tennis court/instructor politics

[goober]

I am having a lesson at a court with my instructor. The courts are city owned and are public. You have to pay court fees and make reservations.

Another instructor sees us having a lesson. He comes over huffing and puffing. He tells my instructor that he is not allowed to give lessons on these courts. He seems to be pretty angry. He spouts off something about having to pay his dues doing these cheapie beginner clinics before he was allowed to use these courts to teach. I ask him is he paying for court time and he says no. Well I tell him I paid for the use of the court and I can play however I want to play. I point out 2 courts down there is what looks like a boyfriend teaching his girlfriend how to play. How's that any different? I ask. His reply is well she's not paying for it. So I tell him how do you know- did you ask her? He blows up and makes a huge scene. Of course it is the weekend so no administrator is around except some teenager at the front desk who doesn't know anything. The other instructor leaves threatening to call the police if ever sees my instructor teaching here again.

Is this guy just full of hot air or does he have a legit claim?

 

[Tim Tennis]

Whatever

I have seen public courts where only the resident pro is allowed to give lessons. I think a lot of times it is part of their compensation package but I am not sure. I could certainly understand from their point of view if they run the pro shop and keep the courts open, they need to give lessons since their base pay is not much. I also see your side of it. Damn, let's flip a coin.

 

[safin_protege]

Just check with an administrator; I don't see a problem with it.

 

[Dan007]

I get lessons in public courts.

 

[Roforot]

Bad boys bad boys what you gonna do?

 

[Bungalo Bill]

I am having a lesson at a court with my instructor. The courts are city owned and are public. You have to pay court fees and make reservations.

Another instructor sees us having a lesson. He comes over huffing and puffing. He tells my instructor that he is not allowed to give lessons on these courts. He seems to be pretty angry. He spouts off something about having to pay his dues doing these cheapie beginner clinics before he was allowed to use these courts to teach. I ask him is he paying for court time and he says no. Well I tell him I paid for the use of the court and I can play however I want to play. I point out 2 courts down there is what looks like a boyfriend teaching his girlfriend how to play. How's that any different? I ask. His reply is well she's not paying for it. So I tell him how do you know- did you ask her? He blows up and makes a huge scene. Of course it is the weekend so no administrator is around except some teenager at the front desk who doesn't know anything. The other instructor leaves threatening to call the police if ever sees my instructor teaching here again.

Is this guy just full of hot air or does he have a legit claim?

There is a fine line in what we call "PUBLIC" courts to enjoy freely and "PUBLIC" courts in which we use to earn a profit. There is a huge social matter to consider especially since most pros have to pay fees or a percentage of their profits for court use. If "PUBLIC" courts were "FREE" to "ALL" pros, many courts would be used to give lessons as pros would be seeking to teach on public courts to increase their profits.

There are two ettiquette issues that need to be addressed on both sides.

1. The instructor that thinks you are "treading on his turf" is wrong in the way he acted to rectify the problem. He is not wrong in telling you that the courts he is teaching at is where he makes his living. Your instructor should know this ettiquette rule between coaches. However, if it was a one time thing or if your instructor is not going to try to drum up business from it (which is hard not to do when people see lessons going on), then you are okay.

2. There are public courts where the instructor has signed up with the city to offer discounted lessons for the use of the courts. The city or local govering body WILL back up the instructor that is designated to teach there. If you went ahead and had the lesson, paid yoru instructor, and the other instructor does indeed have a legitimate claim to the courts, you are violating his business practice.

The best thing to do is to contact the governing authority of those courts and try to find out what the rules are and who can teach lessons there for pay. Dont be surprised that you and your instructor are in the wrong.

 

[goober]

There is a fine line in what we call "PUBLIC" courts to enjoy freely and "PUBLIC" courts in which we use to earn a profit. There is a huge social matter to consider especially since most pros have to pay fees or a percentage of their profits for court use. If "PUBLIC" courts were "FREE" to "ALL" pros, many courts would be used to give lessons as pros would be seeking to teach on public courts to increase their profits.

There are two ettiquette issues that need to be addressed on both sides.

1. The instructor that thinks you are "treading on his turf" is wrong in the way he acted to rectify the problem. He is not wrong in telling you that the courts he is teaching at is where he makes his living. Your instructor should know this ettiquette rule between coaches. However, if it was a one time thing or if your instructor is not going to try to drum up business from it (which is hard not to do when people see lessons going on), then you are okay.

2. There are public courts where the instructor has signed up with the city to offer discounted lessons for the use of the courts. The city or local govering body WILL back up the instructor that is designated to teach there. If you went ahead and had the lesson, paid yoru instructor, and the other instructor does indeed have a legitimate claim to the courts, you are violating his business practice.

The best thing to do is to contact the governing authority of those courts and try to find out what the rules are and who can teach lessons there for pay. Dont be surprised that you and your instructor are in the wrong.

I am sure you are right and when push comes to shove they will back their own teaching pros. The only thing that gets me is that I play at these courts all the time and I know who are the teaching pros. I would say the majority of times I play there, "instructional activities" are going on by nonresident teaching pros. There are almost always at least one court with a guy feeding another person tennis balls from a basket and giving out advice. How many of these are "paid" lessons I don't know but they go on all the time- which is why I didn't think twice about booking a session there. I have never seen anybody else questioned in 3 years that I have been playing there about giving unauthorized lessons.

I hate to say this but I think why my instructor was yelled at was probably because he was the first African American person to walk into that club in the last 5 years.

 

[troytennisbum]

I am having a lesson at a court with my instructor. The courts are city owned and are public. You have to pay court fees and make reservations.

Another instructor sees us having a lesson. He comes over huffing and puffing. He tells my instructor that he is not allowed to give lessons on these courts. He seems to be pretty angry. He spouts off something about having to pay his dues doing these cheapie beginner clinics before he was allowed to use these courts to teach. I ask him is he paying for court time and he says no. Well I tell him I paid for the use of the court and I can play however I want to play. I point out 2 courts down there is what looks like a boyfriend teaching his girlfriend how to play. How's that any different? I ask. His reply is well she's not paying for it. So I tell him how do you know- did you ask her? He blows up and makes a huge scene. Of course it is the weekend so no administrator is around except some teenager at the front desk who doesn't know anything. The other instructor leaves threatening to call the police if ever sees my instructor teaching here again.

Is this guy just full of hot air or does he have a legit claim?

]

It depends. Here in southern CA, the following are the rules in the public PARK courts where I play at. NO ONE, is allowed to give private lessons on them technicaly. Not even the teaching pro who works for the park. He is ONLY allowed to give GROUP Classes open to the public for the park. Now when you use these courts, and someone is waiting you must either play 1 set before giving the court up or you must only use it for 30 minutes if you don't want to play a set.

Now realisticaly, people do use these courts to give lessons. In the eyes of most reasonable/decent people, this is ok as long as 1)no one is waiting or you have paid for the use of the courts (via reserved them) or you are only going to be there for a 30 minute session and 2) your lesson is NOT interferring with the play of any nearby courts (i.e., your not raining tennis balls on someone else's game, as many courts have a 6 ball maximum limit to prevent this, or some courts are nicely designed so that they are "isolated" from each other via a fence). Also, you can't be shouting out instructions while someone is playing a set right next to you if it bothers their play.

But I'll tell you this. If you indeed were using that court on your paid time and if you were NOT physicaly interferring with anyone else's game in that facility (by noise or by to many errant balls) and you were NOT damaging the facilities, then I would of seriously told that "teaching pro" to go shove it up his @##. You ought to be able to do anything you want to do on those courts as long as 1) your not interferring with anyone else's game 2)your not using the courts on time that is not yours by the rules and 3) your not damaging the facilities.

IMO of course.

EOM

 

[matchpoint]

Paid instruction is not allowed on public courts unless your instructor is the resident instructor authorized by the city, county or school.

 

[Rickson]

I am having a lesson at a court with my instructor. The courts are city owned and are public. You have to pay court fees and make reservations.

Another instructor sees us having a lesson. He comes over huffing and puffing. He tells my instructor that he is not allowed to give lessons on these courts. He seems to be pretty angry. He spouts off something about having to pay his dues doing these cheapie beginner clinics before he was allowed to use these courts to teach. I ask him is he paying for court time and he says no. Well I tell him I paid for the use of the court and I can play however I want to play. I point out 2 courts down there is what looks like a boyfriend teaching his girlfriend how to play. How's that any different? I ask. His reply is well she's not paying for it. So I tell him how do you know- did you ask her? He blows up and makes a huge scene. Of course it is the weekend so no administrator is around except some teenager at the front desk who doesn't know anything. The other instructor leaves threatening to call the police if ever sees my instructor teaching here again.

Is this guy just full of hot air or does he have a legit claim?

The guy has a very legitimate claim. The instructor is paid by the city owned club and only that club's instructors are allowed to teach there. If you want to get a lesson on the sneak tip, make it look like you 2 are either playing a match or hitting around, but don't make the lesson look obvious.

 

[badmice2]

those city instructors usually flip out thinking that your coach (or other independent coaches) might have a chance in snatching up students that are his potential business; is a catch-22 situation.

 

[goober]

The guy has a very legitimate claim. The instructor is paid by the city owned club and only that club's instructors are allowed to teach there. If you want to get a lesson on the sneak tip, make it look like you 2 are either playing a match or hitting around, but don't make the lesson look obvious.

Well I tracked down a former instructor at the club and he gave me the low down. These guys are not paid by the city and they are not paid by the club to provide private lessons. They get free use of the courts in exchange for doing these group clinics which apparently don't pay very well and nobody wants to do them. This court time is given as a reward for those who do these clinics so they can run their own private lessons. I still have to find out what the actual policy on lessons is because there are lessons that are going on all the time at the club by all kinds of people who I know that are not club instructors. It really is not that big of a deal because there are plenty of private courts both me an my instructor have access to that we can use. I just didn't like the way this instructor was yelling and threatening to call the police.

 

[Marius_Hancu]

You really need to see and respect the local etiquette, as there are no general rules.

If the courts are maintained by a body which has an agreement with USTA that only certain certified coaches can play there, you must respect that.

However, if that's not specified, you can do what you want, but within limits. Say, a pro should not monopolize a free/public court for more than a lesson at a time (1-2 hours). Then, he/she should free it, if there are other players waiting.

Sometime, the door person has an under the table agreement (for under the table moneys, of course) with a pro which isn't necessarily a certified pro, who takes a court for a whole day. Not correct, but it's not worthwhile your agravation to try to get that court. Except if you really want to get to the body/board administering those courts and complain.

 

[Bungalo Bill]

Well I tracked down a former instructor at the club and he gave me the low down. These guys are not paid by the city and they are not paid by the club to provide private lessons. They get free use of the courts in exchange for doing these group clinics which apparently don't pay very well and nobody wants to do them. This court time is given as a reward for those who do these clinics so they can run their own private lessons. I still have to find out what the actual policy on lessons is because there are lessons that are going on all the time at the club by all kinds of people who I know that are not club instructors. It really is not that big of a deal because there are plenty of private courts both me an my instructor have access to that we can use. I just didn't like the way this instructor was yelling and threatening to call the police.

It could be very well that the tennis pro there is fed up with a lack of "enforcement" of the policy there. In other words, the pros that are true to the policy are getting ripped off by a lacksadasical enforcement which they have to now do.

Maybe you caught this guy at the point where he is fed up with people giving private lessons when they are not "pulling" their weight in the other area (providing inexpensive group lessons).

In any case, I am not excusing the behavior he demonstrated but I must give the guy the benefit of the doubt. It is up to you, but I would apoligize to him for not knowing the rules and brining your coach to give you a paid lesson.

That is a lot like me coming into your merchandise store and began offering all of your customers coming into the store the same product. How would you feel?

The other thing is your coach is a nut to not think that the public courts were a "free-for-all" for lessons. He ultimately should have known the business and be the one apoligizing to the other coach. That is simply common respect for the other coach irregardless if the other coach was in the wrong with the way he handled it.

 

[dickbarney]

If the rules are not posted or there isn't a reference to where you can access the rules then you should be free to use your paid time as you wish. If there were rules then the "teenager at the front desk" should at least have a copy available to the public.

Having said that in my business travels I have noticed some rather strange rules for "Public" courts in Southern California.

 

[Bungalo Bill]

If the rules are not posted or there isn't a reference to where you can access the rules then you should be free to use your paid time as you wish. If there were rules then the "teenager at the front desk" should at least have a copy available to the public.

Having said that in my business travels I have noticed some rather strange rules for "Public" courts in Southern California.

Wish this were the case, but it doesn't work that way and irregardless on whether the rule was posted or the teenager didnt know, the pro did come over and inform them. The other pro should have known this could very well be true.

It also doesnt matter what you "THINK" are strange. The rules are the rules and the local pro for that court is in the right no matter what you think.

Also, this is not unique to Southern California. So you might want to do your research again.

 

[Mahboob Khan]

It is a geneal ethical/etiquette rule that before giving lessons, a coach should take permission from the Controlling Authority because even in "public" courts a resident coach may have some sort of arrangement. In some cases an arrangement could be made between coaches whereby certain percentage from a lesson is given to the resident coach. The problem starts when the guest coach starts hijacking players from the other coach and/or students from the other coach gets impressed by the new coach and like to join his program. In any case there are conflict of interest that must be avoided like "I am not treading on your turf, and you are not treading on my turf".

Several years ago, a rival coach started to coach on a court next to my coaching court. In a month's time his students realized that my instructional system was better than his so they one by one started to join my program. The rival coach felt the heat and he abandoned my place. You can very well see that conficts are bound to occur when two or three coaches coach at one place.

 

[dickbarney]

Bungalo - I did my research before posting - I consulted a couple of lawyers that I play with regularly.

 

[Bungalo Bill]

Bungalo - I did my research before posting - I consulted a couple of lawyers that I play with regularly.

Yeah, okay, do it again.

 

[ta11geese3]

Where I lived (Arcadia, California) the sign says no professional instruction is allowed without the city's permission or something... but on most courts no one cares =| So at the courts I usually play on (they're less than a block away from me) there's this guy who's there almost everyday and takes up loong blocks of time giving lessons. Granted, I used to take lessons from him... (he sucked though).

I know at the park where we have our rusty miller's tennis academy or whatever the rules are enforced to a certain extent. No ball baskets or unauthorized prof. teaching, that's for sure. Although I believe the resident pro's are allowed to give private lessons, cause that's where my brother gets his. To a certain extent though meaning I don't think people really do the 1 set/30 min rally rule.

 

[Bungalo Bill]

Where I lived (Arcadia, California) the sign says no professional instruction is allowed without the city's permission or something...

Public courts here also say that. Some dont, some do, some dont in Kansas, some do in Texas, some dont in Georgia, some do in New York, some dont in Washington, some do in TIMBUKTU...