Strategy vs. aggressive slicer?

[time_fly]

I'm playing a match against a guy who's been on a big winning streak lately, beating a lot of the better singles players in our leagues. He's a smaller guy, doesn't look very athletic but he gives it 100%. He hits aggressive slice off both wings, and can flatten out his forehand on high balls. His strokes are towards the compact side and I don't think he ever hits with topspin. His main strength is his ability to take the ball early and chip it accurately towards the sidelines, using his opponents' pace against them.

My game: lefty, semi-western FH, 2HBH. I tend to be a heavy top-spinner. I play dubs regularly and my net game is okay but my ground strokes are better.

My main thought is that his inability to hit topspin must give him some weaknesses. What's the best approach for this type of player?

 

[Deleted member 23235]

moon ball deep to his bh.

slicers in general like their contact height to be between waist and knee...
and want the ball to be descending (ie. so it's perpendicular to the face)... hitting slice on the rise is tough
and if its head high, even harder...

even if they can handle slicing moonballs, the reply will tend to bounce higher (ie. won't be a low skidding slice), and you can run around and hit your fh

slicers like fed, post-op-delpo, feli, johnson, etc... any ball they need to hit on the rise, will typically hit topspin, and if your buddy can't hit topspin, he will send you back floaters.

the harder and closer to the net you hit, the easier it is for the slicer to take a shorter backswing (increases their consistency), and slice it low back to you.
alternatively you could just lob to his bh, and approach or something, but being a little guy, i bet he's fast enough to run around his bh

 

[Dragy]

+1 for deep topspinning him, then stepping in, approaching, finishing. If you manage to constantly push him towards the back fence with high-bouncers, he isn't hurting you from there. He may lob from there, but that's a separate skill, and you as doubles player may have some decent OH, don't you?

 

[IowaGuy]

My main thought is that his inability to hit topspin must give him some weaknesses. What's the best approach for this type of player?

+1 on the deep topspin to his BH.

Another option:
How is his net game? I like bringing slicers to the net with dropshots (assuming they don't like the net). I find it easy to hit a dropper against a slice. Just be patient in the rally and the first slice he hits around the service line, try a dropper. Then pass/lob. If it works, rinse & repeat often

 

[Dan R]

As stated, keep it out of his strike zone which for him is low. Anything to keep the ball high - rollers, topspin, lobs. Also, I think a good backhand slice is harder to deal with than a forehand slice. I think it's harder to really get effective slice on a forehand so shade toward the forehand side.

 

[Grey Wolf 87]

If his game is mostly chipping and finesse, try approaching the net and put some pressure on him. Cause him to hit shots that are outside of his comfort zone where he can't just dink crafty shots to the sides.

 

[time_fly]

+1 for deep topspinning him, then stepping in, approaching, finishing. If you manage to constantly push him towards the back fence with high-bouncers, he isn't hurting you from there. He may lob from there, but that's a separate skill, and you as doubles player may have some decent OH, don't you?

I think the challenge is to get those high, heavy topspin balls going in the first place. The one thing that makes this guy tough is that he keeps everything low. Even on defense, he will block the ball short and low rather than the typical safe high and deep recovery shot. So I'm going to be playing a lot of this match down around my knees. Even with topspin it's hard to get the ball to kick up too high when starting from such a low ball. I may have to work on the buggy whip a bit this week and see how much I can get.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

I think the challenge is to get those high, heavy topspin balls going in the first place. The one thing that makes this guy tough is that he keeps everything low. Even on defense, he will block the ball short and low rather than the typical safe high and deep recovery shot. So I'm going to be playing a lot of this match down around my knees. Even with topspin it's hard to get the ball to kick up too high when starting from such a low ball. I may have to work on the buggy whip a bit this week and see how much I can get.

lob to his bh... it's tempting to overhit when slicing a no-pace ball (at the very least i have to take a longer backswing)... it's waaaay easier to chip/slice a ball with pace

 

[Dragy]

I think the challenge is to get those high, heavy topspin balls going in the first place. The one thing that makes this guy tough is that he keeps everything low. Even on defense, he will block the ball short and low rather than the typical safe high and deep recovery shot. So I'm going to be playing a lot of this match down around my knees. Even with topspin it's hard to get the ball to kick up too high when starting from such a low ball. I may have to work on the buggy whip a bit this week and see how much I can get.

Well, deep kicking topspin is perfect, but as others suggest any high and deep will work - “moonballing” and “lobbing” is not about buggy whip, actually.
Now that will not possibly give you straight errors from him, but weaker balls - it’s hard to keep the slice really low from shoulder height and above, and it’s hard to hit high-quality slice from well behind the baseline. Wait for shorter balls to keep up pressure and step forward, and finish at net. If playing a low ball, try to put it deep with mild pace and topspin, feel free to hit up rather than through with closed r-face, and recover to good baseline position. If a low ball is around service line you can look for putaway angles, but only if it’s really confident.
Your main goal is not give him neither penetrating balls at comfortable height nor short balls. If you succeed, next step is capitalizing on his not-so-good shots. Tactics obviously depends on your ability to execute. And whether he is patient or is likely to go for something out of his arsenal since getting those deep high balls from you.

 

[GeoffHYL]

If his slice is as good as described, hitting heavy topspin is probably not going to be that effective unless it is also very deep, keeping him well behind the baseline. Since you are a lefty, I would look for opportunities to hit my FH very sharply CC to his BH side to pull him off court, which should produce a relatively weak reply that you can jump on.
In general I would flatten out my shots some to try to keep the ball deep.

 

[Dan Huben]

I don’t have a lot of success against slicers, but my record is improving by slice vs slice and approaching the net and dropping. Most responses as I have seen include blasting back at you for a volley or lobbing. Either way it’s moving.

My coach has been working with me to commit to TS off of a slice and it’s like you said playing at knees but I’ve been partially successful with committing to a shot and executing.

 

[IowaGuy]

I'm playing a match against a guy who's been on a big winning streak lately, beating a lot of the better singles players in our leagues. He's a smaller guy, doesn't look very athletic but he gives it 100%. He hits aggressive slice off both wings, and can flatten out his forehand on high balls. His strokes are towards the compact side and I don't think he ever hits with topspin. His main strength is his ability to take the ball early and chip it accurately towards the sidelines, using his opponents' pace against them.

My game: lefty, semi-western FH, 2HBH. I tend to be a heavy top-spinner. I play dubs regularly and my net game is okay but my ground strokes are better.

My main thought is that his inability to hit topspin must give him some weaknesses. What's the best approach for this type of player?

Another thought is to S&V (if you have a decent net game?)

His slice chop/block serve return is likely to be his weakest shot of the rally.

If he's floating the slice/block return, would make for some easy volleys. Especially on the ad side, a lefty slice serve would give you a huge court to hit an easy volley into...

If you have a good lefty kicker, then kick serve to deuce side FH and volley off his FH slice return into the open court.

Food for thought. Guys with only slice returns are my favorite opponents for S&V...

 

[movdqa]

Can you hit a topspin shot with a Continental grip? You could also try to peel the outside and over part of the ball.

One other thing - if you want to hit flat balls, vary the pace a lot. Don't let him get grooved on just chipping back the pace.

I tend to slice back to these players but I can do continental on the forehand and backhand sides.

 

[Notirouswithag]

apply pressure by countering with defensive high margin shots, dont try to go flat broke.

Grind it out and either move him around until you can find the opening or try to counter with slice and make him come in then drive by him or at him to get him out of position.

also is he 1 or 2hbh? i know in my case even though I'm a 1 hander and people try to hit me high balls ill either step back and hit them up higher with way more topspin or I'll throw in a high slice floater and point and shoot to the singles side line

 

[zaph]

Take it early and hit it hard, he won't like it. I know that sounds mad because attacking a well hit slice shot isn't easy. However if you can do it you will cause your opponent no end of problems, they are relying on you being uncomfortable attacking those balls and getting weak returns.

I have an advantage here, my father was brought up on grass courts and has a very good attacking slice. He taught me to play, so I am use to playing against aggressive slice. It can be attacked, it is just a case of playing against it often enough to get use to how the ball behaves so you can take it early.

 

[travlerajm]

Take it early and hit it hard, he won't like it. I know that sounds mad because attacking a well hit slice shot isn't easy. However if you can do it you will cause your opponent no end of problems, they are relying on you being uncomfortable attacking those balls and getting weak returns.

I have an advantage here, my father was brought up on grass courts and has a very good attacking slice. He taught me to play, so I am use to playing against aggressive slice. It can be attacked, it is just a case of playing against it often enough to get use to how the ball behaves so you can take it early.

This. I have days where my topspin forehand goes awol, and the slice is all I got on that wing. A high bouncing topspin is usually fairly easy to deal with, because my forehand volley optimal strike zone is around shoulder level where I can drive the ball downward. Heavy Nadal-type spin over my head is more of a challenge, but I rarely encounter that. For a hard low ball, my slice forehand is tougher to control, so I resort to moonballs on these.

 

[dnguyen]

Use serve and volley if you are that good.

 

[time_fly]

I’m not that good at S&V in singles. I don’t feel like I have that explosive first step after my serve to get in there and cut off the angles.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I’m not that good at S&V in singles. I don’t feel like I have that explosive first step after my serve to get in there and cut off the angles.

Some of the time, you don't need any first step, explosive or otherwise: your opponent will simply make an error on the return. Of the ones that do go in, you don't need an explosive first step on all of them; probably not even the majority. It would certainly help, no argument there. But it's not a requirement to succeed.

The best return isn't necessarily always the sharply angled one: also effective are the ones straight at you, topspin dippers, low slices that make you reach and/or get low, etc.

 

[3loudboys]

Another thought is to S&V (if you have a decent net game?)

His slice chop/block serve return is likely to be his weakest shot of the rally.

If he's floating the slice/block return, would make for some easy volleys. Especially on the ad side, a lefty slice serve would give you a huge court to hit an easy volley into...

If you have a good lefty kicker, then kick serve to deuce side FH and volley off his FH slice return into the open court.

Food for thought. Guys with only slice returns are my favorite opponents for S&V...

Ditto on S&V - slice returns should provide a competent net player some easy put always.


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[golden chicken]

Vary your topspin if you can. A slice shot takes advantage of the incoming spin on the ball, so for him to be consistent, he has to receive a consistent ball. If you hit some shots flatter and some shots with a lot of spin, that could throw his strokes off and maybe get you a sitter that you can attack.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Ditto on S&V - slice returns should provide a competent net player some easy put always.

Just beware of the players with uber control who can slice at your feet or near the alley a high % of the time.

 

[3loudboys]

Just beware of the players with uber control who can slice at your feet or near the alley a high % of the time.

Agreed there are some skilled players out there. OP lefty slice serve out wide would be a good option to open up the court.

Also do feel that you should be aggressive on groundstrokes in rally situations against a slicer and attack the net. NYTA suggested moon balling the bh and thats a good play - fh as well if the opponents fh is a slice. The slicers I’ve played do like to dominate at net themselves and taking that away from them whilst pressuring their stock groundies takes them out of their comfort zone. Make them play a game they don’t like.

Tough opponents the happy choppy chippers.


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[time_fly]

All of this and I didn’t end up playing the guy. It was the first match he’s missed all season. At least I won.

 

[Raul_SJ]

Take it early and hit it hard, he won't like it. I know that sounds mad because attacking a well hit slice shot isn't easy. However if you can do it you will cause your opponent no end of problems, they are relying on you being uncomfortable attacking those balls and getting weak returns.

I have an advantage here, my father was brought up on grass courts and has a very good attacking slice. He taught me to play, so I am use to playing against aggressive slice. It can be attacked, it is just a case of playing against it often enough to get use to how the ball behaves so you can take it early.

But other posts say this slicer guy feeds off the pace. And that it is easier to slice hard hit balls. This is giving him what he wants...

Agree attacking slice is not easy
Any vids out there that show how to attack it? Or even how to slice it back?

Some of the 3.5 senior guys have wicked slices that skid and never come up.

 

[Morch Us]

Maybe he saw this thread and chickened out.

All of this and I didn’t end up playing the guy. It was the first match he’s missed all season. At least I won.

 

[IowaGuy]

Agree attacking slice is not easy
Any vids out there that show how to attack it? Or even how to slice it back?

These guys have a lot of different ideas on how to deal with slices to BH and FH.

 

[movdqa]

Djokovic, Murray, Nadal and Federer usually slice back heavily sliced, low shots. If these guys can't do more on heavy slice to their backhand, why do ordinary mortals think that they can as well?

 

[FiReFTW]

Djokovic, Murray, Nadal and Federer usually slice back heavily sliced, low shots. If these guys can't do more on heavy slice to their backhand, why do ordinary mortals think that they can as well?

Nadal and Federer spin it back very often, so your wrong, but it depends on the circumstance.

 

[movdqa]

Nadal and Federer spin it back very often, so your wrong, but it depends on the circumstance.

I'm not wrong. Unless you care to quantify "often".

 

[FiReFTW]

I'm not wrong. Unless you care to quantify "often".

Fine, go watch just about every Federer and Nadal match. Nadal spins and eats those Fed slices for breakfast.

 

[movdqa]

Fine, go watch just about every Federer and Nadal match. Nadal spins and eats those Fed slices for breakfast.

This is what I wrote. I'm not talking about floaters and that's not what this thread is about.

"slice back heavily sliced, low shots"

 

[FiReFTW]

This is what I wrote. I'm not talking about floaters and that's not what this thread is about.

"slice back heavily sliced, low shots"

On FH side they do spin those back, on BH they do quite often slice back, not always but very often.

 

[movdqa]

On FH side they do spin those back, on BH they do quite often slice back, not always but very often.

There's a certain level of physics and biomechanics involved. If the ball is three inches off the ground, it's pretty hard to hit it hard back with topspin with a semi-western or western grip.

Often is a vague term.