Stats for Fed-Rod (Shanghai 06 TMC)

[Murray_Maniac]

Roddick, having lost the previous 7 times they'd met, searched for his 2nd win against Federer since his lone win in 2003 at the canada masters. In this match, Roddick used the tactic of coming to net more often, but that didn't prevent Federer from blasting frequent winners. He came extremely close to a victory, hanging close with Federer because of his serve, earning 3 match points, but Federer won the match in the end.

Match summary
Roddick broke at 1-1 in the 1st set off of Federer's double fault to win the set 6-4.

In the 2nd set, Roddick serving at 4-5, Federer got 3 set points, one at 30-40 and 2 more in deuce, but Roddick finally held serve in the 3rd deuce off of a bh volley winner. The set led to a tiebreak. In the tiebreak, Roddick had 2 match points at 6-4 and 5-6, but Federer fended them off. Federer got a set point at 6-7, but Roddick took charge and earned another match point at 7-8. Roddick failed on his 3rd match point, and as Federer had his 5th set point at 8-9, Roddick struck an overhead error to hand Federer the 2nd set.

Federer broke in the 3rd set at 1-1 by forcing a volley error from Roddick and led on to win the match 6-4.

My stats:

Federer hit 42 non-service winners: 23 fh, 15 bh, 4 fhv, 0 bhv, 0 oh.

Roddick hit 16 non-service winners: 3 fh, 1 bh, 5 fhv, 5 bhv, and 2 oh.

Non-service winners by set:

Federer: 12, 18, 12
Roddick: 4, 9, 3

Federer hit 13 aces, while Roddick hit 11 aces.

Aces by set:
Federer: 3, 3, 7
Roddick: 7, 3, 1

Federer hit 10 passing shot winners (3 fh, 8 bh), while Roddick hit no passing shot winners

Federer hit 12 unreturned serves, discluding aces, 6 of which were forced return errors.

Roddick hit 27 unreturned serves, discluding aces, 17 of which were forced return errors.

Federer had a total 1st serve percentage of 59.8 (64 of 107)

Roddick had a total 1st seve percentage of 64.8 (70 of 108)

Federer was 1 of 7 on breaks (14.3 %).
Roddick was 1 of 4 on breaks (25 %).

Federer had a total of 71 errors, 36 of which I judged as unforced.

Roddick had a total of 52 errors, 23 of which I judged as unforced.

(errors include return errors, but not double faults)

(If you'd like me to show total # of errors & unforced errors per player per set, please request & Ill be happy to show you guys)

Federer hit 4 double faults, while Roddick hit 1 double fault.

 

[krosero]

Roddick, having lost the previous 7 times they'd met, searched for his 2nd win since his lone win in 2003 at the canada masters. In this match, Roddick used the tactic of coming to net more often, but that didn't prevent Federer from blasting frequent winners. He came extremely close to a victory, earning 3 match points, but Federer won the match in the end.

Match summary
Roddick broke at 1-1 in the 1st set off of Federer's double fault to win the set 6-4.

In the 2nd set, Roddick serving at 4-5, Federer got 3 set points, one at 30-40 and 2 more in deuce, but Roddick finally held serve in the 3rd deuce off of a bh volley winner. The set led to a tiebreak. In the tiebreak, Roddick had 2 match points at 6-4 and 5-6, but Federer fended them off. Federer got a set point at 6-7, but Roddick took charge and earned another match point at 7-8. Roddick failed on his 3rd match point, and as Federer had his 5th set point at 8-9, Roddick struck an overhead error to hand Federer the 2nd set.

Federer broke in the 3rd set at 1-1 by forcing a volley error from Roddick and led on to win the match 6-4.

My stats:

Federer hit 42 non-service winners: 23 fh, 15 bh, & 4 fhv.

Roddick hit 16 non-service winners: 3 fh, 1 bh, 5 fhv, 5 bhv, and 2 oh.

Non-service winners by set:

Federer: 12, 18, 12
Roddick: 4, 9, 3

Federer hit 13 aces, while Roddick hit 11 aces.

Aces by set:
Federer: 3, 3, 7
Roddick: 7, 3, 1

Federer hit 10 passing shot winners (3 fh, 8 bh), while Roddick hit no passing shot winners

Federer hit 12 unreturned serves, discluding aces, 6 of which were forced return errors.

Roddick hit 27 unreturned serves, discluding aces, 17 of which were forced return errors.

Federer had a total 1st serve percentage of 59.8 (64 of 107)

Roddick had a total 1st seve percentage of 64.8 (70 of 108 )

Federer was 1 of 7 on breaks (14.3 %).
Roddick was 1 of 4 on breaks (25 %).

Federer had a total of 71 errors, 36 of which I judged as unforced.

Roddick had a total of 52 errors, 23 of which I judged as unforced.

(errors include return errors, but not double faults)

(If you'd like me to show total # of errors & unforced errors per player per set, please request & Ill be happy to show you guys)

Federer hit 4 double faults, while Roddick hit 1 double fault.

Your winners, errors, aces and doubles add up to Federer winning 108 points, Roddick 102 (a total of 210). The ATP has Fed winning 109, Roddick 106 (a total of 215).

And you've got 107 first serves by Roger, 108 by Andy (a total of 215 points). These do not match your total points as derived by winners/aces and errors/doubles, but they do match the ATP numbers.

I tend to treat corresponding numbers as good as confirmed, so it looks like the accurate number of total points played is the one that the ATP reports and that you got through your service percentages (215, with 107 served by Fed, 108 by Roddick). It looks like you’re tracking the total number of first serves accurately.

But that total exceeds your numbers for the individual strokes by 5 points; and the strokes you report leave the two players with different totals of points won than the ATP has.

In the Hamburg match, all your numbers added up consistently. So I don’t know what to suggest, except maybe you’ll want to proof your winners/errors or play around with different ways of laying them out on your sheet.

I don’t know how Moose does it. I lay out the strokes in rows.

Set 1, Federer – FH, BH, FHV / A SW, etc.

Those are winners (and the slash marks the end of a game). In a separate place, I write out rows for errors. I don’t like putting winners and errors together, because then I can’t just write down “FH” for forehand, I have to mark down whether it’s a winner or error (and forced or unforced); I tried it once and it got too sloppy to read. Impossible to count that way.

I’ve thought of making rows or columns for each stroke and just putting a mark next to it when a winner occurs on that stroke, but then I don’t see where the stroke occurred and can’t go back to it if I want to proof just one game, for example. I’d have to go through the whole set again.

If you PM me, we can get into everything in detail.

A final note: you’ve got Federer making the same number of successful first serves as the ATP (64), though your number for Roddick (70) is higher than theirs (68 ).

We don’t know how accurate the ATP is. Between you, me, and Moose, you’re the first to take stats in categories already covered by the ATP (other than aces, doubles, and break points), so we’re just getting to test the ATP numbers now. My next few matches will have stats that can be compared against theirs, so we’ll see how accurate they are.

I’ve finished Sampras-Rafter at Wimbledon, and my total number of points (won and played) lines up with what the ATP has. But I’ve seen at least two boxscores for other matches in which the numbers differ radically from the ATP.

 

[krosero]

Murray, I just noticed that the internal discrepancy in your stats is 5 points. There were 5 double-faults in the match, 4 by Roger. If I count those double-faults twice, then there's no more discrepancy: you've got 215 points played, with 109 won by Roger -- same as the ATP.

From here it looks as if you subtracted the doubles from your totals for the errors twice. What do you think?

 

[Murray_Maniac]

Sheesh, sorry for the mistakes. I remeber counting every point's result. I really hoped that you guys wouldn't catch on. Im 100 % sure that I marked down every winner, so its just a couple of errors that I must've missed. Other than that, my stats are very accurate.

 

[krosero]

Sheesh, sorry for the mistakes. I remeber counting every point's result. I really hoped that you guys wouldn't catch on. Im 100 % sure that I marked down every winner, so its just a couple of errors that I must've missed. Other than that, my stats are very accurate.

Just to be clear, your counting does look accurate to me. I think it's pretty well confirmed that there were 215 pts. in the match, with Federer winning 109 -- not because I regard the ATP as inherently accurate, but because when two sources come to the same numbers independently, it's very likely that the numbers are accurate. And if the totals are accurate, then it lends weight to the specific breakdown you produced for the players' winners and errors.

So your numbers look good.

PM me, I'd like to get into the details with you a little more.

 

[Murray_Maniac]

^^^ Krosero, I dont think theres pm on this forum. & Im not allowed to email.

 

[Moose Malloy]

^Fed's high winner counts vs Roddick seem a little less impressive to me since we've started tracking winners, off hand I can't recall another top 10 player that seems to give up as many winners(even in close matches) as Roddick has done more than a few times(Nadal just torched him Queens, Gasquet last year hit a barrage of winners - even though it was 5 sets, Kohlschreiber, etc. I'm sure there were probably more...I wonder how many Blake hit vs him in those 2 wins he had over him in '06)

I recall that first set at the '06 Masters Cup seeming like one of the best sets that Roddick ever played, yet Fed still had more winners than Roddick did in that set according to your stats,which is sort of strange for someone with that big a serve.

 

[Murray_Maniac]

^Fed's high winner counts vs Roddick seem a little less impressive to me since we've started tracking winner, off hand I can't recall another top 10 player that seems to give as many winners(even in close matches) as Roddick does.

I guess that tends to happens when a guy with a 140 mph serve decides to play that far back.

Federer hit 42 total non-service winners in the match while Roddick only hit 16.

Roddick's strong 1st serve kept him in the match.

 

[krosero]

^^^ Krosero, I dont think theres pm on this forum. & Im not allowed to email.

I enabled my profile to receive emails; I've gotten some emails from users here.

 

[Murray_Maniac]

I enabled my profile to receive emails; I've gotten some emails from users here.

Im only 15 & my parents dont trust me with emails. So, Im not allowed to send/recieve emails w/ ppl.

But, Im guessing that we could talk personal in odds & ends (if the mods allow just chatting).

 

[krosero]

Im only 15 & my parents dont trust me with emails. So, Im not allow/recieve emails w/ ppl.

But, Im guessing that we could talk personal in odds & ends (if the mods allow just chatting).

Well at my doddering old age of 37, I prefer getting properly introduced by name with people, even if it's just by email, rather than communication by boards which I find tedious. Maybe you're more acclimated to the internet age.

If you can create a profile at YouTube (it's free), email me there at my account (krosero).

 

[Murray_Maniac]

Well at my doddering old age of 37, I prefer getting properly introduced by name with people, even if it's just by email, rather than communication by boards which I find tedious. Maybe you're more acclimated to the internet age.

If you can create a profile at YouTube (it's free), email me there at my account (krosero).

Ughh, you dont seem to get it yet. My parent WONT allow me to email & most likely wont allow me to join youtube because Ive convinced them to get me tennis channel, join these forums, and register to the tennis channel.co to watch streaming. Their not happy, & in order to register on ttc.com, I promised that after I joined tennischannel.com, I wouldn't have to register to anything else.

Sorry about it, Ill still keep you guys posted up though.

 

[krosero]

Ughh, you dont seem to get it yet. My parent WONT allow me to email & most likely wont allow me to join youtube because Ive convinced them to get me tennis channel, join these forums, and register to the tennis channel.co to watch streaming. Their not happy, & in order to register on ttc.com, I promised that after I joined tennischannel.com, I wouldn't have to register to anything else.

Sorry about it, Ill still keep you guys posted up though. G2g to bed now or else Im grounded.

Then you should keep your promise, didn't know it was like that.