from 4,5 to 10,5.
The ball is struck in a diagonal way, from left to right, and from low to high on a topspin-slice.
You're lookin' at the clock backwards, buddy.
Sorry, I meant from right to left for a righty server.Yes, and swinging left to right diagonally would be 7:30 to 1:30. I think what confused you was the slice serve. Unless you're hitting reverse slice a slice serve should be struck from 9 to 3, not 3 to 9.
nope. you are mistake about twist serves. the "clock face" descriptions of serve spin have nothing to due with twist (read my first post in this thread).No, 7:30 to 1:30 is for a kickserve/twist. A topspin-slice is not a kickserve.
4:30 to 10:30 is actually easier than 7 to 1. It's a normal 3 to 9 slice serve, with a more pronunciated low to high swing.
But... that makes no sense!
For a righty, if a pure topspin is from 6 to 12, and a pure slice serve is from 3 to 9, a topspin slice would be from 4,5 to 10,5.
The ball is struck in a diagonal way, from left to right, and from low to high on a topspin-slice.
Sorry, I meant from right to left for a righty server.
A slice serve for a righty is hit from 3 to 9. From right to left.
Arrgggg, Boojay, I can't stop watching your "Epic Video"!
Uhhhh, sorry? Heh.
Sorry, I meant from right to left for a righty server.
A slice serve for a righty is hit from 3 to 9. From right to left.
Haha, I meant that as a compliment, really. You're a solid player.
I understand the spins: For a pure righty slice serve, the ball travels from 9 to 3. That's anticlockwise, seen from the top, right? That's clear.
Yeah, probably. I just hit the fuzzy ball. Apparently, not that good with numbersI'm sorry, but that is not clear to me. If you picture your clock face as seen from the top, then how do you explain a topspin serve?
I've always understood the clock as being viewed from the fence behind you, as it would hang on a wall above your head (or wherever your toss is). I REALLY think we're all trying to say the same thing here. Let's clear up the clock issue and all go home happily
I understand the spins: For a pure righty slice serve, the ball travels from 9 to 3. That's anticlockwise, seen from the top, right? That's clear.
But to hit it that way, the arm doesn't travel from 9 to 3, but from 3 to 9.
To make the ball spin from 9 to 3, you have to it it at 3 o'clock, not at 9 o'clock. If you hit the ball at 9 o'clock, the ball travels from 3 to 9, that is clockwise.
The ball spins from 9 to 3, but it must be struck from 3 to 9. That's what I'm talking about.
I'm pretty sure Rickson's a righty though.Rickson, if you are a lefty then I would definitely think that a good lefty slider is an excellent 2nd serve choice. In some of my Usta matches I played against lefties who would do nothing but extreme slice serveson the AD court. It was really effective in forcing me to hit slice returns which they could capitalize on. I personally think that all lefties should have a solid slice serve in their repertoire to keep their opponents planted to the AD corner. I've rarely seen or played against a lefty that had a good topspin or twist serve, so it wouldn't hurt to keep one of those in your bag to keep your opponents guessing, and its always weird the first time a lefty twist serve kicks out high to the forehand if your always used to getting them to your backhand.
But... that makes no sense!
For a righty, if a pure topspin is from 6 to 12, and a pure slice serve is from 3 to 9, a topspin slice would be from 4,5 to 10,5.
The ball is struck in a diagonal way, from right to left, and from low to high on a topspin-slice.
I really wish I had never used the clock numbers... Everyone here understands the contents of the discussion and have used up bandwidth to discuss the nomenclature.
I see that Rafa does this a lot, but I'm wondering how safe a serve this is compared to a kick serve. Is the slice serve indeed safer than a flat serve and nearly as safe if not as safe as a kick serve?