Some random theorization about the shortcomings of the SA forehand

[Clay lover]

Of course folks have been touting the SA as the next big thing since the conception of its modern form, and while utilized by many players known for their strong forehands, the success Djokovic, Hewitt, Medvedev and Murray has had with their forehands playing a counterpunching/ redirection-based style made me wonder whether there's one area the double-bend excels better at - control.

My first theory is that the SA forehand requires EXTREME LAG - much more so than the double bend. As an SA requires a completely relaxed arm for it to lag and straighten behind your body like a noodle, considerable force needs to be put into your rotation for the lag to take its full effect, making it harder to slow down the swing for redirection-based half-swings. The extreme lag also means the arm has to adopt a completely passive role otherwise the kinetic chain of swinging a whip just wouldn't work, whereas with the DB you get a tighter structure which grants you some sensation of your muscles and what you arm is doing, again making some last-minute redirection based on feel a little easier compared to if you're completely relying on your spatial awareness to get your racquet onto the ball as the arm isn't intended to take an active role.

Secondly, arm configuration. The SA allows for great reach sure, but also demands better timing and a narrower range of contact points as you have to meet the ball at the same contact point almost every time. With the DB the different degrees and configurations of bends allow for a broader range of contact points whether in terms of the plane that runs parallel to the body or the plane that is perpendicular to it, making the forehand more forgiving for misjudged distances and mistimings when rushed.

These are just completely random, baseless thoughts and I was wondering if anyone ever thought the same, or if I'm completely off-base.

 

[Hawks9451]

Not familiar with the esotericisms of this part of the board. Does SA stand for Single Action? Like a Colt revolver?

 

[Jonesy]

As long as i can play with my wrist, the arm doesn't matter.

 

[travlerajm]

Of course folks have been touting the SA as the next big thing since the conception of its modern form, and while utilized by many players known for their strong forehands, the success Djokovic, Hewitt, Medvedev and Murray has had with their forehands playing a counterpunching/ redirection-based style made me wonder whether there's one area the double-bend excels better at - control.

My first theory is that the SA forehand requires EXTREME LAG - much more so than the double bend. As an SA requires a completely relaxed arm for it to lag and straighten behind your body like a noodle, considerable force needs to be put into your rotation for the lag to take its full effect, making it harder to slow down the swing for redirection-based half-swings. The extreme lag also means the arm has to adopt a completely passive role otherwise the kinetic chain of swinging a whip just wouldn't work, whereas with the DB you get a tighter structure which grants you some sensation of your muscles and what you arm is doing, again making some last-minute redirection based on feel a little easier compared to if you're completely relying on your spatial awareness to get your racquet onto the ball as the arm isn't intended to take an active role.

Secondly, arm configuration. The SA allows for great reach sure, but also demands better timing and a narrower range of contact points as you have to meet the ball at the same contact point almost every time. With the DB the different degrees and configurations of bends allow for a broader range of contact points whether in terms of the plane that runs parallel to the body or the plane that is perpendicular to it, making the forehand more forgiving for misjudged distances and mistimings when rushed.

These are just completely random, baseless thoughts and I was wondering if anyone ever thought the same, or if I'm completely off-base.

Correct. I wish I had a SA.

 

[ls206]

Not familiar with the esotericisms of this part of the board. Does SA stand for Single Action? Like a Colt revolver?

My guess is “straight arm”??

 

[Jonesy]

Correct. I wish I had a SA.

Would you trade your junkball skills for a SA FH?

 

[nyta2]

i always throught the straight arm forehand, was just a function of the grip used (and how the wrist/arm needs to configure to get the face at the right angle).
when i used to hit extreme western (almost hawaiian - eg. conti grip - opposite side hitting), i was hitting a very bent arm forehand
but when i switched to extreme eastern/mild semi western, i started hitting straight arm...
but i never consciously chose straight arm or bent arm...

 

[travlerajm]

Would you trade your junkball skills for a SA FH?

Do I get to have Carlos’ howitzer or do I have to have a Hyeon Chung spray nozzle?

 

[Jonesy]

Do I get to have Carlos’ howitzer or do I have to have a Hyeon Chung spray nozzle?

No pro FH, just a good technique modern 5.0 FH.

 

[Dragy]

The “complete passive” part is not correct, there are a lot of important things going on with arm, shoulder and even forearm/wrist - particularly how much you restrict the wrist from “snapping” for different shots.

I actually agree bent arm is more versatile and adjustable, which is useful in multiple scenarios. Given pro players hit against hard hit balls a lot, the power redirection type of shot is very important and efficient. It’s just what you see with 2HBH a lot, by the way.

You can adjust your spacing with SA, by hitting more it front + strongly rotated, fade type of stroke; or more to the side, “hooking” the outside of the ball. It just takes a bit faster thinking (you can do same with bent arm) compared to just changing elbow bend last second. I believe straight arm allows to hit stronger vs “nothing” balls, and even when caught a bit off-balance one can whip it using strong leg action and torso rotation, like Rafa.

 

[WeekendTennisHack]

Don't think the whole arm should lag behind the body. Lag really initiates at the wrist.

 

[Dragy]

Don't think the whole arm should lag behind the body. Lag really initiates at the wrist.

Arm in modern FH - both bent and straight - should settle into strong socket of externally rotated upper arm - this blocks arm from lagging behind the back and allows to efficiently transmit momentum from rotating upper torso.

 

[travlerajm]

No pro FH, just a good technique modern 5.0 FH.

If I had a 5.0 level forehand, my overall level would be a lot better than the 4.5-5.0 level it is now, as I currently have to design my point strategy around my forehand being weaker than that of every opponent I play against at my level.

 

[WeekendTennisHack]

Arm in modern FH - both bent and straight - should settle into strong socket of externally rotated upper arm - this blocks arm from lagging behind the back and allows to efficiently transmit momentum from rotating upper torso.

I agree in general. But for SA, locking into socket is not as straight forward, check Federer where he only externally rotates partially, i.e. look at the plane of elbow region, it never points to the sky as it would if you were completely externally rotated and locked.

 

[Jonesy]

If I had a 5.0 level forehand, my overall level would be a lot better than the 4.5-5.0 level it is now, as I currently have to design my point strategy around my forehand being weaker than that of every opponent I play against at my level.

Yeah, that could be the missing part that would make you take the world of 5.0 by storm. Sadly muscle memory is a ***** and the only pro player that i know that changed from a BA to a SA FH is Zverev.

 

[ChaelAZ]

SA is nice to work towards, but at the rec level just making forward contact without TRex arms is a win.

 

[Dansan]

It's such a dynamic motion ...different for every player due to height, grip, and where they contact the ball, ect. I don't think there's black and white right way to say SA is the only and best way. However, the best players have things in common with the forehand stroke that results in a general ATP motion but there are slight variations for every player on every shot.

Many players overdo it or overthink it, or break it down in way too many mental steps. Some players think they are doing it, but an outside viewer or video shows it's not even close or not fluid. I believe in the the whole feel vs real thing I encourage people to have a pro watching or video to see what you are actually doing.

On the opposite spectrum I've seen players that have beautiful strokes on video and in practice, but for some reason it falls apart during a match. The modern forehand at the highest level (in a match) is a lot more of a compact/fluid motion than people realize.

 

[ballmachineguy]

Many players overdo it or overthink it, or break it down in way too many mental steps.

The modern forehand at the highest level (in a match) is a lot more of a compact/fluid motion than people realize.

Amen